Topic: SHOULD CITIZENS WHO DON'T PAY TAXES BE ALLOWED TO VOTE? (Read 467 times)

Taxes is anybody who can pay for it but if you do not have a proper income then its an ezcuse not to pay the taxes here in our cointry there are people that dont have job and not paying any taxes on the Government but they can vote on the election why? Because they are citizens on our country and theres a law about it. But there are no rules that if you pay tax you cant vote in election.

In a democratic country or in general (I must say), Whether you evade your tax or not, you are still eligible to vote as for the reason that you are a citizen of the country. Though, there are limits which literally shouldn't be a hindrance but still it's sad reality. If a citizen is poor (to the point, that a person being disregarded as a citizen) who seems nor can't afford to register itself, then automatically your right to vote is gone.

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Should the government implement it? Well, It just a waste of time, since it will undergo a series of discussion, when they can easily uphold the law to them for tax evasion. So bottom line, Payer or non-payer don't matter.

I feel this is easier to say but you need to understand that first the country need to deliver to their citizens. Even Govt knows that they never deliver everything and hus many things are yet to eradicated.

better make country's citizens happy and fullfill basic needs and ask for such dictatorship policies.

It's obvious that it should be a yes. They are the citizens of their country to they have to the right to vote and choose who they want to lead the country. And those people who don't pay taxes won't do it permanently because once the tax authorities find out, they will face legal charges.

Sure, but without paying property or income taxes you'll not get a driver's license, any government services, no garbage collection, no schools for your children, no bank accounts (as you'll have no id), no health care, no job and no money.  If you operate a cash business on the side without any id or registration, you'll be arrested and thrown in jail, and IRS will tell you how much you owe them.

If you don't like paying taxes in your country, leave and live somewhere else.

Adam vs. The Man was licensed by Russia Today's US affiliate in April 2011. The move was criticized by Accuracy in Media's columnist Cliff Kincaid who referenced his own column entry from 2008 discussing RT's coverage of the Russia–Georgian War in which he condemned RT for "preferring to use foreigners, especially Americans, to make Russian propaganda points"[53][54] before stating that "the American Marine Veteran, Adam Kokesh, seems to fit the bill, having emerged as an anti-war activist who ran as a Republican for Congress and supported Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) for president".[55] Slate writer David Weigel quoted Kokesh describing RT's model, saying: "Truth is the best propaganda. I love it! I really love the concept of that. It's funny: People say we're hiding shit as a network. No, no—we put the fact that this is propaganda right out front. We're putting out the truth that no one else wants to say. I mean, if you want to put it in the worst possible abstract, it's the Russian government, which is a competing protection racket against the other governments of the world, going against the United States and calling them on their bullshit."[56]

After only a few months on RT, Adam vs. The Man was canceled in August by that network to avoid potential legal problems stemming from an FEC complaint filed against RT by the group America’s Survival, Inc. over the matter of Kokesh endorsing Ron Paul for President (thereby allegedly running afoul of the Foreign Agents Registration Act).

Seems like the author of that website is an absolute crackpot nutjob. It's amazing that you keep linking to sites like that. You really should check into the sources, considering they're all Krelim base.

Voting is a Choke Chain on Your Liberty







Read more at https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-30/voting-choke-chain-your-liberty.

No government will ever give you that choice. I made that choice all by myself. Don't wait!

I really wish that the government would have given me that option of either paying my taxes or not voting because I will without a moment of though pick the latter because regardless of who comes to power, they are all the same people.

Here in the context of our country, everyone has the right to vote, as long as you reach the right age. There is no qualifications like in whether a person is already paying tax. I think this is just okay as we all are taking turns in our society. There comes a time that we only just study and don't pay tax while other older person were paying. But it will also come a time that we will find a job and that's our turn to pay tax. I think it is just a matter of turn and giving back to your society.

I don't pay tax and I'm very happy about it.
I've burned my social security card and I'm very happy about it.
I don't vote and I'm very happy about it.
I'm not on facebook and I'm very happy about it.
Etc...

If everyone was like me, there would be no war.

I somewhat agree with your idea, but I would modify it slightly.
In your system retirees wouldn´t be able to vote, because they don´t pay
any taxes. However, it is obviously counterproductive to exclude the
most experienced and wise members of society from elections. Besides,
most retirees by definition have paid taxes for several decades and therefore
have made huge contributions to the community.

Therefore I´d argue that it is fine to exclude people, who not pay taxes and people,
who are non-residents from voting, but you should still allow retirees to vote.

The real question is (and someone should start a thread):

SHOULD NON-CITIZENS WHO PAY TAXES BE ALLOWED TO VOTE?

yes , they should allowed because they represent the population if the citizens has trust on govt they will pay tax its upto govt to create trust and credibility .

I don't think they should be allowed to vote. Tax cheats shouldn't have any place in our society. I believe that tax cheating is one of the biggest crimes to humanity. We need to create a system that instantly tells us who does't pay their taxes. What do you think guys? Am i too harsh?

Message to the Voting Cattle / Larken Rose

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RmeaBxZ03M


Statism: The Most Dangerous Religion (feat. Larken Rose)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uVV2Dcqt0

Voting doesn't have anything to do with taxes. In the States, and a few other countries, taxes are collected only by ignorance and deception of the people.

If the people knew the simple ways to simply bypass taxes, many of them would do it. In fact, ALL OF THEM WOULD DO IT. Why would they ALL do it? Because those that wanted to bypass taxes would (if they knew how), and those who didn't want to, wouldn't be paying taxes at all. Rather, they would be donating, simply because of their stance on their money transfer to government. This would totally eliminate taxes.

In the States, voting doesn't have anything to do with taxes. Why not? Because voting is in the Constitution and Amendments, and even the common law. But income taxes are NOT in the constitution. In fact, income taxes are against the Constitution.

Then how does the IRS get away with it? They get away with it by making complex court cases that the people don't understand, and can't win easily.

On top of it, the attorney's first obligation is to the court. Obligation to themselves is above obligation to their client (actually, the client is 4th).

On top of this, attorneys are officers of the court, so there is a conflict of interest. Attorneys get around this conflict of interest by law. Law says that when a person becomes the client of an attorney, he is considered a minor in the courts, not able to speak... except if the court lets him momentarily. This means that the decision is turned completely over to the courts by agreement, whenever a person signs on the line to become the client of an attorney.

How do you get around it? Stand as a man or woman, in common law. Corpus Juris Secuncum is a law encyclopedia:The tribunal is the accuser, the accused and the jury.

003 - Karl Lentz - Establish your common law court

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQf9NFh3wN8

Voting and taxes don't have anything to do with each other.

the reason why we have income tax system is to prevent citizen from boycotting taxes, so as a result such taxes is deducted from salaries before salaries are paid, in my opinion, i think every employed citizens indirectly pays his/her taxes, citizens who dont pay taxes are unemployed. as such should be allowed to excersize their franchise.

es, non-taxpayers should be allowed to vote. Voting is for everyone and if we start limiting the voting process because someone did not pay taxes that year, then we are really devaluing the voting process in America. It is your right to vote or not so lets not start putting restrictions on that.

I do understand what you're talking about. I figured that there were probably some exceptions. I imagined you're probably paying taxes somewhere that you don't realize or can't avoid. It seems like you've got most of your based covered though. Thank you for the detailed response. I've read quite a bit about income tax before. It all seems so ridiculous that typically you have to pay the government to make money, then you have to pay the government virtually every time you spend money. It's nice to see an example of a person who is being quite successful and avoiding paying taxes in the US.

But I don't pay sales tax in my state.

For example. I don't use marijuana. I don't pay for other people using marijuana. Now, if I somebody down the street is selling his car, and I buy it, and he makes a handsome profit off me, I have purchased a car. What he does with the money is his business. If he uses some of the money to buy marijuana, did I buy the marijuana? Same with sales tax. Just because a store gives me an itemized list of what they have done with the money I use to pay for my purchases, doesn't mean that I pay sales tax. If they pay sales tax, they are the ones who pay it. Not me.

Property tax? I rent. I pay the landlord. If he uses some of his money to pay property tax, he is the one paying the tax, not me. But even if I owned the property, it would be MY property. Someone in government who tries to steal my property from me will get sued, just like he would if he were attempting to rob me, directly.

When I fill out an application form for a job, and I get hired, the employer needs me to fill out an IRS Form W-4. I fill out my name, and address and social same as always, for identification purposes. I fill out every other line on the W-4 with n-a (non-assumpsit)... except line 7 where it asks for my exempt status. There I write "EXEMPT." I sign the form "non-assumpsit" and my signature. My employer doesn't withhold. The IRS doesn't require tax payments. Of course, I give my employer a letter of explanation in such a way that he understands that you have to have an agreement with the IRS to pay income taxes, and that I don't have this agreement, because of the way I filled out the W-4.

Start by going here - https://www.youtube.com/user/765736/videos - and finding every audio/video that has "IRS" in the title, to see what is going on.

Further, if court is involved, take a look at this audio/video:
003 - Karl Lentz - Establish your common law court

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=karl+lenz+your+own+court+003
Then, look at the other audio/videos around that one.

It will take a little time to get it into your head what is going on. But you need to start somewhere. Listen to at least the first 5 minutes of the audio/video, "Learn how to reclaim your sovereignty and fight government tyranny through jury nullification" at https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-08-03-learn-how-reclaim-sovereignty-fight-government-tyranny-jury-nullification.html, to understand some of the bottom line for the above A/V.

That is not an easy question to answer. If you just allow anyone of legal age to vote, then it's clear that people would vote for politicians that would pander to them. Then you'll have people on welfare voting for politicians who promise free this and that.

If you limit it to those who pay taxes though then you end up in some sort of medieval setting where possibly many people don't have any say on how they would be governed. (Except that in the medieval times people do pay without representation.)

If I'd put one more restriction on voting, it would be political education. Make several courses that people can take for free and they have to pass all those to be allowed to vote. Every few years or so they have to take another refresher course and exam (like how driver's licenses are renewed).

No! I don't think they have the right to vote. The fact that they are not paying their taxes, they are abolishing their obligations to their country, then why should they be given the right to vote? Afterall, they don't care about their country at all, so they shouldn't participate in political affairs as well. If they given up on their obligations to contribute to the upliftment of the country through their financial obligations, then they should give up all their rights.

I see, so you are American. This is a very interesting topic. I have watched a few documentaries about taxes in the US an the IRS. You literally don't pay any taxes? Don't you have sales tax in your state? What about land tax? I'm sure there's some that you can't avoid. If that's the case, then you are being taxes. Or do you just think of income tax? Have you ever been taken to court or been hassled by the IRS? The whole court situation is quite interesting.

I like the idea of people just paying for what they want, but I still have some concerns though.

Well, to answer your first and second questions, I essentially don't vote, because nobody is forcing me to pay taxes.

A country without taxes? All people are taxed, some of them just by getting out of bed in the morning. But not all people are taxed monetarily.

Monetary taxation does one major thing. It enriches those who receive the tax money, in an unfair and unrighteous way. Rather than paying taxes, buy what you want. If you want to use the roads, buy the rights to use them. If you want military protection, buy the military protection. If you want a Mars program, donate to it. Do you want schooling for your kids?, pay for it; why should anybody be forced to pay for schooling for the children of somebody else? There is no reason to be forced to pay something you don't want or don't get. Taxation is theft.

Further, in America, if the IRS attacks you for not paying taxes, it doesn't, really. Rather, it is some IRS agent doing some paperwork. Ask the IRS agent to show you the agreement you have with IRS laws. If you agreed to pay, then pay, as your agreement states. If he won't or can't show you the agreement, sue him for the injury of the hassle he is putting you through.

If the IRS takes you to court, they don't, really. The indictment always reads THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs you. In the States, you have the right to face your accuser. Since THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is your accuser according to the indictment paperwork, require THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA to take the oath, get on the stand, and testify to the harm or damage you have done to it, with evidence of the harm or damage, and proof that it was you that did the harm or damage. THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is paperwork. Paperwork can't get on the stand and testify to anything. Case dismissed for lack of your accuser testifying in court.

Suppose at the beginning of your trial the judge asks the prosecuting attorney what the trial is all about. The prosecuting attorney starts telling the judge what the accusations are. If you don't object to the prosecuting attorney testifying without having first-hand knowledge, and without being placed under oath and on the stand, and without clarifying if he is a witness or an attorney (he can't be both), and if he is a witness, why he wasn't called by the prosecutor on the indictment (THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA), you just let "them" run all over you.

But you made your first mistake by hiring an attorney. An attorney is an officer of the court. When you hired him, you agreed to whatever the court wants to do with you. It looks like a case of conflict of interest, but it is not, because by voluntarily hiring the attorney, you voluntarily turned the matter over to the total discretion of the court system.

The point is, since none of us are required to pay taxes in America, but since most of us pay them voluntarily, voting or not voting is not a tax question.

So, you always vote to try to get people out of office, so they will stop forcing you to pay taxes? Have you had an success with this yet? You must do a lot of voting, since I'm pretty sure there is not one country with absolutely zero taxes. How do you imagine this society with no taxes? Do you have some economy and political system in mind?

I would gladly not vote if I didn't have to pay taxes. But if they forced me to pay taxes, I would vote, and vote them out of office. Then, without having to pay taxes any longer, I wouldn't vote any more... at least until the cycle started again.

how they benefit from it? can you elaborate this and provide sources?

historically voting rights were always interlinked with taxes. this was especially the case when there was no banking cartel.

universal voting rights came also with universal enslavement by a banking cartel.

Guys, remember that there are many types of taxes, if you buy a coffee you are paying taxes. Everyone pays.

If government will do this,then Government will ignore these people without their fault:

1.All student,who are doing education, (they are future of any country)
2.Dependent person of that country,
3.Disable persons,who are not able to work,

You will usually find that in most countries you have to be earning a minimum amount before you start paying taxes. You can't be expected to pay taxes if you're not earning anything or very little. People who are barely making enough to survive obviously won't be taxed. This bring up an interesting point though about who votes for who. The lower classes will surely vote for someone who promises them no taxes and many other benefits if they're poor, whereas the upper classes will vote for the people who promise them lower taxes and tax breaks whilst stiffing the poor out of benefits because they don't want to pay for them. Whoever wins will depend on whether there's more poor or rich people in the country, but as I said before neither parties will probably do the things they promised and perhaps even the opposite whilst the real people who benefit are the corporations and super rich who financed their campaigns in the first place as it's them who get the tax breaks and gov contracts so they can reap the rewards of donating to their campaign in the first place. Legalized bribery at the end of the day, but that's what democracy has become. Corporatocracy.

I don't think paying taxes is the only way one can contribute to society, that's a narrow minded premise in my opinion.  I'm more concerned about those who are misinformed and uneducated having a vote.

The push to allow non-citizens to vote in some municipalities is a scary thought, not only are they not educated on American history, but they are not guaranteed to have America's best interest in mind when going to the polls.

This tax payment issue is one sided. In a situation where am just selling what we call sachet water to put food on my table, how do I pay tax from such? In my believe I think tax payment does not have anything to do with voting. If the right kind of leaders are voted in and the economy becomes better, I can change from my street sales and do something good and meaningful to enable me pay tax the way it should be. This situation is like asking a homeless and hungry man to pay tax before he can vote. It is not ok.

It would be very hard to control. I don't see any real good reason to implement a policy like that. If you're a business owner, for example, you may only pay tax at the end of the year. If the election is in the middle of the year, you can't very well say that the business owner is not a taxpayer. There are already mechanisms in place to catch and punish people that are avoiding taxes. If you break those laws you'll be fine and/or put in jail. In that case, the question would become, should inmates be allowed to vote? I think that they should be able to vote too because decisions the president will make will affect them in their lives in prison too.

What if you're disabled and can't work? What if you dedicate your entire life to working for charities and getting no pay at all? What if you live in a country that doesn't have taxes? Those people shouldn't have a vote in who leads them? What about someone who earns money but is a complete moron? What about someone who earns money but would vote for Hitler or someone like him if he could? Should it be that the only things that qualifies someone to vote is age and in your case paying taxes?

Well, I would like to start of by saying that all of the citizens of a particular nation is paying taxes eventhough they are not paying it technically. Meaning, eventhough they do not pay taxes directly to the tax payers' lounge, still they are contributing to the country. They still but goods and products of the country, they pay bills, and they work, in which in all of those, taxes are there. Therefore, everyone of us are paying taxes and contributing to the economic welfare of the country. If all of us do pay taxes, then all of us are entitled to vote. Because after all, the extent of power of the leaders within a particular country is not limited only for those who pay taxes but to all its citizens.

I guess it depends on their reasoning for not paying taxes. If they're not paying taxes because they don't have the income to be able to qualify to even pay the lowest level of taxes (pretty much like having a 0 percent income tax level) Then I think that these people should be allowed to vote, or people that don't have income, or something along those lines. You're still a citizen even if you don't pay taxes.

Though if you AVOID paying taxes and end up paying nothing on your income in an attempt to defraud services that need your tax dollars to function -- then you shouldn't be able to vote for that year. That's my view on it, and I know that's a tough issue.

Everyone has the right to vote, that's why it's called universal suffrage. Restrictions based on wealth were common centuries ago, first implemented by American Constitution of 1787 and French Constitution of 1791. We evolved from that. It is scary that people in the crypto universe do not understand basic aspects of democracy and decentralization.

Voting is permitted to all who are citizens and are of age. Taxes are required of nobody.

Any body or person who does not pay tax is not expected or permitted to vote.

If people decide not to work to avoid paying taxes (This number is almost certainly lower than you assume it is) they should be given incentives to work, with minimum wages that are actually worthwhile as opposed to state benefits. In my country (UK) people get free healthcare, dental care, prescriptions, council tax exemption, housing benefit and job seekers allowance and more if they have children. When the minimum wage is as low as it is you can see why there are incentives for certain people not to find a job, especially when they have low levels of education and can't get a decent wage. The blame for this either lies with the government, businesses or a combination of both depending on which side of the political spectrum you are on.

A person's right to vote for who runs their country should not be defined by whether they pay taxes or not. What you are saying is that people who do not pay taxes are not as important as people who do and this is not the case. If what you are suggesting was allowed, the government would be able to exploit the lower rungs of society as these people would not have a say in anything, potentially leading to the erosion of their civil liberty and encourage modern day slavery.

It might sound far fetched in this day and age, but when you take away peoples right to vote you are leading society towards a slippery slope and stranger things have happened.

I think everyone has a right to vote whether he/she doesnt pay taxes.Theres a law that gives exemption of taxes to those people who had no enough earnings.So I dont think its appropriate not to allow them to vote unless when a certain person who got lots of profit but still doesnt pay taxes its already punishable by law.So the government will be in control in those kind of matter.

I believe it should be more in the lines of "Should citizens who don't vote be allowed to not pay their taxes". Makes perfect sense, if the government doesn't deserve my vote even, it is definitely undeserving of my moneyZ.  Liberty lives 

I know will refer to the constitution and human rights on this matter but If a citizen does not contribute to society, how can that citizen have an opinion on it? Ultimately if you do not pay tax, you have no need to affect the political process, and your impact will be negative to others because you will be uninformed on how to vote to improve things.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?