Small negative house edge - page 7. | Bitcointalksearch.org

patt0

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Quote from: tee-rex on March 24, 2015, 05:38:40 AM

Quote from: GannickusX on March 24, 2015, 05:34:01 AM

i said you are betting 0.001 per bet with no increase, didnt you even read what i said? ofc implies that you gain profits and if everyone did that everyone would win

and if the house edge is lower just calculate how much you would win in that case but its the same thing

How on earth are you going to make 1 million (that is 10 million) bets, if there would be no automatic betting allowed? Could they earn more while you are there making 10 million bets? One bet per second would take you years to get there.

It doesn't matter, I think. You would have a lot of players in the casino, and the edge would make the house lose one way or the other. : /
I don't think anyone would keep a casino with this edge for a long time and stay in business.

GannickusX

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Quote from: tee-rex on March 24, 2015, 05:38:40 AM

Quote from: GannickusX on March 24, 2015, 05:34:01 AM

i said you are betting 0.001 per bet with no increase, didnt you even read what i said? ofc implies that you gain profits and if everyone did that everyone would win

and if the house edge is lower just calculate how much you would win in that case but its the same thing

How are you going to make 1 million (that is 10 million) bets, if there would be no automatic betting allowed? Could they earn more while you are there making 10 million bets? One bet per second would take you years to get there.

Download an autoclicker and let it click all day? You could make 45k bets per day.

Coef

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Quote from: deisik on March 24, 2015, 05:06:15 AM

It is accepted by most here that a positive house edge will ultimately wipe out your deposit (rather sooner than later). But we could try to look at this issue from another angle. That is, whether the house is predetermined to lose in the long run if it had a negative house edge? As I see it, a positive house edge doesn't guarantee per se that a casino won't suffer heavy losses, but why should it necessarily suffer them if it had a small negative edge (to attract new users)? In other words, how long will it take till we see a casino claiming just that?

I've never seen a mention of the negative house edge here, so I decided to create a new topic on this issue (and added a poll)

When you play on a 1% edge site, the site owner is actually taking the same bet but with a 1% +EV.
Will the site owner lose some bets? Surely they will.
Will the site owner go bankrupt? Very unlikely as long as he has a good bankroll management.

For the same token, if there is a negative house edge (+EV to the player) site, the players will very likely get a good profit as long as they bet according to the kelly formula.

tee-rex

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Quote from: GannickusX on March 24, 2015, 05:34:01 AM

i said you are betting 0.001 per bet with no increase, didnt you even read what i said? ofc implies that you gain profits and if everyone did that everyone would win

and if the house edge is lower just calculate how much you would win in that case but its the same thing

How on earth are you going to make 1 million (that is 10 million) bets, if there would be no automatic betting allowed? Could they earn more while you are there making 10 million bets? One bet per second would take you years to get there.

NeuroticFish

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Casinos that want to promote themselves seem do zero house edge (for limited time?). Negative will not happen for quite some while.

Zero house edge means "you can enter for free".
Negative house edge means "beer is on the house".

It's a risk nobody wants to take now. And do you know why? Simple: there's not enough competition yet.

GannickusX

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Quote from: deisik on March 24, 2015, 05:32:04 AM

Quote from: GannickusX on March 24, 2015, 05:24:52 AM

If the house edge is negative just bet static bets, lets say 0.001 bets all the time

With a chance of 51% of win you would eventually reach that chance and for example in 1 million bets

you would win 510.000 and lose 490.000 bets

wich means that you won 20.000 bets more than loses 20.000 x 0.001 = 20 bitcoins

1% negative house edge seems to be a little overkill to me. Actually, I was thinking in the range of about 0.05-0.1% negative house edge. Small enough to last longer, and large enough to attract users from other dice sites. Furthermore, if you win 510.000 bets (and lose 490.000), this in no case implies that you gain profits unless you bet tiny amounts. But this loss on the casino part could be offset by bigger wins (dice sites still give out bonuses)...

i said you are betting 0.001 per bet with no increase, didnt you even read what i said? ofc implies that you gain profits and if everyone did that everyone would win

and if the house edge is lower just calculate how much you would win in that case but its the same thing

deisik

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Quote from: GannickusX on March 24, 2015, 05:24:52 AM

If the house edge is negative just bet static bets, lets say 0.001 bets all the time

With a chance of 51% of win you would eventually reach that chance and for example in 1 million bets

you would win 510.000 and lose 490.000 bets

wich means that you won 20.000 bets more than loses 20.000 x 0.001 = 20 bitcoins

1% negative house edge seems to be a little overkill to me. Actually, I was thinking in the range of about 0.05-0.1% negative house edge. Small enough to last longer, and large enough to attract users from other dice sites. Furthermore, if you win 510.000 bets (and lose 490.000), this in no case implies that you gain profits unless you bet tiny amounts. But this loss on the casino part could be offset by bigger wins (dice sites still give out a lot of bonuses)...

pthnmj

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You realize.. -EV is bad for the USER.. and +EV (house edge) is bad for the casino?

GannickusX

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If the house edge is negative just bet static bets, lets say 0.001 bets all the time

With a chance of 51% of win you would eventually reach that chance and for example in 1 million bets

you would win 510.000 and lose 490.000 bets

wich means that you won 20.000 bets more than loses 20.000 x 0.001 = 20 bitcoins

patt0

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Quote from: deisik on March 24, 2015, 05:06:15 AM

It is accepted by most here that a positive house edge will ultimately wipe out your deposit (rather sooner than later). But we could try to look at this issue from another angle. That is, whether the house is predetermined to lose in the long run if it had a negative house edge? As I see it, a positive house edge doesn't guarantee per se that a casino won't suffer heavy losses, but why should it necessarily suffer them if it had a small negative edge (to attract new users)? In other words, how long will it take till we see a casino claiming just that?

I've never seen a mention of the negative house edge here, so I decided to create a new topic on this issue

I don't think a negative house edge makes sense. : /
A positive house edge doesn't guarantee that the casino won't lose some times, but if it has no bugs players can use and a big bankroll in relation to the bets, it will win in the end, I think. A negative house edge would attract more players, but the house would eventually lose more times than win. Even if a lot of money would be coming into the casino, more would be leaving. Maybe it would be more like a ponzi then lol.

deisik

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It is accepted by most here that a positive house edge will ultimately wipe out your deposit (rather sooner than later). But we could try to look at this issue from another angle. That is, whether the house is predetermined to lose in the long run if it had a negative house edge? As I see it, a positive house edge doesn't guarantee per se that a casino won't suffer heavy losses, but why should it necessarily suffer them if it had a small negative edge (to attract new users)? In other words, how long will it take till we see a casino claiming just that?

I've never seen a mention of the negative house edge here, so I decided to create a new topic on this issue (and added a poll)

Small (yeah) update: since people don't even bother to read the poll question carefully, I specifically point out that I mean a small negative edge (in absolute value indeed). If that still doesn't get through, think tiny!

Updated the topic subject as well

Topic: Small negative house edge - page 7. (Read 6066 times)