Slovenian crypto tax proposition | Bitcointalksearch.org

zeuner

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Quote from: Daniel91 on November 07, 2021, 07:48:12 AM

Quote from: Lucius on October 30, 2021, 04:51:58 AM

Quote from: yhiaali3 on October 30, 2021, 12:01:40 AM

I hope that the rest of the European Union will take the same approach that Slovenia did.

I sincerely doubt that something like this will happen, when it comes to taxes, each country has its own rules. If EU member states want to create a favorable framework for investing in cryptocurrencies, then they already have several templates used by some EU member states. The point is that politicians in all countries do not have the same level of knowledge and will to regulate this way of investing - and this only contributes to uncertainty and confusion among investors.

Isn't there some judgment of the EU court on cryptocurrencies?
I think I read it somewhere but now I can't find it.

The ECJ has ruled that there is no value added tax imposed when Bitcoin is sold (C-264/14), thereby securing the foundation of Bitcoin being used similarly to stocks or fiat currencies.

When it comes to income tax, I think the member states are still pretty free in the rules they create.

teosanru

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Quote from: matjas on September 03, 2021, 12:47:26 AM

Slovenian government wants to simplify crypto taxation by proposing either 10% tax on converting crypto to fiat/spending on goods and services or alternatively pay 25 % on the profit you make. Amounts up to 15.000 € per year would not have to be reported.

https://www.total-slovenia-news.com/business/8821-slovenia-changes-proposed-cryptocurrency-tax-10-tax-on-amount-sold-of-25-of-profit

This is a great move I think by Slovenia because this tax rate of 10% is quite less if you compare it with normal tax rates in the countries which means people using cryptos would be in a better situation with taxes if they use cryptos instead of using fiat, lately a lot of countries are struggling with crypto taxations so this type of solution can be used by other countries too, but the problem here would lie in enforcement, for conversion into fiat you can obviously trace down with exchanges but if a person pays directly for goods and services there is no way you can find out about this transaction if he decides not to declare it. This can be a pretty easy method of tax evasion. It will be interesting to see how Slovenia enforces this.

Daniel91

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Quote from: Lucius on October 30, 2021, 04:51:58 AM

Quote from: yhiaali3 on October 30, 2021, 12:01:40 AM

I hope that the rest of the European Union will take the same approach that Slovenia did.

I sincerely doubt that something like this will happen, when it comes to taxes, each country has its own rules. If EU member states want to create a favorable framework for investing in cryptocurrencies, then they already have several templates used by some EU member states. The point is that politicians in all countries do not have the same level of knowledge and will to regulate this way of investing - and this only contributes to uncertainty and confusion among investors.

Isn't there some judgment of the EU court on cryptocurrencies?
I think I read it somewhere but now I can't find it.
In fact, in my opinion, it would be logical for the European Central Bank and the EU Council to give an official opinion on cryptocurrencies and then for all EU countries to implement it in their tax and other laws and regulations.
A lot of things are very well regulated in the EU, there are many rules and regulations, but there is no official decision for cryptocurrencies yet, which is a bit unusual.
I really like the Slovenian proposal on cryptocurrencies and I hope that something similar will become a reality in other EU countries, such as Croatia, but I am not optimistic.

Lucius

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on October 30, 2021, 12:01:40 AM

I hope that the rest of the European Union will take the same approach that Slovenia did.

I sincerely doubt that something like this will happen, when it comes to taxes, each country has its own rules. If EU member states want to create a favorable framework for investing in cryptocurrencies, then they already have several templates used by some EU member states. The point is that politicians in all countries do not have the same level of knowledge and will to regulate this way of investing - and this only contributes to uncertainty and confusion among investors.

yhiaali3

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I see that 10% on converting cryptocurrency into money or spending on goods and services is fair and good for ordinary citizens, especially since this tax will not be imposed on amounts less than 15,000$. In my opinion, this will encourage the spread of cryptocurrencies in Slovenia and will be beneficial for both parties. The government and the investors, the government will get the taxes and the investors will work freely under the auspices of the regulations. I hope that the rest of the European Union will take the same approach that Slovenia did.

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Quote from: sikke on September 23, 2021, 07:27:37 PM

Love this.

I think that simple, low taxes for cryptos will enforce more compliance and could actually lead to more profits in the long run for the government.

The threshold for reporting is something that every government around the world should trial as well, because that would significantly reduce people's anxieties for record keeping.

I think this is simply a support to cryptocurrency, is a mode of soft adoption for crypto as it gives a soft landing in taxing. This sure will encourage hodling and will lead people in Slovenia to hodl more of cryptocurrency than fiat because of the low tax in cryptocurrency and conversion of fiat will be more in the region.

sikke

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Love this.

I think that simple, low taxes for cryptos will enforce more compliance and could actually lead to more profits in the long run for the government.

The threshold for reporting is something that every government around the world should trial as well, because that would significantly reduce people's anxieties for record keeping.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: zeuner on September 23, 2021, 04:14:48 AM

Quote from: matjas on September 03, 2021, 12:47:26 AM

or alternatively pay 25 % on the profit you make.

Depending on how the profit is defined, there can still be quite some complexity.

Yep, but the only way is on declaring it out if you dont like some problems later on.Just like on how strict USA when it comes to taxation. 25% is really not really that appealing or way too much though.

10% on tax on making up conversion is a bit reasonable though but speaking overall with taxation then it is something that everybody should be obliged but for sure there are lots of ways for you
to evade such thing.

Taxation is something better rather than on completely banning it compared in other countries which do make outright decisions.

zeuner

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Quote from: matjas on September 03, 2021, 12:47:26 AM

or alternatively pay 25 % on the profit you make.

Depending on how the profit is defined, there can still be quite some complexity.

stompix

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Quote from: SFR10 on September 05, 2021, 07:35:23 AM

~
Not sure about the current BTM fees in there, but this would probably lead to an increase in BTM fees, as opposed to halting the operations.

BTM fees will probably stay the same because the tax will be paid by the user independently the next year when he fills his tax form, so unlike with VAT which is directly applied to the products you buy, BTM operators will have no clue what the buyer will (if!) pay and what his true costs will be.
As for their value, I see the usual 5%, so it will bite a bit, there is no point in trying to hide small sums as now you're already lawfully in the clear, little incentive to use them, that's why I said they will probably lose a lot of customers, why pay the extra for nothing?

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Quote from: dkbit98 on September 05, 2021, 08:08:22 AM

First they filled Slovenia with atms and shops that accept Bitcoin, and now they are increasing taxes... it seems like a wicked plan by government parasites.
For anyone that if not familiar, Slovenia is probably one of the countries with biggest adoption of cryptocurrencies in Europe, you can use crypto everywhere in many shops.
They even have their own company for creating payment network Elly - Eligma GoCrypto that was sadly purchased by Roger Ver or he invested a lot of money in that, and they plan expansion to whole world.
I am not going to suggest anyone to pay or avoid paying taxes, but p2p trading in person is always available option Wink

The fact that the government will only tax once a user turns his crypto to fiat means, your stash of coins is safe until it's converted. If you live in a country, you have the responsibility to pay tax and I think 10% is considerate and fair.

It's not fair for the rich crypto trader. So wealthy guys won't get away anymore with not paying tax if this is automated that before the money come out of the ATM, the tax will be subtracted already?

tz

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This is much more reasonable than other countries.

I think that this is fair to all parties involved. You don't need to report if the size of the transactions are minuscule and therefore not even worth the time of the tax authorities to look over, and if you do report the system is simple enough that you don't need to spend hours looking through records and working with your accountant.

One of the rare examples of tax policy done right.

dkbit98

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First they filled Slovenia with atms and shops that accept Bitcoin, and now they are increasing taxes... it seems like a wicked plan by government parasites.
For anyone that if not familiar, Slovenia is probably one of the countries with biggest adoption of cryptocurrencies in Europe, you can use crypto everywhere in many shops.
They even have their own company for creating payment network Elly - Eligma GoCrypto that was sadly purchased by Roger Ver or he invested a lot of money in that, and they plan expansion to whole world.
I am not going to suggest anyone to pay or avoid paying taxes, but p2p trading in person is always available option Wink

SFR10

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Quote from: matjas on September 03, 2021, 12:47:26 AM

or alternatively pay 25 % on the profit you make.

In regards to anyone that chooses the above option while receiving their wages in cryptocurrencies, what will happen if they immediately convert it to fiat ^{[little to no profit]}? No tax ^{[apart from the €15k limit]}?

Quote from: stompix on September 03, 2021, 05:54:51 AM

The 10% on cashing out probably means the end of any ATMs there, adding with their usual 5%-10% fee it will probably send a lot of sellers in the loss sector if that 10% is calculated on the base value that has been converted.

Not sure about the current BTM fees in there, but this would probably lead to an increase in BTM fees, as opposed to halting the operations.

UKprod

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This is a very good move, though it means a lot of taxes; especially in an era where some countries are planning on banning the cryptocurrencies, it is good to see a country that is ready to accept cryptocurrencies and tax it, making it legitimate in their country. Also, the limit is good enough to avoid taxing low usage of crypto.

jossiel

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No tax for 15,000 Euro is already a lot per year. Someone can simplify and lower his expenses in crypto purchases if he wants to avail that benefit of having no tax.

Otherwise, huge spenders and those people that earns more will surely be fine with that imposed taxation.

bitcoin_user

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25% tax, not really a tax heaven but still better than a lot of countries in the UE (except Portugal but how long will it stay...)

suzanne5223

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I am starting to believe what the Slovenian president said about his country not abandoned liberal democracy only a respectable government will say the amount up to EUR 15,000 will not be taxed or reported as cryptocurrency taxation is a concern and with this procedure, Slovenia get the attention of crypto enthusiasts and more business will consider receiving crypto as payment.

wissy

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That 15.000 € per year really is a surprising exception since you now need to report interests from banks fiat saving accounts if they are higher than 1000 € per year.
This new crypto law would indeed be good for long time holders.

stompix

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The best part is this:

Quote from: Lucius on September 03, 2021, 05:00:48 AM

I especially like that 10% proposal to convert to fiat or pay for goods/services which actually means that the tax is fully automated, there is no paperwork, and every crypto -> fiat transaction is taxed.

No, it will not be automated, you will still have to complete a tax file for the previous year, it's just that now you have the option of simply declaring 6000 EUROs in purchases or the same in profit and not having to deal with every single transaction you made as before.

Lucius

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I especially like that 10% proposal to convert to fiat or pay for goods/services which actually means that the tax is fully automated, there is no paperwork, and every crypto -> fiat transaction is taxed. It is also good news that amounts up to EUR 15 000 do not need to be reported and will not be taxed, which is great news for ordinary people - but also to emphasize that this bill applies only to physical persons who are Slovenian citizens.

It would be interesting to see what the EU thinks about this, and whether some other countries may apply a similar model in the future - although there are already 0% tax laws in Germany and Croatia that apply to crypto-assets sold 1 or 2 years after purchase.

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Quote from: matjas on September 03, 2021, 12:47:26 AM

Slovenian government wants to simplify crypto taxation by proposing either 10% tax on converting crypto to fiat/spending on goods and services or alternatively pay 25 % on the profit you make. Amounts up to 15.000 € per year would not have to be reported.

https://www.total-slovenia-news.com/business/8821-slovenia-changes-proposed-cryptocurrency-tax-10-tax-on-amount-sold-of-25-of-profit

At least from the first look, I find it the first fair proposal for taxing cypto.
Well done, Slovenia, now get to transform it from proposal to actual law without destroying it.

matjas

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Slovenian government wants to simplify crypto taxation by proposing either 10% tax on converting crypto to fiat/spending on goods and services or alternatively pay 25 % on the profit you make. Amounts up to 15.000 € per year would not have to be reported.

https://www.total-slovenia-news.com/business/8821-slovenia-changes-proposed-cryptocurrency-tax-10-tax-on-amount-sold-of-25-of-profit

Topic: Slovenian crypto tax proposition (Read 266 times)