Topic: Shouldn't new Fund GABI aka Global Advisors Bitcoin Investment Fund boost price? (Read 12962 times)

FTFY

These perma bears just don't give up! 

These perma bulls just don't give up! 

They could've asked any moron on here or Reddit whether a relationship with a UKish bank would last. They should've gone straight to Fidor and saved themselves the ball ache.

Looks like it's on its last legs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-30261976

I can't blame them.   I just hope that they keep buying.  It is going to look really great to GABI's initial investors when they see the price rise from this point on so hopefully that just adds fuel to the fire and they invest even more, or tell their rich friends to invest.  We will see how it plays out.

looks like the gabi guys found a way to buy at really low prices....

I said, "Shouldn't new fund boost price?" not "new fund Will boost price!"  

Hopefully something happens one of these days. . .

We have seen new, large buys on Friday and today at the end of the British workday.  They do appear to be being on-market every day.  We'll see if it continues.

I'm not holding....I'm HODLING!  Definitely not letting my stash go anytime soon!  I'm just not betting on a big jump due to the hedgies.  And that's fine with me...I can add more on dips, which I've done 3 times in the last 7-10 days.

You cannot lose any money if you hold

Sure, I understand what market cap represents.  I don't suspect it is possible to substantiate the claim that $200mm drove the market cap from $2-3 billion to $12 billion, but even if it were true, that is no guarantee of what $200mm invested in a hedge fund will do.

Keep in mind, they will not drive their own entry point UP. It will not happen. They are smarter than that.

market cap is not the same as amount of actual money that went into making that market cap. when all the bitcoins already paid for increase in value because of an exchange price hike, market cap increases. so if someone spend 5 million and drove the price up 10%, all the other coins would also rise 10% making the entire market cap rise 10%. market cap went from 2-3 billion to 12 billion during the last rally. do you think people actually put 9 billion dollars of new money into bitcoin? umm nope. couple hundred million is all it took.

It's German!

Using French, German, English and Spanish words is only intellectual swaggering with my language knowledge.

And a pretext for mistakes ;-)

If I am not mistaken, $200mm is about 2.5% of the current market cap. Not insignificant, but I wouldn't think for even one second that this is a major short or intermediate price driver.

Keep in mind, also, that
1) these people are traders. They are NOT going to drive up their own buy price. As a hedge fund, they are under no obligation to buy bitcoin with that money, certainly not in the next few weeks. All they are paid to do is make money for their clients. If they make money buying, they will buy. If not, they won't. They may short.
2) markets are, by nature, forward-looking. Any benefit is likely priced in.

Not saying it is a bad thing. It is likely a good thing, certainly long-term. But this won't move the market right now.

you don't have to be a cultist buying wildly to drive the price up. obviously they're going to trade the ups and downs, like all of us do, but regardless...200 million dollars is going to get pumped into bitcoin. you honestly think thats going to go unnoticed? also the word is fund not fond 

Ok,tnx for clearing this out. 

If GABI is typical Hedge Fond, than this is not a one way. Hedge Fond does not mean that they'll buy in madness driving price up to make bitcoin holders presents. Hedge Fonds are also trying to make money when price turns south.

I get the impression that a lot of people here are seeing Hedge Fonds as some kind of new bitcoin cultists. They are not!

Yep,GABI should drive the price up.

I don't think GABI is buying yet.  They're accepting cash from investors, but I think what they're saying is that it will be September before they start buying BTC.  (Of course, that could just be what they want us to think....)


http://www.coindesk.com/market-monthly-stable-bitcoin/

I duno if its them buying the coins, but yeah like 4000 have been bought already, glad I listened to my contrarian indicator (falling) and bought those coins at 560. Lunch- paid for. 

It could! It might! But will it?

Well, today is the launch date and it looks like maybe GABI is buying some coins off the exchanges.

This could get crazy really fast now.  

These people are not even "traders" in the traditional sense of adding value to a product my moving it from a location where it is plentiful to one where it is scarce.

They profit from information asymmetry and the easiest way to find an information asymmetry is to create it yourself.  If you do not know your edge against Wall street, don't play the game.  But at the same time don't ignore your advantages.  For example, many technical people have a natural edge... they can look at a company's products esp. looking at the new features and decide whether the engineering team is still vibrant.  This analysis would tell you not to invest in microsoft, for example, and honestly google is in transition -- new google maps is horrible, everything being crammed under google+, Android integration with cars has gotten worse.  Of course Google's momentum can keep it going for years.

...one famous retail investor followed his teenage daughters around the mall and invested in whatever they were excited about...

And this really should come as no surprise either. They play in a more or less zero sum game (they are not entrepreneurs that create things). They are traders. The only way they make money is if somebody else loses theirs. That's the nature, objective, and end of their profession. A finds a way to take B's money without breaking laws. Why we don't think that it is at least a disturbing possibility that A might just do everything they can to take B's money is kind of beyond me. Irrational exuberance. Play long term or hedge your bets.

Can't say if they engage in naked short selling.   That's pretty risky.   Here's an article where he talks about his other fund

http://m.futuresmag.com/2010/04/01/global-advisors-the-best-of-both-worlds

Oh, it should also be noted that in Forex markets there are at least private institution rules against market manipulation (see CFA rules and guidelines) as well as exchange rules. Are they robust and do they actually prevent widespread abuses? Not really. But in Bitcoin there really is nothing at all preventing gobblydegoosh.

exactly, I'm not talking about bitcoin hedgefunds. I'm talking about wall street in general. they usually have a very loose definition of 'fair play'

It is entirely possible that they might crash the market so they can buy up cheap. With how much leverage there is on the market and with their financial backing this wouldn't be hard to do. They are playing poker pot rich and in poker if you have a large enough pot then you can wipe out the table either by stealing blinds or forcing them all-in repeatedly. With enough of a pot, you can wipe out the table. Remember, market manipulation is not banned in Bitcoin the same way it is on Wall Street.

My thoughts: (1) If you are playing intermediate to long-term then the influx of new players, even with the bull--- that might ensue -- is bullish; (2) If you are bargain shopping, you might get your chance but it is far from guaranteed; (3) if you are highly leveraged you might as well have just donated your Coins; and (4) if you are more of a trader than a holder then carefully hedge.

Will all of this come to fruition? Probably not. BUT, it is important to note that there is not a single reason why it couldn't happen. Be careful.

I would think that with the fact that the blockchain offers some transparency, we would be able at some point to see how many coins they are holding?  It would be horrible if they indeed were just selling coins that they really don't have.

Hedge funds are unregulated so they don't have to disclose anything.  Good luck finding any dirt on them

This Daniel Masters guy used to head energy trading at JP Morgan.   His specialty was oil.   Seems like JPM bought physical oil and hedged by selling oil futures. I was kind of surprised they took delivery of physical oil!    He left cause JP Morgan closed down that division

Hard to say what his strategy is.   He probably won't tell you unless you drop mucho duckets in his fund

Haha.   I found out his wife is Blythe Masters.   She's the one who created the 'credit default swap' that everyone used and contributed to 2008 GFC.

Very smart people,  but also epitome of so called 'banksters' that bitcoiners love to hate.   

SecondMarket was the first hedgefund. Its almost a year old. How have they manipulated the market? Please cite specifics. Thanks.

i think you're giving them a little to much credit in the ethics department. do you know what these guys motivators are? money. that is all. if it is not clear cut ILLEGAL and fully banned, they will sure as hell do it if they can make a buck on it. to think that hedgefunds play fair is frankly ridiculous. ever heard of high frequency trading? its basically insider trading done by bots to get around insider trading laws (Its not illegal if the computer makes the trades instead of a person) and thats done in practically every major market.

I haven't seen anything saying that GABI will actually buy any bitcoins.  Just a lot of video nonsense that doesn't mean anything.

Does anyone have anything resembling a prospectus?  Otherwise, GABI may be VERY bad for bitcoin by increasing supply with bogus numbers of fake bitcoins.

If there's money to be made and no laws to be broken then they may as well go for it.

I'm aware that there are practically zero rules againt manipulation in the BTC market, however I don't believe the lack of such rules/regulations is a necessary motivator for a fund to act in such a way.  But what do I know   

Trader? I suppose you could say that. He was the Global Head of Energy Trading at JPMorgan for six years.

Don't think they can get in the market so easily with 200M.

Maybe they will invest in alt coin ?

There are zero rules against that in the BTC market right now. Perhaps that'll change but then again there aren't any rules against it in any forex market which is where Bitcoin may end up.

It would have been nice if there was some information out there about what amount of coins the fund is starting with and their strategy for obtaining them.  At least Second Market gave out more info about the buying structure.  Maybe when they launch on Friday? 

The founder was a oil futures trader so I'm curious to what he plans to do w bitcoin

I agree, however GABI hasn't even launched yet.  The question at hand (IMO) is have they already started accumulating, and if so are they primarily doing it OTC?  I personally wouldn't expect to see a legitimate hedge fund actively, and knowingly, manipulating a market to such an extent to take their position.  I'm no wall street guru, but I'd think that kind of activity is illegal.

a hedge fund should have some strategy.  If they just buy & hold, heck you can do that yourself

Possible, sure.  But if GABI is looking for 200MM in holdings, that's approx 385,000 BTC at the current market rate.  These piddly dumps and buys is nowhere near that kind of volume, even cumulatively.

Sorry I meant to add input to this and not just point out failings further absurdities. I think the hedgefund is going to be big, but I think it's been in the works long enough that big fish already got wind of the situation, and that is the reason for the market manipulation a we've seen where there are 1000-1500btc dumps aimed at causing panic in an otherwise healthy market. Bitcoin doesn't react to FUD these days, so the powers behind the shadows have to physically move the market to get people scared. Unfortunately the trading bots exaggerate the slippage and this has been keeping the consolidation period going. But basically the entire thing is happening because someone big wants in. I suspect multiple people are working together towards a mutal goal of causing orchestrated panic to keep a price ceiling in place while they work to position themselves better without causing a panic buying event. These are the kind of people who want to buy 50000 btc without any price slippage. That's a tough goal but what if you could pay your friends who have substantial market moving abilities to dump a few thousand coins and then buy back in lower? And do it over and over? To me this market manipulation is actually bullish, because it tells me smart money wants in, but they're doing it in a clinical and organized way to remain quiet. That means smart money believes in bitcoin, and they're smart  so that's why I think the fund hasn't caused a rise. I think last time there were two bear traps before the fire works, so why not this time?

I put him on ignore loooong ago. 

We might have to consider that fallling is what? Probably 12/13 years old, has/had invested some 150$ pocket money... Ofcourse he is trembling on his legs when it drops a dollar. He's also too young to understand how the grownups-world works, that's also going to be the reason why he'll still have 150$ or less on his 18 birthday.

After just one post from falllling I realized I should have made this thread a self-moderated thread.

Oh well.  I was just trying to get an intellectual discussion going on how a fund like GABI could be a game changer.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how the Second Market Fund, even though smaller than this one is expected to be, boosted the price?  Was it opened before the run in November?  I will have to do some research on that. . .

Edit:  Just looked into when the Second Market fund opened and it was at the end of September!  So I think had an influence on the last bubble for sure.  I think things are going to get crazy in the next few weeks.

I'm not lying on anything. You just said that 5 million in cash outs is nothing compared to 200 million in investment. That is a lie. Making you a liar. A liar who can't speak or spell properly, which totally helps your credibility btw you also said the hedgefund is just not going to happen, due to some nonexistent market crash you've been ranting about since your first post, but guess what? It is happening. That's why they did a press release and got the fund approved and are launching it. You can't just make that shit up, it's illegal, even on jersey isle. So, so far, that's two lies you've said in this thread alone, that contradict each other. If you're going to troll and act stupid, at least make up your mind about what rediculous fictitious scenarios you're pushing.

200m is not going to join during the market crash, so 1200k dump will just kill the bitcoin, now face the market crash, you stupid liar

my thoughts are that were not the only ones aware of this event, and whales are at their old price manipulation game to collect more coins in preparation of the event. they dump medium-small chunks of coins to cause a price drop, all the retards like failing follow suite to get it even lower, and the big guys buy back in at a lower price, then they just repeat the process. its been happening for months.

 failing thinks the less than a million dollars of missing coins outweighs the importance of hundreds of millions of fresh money being invested, so that just shows you how much you should listen to him 

i gotta say the only reason i haven't put that little bitch on ignore is i get such a laugh out of how he talks like yoda.
200 million > 5.5 million. learn math you fucking moron.

Well, one falllling on ignore later, yes, I think it will increase the price, but at the moment we have a lot of get-rich-quick people losing hope and selling "while they have the chance!". Good bye, whatever. This is a multiyear game as bitcoin takes its inevitable place in the economy. Granted this panic might take the price quite a bit lower, but because I don't know that for certain, I'm holding on to my bitcoins. I learnt my lesson waiting for bitcoin to drop down from $12 before i bought back in... never happened. I am too afraid to sell.

agree, he better starts to cut lose

i guess he has gotten stuck in those coins and wanna dump his bag very much now, so he is probably talking bull but dumping his at behind
it seems like you are mad about the market crashing, you should have listened to me and sell when it was $62x, now it's your last chance to cut lose or you will be another bag holder

Don´t take him seriously, windjc is one of most well known trolls in here. Keep up the good work falllin!

YOU STUPID FKN IDIOT HE ALREADY HAS A TON OF COINS HE JUST WANTS YOU TO STOP TALKING SH*T AND PUT YOUR NON-EXISTANT MOTHERFU*KIN MONEY WHERE YOUR ENORMOUS MOTHERFU*KIN MOUTH IS

how comes? you suddently don't want those "cheap" coins any more but encourage someone else to buy? a lying bear exposed

Exposed. Fraud.

well my name won't change anything about the market trend, you know we are in the bear market, just dropped to $57x, buy more lose more

you are free to buy all those "cheap" coins on the current market and make $$$ for yourself if you do believe what you said

I figure with a name like "falllling" he can't help but be pessimistic about the price.

No need for me to bet.  I am already "all in" just by holding as much coins as I can afford (if not more than I really should afford) at this point.

fallling - put your money where your mouth is. I will bet you $6000 that BTC is worth over $700 on Jan 1st 2015.

If you don't accept it's because either you are broke and don't know the first thing about making money or your just a bull in bears clothing, trying to get cheaper coins.

Take the bet. Or be exposed.

$200 million is nothing compare to this huge cashing out, that's why people lost hopes and still dumping even now.
besides these money might stop getting in when they realize the situation

But we are talking about a $200 million investment here.  At even $1000 per coin that would be 200,000 coins.  Maybe they can get some off an exchange or already have but if not there is no way the price can stay this low, even with these people that are trying to sell coins.  Plus, as the price rises even slightly more people will want coins and the demand will increase even more.

get rich quick won't happen !
crackers and governments and shit having 1200k coins(mtgox 200k, Ross Ulbricht 140k, crackers: 850k) + https://www.ethereum.org/ Over 8000 bitcoins is being held by this new project. As long as there are more investors, price of bitcoin will keep dropping due to cashing out.

So in just 5 days we have the largest fund to date opening, the GABI or Global Advisors Bitcoin Investment fund

see: http://www.globaladvisors.co.uk/

Although similar to Second Market, this fund will be at an even larger scale.  They have been silent on where the coins are coming from and how many they may already have but I had read at one point that $200M was expected to be invested in the first 6 months.  (this was on a Newsweek article but that part appears to have been taken out now.)

I would think that since we are on the brink of this happening in a few days that some panic buying would already be taking place but instead we have some dumpers.  This seems crazy to me.  

Thoughts?

Edit:  I found where it is quoted that $200 Million will be invested again in this article: http://moneymorning.com/2014/07/24/bitcoin-hedge-funds-multiply-as-big-money-sees-opportunity/