Should every newbie have a limit in the bounty of social media?

_BlackStar

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1228

Playgram - The Telegram Casino

Quote from: tranthidung on October 05, 2021, 10:56:51 AM

If newbies simply read and answer questions if they can help other members on this amazing forum, nobody think of them with positive thoughts.

They suddenly join Meta or Beginners & Help with their Guides, it would raise suspicious questions on what are their real purposes when joining the forum and whether they are real newbies.

Real newbies don't make guides or join Meta board that is the most active board about merit distribution.

As a user who is very good at processing forum statistics then I'm sure you have a fair amount of experience judging newbies in this forum. Their post history will tell you what their main purpose is on this forum. I hope I can learn something from you.

This is my first year on the forum and just a few days from now this profile will be celebrating its first birthday on this forum. I just hope that my first 1 year on the forum then full member rank can be achieved. I need another 51 merit to reach that rank but I think it will be possible if I continue to contribute with good posts in this forum.

tranthidung

legendary

Activity: 2310

Merit: 4085

Farewell o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: _BlackStar on October 05, 2021, 10:50:55 AM

I guess I have to have a thick skin to cover opinions like this from the outside so that my interest never fades in this forum. I see some high ranking users seem quite apathetic about newbies trying to get their rankings through posts worth something and immediately their imaginations spin and want to put high pressure on us with as few problems as they ever find on this forum.

If newbies simply read and answer questions if they can help other members on this amazing forum, nobody think of them with positive thoughts.

They suddenly join Meta or Beginners & Help with their Guides, it would raise suspicious questions on what are their real purposes when joining the forum and whether they are real newbies.

Real newbies don't make guides or join Meta board that is the most active board about merit distribution.

Lastly, most of Guides from newbies are unnecessary and they repeat answers from available topics. Badly, their answers are worse than available topics/ answers. They don't do enough read and search (or just skip all ?).

_BlackStar

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1228

Playgram - The Telegram Casino

Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on October 03, 2021, 12:01:21 AM

I don't think this will somehow limit the number of new alternative accounts if managers change the rules.
Participation in the bounty is no longer a goal for many "new" accounts. Accounts appear that are grown to participate in subscription companies. Some newbies follow the pattern, earning merits from Ratimov, from OgNasty on merits topics. And then hunting for merits, they quickly get the rank of "member", after which they start spamming a lot in threads.
The further fate of these accounts will be either participation in signature companies or the sale of these same accounts.
This is a well-built business that those who do it are unlikely to give up.

I guess I have to have a thick skin to cover opinions like this from the outside so that my interest never fades in this forum. I see some high ranking users seem quite apathetic about newbies trying to get their rankings through posts worth something and immediately their imaginations spin and want to put high pressure on us with as few problems as they ever find on this forum. I don't want everyone to mix up gold and mud, so maybe they no longer want to see anything valuable from within and ignore most of the effort. I hope I never become one of the users you mean.

One thing that is certain is the apathy of the users in responding to the problems I raised in the topic is that there is no final solution. So I don't think having to let more people show their apathy towards the topic idea I created and now locking the thread was a decision. Thanks for interacting with me here, you are all great people.

Lucius

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 5637

Blackjack.fun-Free Raffle-Join&Win $50🎲

Quote from: Rikafip on October 04, 2021, 03:09:04 PM

The way things are developing and bar lowering down constantly, soon even that won't be a requirement. Managers have to fill those spots, I can't imagine any of them saying to potential client "sorry, I have to pass because I simply can't fill your signature campaign with quality posters as all that is left are shitposters".

If we agree on that, then it’s clear where the problem lies, and no one should wonder why we have so many shitposters in signature/bounty campaigns. However, when I remember what it was like 4-5 years ago, everything bad that is happening is still very limited.

Quote from: Lucius on October 04, 2021, 09:00:29 AM

A member who is active almost every day and fails in 4 months to get at least 5 times as many merits is a shitposter.

Quote from: Rikafip on October 04, 2021, 03:09:04 PM

You can be a decent poster in the gambling board, and still fail to meet that amount of merit.

It’s a known fact, some boards just don’t attract enough attention from merit source members, and to be honest in the Gambling board a good poster gets lost in a bunch of spam. Yet this is a forum that is primarily focused on Bitcoin, and it is logical that gambling or altcoins and some other boards will never be those boards where the average user can expect his post to be rewarded with merits (at least not with some significant number).

Rikafip

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 5937

Quote from: Lucius on October 04, 2021, 09:00:29 AM

I am of the personal opinion that Newbie and Jr. Member members should not participate in bounty and signature campaigns, just as I am of the opinion that campaign managers should not use the "5 merits in last 120 days" rule as a yardstick to determine whether or not someone is a quality poster or not.

The way things are developing and bar lowering down constantly, soon even that won't be a requirement. Managers have to fill those spots, I can't imagine any of them saying to potential client "sorry, I have to pass because I simply can't fill your signature campaign with quality posters as all that is left are shitposters".

Quote from: Lucius on October 04, 2021, 09:00:29 AM

A member who is active almost every day and fails in 4 months to get at least 5 times as many merits is a shitposter.

You can be a decent poster in the gambling board, and still fail to meet that amount of merit.

UmerIdrees

hero member

Activity: 2436

Merit: 877

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

Thousands of bounty posts, no 'real' content and no merit. They are going to spend years here and still be a newbie.

They are earning tokens and some tokens may be worth collecting though many are useless. That's why you see no decline in bounty hunting.

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

If that works for theymos & the rest of the staff why should we care?

Traffic, engagement & much more

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

I think it's a waste of resources and time but that's me. With that I am really surprised that nobody has come up with a better way to manage bounties then pages and pages of posts like that. I would have thought by now some web developer would have come up with a nice online setup for people to submit stuff in instead of the way it's done now.
-Dave

Some managers gives an excel sheet to send the weekly tasks but still people post both in the thread and sheets. The bitcointalk is not a bounty forum hence they can't develop an in house bounty report collection forum. The projects only care for promotion and they have the managers who are wiling to do the manual work.

skarais

legendary

Activity: 2464

Merit: 2094

Quote from: Zedpastin on October 04, 2021, 07:38:43 AM

I think we should stop all bounties that pay in tokens and only allow campaigns which are paying in Bitcoin because the Bitcoin paying ones are hiring better quality members because it is worth something.

No, probably not and you should already know why the bounty to date even though there are so many spammers expecting something of value in the bounty. I'm not sure it will be removed but it's still possible to be tightened with all kinds of rules be it from the manager or by the forum. I don't think that this suggestion will be fully considered by admin.

Lucius

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 5637

Blackjack.fun-Free Raffle-Join&Win $50🎲

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

Thousands of bounty posts, no 'real' content and no merit. They are going to spend years here and still be a newbie.
If that works for theymos & the rest of the staff why should we care?
I think it's a waste of resources and time but that's me.

We should all be concerned about the way some things happen on the forum under the pretext of human freedoms to do almost anything they want. Perhaps easiest to say is that we don't care what happens to bounty campaigns, we ignore Altcoins boards and the problem is solved - but with this way of thinking we support not only those who create hundreds of scam projects, but we also allow them to recruit thousands of beginners who promote the same scam for very little or no earnings.

I am of the personal opinion that Newbie and Jr. Member members should not participate in bounty and signature campaigns, just as I am of the opinion that campaign managers should not use the "5 merits in last 120 days" rule as a yardstick to determine whether or not someone is a quality poster or not. A member who is active almost every day and fails in 4 months to get at least 5 times as many merits is a shitposter.

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: tranthidung on October 03, 2021, 07:44:23 PM

Years ago, there was suggestion that the forum can charge fee in Bitcoin (not altcoins) from projects that want to run their bounties on the forum.

I suggested that at one point. Security deposits for Bounty threads.

I am probably not the first nor last one to do it though. But the general feeling I got is that no one really thinks that it's a good idea. It would create a wrong assumption that the forum is behind those bounty campaigns and that they are safe to join.

I don't think that anyone should be restricted from joining bounties. If they want to waste their time doing that, it's their loss. Just because someone is a newbie here, doesn't mean that they don't have social media accounts that are perfect in the eyes of campaigns who need them.

It would help to fight spam if bounty reports were no longer allowed to be reported in a new post on the forum. Instead, bounty campaigns would have to allow users to submit such reports off site. Those who don't comply get locked or deleted. But my experience tells me that no one is interested in making any changes to the bounty sub.

Zedpastin

sr. member

Activity: 363

Merit: 323

Infographics save lives

Quote from: skarais on October 04, 2021, 06:16:06 AM

You may be able to advise a reputable manager like Hhampuz, Murat, CryptopreneurBrainboss, julerz12, irfan_pak10, Royse777, and some others managers to limit newbie and junior members from joining the bounty they manage. But your suggestions may be useless and ignored by some novice managers or other low ranking managers representing the project team. Maybe it would be nice if all managers implemented it and made those suggestions as local rules for themselves and the bounties they manage so that it becomes a good habit in the future.

It will be ignored by most other bounty managers that you have not named because they do not care for the forum they only care about advertising their scam projects. I think most of the managers you have named already have a good quality campaign and remove anyone that is not posting good posts they do not need to change their habits. I think we should stop all bounties that pay in tokens and only allow campaigns which are paying in Bitcoin because the Bitcoin paying ones are hiring better quality members because it is worth something. The tokens are worth nothing and only newbies are interested in posting for something that is worth nothing but might be worth something in the future. I think if theymos changed the rules to only Bitcoin paying signature campaigns and bounties we would see less spam everywhere and he could probably save money on hiring staff because there would be no need for them when the spam is removed by that change. If it is not made a rule then bounties will continue to spam the entire forum.

skarais

legendary

Activity: 2464

Merit: 2094

Quote from: bakasabo on October 04, 2021, 04:33:06 AM

I would suggest bounty managers to make a limit of accepted newbies and jr.members in campaigns. Even if the campaign uses stake system, accepting first 100 newbies and jr.members would be enough.

You may be able to advise a reputable manager like Hhampuz, Murat, CryptopreneurBrainboss, julerz12, irfan_pak10, Royse777, and some others managers to limit newbie and junior members from joining the bounty they manage. But your suggestions may be useless and ignored by some novice managers or other low ranking managers representing the project team. Maybe it would be nice if all managers implemented it and made those suggestions as local rules for themselves and the bounties they manage so that it becomes a good habit in the future.

bakasabo

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1215

I would suggest bounty managers to make a limit of accepted newbies and jr.members in campaigns. Even if the campaign uses stake system, accepting first 100 newbies and jr.members would be enough. Not a secret that most of the newbies that join twitter and facebook campaign are part of farms. They follow each other and their project posts and tweets get less response and interest from society, as they share everything round each other. For projects such promotion is a waste of budget. However, these newbies create a hype or noise on social media. That is why not accepting them will be wrong, but making a limit of accepted might help.

borovichok

hero member

Activity: 1148

Merit: 518

Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on October 04, 2021, 01:57:33 AM

We can just guess what kind of stereotyped posts they write on social networks and are talking nonsense, thinking that they are doing useful "work"

Social media bounty hunters don't do much at all, especially those who use Twitter to promote a project; all they do is retweet, copy other people's comments and post it as an original post, and repeat the process every week until the campaign ends; those who care about merits are those without large social media platforms who want to wear sig and avatar and promote projects here on the forum, and end up shuffling around.

lovesmayfamilis

legendary

Activity: 2072

Merit: 4265

✿♥‿♥✿

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on October 03, 2021, 07:19:17 PM

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 03, 2021, 01:52:19 PM

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

There are 100s (1000s?) of users here that look like this person:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alexandrbelres-2156763
Or this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rachchi-2297077

Ah yes, members of the 1000+ post/0 merit club. Gotta love 'em. At least what they post is mostly just bounty reports and not shitposts (though some of them do that as well).

This is exactly the point I made above. These people are largely not actually bothering anyone (except those who want to create rules solely for the sake of having rules).

There are alternatives to having a bounty section, however none of them amount to requiring that you must be an experienced member in order to participate in bounty campaigns.

It has been repeatedly noticed that these "law-abiding" bounty hunters either do not have alternative accounts or are very careful and do not make mistakes, sooner or later leave their comfort zone. They need at least one merit because some managers don't accept Newbie.
And this is where the bounty hunter's tragedy begins. Having a very large activity on the forum, with which other users have become legends, these accounts begin to write nonsense, copy from other sites, which ultimately leads to a ban.
Therefore, we see in the Meta people who are very far from the rules of the forum and the life of the forum itself, who do not understand what their fault is and why they are either banned or received a negative tag. And their whole tragedy is that they never until the need arose, did not go beyond the "bounty" section
We can just guess what kind of stereotyped posts they write on social networks and are talking nonsense, thinking that they are doing useful "work"

aysg76

legendary

Activity: 1974

Merit: 2124

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 03, 2021, 01:52:19 PM

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

There are 100s (1000s?) of users here that look like this person:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alexandrbelres-2156763
Or this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rachchi-2297077

Ah yes, members of the 1000+ post/0 merit club. Gotta love 'em. At least what they post is mostly just bounty reports and not shitposts (though some of them do that as well).

They have more than 1000 posts and still not a single merit and the reason you have mentioned that they only post the bounty reports in that section only.They are not concerned to the forum and happy serving and fulfilling their base purpose to earn some fake tokens from these bounty campaign.

But there are some other who move one step ahead of them and they are junior members who managed to earn atleast one merit and account is registered in 2018-2019 and they are still engaging themselves in bounty campaign.The one merit earned maybe from an another alt account and then they join some signature campaign and shitposting again on the forum.Some of them sell that account saying they can earn with this account by participating in campaign which is bad from forum perspective.You will find lot of them.Not only newbie but some high rank members have not also been able to earn any single merit after the introduction of merit system and that's surprising.But it's true.

tranthidung

legendary

Activity: 2310

Merit: 4085

Farewell o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on October 03, 2021, 07:19:17 PM

There are alternatives to having a bounty section, however none of them amount to requiring that you must be an experienced member in order to participate in bounty campaigns.

Years ago, there was suggestion that the forum can charge fee in Bitcoin (not altcoins) from projects that want to run their bounties on the forum. It is kinda solution to force scammers have to spend initial cost for their projects and perhaps reduce their spam intensity on the forum.

Additionally, there was suggestion to require bounties to pay in Bitcoin, not pay in altcoins or tokens.

It seems theymos does not want to implement harsh restriction like that.

PrimeNumber7

copper member

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1901

Amazon Prime Member #7

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 03, 2021, 01:52:19 PM

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

There are 100s (1000s?) of users here that look like this person:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alexandrbelres-2156763
Or this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rachchi-2297077

Ah yes, members of the 1000+ post/0 merit club. Gotta love 'em. At least what they post is mostly just bounty reports and not shitposts (though some of them do that as well).

This is exactly the point I made above. These people are largely not actually bothering anyone (except those who want to create rules solely for the sake of having rules).

There are alternatives to having a bounty section, however none of them amount to requiring that you must be an experienced member in order to participate in bounty campaigns.

borovichok

hero member

Activity: 1148

Merit: 518

Not every newbie bounty hunter is interested in merit or ranking up; most of them don't care about the merits system or even how it works; all they care about is their name being on the spreadsheet, and then they go out and promote the company they're working with on social media; in some cases, the majority of them are article writers. That, I believe, is more profitable than those who write on the forum while wearing sig and avarta. The only reason you see a newbie with 2k posts and no merits is because of this.

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

Meh, it's the way it is here.
There are 100s (1000s?) of users here that look like this person:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alexandrbelres-2156763
Or this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rachchi-2297077

Thousands of bounty posts, no 'real' content and no merit. They are going to spend years here and still be a newbie.
If that works for theymos & the rest of the staff why should we care?

_BlackStar

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1228

Playgram - The Telegram Casino

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 03, 2021, 01:52:19 PM

It's not that the members who've posted don't really care, it's that there's not a hell of a lot any of us can do about the problem--and it's been discussed previously in many threads over a period of years. Unless bounty managers become more selective in who they admit into those bounties, or if Theymos puts the smackdown on shitposting (which he won't), the only thing the community can do is complain about it--and that's a pointless exercise in futility. That's why you're seeing so much apathy here.

I had to change this thread to lock after I read the disguised command from your post. Although in reality I didn't find much support for my idea but I am satisfied after knowing that when a solution to make something change for the better doesn't exist then users can become apathetic about it. Thank you the pharmacist.

The Sceptical Chymist

legendary

Activity: 3528

Merit: 7005

Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

There are 100s (1000s?) of users here that look like this person:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alexandrbelres-2156763
Or this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rachchi-2297077

Ah yes, members of the 1000+ post/0 merit club. Gotta love 'em. At least what they post is mostly just bounty reports and not shitposts (though some of them do that as well).

Quote from: _BlackStar on October 03, 2021, 01:46:11 PM

Who cares?, this is the gist of all the responses I can conclude.

It's not that the members who've posted don't really care, it's that there's not a hell of a lot any of us can do about the problem--and it's been discussed previously in many threads over a period of years. Unless bounty managers become more selective in who they admit into those bounties, or if Theymos puts the smackdown on shitposting (which he won't), the only thing the community can do is complain about it--and that's a pointless exercise in futility. That's why you're seeing so much apathy here.

_BlackStar

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1228

Playgram - The Telegram Casino

Who cares?, this is the gist of all the responses I can conclude.

I know all of you have different points of view in analyzing the problem when you want to provide a solution. The idea of this thread suddenly appeared in my mind and head as a form of my concern about the many cases of violation of rules by bounty farming accounts.

Pay attention to this thread: Known Alts of any-one - A User Generated List Mk III (2021 Q4), do you who work as cheater hunters feel bored with your activities and what is the time you devote proportional to the amount of merit and reputation you get from other users for your work?

I'm sure you've never felt compelled to do the noble task of rooting out bounty cheaters, but I very much doubt it's worth the time and effort you put into finding hundreds to thousands of newbie accounts to tag for cheating while they could generate thousands more at any time. This cycle keeps repeating and will never end, so whatever it is your decision then I hope it will be the best.

DaveF

legendary

Activity: 3500

Merit: 6320

Crypto Swap Exchange

Meh, it's the way it is here.
There are 100s (1000s?) of users here that look like this person:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alexandrbelres-2156763
Or this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rachchi-2297077

Thousands of bounty posts, no 'real' content and no merit. They are going to spend years here and still be a newbie.
If that works for theymos & the rest of the staff why should we care?
I think it's a waste of resources and time but that's me. With that I am really surprised that nobody has come up with a better way to manage bounties then pages and pages of posts like that. I would have thought by now some web developer would have come up with a nice online setup for people to submit stuff in instead of the way it's done now.
-Dave

The Cryptovator

legendary

Activity: 2408

Merit: 2226

Signature space for rent

What if the manager is a newbie? You can see in the bounty section most managers are a newbie or Jr. Member. As usual, you can't expect better service from them. Since there are no limits for managing campaigns from the forum, it's quite impossible to limit participation, either by forum or managers. And lately, most campaigns have been running by projects author. They don't care about service, they just need to spread the word about their projects. That's why it's not possible to prevent newbies from joining bounty campaigns. For your information, many threads are already open here about this issue. But who cares?

Zedpastin

sr. member

Activity: 363

Merit: 323

Infographics save lives

I say we should limit the bounty board to full members+ the only reason people post on that board is to collect their earnings. If we continue to allow any one to post there they will continue to create multiple accounts and spam the board. If we limit it then that would reduce the amount of spam because some of the bounty topics have requirements that you post outside of the altcoin board. I guess we could see these bounties move off forum and still require people to post on this forum to collect their payment but I think that is still the better option.

Quote from: Rikafip on October 03, 2021, 04:13:11 AM

The way social media bounty campaign is usually done here is as effective as thread bumping, meaning its a waste of money and time.

I was crazy enough to check the work of an average bounty hunter several times while looking for alts, and to use that famous line from Blade Runner's "Tears in Rain" scene, I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. What do you think, what kind of reach can social media account have when it's usually followed by other bounty hunters, because who else will follow social media account that just spews crap from dozens of altcoin campaigns, simultaneously? Don't get me started on article campaign, where illiterate bounty hunters are text spinning wp content..

It has 0 impact but they get paid in shitcoin tokens which are not worth anything. It is just creating spam for no reason and then they require you to post on this forum to collect your payment which creates more spam here. If we limited it to higher ranks then we would probably see the quality of bounties go up and the spam go down.

Rikafip

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 5937

Quote from: YOSHIE on October 03, 2021, 03:42:35 AM

Most of the newbies who are in Bounty, they work for token pay programs like: Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Telegram etc., it's 80% profitable for companies in spreading their ads, rather than sig participants, it can't only be seen in this forum, outside the forum also visible through social media, except: sig count campaign with Bitcoin.

The way social media bounty campaign is usually done here is as effective as thread bumping, meaning its a waste of money and time.

I was crazy enough to check the work of an average bounty hunter several times while looking for alts, and to use that famous line from Blade Runner's "Tears in Rain" scene, I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. What do you think, what kind of reach can social media account have when it's usually followed by other bounty hunters, because who else will follow social media account that just spews crap from dozens of altcoin campaigns, simultaneously? Don't get me started on article campaign, where illiterate bounty hunters are text spinning wp content..

Little Mouse

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 2100

Marketing Campaign Manager |Telegram ID- @LT_Mouse

Quote from: Rikafip on October 02, 2021, 01:18:23 PM

They probably promise some numbers to their clients and without alt accounts it probably wouldn't be possible to reach needed numbers.

I'm not sure if any campaign manager promises such amount or not but it's sure that there's some requirement put by the project owner. They look for more participants to reach more people (though I doubt this method is so much effective). I was asked for having a certain number of participants by the project owner which doesn’t suit my rules, I had to deny the offer since I can't guarantee any certain number.

I don't think anyone should be concerned on this issue. If bounty managers think newbie won't be a helping hand and waste of the allocation (token/coin), they are free to exclude newbie from their campaign. I think I have seen some bounty managers did this.

YOSHIE

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1775

Most of the newbies who are in Bounty, they work for token pay programs like: Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Telegram etc., it's 80% profitable for companies in spreading their ads, rather than sig participants, it can't only be seen in this forum, outside the forum also visible through social media, except: sig count campaign with Bitcoin.

Newbie's, biggest asset for the Bounty program to be successful is by spreading advertisements through social media to attract investors.

If, the bounty is limited by only being advertised by high-ranking accounts with the current merit system, each company and manager only gets 20-30 accounts that can participate, this will result in the bounty promotion/advertisement going down.

For that the rules have been set by the bounty manager, obey the rules the bounty is complete, let the beginners do their job, it's the right of everyone who comes to this forum, freedom, the forum doesn't prohibit them from doing that.

Rikafip

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 5937

Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on October 02, 2021, 06:25:52 PM

Admins putting more restrictions on newbie accounts? I doubt if that will happen. At least not anytime soon.

I think that you misunderstood the first post, OP didn't suggest admins putting extra restrictions, but bounty managers agreeing not to allow newbie accounts joining campaigns.

Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on October 03, 2021, 12:01:21 AM

I don't think this will somehow limit the number of new alternative accounts if managers change the rules.
Participation in the bounty is no longer a goal for many "new" accounts. Accounts appear that are grown to participate in subscription companies. Some newbies follow the pattern, earning merits from Ratimov, from OgNasty on merits topics. And then hunting for merits, they quickly get the rank of "member", after which they start spamming a lot in threads.

Its true that those more capable/experienced ones will easily find a way to get couple of merits and circumvent that restrictions either via one of the giveaway threads, or making some bullshit story and writing what other members want to hear, therefore showering them with merit, like in this case, when someone allegedly went from first time hearing about LN and implementing it to having 4 different persons paying via LN, and all that in a matter of couple of hours. Easy 63 merits from that bs story. Rinse and repeat.

It would still stop bunch of clueless ones that never left bounty section and have no idea how easy is to get the merit. But as i said earlier it won't happen as its not in the bounty managers interest, no matter what they say.

aysg76

legendary

Activity: 1974

Merit: 2124

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 01, 2021, 04:41:17 PM

Are Newbies even allowed to participate in bounties? I thought Jr. Member was the lowest rank that could participate.

Yes they are allowed to join the bounty campaign but the minimum rank to join any signature campaign on the forum is junior member.The above links are of the bounty campaign where you could find various bounty allocation like Twitter, Facebook, reddit, YouTube, article or translation in which most of the newbie account participate and only rule is No Alt account and cheating is allowed not restricting any newbie from joining but still they join with alt farms to have more rewards.But if you see signature campaign then rules are you need to be alteast junior member to post on the forum to get rewards.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 01, 2021, 04:41:17 PM

Except that it doesn't take much to rank up from Newbie.

It hardly takes 1 merit only and 30 activity to rank up to junior member and there are many helpful threads available for them to gain 1 merit.But as @lovesmayfamilis pointed out many of them still spam post the threads and without any dedication keep on with the same type of irrelevant posting and joining bounty campaign.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 01, 2021, 04:41:17 PM

But who knows how many alt accounts there are in any of those bounties? Probably tons of them, but it's been a problem for a long time and nobody seems inclined to do much about it.

Most of the time you would find the same bitcoin address for many accounts in the bounty threads and it's clear sign of alt account and most of the bounty related threads face same situation so i simply ignore them and keep posting on the forum trying to make good contributions.

lovesmayfamilis

legendary

Activity: 2072

Merit: 4265

✿♥‿♥✿

I don't think this will somehow limit the number of new alternative accounts if managers change the rules.
Participation in the bounty is no longer a goal for many "new" accounts. Accounts appear that are grown to participate in subscription companies. Some newbies follow the pattern, earning merits from Ratimov, from OgNasty on merits topics. And then hunting for merits, they quickly get the rank of "member", after which they start spamming a lot in threads.
The further fate of these accounts will be either participation in signature companies or the sale of these same accounts.
This is a well-built business that those who do it are unlikely to give up.

PrimeNumber7

copper member

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1901

Amazon Prime Member #7

The overwhelming majority of bounty hunters never post outside of the bounty section. Bounty hunters generate many thousands of page views that are the ultimate driver of ad revenue. Unless you are a bounty hunter with some merit, these bounty hunters do not affect any forum member. Requiring bounty hunters to have a higher rank and merit to post in a sub that no one else looks at is only going to create a market for higher ranked accounts and for merit, both of which in my eyes are a negative. It does look weird to see these bounty hunters, but they are not affecting anyone and trying to regulate them will only cause damage to the broader forum.

Bitcoin_Arena

copper member

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1814

฿itcoin for all, All for ฿itcoin.

Admins putting more restrictions on newbie accounts? I doubt if that will happen. At least not anytime soon.

Here is one of the famous quotes by Theymos in regard to restricting newbie accounts, and I personally tend to agree with him. If you restrict newbie accounts so much, expect a forum that will have a short life. Most old members who left the forum won't be coming back.

Quote from: theymos on June 24, 2018, 10:16:59 PM

Right, I don't care about making money from the forum personally. (I've actually thought about getting rid of the forum ads, since it's often a big headache and the forum has enough reserves for a long time, but operating at a significant loss while there's money basically just sitting on the table feels wrong, even if the level of loss is sustainable for quite a while.)

The things on the forum which encourage spam are allowed mainly because it's part of the forum's mission to be as free as possible. Eg. banning bounties would undoubtedly reduce spam, but that'd be destroying an entire economy/population/culture which has been able to develop due to the forum's freedom. I am willing to take this sort of action, but only as an absolute last resort. It's always preferable to handle these problems by reshaping the environment to make them non-problems, rather than removing some freedom.

It's wonderful when someone is able to constructively do something on the forum instead of continuing with whatever they were expected to do under the status quo. Enabling that sort of thing is exactly why Bitcoin and this forum were created. Though bitcointalk.org is not a worldwide welfare organization, and people are not entitled to make money.

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

The low signal-to-noise is a real issue which seriously annoys me and is often on my mind. But as you mention, fixing it non-destructively is difficult.

skarais

legendary

Activity: 2464

Merit: 2094

It would be hard to see managers considering the OP's suggestion of whether to ban or limit the number of participant on the social media bounty program. I've found some managers limit the number of participant on signature bounty as well as the number of participant on social media program, this will be very useful to prevent a lot of abuse. But if you want all maintainers to limit the number of participant, especially social media program, I'm pretty sure that won't happen. I'm not sure if this suggestion has been around before, but I think it will affect anything.

JohnBitCo

sr. member

Activity: 2030

Merit: 356

Quote from: _BlackStar on October 01, 2021, 04:33:16 PM

Taking some bounties as an example, are you sure all the newbie accounts there are not owned by the same person or group of people?

Newbies account can't take participation in signature campaigns. They can only join social media bounty like FB, twitter articles, youtube etc.
Clever managers do have a check and can identify the duplicates but sometimes newbies can get away with it and some might have fake identities in the social media to abuse the bounty. They can do the same with Jr. member too but it would be more difficult.

Its hard to create a rule a that Newbie won't be accepted because some managers will still allow and also many bounties have no managers at all. They are run by the project team themselves.

_BlackStar

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1228

Playgram - The Telegram Casino

Quote from: Rikafip on October 02, 2021, 01:18:23 PM

Reality is that bounty managers need those newbies joining in, even though we all know that they are probably alt accounts. They probably promise some numbers to their clients and without alt accounts it probably wouldn't be possible to reach needed numbers.

So no, I don't see that restriction being applied any time soon, or at least not by majority of bounty managers.

Never know if it's justifiable or not. But maybe I don't agree with that way because generally cheaters will be tagged by dt members.

Quote from: isaac_clarke22 on October 02, 2021, 01:22:47 PM

Quote from: _BlackStar on October 01, 2021, 04:33:16 PM

~

If you suspect that a user is cheating with alts, just post it in this thread and just contact the CM/BM handling the campaign regarding the "cheating issue".

Every CM/BM have their own ways of handling their own campaign, OP.
Your suggestion could be read or considered if given a chance, but it is still up to the CMs/BMs themselves whether they would enforce your suggestion or not.

isaac_clarke22, I do not have expertise in that field and I do not yet have the ability to identify it. Someone will probably teach me soon after this.

Findingnemo

hero member

Activity: 2366

Merit: 793

Bitcoin = Financial freedom

I rarely visit bounties section but in the past there are some strict rules even for the social media campaign which is like atleast jr.member to join or the newbie account of certain age not a complete new account won't get accepted and also google forms were used for reporting the links. I don't think forum will restrict them and its the job of manager to restrict them if they feel the bounty become unmanageable but now they allows people to join so the workload is under control for them.

isaac_clarke22

sr. member

Activity: 1610

Merit: 264

Quote from: _BlackStar on October 01, 2021, 04:33:16 PM

~

If you suspect that a user is cheating with alts, just post it in this thread and just contact the CM/BM handling the campaign regarding the "cheating issue".

Every CM/BM have their own ways of handling their own campaign, OP.
Your suggestion could be read or considered if given a chance, but it is still up to the CMs/BMs themselves whether they would enforce your suggestion or not.

Rikafip

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 5937

Reality is that bounty managers need those newbies joining in, even though we all know that they are probably alt accounts. They probably promise some numbers to their clients and without alt accounts it probably wouldn't be possible to reach needed numbers.

So no, I don't see that restriction being applied any time soon, or at least not by majority of bounty managers.

_BlackStar

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1228

Playgram - The Telegram Casino

I might expect to be restricted by the manager, but it would be nice if the manager accepted nothing and excluded all newbie from any campaign. But I'm sure 99% of managers probably won't agree and that will only lower applicants. I say this so that newbie realize that interacting with other users is important and not a totality to make money so that we no longer find them only posting 100% reports from the time they first log in to the forum until the account is broken.

The Sceptical Chymist

legendary

Activity: 3528

Merit: 7005

Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: _BlackStar on October 01, 2021, 04:33:16 PM

if the manager can implement the rules of no longer accepting newbie accounts for every bounty that exists.

What precisely are you suggesting here, that bounties don't accept members of Newbie rank? At all? Or are you proposing that they limit the number that they accept?

I have signatures and avatars on ignore, so I can never tell who's in a bounty/campaign unless they have something written in their personal message space. Are Newbies even allowed to participate in bounties? I thought Jr. Member was the lowest rank that could participate. Either way, I doubt that bounty managers (most of them, anyway) care much about keeping the forum clean, so this suggestion will just probably be ignored and forgotten about. That's the sad truth, OP.

Edit: OP added those thread links while I was writing my post. I clicked on the first three, and it looks like only Jr. Members and above can participate in the bitcointalk part of those bounties, which is good except that it doesn't take much to rank up from Newbie. But who knows how many alt accounts there are in any of those bounties? Probably tons of them, but it's been a problem for a long time and nobody seems inclined to do much about it.

_BlackStar

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1228

Playgram - The Telegram Casino

Almost every day tens to hundreds of new accounts are created for various purposes. I probably wouldn't be too skeptical to think that most of those accounts are created to join social media bounty like Facebook Twitter and so on. Not a few of them are also cheaters so it will only add to the burden on the cheater hunters to find them every time.

I'm just thinking of a solution for this and maybe it will reduce the burden for cheater hunters if the manager can implement the rules of no longer accepting newbie accounts for every bounty that exists. So if indeed admin are not enforcing this rule in forum and putting it in unofficial rules then I think every manager should consider this suggestion if they really care about bounty cheater prevention.

Is this possible for most top managers?

Taking some bounties as an example, are you sure all the newbie accounts there are not owned by the same person or group of people?

1. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bountyrangers-protocolvirtual-worlds-blockchain-infrastructure-20k-4-weeks-5363393
2. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/content-creation-campaign-copuppy-cp-listed-at-exchanges-audited-5357289
3. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ended-pesp-coin-bounty-pool-w-escrow-5358513
4. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/paid-gistcoin-bounty-clubhouse-campaign-up-to-200k-in-gist-8weeks-5359083
5. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bounty-star-clearsight-75000-usd-worth-of-clst-will-be-shared-5360169

Topic: Should every newbie have a limit in the bounty of social media? (Read 533 times)