Should we be worried that China is buying so much bitcoin?

Bitcoin_is_here_to_stay

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Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on March 01, 2014, 10:14:53 PM

Volume in general is usually meaningless. At best, its a measure of MAXIMUM volume. Without any insider access whatsoever, and without doing anything against the 'rules' of an orderbook, its perfectly possible to increase the volume of a 0% fee exchange nearly infinitely. On a 0.5% fee exchange like stamp, not quite infinitely, but still hugely for very little cost, especially if I have lots of coins. Just because somebody is dumb enough to get 'fooled', doesn't mean that the activity which fooled them is necessarily criminal.

Even if you knew how many BTC were moving in and out of Huobi, it would be practically impossible for the chinese to be 'buying' coins, since for every buyer there must be a seller, and that seller is usually Chinese given that your getting CNY. There's a few foreigners (LIKE ME!) who daytrade on that shit for 0% fees, but even then eventually I have to rebuy to buy a currency that I can actually spend.

This.

theonewhowaskazu

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Quote from: bitcoinsrus on March 01, 2014, 10:39:57 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on March 01, 2014, 10:35:02 PM

Quote from: bitcoinsrus on March 01, 2014, 10:22:12 PM

I guess you guys confirmed my suspicions. I think that fiatleak etc sites try to make it seem like China is pushing a lot, but in reality its perception manipulation. I do (however) think China citizens do have a large(r) stash of btc compared to rest of the world (relatively) since there are many people (living there)

It could eventually lead to price manipulation (if many chinese buy or sell a whole bunch at any given time). But seems like this bs fiatleak volume is incorrect might affect prices slightly but not majorly.

The volume is not incorrect; many Bitcoins are in fact being traded over there. Keyword TRADED. These are not buy-and-holders. If I buy 100 BTC and wait till it goes up 1 cent, then flip it, I'm happy because I made $1 (thanks to 0% fees). But thats 200 BTC of volume, for basically 0 market action. Now note that there are a ton of bots doing this ALL DAY LONG, for $1 each time, and you can see why the volume would go really high. Its not even necessarily because anyone is trying to manipulate anything (although they easily could, with 0% fees).

oops, error @volume thing I said. Lol at people literally doing anything to make a buck (trading 100 btc for 1 dollar profit).

Well, even though its 100 BTC, its very low risk as your only in the market for a couple minutes AT MOST, and if you've got a bot doing this for you all day every day, hey, it'll let your computer earn more than if it was just mining, so what the heck?

But yeah, the "craziness" of the market is a bit amusing at times.

akujin

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They'll disappear with your coins Grin

jl2012

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Quote from: TERA on March 01, 2014, 09:50:32 PM

Quote from: Dalmar on March 01, 2014, 09:32:29 PM

It is only a matter of time till Huobi gets busted on their fake volumes or gets shut down by Chinese authorities. This is similar to how the Gox situation was quite foreseeable.

I don't think the volume there is neccessarily "fake" . I just think that, with the 0 fees there, there's this high frequency trading bot that's getting popular in China and more and more people keep piling in with this bot, which results in the same coins being traded back and forth 20 times per day. This makes the volume irrelevant, but not intentionally deceptive or criminal. So the government wouldn't have anything to do about it. It's just a misfortune that the public looks at this volume and makes more of it than it really is.

This.

And this topic is just like menstruation, but instead of once a month, it's once a day

bitcoinsrus

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Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on March 01, 2014, 10:35:02 PM

Quote from: bitcoinsrus on March 01, 2014, 10:22:12 PM

I guess you guys confirmed my suspicions. I think that fiatleak etc sites try to make it seem like China is pushing a lot, but in reality its perception manipulation. I do (however) think China citizens do have a large(r) stash of btc compared to rest of the world (relatively) since there are many people (living there)

It could eventually lead to price manipulation (if many chinese buy or sell a whole bunch at any given time). But seems like this bs fiatleak volume is incorrect might affect prices slightly but not majorly.

The volume is not incorrect; many Bitcoins are in fact being traded over there. Keyword TRADED. These are not buy-and-holders. If I buy 100 BTC and wait till it goes up 1 cent, then flip it, I'm happy because I made $1 (thanks to 0% fees). But thats 200 BTC of volume, for basically 0 market action. Now note that there are a ton of bots doing this ALL DAY LONG, for $1 each time, and you can see why the volume would go really high. Its not even necessarily because anyone is trying to manipulate anything (although they easily could, with 0% fees).

oops, error @volume thing I said. Lol at people literally doing anything to make a buck (trading 100 btc for 1 dollar profit).

theonewhowaskazu

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Quote from: bitcoinsrus on March 01, 2014, 10:22:12 PM

I guess you guys confirmed my suspicions. I think that fiatleak etc sites try to make it seem like China is pushing a lot, but in reality its perception manipulation. I do (however) think China citizens do have a large(r) stash of btc compared to rest of the world (relatively) since there are many people (living there)

It could eventually lead to price manipulation (if many chinese buy or sell a whole bunch at any given time). But seems like this bs fiatleak volume is incorrect might affect prices slightly but not majorly.

The volume is not incorrect; many Bitcoins are in fact being traded over there. Keyword TRADED. These are not buy-and-holders. If I buy 100 BTC and wait till it goes up 1 cent, then flip it, I'm happy because I made $1 (thanks to 0% fees). But thats 200 BTC of volume, for basically 0 market action. Now note that there are a ton of bots doing this ALL DAY LONG, for $1 each time, and you can see why the volume would go really high. Its not even necessarily because anyone is trying to manipulate anything (although they easily could, with 0% fees).

TERA

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Quote from: Walsoraj on March 01, 2014, 10:17:17 PM

Quote from: TERA on March 01, 2014, 10:14:07 PM

Quote from: Walsoraj on March 01, 2014, 10:12:06 PM

Quote from: TERA on March 01, 2014, 09:50:32 PM

Quote from: Dalmar on March 01, 2014, 09:32:29 PM

It is only a matter of time till Huobi gets busted on their fake volumes or gets shut down by Chinese authorities. This is similar to how the Gox situation was quite foreseeable.

I don't think the volume there is neccessarily "fake" . I just think that, with the 0 fees there, there's this high frequency trading bot that's getting popular in China and more and more people keep piling in with this bot, which results in the same coins being traded back and forth 20 times per day. This makes the volume irrelevant, but not intentionally deceptive or criminal. So the government wouldn't have anything to do about it. It's just a misfortune that the public looks at this volume and makes more of it than it really is.

Generating volume like that is in fact deceptive. It creates an impression of increased activity. This can fool inexperienced investors in a number of ways, including mistakenly associating more activity with more interest from new investors.

But it's a collective action of large group of people and the end result of their activity happens to something deceptive when looked at. However, no one person actually has a malicious intent to do something deceptive. Each person is just running a bot trying to make a profit on their trades. Nobody is a criminal.

Fooling inexperienced investors is the means to making a profit on their trades. I don't think "out fooling" each other is a good excuse.

How do you know that? My impression is they're all just playing with eachother, like a video game. It's like a game of poker, except much better odds than poker.

bitcoinsrus

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I guess you guys confirmed my suspicions. I think that fiatleak etc sites try to make it seem like China is pushing a lot, but in reality its perception manipulation. I do (however) think China citizens do have a large(r) stash of btc compared to rest of the world (relatively) since there are many people (living there)

It could eventually lead to price manipulation (if many chinese buy or sell a whole bunch at any given time). But seems like this bs fiatleak volume is incorrect might affect prices slightly but not majorly.

Walsoraj

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Ultranode

Quote from: TERA on March 01, 2014, 10:14:07 PM

Quote from: Walsoraj on March 01, 2014, 10:12:06 PM

Quote from: TERA on March 01, 2014, 09:50:32 PM

Quote from: Dalmar on March 01, 2014, 09:32:29 PM

It is only a matter of time till Huobi gets busted on their fake volumes or gets shut down by Chinese authorities. This is similar to how the Gox situation was quite foreseeable.

I don't think the volume there is neccessarily "fake" . I just think that, with the 0 fees there, there's this high frequency trading bot that's getting popular in China and more and more people keep piling in with this bot, which results in the same coins being traded back and forth 20 times per day. This makes the volume irrelevant, but not intentionally deceptive or criminal. So the government wouldn't have anything to do about it. It's just a misfortune that the public looks at this volume and makes more of it than it really is.

Generating volume like that is in fact deceptive. It creates an impression of increased activity. This can fool inexperienced investors in a number of ways, including mistakenly associating more activity with more interest from new investors.

But it's a collective action of large group of people and the end result of their activity happens to something deceptive when looked at. However, no one person actually has a malicious intent to do something deceptive. Each person is just running a bot trying to make a profit on their trades. Nobody is a criminal.

Fooling inexperienced investors is the means to making a profit on their trades. I don't think "out fooling" each other is a good excuse.

theonewhowaskazu

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Activity: 448

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Volume in general is usually meaningless. At best, its a measure of MAXIMUM volume. Without any insider access whatsoever, and without doing anything against the 'rules' of an orderbook, its perfectly possible to increase the volume of a 0% fee exchange nearly infinitely. On a 0.5% fee exchange like stamp, not quite infinitely, but still hugely for very little cost, especially if I have lots of coins. Just because somebody is dumb enough to get 'fooled', doesn't mean that the activity which fooled them is necessarily criminal.

Even if you knew how many BTC were moving in and out of Huobi, it would be practically impossible for the chinese to be 'buying' coins, since for every buyer there must be a seller, and that seller is usually Chinese given that your getting CNY. There's a few foreigners (LIKE ME!) who daytrade on that shit for 0% fees, but even then eventually I have to rebuy to buy a currency that I can actually spend.

TERA

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Quote from: Walsoraj on March 01, 2014, 10:12:06 PM

Quote from: TERA on March 01, 2014, 09:50:32 PM

Quote from: Dalmar on March 01, 2014, 09:32:29 PM

It is only a matter of time till Huobi gets busted on their fake volumes or gets shut down by Chinese authorities. This is similar to how the Gox situation was quite foreseeable.

I don't think the volume there is neccessarily "fake" . I just think that, with the 0 fees there, there's this high frequency trading bot that's getting popular in China and more and more people keep piling in with this bot, which results in the same coins being traded back and forth 20 times per day. This makes the volume irrelevant, but not intentionally deceptive or criminal. So the government wouldn't have anything to do about it. It's just a misfortune that the public looks at this volume and makes more of it than it really is.

Generating volume like that is in fact deceptive. It creates an impression of increased activity. This can fool inexperienced investors in a number of ways, including mistakenly associating more activity with more interest from new investors.

But it's a collective action of large group of people and the end result of their activity happens to something deceptive when looked at. However, no one person actually has a malicious intent to do something deceptive. Each person is just running a bot trying to make a profit on their trades. Nobody is a criminal.

Walsoraj

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Activity: 686

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Ultranode

Quote from: TERA on March 01, 2014, 09:50:32 PM

Quote from: Dalmar on March 01, 2014, 09:32:29 PM

It is only a matter of time till Huobi gets busted on their fake volumes or gets shut down by Chinese authorities. This is similar to how the Gox situation was quite foreseeable.

I don't think the volume there is neccessarily "fake" . I just think that, with the 0 fees there, there's this high frequency trading bot that's getting popular in China and more and more people keep piling in with this bot, which results in the same coins being traded back and forth 20 times per day. This makes the volume irrelevant, but not intentionally deceptive or criminal. So the government wouldn't have anything to do about it. It's just a misfortune that the public looks at this volume and makes more of it than it really is.

Generating volume like that is in fact deceptive. It creates an impression of increased activity. This can fool inexperienced investors in a number of ways, including mistakenly associating more activity with more interest from new investors.

TERA

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Quote from: Dalmar on March 01, 2014, 09:32:29 PM

It is only a matter of time till Huobi gets busted on their fake volumes or gets shut down by Chinese authorities. This is similar to how the Gox situation was quite foreseeable.

I don't think the volume there is neccessarily "fake" . I just think that, with the 0 fees there, there's this high frequency trading bot that's getting popular in China and more and more people keep piling in with this bot, which results in the same coins being traded back and forth 20 times per day. This makes the volume irrelevant, but not intentionally deceptive or criminal. So the government wouldn't have anything to do about it. It's just a misfortune that the public looks at this volume and makes more of it than it really is.

Dalmar

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Life is short, practice empathy in your life

It is only a matter of time till Huobi gets busted on their fake volumes or gets shut down by Chinese authorities. This is similar to how the Gox situation was quite foreseeable.

Skoupi

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Skoupi the Great

China's market is pretty much dead compared with what it was before the ban.

porcupine87

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hm

Quote from: MAbtc on March 01, 2014, 09:05:43 PM

Quote from: TERA on March 01, 2014, 09:05:13 PM

How does it fiat leak get its data? Is it just that someone is making trades on Huobi?

Yes. It is useless and dumb.

+1

MAbtc

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Quote from: TERA on March 01, 2014, 09:05:13 PM

How does it fiat leak get its data? Is it just that someone is making trades on Huobi?

Yes. It is useless and dumb.

TERA

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How does it fiat leak get its data? Is it just that someone is making trades on Huobi?

bitcoinsrus

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Should we be worried that China is buying so much bitcoin?
According to fiatleak, it looks like China is buying and trading bitcoin. Fiatleak, Huobi may be propaganda (or even bots that is faking trading volume).

If China is buying a lot of btc, will they soon have a control on the price (leading to possible price manipulation any time they want?)

Reguardless, it looks like China is trading (a lot). Even if the volume is faked, how will this affect btc price and what does it mean overall? (If faked, why and what will outcome be)

And I want to trade with bitstamp.net, is anyone using them, are they reliable and is this a smart idea or should I pull money out?

Topic: Should we be worried that China is buying so much bitcoin? (Read 1828 times)