Topic: Situation with btc and usecase lets think now (Read 230 times)

Bitcoin is different from centralized currency which many people use to in the country. Bitcoin is a decentralized currency that can decrease and increase at anytime in the market without any signs. For you to achieve a suitable profit from bitcoin just try and buy when the price is low in the market and hold till the market change positively before you can sell to make a good profit. In this season we are is not good to sell bitcoin if anyone want to make a huge amount of money in this December. The price of bitcoin is still $47k which it will increase higher before the end of this week for many investors to achieve their income.

The main issue is not much who use it and regulation about government not allow crypto as payment for legal companies. In my country, crypto can't be payment but if personal transaction like p2p i think not be a problem. About price, it is seller risk why he keep hold his bitcoin and then decreased in value, as long both already agree when transaction happened.

The argument about BTC being used as currency had been debated many times but it really depends on what the holder will do to his BTC. Most of the holders will just use it as an investment.

The seller who received the BTC could sell the BTC if he plans to cash out right after he got it so he won't lose the value. Like the rest of the investors, he wouldn't accept BTC if he has no knowledge of the volatility of BTC. But while the value can go low, it can also go up like any investment.

if you want to put money in bitcoin especially on this situation, i suggest never dump! Because that's what it's, i mean watching your portfolio isn't good because it will decrease gradually. But when it comes long term it's worth it mate.. Even 10x is possible the way how it skyrocketed if the market is fine. So never sell once you have invested your money in it just keep holding that's the best strategy..

The volatility is the main thing in the bitcoin investment, but you are free to use your bitcoin for any reason, such as using your bitcoin to buy altcoin, which can help you increase your bitcoin for the altcoin trading profit.
I think that every investor of bitcoin should manage the risk of volatility and know how they should use their bitcoin.
And knowing that needs more experience and learning from many lessons so they can know what the right thing they need to do is.
The situation now is bitcoin is still not going up and we need to know how to anticipate it so we do not get a big risk or lose our investment.

Yes we did.
But I must say that using my country as example of incoming inflation within developed countries like USA or the European Union is a bit out of place in my opinion, because of several reasons:

- Our national currency is being slowly replaced by other FIATs, mostly USD

- Our inflation has been slowing down lately, we are still having inflation but it is nothing like the 100% per week we used to have back in 2015-2018.

-Our inflation it was because extremely reckless economical measures by the central bank, that prefered to follow the orders of the president (political orders) instead worrying about the macro-economonics. This is the kind of recklessness I would not expect in any serious economy like USA, China or the EU.

I'll let this Graph so you can have an idea of how the inflation have developed these years. Have a good day.



Source: https://twitter.com/steve_hanke/status/1225497638063075328?lang=uk

Yes, the seller is obviously at a loss. I guess there's no point denying this. And this is probably the reason why adoption among businesses is a little slower than it should be. But it should be pointed out as well that the loss is merely paper loss. Meaning, it is temporary loss. It could only become a permanent loss if the seller decides to convert it to fiat or spend it even with a lower price.

Lucky for those businesses that could absorb the paper loss and continue with their business operations by shelling out more capital. But those small businesses that are dependent on their day-to-day income so that they could continue operating the following day might find it unbearable and would definitely prefer a more stable currency.

i bought something with fiat in a retail store that only accepts fiat.

its regular price was $400. but was $300 on black friday. and now that christmas is approaching and stock is low its priced at $450

even fiat has volatility.

ive even seen simple things like milk vary by 25% depending on which retailer you choose.
fiat is not as stable as people think. we have just got used to its change so much we have stopped noticing the change.

i have just gone on ebay and typed in "UK XBOX X series 1TB" and the prices range from £700-£760
so fiat is no different to bitcoin in terms of variable pricing

when you put the same mindset of "sales event", "discount day", "convenience premium" and £retailer competition/monopoly" of fiat, and put it to bitcoin.
you will start to see a bitcoin price dip as a discount day (good for buyer bad for seller)
and when the price is hyped up its the "convenience premium" (good for seller bad for buyer)

so buy the dip(discount) sell the hype(premium)
buy low sell high

when transacting. merchants decide their level of risk of discount/premium when they set their prices to offer products for. they assume the risk. they assume they may make a loss if they dont time their sell of goods right (much like retailers make a loss on goods passed their 'sale by date') or when next gen fresher goods come about

they price this risk into the goods offering price.

if they want to sell something at ~$500(0.01btc today) but they think that by the time they get that btc and convert it to pay their own costs the price might dip by 10%. they might price it at 0.011btc instead to factor in this risk. ensuring it covers any possible dips.

many merchants even have 'live price' monitoring, where by the btc price of a website shopping cart calculates the amount of btc only at the time of purchase or uses dynamic webpages where the day/hour the customer is browsing has the price of goods match that day/hours price. and not some fixed html text they only update every 6 months (dynamic websites are a thing)

Bitcoin still has a lot of volatility because the real value is way higher than what it is today.

In the long term Bitcoin purchasing power will increase, so you're better off saving it, but of course you need to use money to live in society. As long as you spend less than what you earn you should be fine.

On the other hand, if you look at fiat currencies, in the long term their purchasing power is reduced dramatically so you're better off just buying anything with it as soon as you get it.

As an example, one Argentinean dollar about a decade ago was worth one USD. Today it's worth one cent.

In Venezuela things are worse, they just removed 6 zeroes to their currency.

And hyperinflation is just starting in many countries.

Obtain Bitcoin, and save it. You'll be wealthier in the future.

that's why Bitcoin is difficult to use as a means of payment. The price of bitcoin always goes up and down so that Bitcoin holders can benefit or will be harmed when the price goes down. If they can manage the bitcoins they have then they can still make a profit, the most important thing is that they can hold Bitcoin when the price goes down because one day the price of bitcoin will definitely go up more.

The merchant gets to choose what they prefer.  If they want to trust the government, then they can quickly exchange their bitcoins for the local currency (or the currency of any other government that they trust more) immediately after the sale.  If they prefer to trust the free market, then they can just hold on to the Bitcoins and wait for the exchange rate to recover.

OP is just giving the example of what if he buy something from using Bitcoin, let's say 1 BTC and the current price is like $60k and after the transaction with the merchant it goes $40k or something like that. I think we all know how volatile the market is, so, I think the merchant wouldn't accept something if he knew the market is in a decline or it's just me thinking that way?

Besides, if the market is in decline there's no way the price would drop straight from $60k to $40k in a minute, it should take some time though I get the point of OP and it's just a what if. So, it's really up to the merchant to decide the price but the question is that is it fiat based or Bitcoin based? Like you have to pay $60k for that item no matter how much Bitcoin it is or you pay 1 BTC no matter what's the value of it on fiat.

The merchant or company accepting BTC from costumers might have factored all what you have said before venturing into it. Some strategic risk management can be deployed.

I don't think you understand what a stock market is. Someone's profit is definitely going to be someone's loss eventually, but this thing won't hold true until the market completely collapses to zero. Because someone to whom you are selling in profit is buying for anticipation that in future the prices will eventually rise, and similarly when he would sell, he would sell to someone who thinks price would eventually rise, so until the price is rising everyone is in profit, some might be in little profit while some might be in more, but once the market starts collapsing then this chain gets reversed and it becomes more like a zero-sum game. If the 3rd person in the chain doesn't sells at right time he is eventually taking the loss from the profit that the first two guys have made.

If they use that bitcoin during the period that it has fallen since you make your purchase, then yes. They're in a loss.

If by “not using it for paying something” you mean to use it as a currency, then it's mostly due to volatility. Note that there are less and less fluctuations as the market cap rises. That's true, because it makes it harder to manipulate.

I get your point, but you have to understand that the percentage changes of the price of the U.S. dollar are far, far less than bitcoin's. Yes, Turkey Lira's dropped by a lot more during the last month, but compare the times this happens with bitcoin and with any fiat currency.

What's better for the merchant to sleep easy? To trust the free market or the government?

So far I have not been able to match the value of Bitcoin with certain items, even items that are considered luxury. Be it a car or a house. But if I choose, of course I will use Bitcoin to pay for home facilities that are beneficial for me and my family. The rest I have not been able to balance with other luxury items. That is when viewed from the current value of 1 Bitcoin. Maybe with Dollars I can relax a lot more than Bitcoin.

Agreed, it depends on the other side as the amount of BTC can be either a settled deal in present where the person takes out their $$$ by selling BTC or they take a calculated future risk/investment.

One thing to make clear is that the volatility works in both ways.  So as long as both, the buyer/seller are happy to transact the rest is up to them, their choice and their responsibility. It is the risk/reward each party should be comfortable taking.

Imagine I buy something today with U.S. dollars.
With enough U.S. dollars that the seller can buy 1 Big Mac from McDonald's for himself.
Today it's worth enough to buy 1 Big Mac, but because of inflation McDonald's changes their price and tomorrow it is not enough to buy a Big Mac anymore.
And because of inflation, they can buy even less for it later in the future, so the person that I paid with U.S. dollars in in a loss?
Inflation is the main issue why we can't ever use U.S. dollars to pay for something... or I'm wrong?
Or how is the situation here?

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With Bitcoin, the seller has options.
If there is a different currency that they trust more, then they can exchange their bitcoins for that other currency immediately after the sale.
If the seller doesn't need access to the funds immediately, then they can just wait for the exchange rate to recover back to what it was.
If the seller has things that they need to purchase, then they can make that purchase immediately after the sale (before the exchange rate changes much).

I know one of the most prevention accepting as a payment method is volatility. But there are still some merchants accepting that. So do you think they are losing if the price dump? The answer would be both yes and no. If they are holding then no they aren't gonna lose anything since Bitcoin behavior is recovering the price again and again. If they decide to sold then they are a loser. For you, you aren't a loser nor a winner. Because when Bitcoin is transferred from your wallet, it's no more your. So you might not lose or gain anything logically. Cryptocurrency is most popular for its volatility. So there is no solution unless you convert it immediately after receiving it if you don't wanna take any risk.

^ When it is used to make payment there is no risk. Suppose you hire someone to do a specific job, if his monthly salary is $10k worth of BTC then you have to pay exactly $10k worth of BTC, and the employee gets exactly $10k worth of BTC, there is no loss to any party.

Now let's talk about volatility, don't think of volatility as a problem, look at it as a blessing. If the price of BTC goes down from $60k to $40k then it is a new buying opportunity. Stop selling, keep buying the dip. whatever you have in your holding you buy more at a low price. If the price goes up then sell, there is nothing to lose here.

That's a practical issue with all cryptocurrencies that are market driven. Which makes them a bad choice for transferring value. The seller who is accepting bitcoin against a product, will be either is loss or in profit if he chose to keep that bitcoin without settling for cash.

That's exactly where services like bitpay or polispay comes handy. That enables you to offer crypto payment option to your customers and also settles the same in fiat at the timestamped value.

But this volatility makes bitcoin an investment rather than a currency.

The seller can decide to convert the $60 000 on the same date of the transaction if he/she needs the Fiat currency .... or they can hoard it and wait for the price to reach say... $65 000. So you can win and lose... depending on how you want to play it. 

A lot of merchants make use of Payment processors... and they can tell the payment processor to convert say 80% back t Fiat currencies and to hoard %20 until the price hit a specific price and to decide to sell then. 

Not all. There are certain items that also have volatility like bitcoin. I just think that bitcoin is very compatible with items that are similar in terms of quantity and uniqueness, eg properties, antique or limited edition items. That way, both the seller and the buyer won't care about the volatility of bitcoin during the transaction or in the future. The item will always be worth the bitcoins exchanged.

It also depends on how the seller is looking at it.
If I have something that cost $45000 and sell it to you for 1BTC which as of now is $51000 I can convert most of it to fiat / USD and sit on the rest as an investment.
If it goes up I make even more. If it goes down I make less. No matter what I have converted enough to cover CoGS so it's not a big deal.

It's just like taking any non local fiat for something. If between the time I sell something and take a payment in other then $ (I am US based) I can take a hit. EURO vs USD changes and I sold something to someone in Germany I could take a big hit by the time I get my money.

-Dave

It depends on what the seller chooses to do.
He can keep the bitcoin, hence taking the risk. Bitcoin may be 60k today, 40k tomorrow and 100k one week later. At this point, because of the nature of bitcoin, the seller kinda becomes investor.
But he can also simply sell the bitcoin for fiat or stable coin. And then he didn't lose (nor gained) anything (keep in mind that for Visa/Mastercard processing the seller/shop has to pay a fee, hence it may still not be unprofitable to accept bitcoin)

Also it's expected that at some point in the future the price volatility will decrease greatly (the price will be more stable).

Imagine i buy something today with btc.
With 1 btc.
Today its worthed 60k tomorrow will be 40k.
And can fall down even further so the person who i transfered btc are in loss ?
The volatility is main issue why we cant use never for paying something....or im wrong ?
Or how is the situation here ?