So much for PoS from PoW for ETH | Bitcointalksearch.org

FP91G

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 11, 2022, 04:47:36 AM

Quote from: FP91G on December 11, 2022, 04:13:30 AM

In fact, there are already a lot of these solutions and I saw the first working projects more than 5 years ago. I think it's easy to find on the internet. The amount of heat generated depends on the amount of mining equipment, but this project requires additional costs, which is not always beneficial.

That's right, I think the cost of installing this type of solution is too expensive for the benefit. If it is to heat the water in a swimming pool, it can be used, but I think it would be too expensive for the efficiency generated. I find it more efficient to use this heat to heat the environment/house than to heat water.

You need to calculate how much money you pay for heating the water in the pool, and how many miners you need to get the same result. If you have video cards, then water cooling for each will be expensive, it is cheaper to immerse video cards in a special liquid that will transfer heat to water through a radiator. But I think that 99% of miners will not do this.

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 12, 2022, 02:50:15 PM

Quote from: arielbit on December 12, 2022, 11:00:42 AM

Worst case scenario if the water is warm just 30 degrees max performance, your electric heater will not use 3000w of heating power, just 1000w because at low settings the water is already 40 degrees. That's 2000w savings.

It really can make it easier to reduce water heater consumption. But even so, water will hardly come out of close to the miners at 40 degrees, unless the tubes pass really close to the chips.

Following our conversation about plants, I found this news very interesting. Where in the Netherlands a tulip producer in partnership with a bitcoin miner, the greenhouses are heated:
https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/12/a-bitcoin-miner-and-tulip-grower-team-up-to-reduce-costs

Wow and the news is just December 12, very fresh.

I guess my water heater theories will remain theories without application/experimentation and computation. Letting it pass directly at chips is so much trouble, cost, and hassle, it was never an option.

At best, savings for bath heater, you still want to install electric heater either way because if you temporarily lost internet then you freeze in the shower LOL, things happen.

joker_josue

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Quote from: arielbit on December 12, 2022, 11:00:42 AM

Worst case scenario if the water is warm just 30 degrees max performance, your electric heater will not use 3000w of heating power, just 1000w because at low settings the water is already 40 degrees. That's 2000w savings.

It really can make it easier to reduce water heater consumption. But even so, water will hardly come out of close to the miners at 40 degrees, unless the tubes pass really close to the chips.

Following our conversation about plants, I found this news very interesting. Where in the Netherlands a tulip producer in partnership with a bitcoin miner, the greenhouses are heated:
https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/12/a-bitcoin-miner-and-tulip-grower-team-up-to-reduce-costs

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 12, 2022, 03:06:17 AM

Quote from: arielbit on December 11, 2022, 10:39:15 PM

60 degrees?, do you use that hot water alone or mix it with cold? 50 degrees is already hot, for me around 40 degrees is ideal, around body temp.

Anyway, a typical shower heater is around 6000w, maybe miners that pulls at least double like12000w can deliver that heat, it is not efficient(heating-wise) but heat is just a by product, a farm with at least 70-100 cards might do it. Remember the solar solution are just tubes, and it can get as hot as a roof top in a mining room, sometimes it is even hotter than roof tops, also mining rooms deliver near constant heat unlike roof tops.

Size do matter as a storage, that's what water boiler tanks used to do, store hot water before the electric shower heater became the new standard.

Yes, 60 degrees in the tank or at the water heater outlet. Because then the water will run through some more tubes that will cool the water. When you get to the shower, the water should be around 40 degrees.

I am not questioning the power of the miners, capable of heating water, what I am saying is that in order to heat the water effectively, the water had to pass very close to the chips. That's where the heat is. If they pass 20 or 30 centimeters away, they will only catch the air emitted by the miner, who will walk at around 40 degrees. Which will be insufficient to heat water effectively.

Bigger tubes then let the water rotate through the piping that would reduce the temp(60-40), then those pipes will eventually heat up and then they won't absorb much of the heat before bathing, those pipes should be plastic(not a very good conductor of heat) but still the pipes beside the miners are metal.

Worst case scenario if the water is warm just 30 degrees max performance, your electric heater will not use 3000w of heating power, just 1000w because at low settings the water is already 40 degrees. That's 2000w savings.

joker_josue

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Quote from: arielbit on December 11, 2022, 10:39:15 PM

60 degrees?, do you use that hot water alone or mix it with cold? 50 degrees is already hot, for me around 40 degrees is ideal, around body temp.

Anyway, a typical shower heater is around 6000w, maybe miners that pulls at least double like12000w can deliver that heat, it is not efficient(heating-wise) but heat is just a by product, a farm with at least 70-100 cards might do it. Remember the solar solution are just tubes, and it can get as hot as a roof top in a mining room, sometimes it is even hotter than roof tops, also mining rooms deliver near constant heat unlike roof tops.

Size do matter as a storage, that's what water boiler tanks used to do, store hot water before the electric shower heater became the new standard.

Yes, 60 degrees in the tank or at the water heater outlet. Because then the water will run through some more tubes that will cool the water. When you get to the shower, the water should be around 40 degrees.

I am not questioning the power of the miners, capable of heating water, what I am saying is that in order to heat the water effectively, the water had to pass very close to the chips. That's where the heat is. If they pass 20 or 30 centimeters away, they will only catch the air emitted by the miner, who will walk at around 40 degrees. Which will be insufficient to heat water effectively.

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 11, 2022, 07:49:40 PM

Quote from: arielbit on December 11, 2022, 08:22:17 AM

Change parameters, 2 or 3 inch pipe and reduce flow rate. This will make more storage(pipe size), and the flow rate will make the water more hot, reduce the pipe at the exit to maybe 1/4 inch and use a smaller pump.

Maybe when the mining racks are placed besides the tubes then it will make the pipes hotter.

Now, you said it will generate lower heat than most heater, maybe not hot enough to kill plants if you go with the grow lights/indoor garden application.

Heating water is one thing, heating the environment is another.

It is not the size of the tubes or their length that will make the difference. It may help to raise the temperature a bit, but you need to receive more than 60 degrees of temperature to get hot water for a bath. Unless it's all next to each other. Even so, the cold water entering the plumbing would not heat up enough to be useful in a bath.

I don't know if you know, but for example, the evacuated tube solar collectors, used to heat water using the energy of the sun, need to work almost close to 100 degrees, to be able to heat the water that passes through the pipe so that it stays with a few 60 degrees.

Already heating the environment is all easier. Tropic plants live in temperatures around 30~40 degrees, this is the normal temperature generated by miners. You just have to wait to heat the space to that temperature, which it will naturally maintain.

60 degrees?, do you use that hot water alone or mix it with cold? 50 degrees is already hot, for me around 40 degrees is ideal, around body temp.

Anyway, a typical shower heater is around 6000w, maybe miners that pulls at least double like12000w can deliver that heat, it is not efficient(heating-wise) but heat is just a by product, a farm with at least 70-100 cards might do it. Remember the solar solution are just tubes, and it can get as hot as a roof top in a mining room, sometimes it is even hotter than roof tops, also mining rooms deliver near constant heat unlike roof tops.

Size do matter as a storage, that's what water boiler tanks used to do, store hot water before the electric shower heater became the new standard.

joker_josue

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Quote from: arielbit on December 11, 2022, 08:22:17 AM

Change parameters, 2 or 3 inch pipe and reduce flow rate. This will make more storage(pipe size), and the flow rate will make the water more hot, reduce the pipe at the exit to maybe 1/4 inch and use a smaller pump.

Maybe when the mining racks are placed besides the tubes then it will make the pipes hotter.

Now, you said it will generate lower heat than most heater, maybe not hot enough to kill plants if you go with the grow lights/indoor garden application.

Heating water is one thing, heating the environment is another.

It is not the size of the tubes or their length that will make the difference. It may help to raise the temperature a bit, but you need to receive more than 60 degrees of temperature to get hot water for a bath. Unless it's all next to each other. Even so, the cold water entering the plumbing would not heat up enough to be useful in a bath.

I don't know if you know, but for example, the evacuated tube solar collectors, used to heat water using the energy of the sun, need to work almost close to 100 degrees, to be able to heat the water that passes through the pipe so that it stays with a few 60 degrees.

Already heating the environment is all easier. Tropic plants live in temperatures around 30~40 degrees, this is the normal temperature generated by miners. You just have to wait to heat the space to that temperature, which it will naturally maintain.

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 11, 2022, 05:44:00 AM

Quote from: arielbit on December 11, 2022, 05:24:28 AM

You both lack imagination LOL,

Pick a wall

Take a 1inch lead pipe make, a "U" where you reach the otherside of the wall and the return to the other side, then a "U" again...left-right-right-left.. Until the top to bottom of the wall is filled with lead pipe.(or any metal pipe, copper if you can).

Then make a loop with water like a car radiator but here the radiator absorbs heat from the room, more like a huge heatsink.

If you touch a cement wall of a mining room it is uncomfortably warm, that is what those metal pipes are going to absorb, law of thermodynamics will make the heat transfer more from the environment to the pipe because the pipe is colder and the water inside transports heat to the other side of the wall where the heat is needed, or we can also say the colder room transfers cold thru the metal pipes to the hotter room.

But do you think that the heat generated will be enough to heat water? If the water is still, yes, but if it is flowing, no.
Don't forget that the miners' 60 degrees temperature is next to the chips and not in the surrounding air. Each miner should release about 30~40 degrees into the air. Therefore, unless the tubes pass next to the chips, the generated air will hardly be enough to significantly heat water. Water can be warm, but not hot for a good bath.

EDIT:
Actually a car radiator has the same method, but the water pipes pass right next to the engine, which is working at more than 80 degrees.

EDIT 2:
Take, for example, the water heater for the bath. It has to be heated to 40~50 degrees, so that when you get to the shower, you have the ideal temperature for a good shower. And we are talking about direct flame in the tube. If the air in the room is at that temperature, it hardly heats water.

Change parameters, 2 or 3 inch pipe and reduce flow rate. This will make more storage(pipe size), and the flow rate will make the water more hot, reduce the pipe at the exit to maybe 1/4 inch and use a smaller pump.

Maybe when the mining racks are placed besides the tubes then it will make the pipes hotter.

Now, you said it will generate lower heat than most heater, maybe not hot enough to kill plants if you go with the grow lights/indoor garden application.

joker_josue

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Quote from: arielbit on December 11, 2022, 05:24:28 AM

You both lack imagination LOL,

Pick a wall

Take a 1inch lead pipe make, a "U" where you reach the otherside of the wall and the return to the other side, then a "U" again...left-right-right-left.. Until the top to bottom of the wall is filled with lead pipe.(or any metal pipe, copper if you can).

Then make a loop with water like a car radiator but here the radiator absorbs heat from the room, more like a huge heatsink.

If you touch a cement wall of a mining room it is uncomfortably warm, that is what those metal pipes are going to absorb, law of thermodynamics will make the heat transfer more from the environment to the pipe because the pipe is colder and the water inside transports heat to the other side of the wall where the heat is needed, or we can also say the colder room transfers cold thru the metal pipes to the hotter room.

But do you think that the heat generated will be enough to heat water? If the water is still, yes, but if it is flowing, no.
Don't forget that the miners' 60 degrees temperature is next to the chips and not in the surrounding air. Each miner should release about 30~40 degrees into the air. Therefore, unless the tubes pass next to the chips, the generated air will hardly be enough to significantly heat water. Water can be warm, but not hot for a good bath.

EDIT:
Actually a car radiator has the same method, but the water pipes pass right next to the engine, which is working at more than 80 degrees.

EDIT 2:
Take, for example, the water heater for the bath. It has to be heated to 40~50 degrees, so that when you get to the shower, you have the ideal temperature for a good shower. And we are talking about direct flame in the tube. If the air in the room is at that temperature, it hardly heats water.

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 11, 2022, 04:47:36 AM

Quote from: FP91G on December 11, 2022, 04:13:30 AM

In fact, there are already a lot of these solutions and I saw the first working projects more than 5 years ago. I think it's easy to find on the internet. The amount of heat generated depends on the amount of mining equipment, but this project requires additional costs, which is not always beneficial.

That's right, I think the cost of installing this type of solution is too expensive for the benefit. If it is to heat the water in a swimming pool, it can be used, but I think it would be too expensive for the efficiency generated. I find it more efficient to use this heat to heat the environment/house than to heat water.

You both lack imagination LOL,

Pick a wall

Take a 1inch lead pipe make, a "U" where you reach the otherside of the wall and the return to the other side, then a "U" again...left-right-right-left.. Until the top to bottom of the wall is filled with lead pipe.(or any metal pipe, copper if you can).

Then make a loop with water like a car radiator but here the radiator absorbs heat from the room, more like a huge heatsink.

If you touch a cement wall of a mining room it is uncomfortably warm, that is what those metal pipes are going to absorb, law of thermodynamics will make the heat transfer more from the environment to the pipe because the pipe is colder and the water inside transports heat to the other side of the wall where the heat is needed, or we can also say the colder room transfers cold thru the metal pipes to the hotter room.

joker_josue

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Quote from: FP91G on December 11, 2022, 04:13:30 AM

In fact, there are already a lot of these solutions and I saw the first working projects more than 5 years ago. I think it's easy to find on the internet. The amount of heat generated depends on the amount of mining equipment, but this project requires additional costs, which is not always beneficial.

That's right, I think the cost of installing this type of solution is too expensive for the benefit. If it is to heat the water in a swimming pool, it can be used, but I think it would be too expensive for the efficiency generated. I find it more efficient to use this heat to heat the environment/house than to heat water.

FP91G

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 10, 2022, 12:53:38 PM

Quote from: FP91G on December 10, 2022, 08:27:00 AM

The easiest way to use the heat from mining is for space heating or water heating. This will be a very simple and reliable system that does not require much knowledge from the operating personnel. And the more complex and expensive the system, the more problems in the future.

Water heating?
I don't see how the heat from mining will be enough to heat water. Only if it's on a small scale.

Do you know of any concrete reports about this that you can share?

In fact, there are already a lot of these solutions and I saw the first working projects more than 5 years ago. I think it's easy to find on the internet. The amount of heat generated depends on the amount of mining equipment, but this project requires additional costs, which is not always beneficial.

joker_josue

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Quote from: JayDDee on December 10, 2022, 03:19:46 PM

It's hard to find a balance when there are requirements at both ends. You want effective cooling of the equipment and useful heat byproduct.
You can usually only do one effectively. The heat byproduct can be used as a secondary heat source. One example is a drone water tank
that warms water before going into the heated tank. Most drone tanks just use ambient heat to warm the ground water but a little extra
boost from mining waste heat can't hurt. An aquarium or swimming pool might also be a good use.

Of course, we can't want to take full advantage of two things. Either we have one or the other, both at the same time is difficult.

Now, I have some doubts about the efficiency of mining to heat water, especially in small miners.
Large mining centers, yes the heat generated could be useful for water heating.

JayDDee

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 10, 2022, 12:53:38 PM

Quote from: FP91G on December 10, 2022, 08:27:00 AM

The easiest way to use the heat from mining is for space heating or water heating. This will be a very simple and reliable system that does not require much knowledge from the operating personnel. And the more complex and expensive the system, the more problems in the future.

Water heating?
I don't see how the heat from mining will be enough to heat water. Only if it's on a small scale.

Do you know of any concrete reports about this that you can share?

It's hard to find a balance when there are requirements at both ends. You want effective cooling of the equipment and useful heat byproduct.
You can usually only do one effectively. The heat byproduct can be used as a secondary heat source. One example is a drone water tank
that warms water before going into the heated tank. Most drone tanks just use ambient heat to warm the ground water but a little extra
boost from mining waste heat can't hurt. An aquarium or swimming pool might also be a good use.

joker_josue

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Quote from: FP91G on December 10, 2022, 08:27:00 AM

The easiest way to use the heat from mining is for space heating or water heating. This will be a very simple and reliable system that does not require much knowledge from the operating personnel. And the more complex and expensive the system, the more problems in the future.

Water heating?
I don't see how the heat from mining will be enough to heat water. Only if it's on a small scale.

Do you know of any concrete reports about this that you can share?

FP91G

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Quote from: halalsolutions on December 09, 2022, 02:53:26 AM

And here we are ; )
Based on the ARMedOne we are going to offer IT-Containers and small IT-Tresors
The heat created inside has to be taken out. By having the hardware in its own „atmosphere“ but taking heat out we go around the humidity problem.

The easiest way to use the heat from mining is for space heating or water heating. This will be a very simple and reliable system that does not require much knowledge from the operating personnel. And the more complex and expensive the system, the more problems in the future.

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 09, 2022, 02:56:57 AM

Quote from: JayDDee on December 08, 2022, 06:29:43 PM

When I was in school a classmate's parents ran a flower shop and he, being a computer geek, convinced them to sell PCs as well.
But plants like high humidity, computers don't. It's good to try to use the heat from mining in a useful way but mining in a hothouse
is not a good idea. The issue with growing in winter is the lack of sunlight so grow lights are needed and they also produce heat.

Any equipment that generates heat (electric) does not like humidity. It is true that there are equipment that are prepared for this type of scenario, obviously.
In this type of case, which we are talking about here, the mining equipment would have to be in a separate room from the plants, but with the generated heat directed towards the plant room. But I agree that the idea will not be the most efficient for effective plant production.

But I remember a few years ago, having read a news story about a mining farm that consumed energy clandestinely, which was discovered by the police, because the police thought that the facilities were used for the production of drugs, due to the heat generated and consumed energy.

If you search the internet, there are business in tropical countries where they grew in containers non tropical plants with AC, AC removes humidity and can dry plants but they did it. Now the inverted version of this is "heating".

I bet humidity can be introduced, there are humidifier appliances BTW, misting can also increase humidity, and yes you grew them at a separate room where the heat eminates from the mining room.

They grew them in the heart of the city, customers are restaurants.

The business was feasible because the logistics of transporting those plants from far away cost more, besides the quality and freshness of plants grown in a very close location is the selling point.

joker_josue

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Quote from: JayDDee on December 08, 2022, 06:29:43 PM

When I was in school a classmate's parents ran a flower shop and he, being a computer geek, convinced them to sell PCs as well.
But plants like high humidity, computers don't. It's good to try to use the heat from mining in a useful way but mining in a hothouse
is not a good idea. The issue with growing in winter is the lack of sunlight so grow lights are needed and they also produce heat.

Any equipment that generates heat (electric) does not like humidity. It is true that there are equipment that are prepared for this type of scenario, obviously.
In this type of case, which we are talking about here, the mining equipment would have to be in a separate room from the plants, but with the generated heat directed towards the plant room. But I agree that the idea will not be the most efficient for effective plant production.

But I remember a few years ago, having read a news story about a mining farm that consumed energy clandestinely, which was discovered by the police, because the police thought that the facilities were used for the production of drugs, due to the heat generated and consumed energy.

halalsolutions

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And here we are ; )
Based on the ARMedOne we are going to offer IT-Containers and small IT-Tresors
The heat created inside has to be taken out. By having the hardware in its own „atmosphere“ but taking heat out we go around the humidity problem.

JayDDee

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 08, 2022, 06:04:41 PM

Quote from: arielbit on December 08, 2022, 02:17:03 PM

If your temp becomes an ideal growing temp to some plant that is expensive there because you are in a cold climate or because the plant is grown in hotter season, maybe it is feasible to become a gpu farmer and an exotic/off season plant farmer at the same time, with a niche market for hotels and expensive restaurants.

You won't worry anymore with bear markets if you can pull that off LOL

Despite being funny, the idea itself is not entirely unreasonable.
Has any miner thought of that and is selling tropical plants as extra income? Roll Eyes

If there is someone doing this, I would like to know its history, it must be very interesting.

When I was in school a classmate's parents ran a flower shop and he, being a computer geek, convinced them to sell PCs as well.
But plants like high humidity, computers don't. It's good to try to use the heat from mining in a useful way but mining in a hothouse
is not a good idea. The issue with growing in winter is the lack of sunlight so grow lights are needed and they also produce heat.

joker_josue

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Quote from: arielbit on December 08, 2022, 02:17:03 PM

If your temp becomes an ideal growing temp to some plant that is expensive there because you are in a cold climate or because the plant is grown in hotter season, maybe it is feasible to become a gpu farmer and an exotic/off season plant farmer at the same time, with a niche market for hotels and expensive restaurants.

You won't worry anymore with bear markets if you can pull that off LOL

Despite being funny, the idea itself is not entirely unreasonable.
Has any miner thought of that and is selling tropical plants as extra income? Roll Eyes

If there is someone doing this, I would like to know its history, it must be very interesting.

arielbit

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Quote from: swogerino on December 08, 2022, 07:57:43 AM

Quote from: arielbit on December 07, 2022, 11:22:19 PM

Quote from: FP91G on December 07, 2022, 06:37:39 AM

It depends on how long summer is in your country. If you have 4 months of summer, then in the remaining 8 months, growing food will be very difficult, trumpeting time and good skills. You can buy a house in the village and take care of your own garden when the profit from mining is enough to live on, but now everything has changed.

Grow lights changes the game, maybe the heat from miners can reduce temp in a certain area to reach an ideal growing temp.

Coins mined has value, not getting sick has value too, most people are just taking health for granted.

I am mining at home now in winter and I must say I am only running half of the rig because that is more than enough to mine ETHW which has a really low difficulty right now and by doing so I have not at all turned on the air conditioner except maybe 30 minutes maximum in the morning and 30 minutes as maximum in the evening,that is a huge savings on the bill which an air conditioner like the one I have consumes at the beginning 3000 watt and then when the inverter pulls in like 800-900 watt compared to my half mining rig at 350 watt as a maximum consumption,so I got basically some free heating by doing so.

If your temp becomes an ideal growing temp to some plant that is expensive there because you are in a cold climate or because the plant is grown in hotter season, maybe it is feasible to become a gpu farmer and an exotic/off season plant farmer at the same time, with a niche market for hotels and expensive restaurants.

You won't worry anymore with bear markets if you can pull that off LOL

swogerino

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Quote from: arielbit on December 07, 2022, 11:22:19 PM

Quote from: FP91G on December 07, 2022, 06:37:39 AM

It depends on how long summer is in your country. If you have 4 months of summer, then in the remaining 8 months, growing food will be very difficult, trumpeting time and good skills. You can buy a house in the village and take care of your own garden when the profit from mining is enough to live on, but now everything has changed.

Grow lights changes the game, maybe the heat from miners can reduce temp in a certain area to reach an ideal growing temp.

Coins mined has value, not getting sick has value too, most people are just taking health for granted.

I am mining at home now in winter and I must say I am only running half of the rig because that is more than enough to mine ETHW which has a really low difficulty right now and by doing so I have not at all turned on the air conditioner except maybe 30 minutes maximum in the morning and 30 minutes as maximum in the evening,that is a huge savings on the bill which an air conditioner like the one I have consumes at the beginning 3000 watt and then when the inverter pulls in like 800-900 watt compared to my half mining rig at 350 watt as a maximum consumption,so I got basically some free heating by doing so.

arielbit

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Quote from: FP91G on December 07, 2022, 06:37:39 AM

It depends on how long summer is in your country. If you have 4 months of summer, then in the remaining 8 months, growing food will be very difficult, trumpeting time and good skills. You can buy a house in the village and take care of your own garden when the profit from mining is enough to live on, but now everything has changed.

Grow lights changes the game, maybe the heat from miners can reduce temp in a certain area to reach an ideal growing temp.

Coins mined has value, not getting sick has value too, most people are just taking health for granted.

joker_josue

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Quote from: FP91G on December 07, 2022, 06:37:39 AM

It depends on how long summer is in your country. If you have 4 months of summer, then in the remaining 8 months, growing food will be very difficult, trumpeting time and good skills. You can buy a house in the village and take care of your own garden when the profit from mining is enough to live on, but now everything has changed.

Even in winter months it can pay off to mine. Instead of turning on the heat to heat the house, use the miners to heat the house. So, while spending energy for heating, you still manage to collect some coins.

FP91G

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It depends on how long summer is in your country. If you have 4 months of summer, then in the remaining 8 months, growing food will be very difficult, trumpeting time and good skills. You can buy a house in the village and take care of your own garden when the profit from mining is enough to live on, but now everything has changed.

arielbit

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What's up with health issues here? I bet it is more with crappy things you put in your bodies than pollution.

Drink distilled water, megahome brand can do it cheaper. Sprouting with grow lights (you have the electrical capability since you are miners).

There is HEPA filters for air filtration, you can also convert AC or anything that intake and expels air with a filter sheet that is not HEPA level but is good enough.

If you spend 1000$ more on healthy food every month vs saving 1000$ every month...do the math for hospitalization, you'll end up better and live better eating delicious and healthy foods.

If low on $$$, then you can convert those $$$ to time and energy to grow your sprouts and have a garden. You can spend less on supplements and food by having a garden.

....aaaaaaand all this investment talk here will be erased with a good 10x or better a 100x or a 1000x LOL Grin

FP91G

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Quote from: swogerino on December 03, 2022, 04:25:44 PM

Quote from: FP91G on December 03, 2022, 08:30:52 AM

Quote from: swogerino on December 02, 2022, 05:15:23 PM

Quote from: FP91G on December 02, 2022, 05:20:54 AM

And what is 65 years in the USA? Your president is 80 years old, although he sometimes falls asleep at meetings

You have better medicine, so there are a lot of older people. In Russia, it is very difficult to live up to 70 years in the city for a citizen with an average salary.

Don't worry now Putin will make sure this goes well below 70 with the stupidity of isolating Russia further and further.I don't want to bring this thread to political views but it is impossible when Russia is mentioned now,the fact that they ask for important parts for their technology chain from India says a lot to me and since Russia is already with this war about 40-50 years behind in technology compared to the West they better stop this war and sit down in the negotiations table rather than isolating further Russia up to a point where there is no return.

Russia has good medicine and a lot of good private clinics, but not all people can afford expensive treatment. I have a mining farm in the village, and you can meet a lot of people over 80 years old there. And if you want to live long, then you need to leave the city for the countryside, breathe fresh air and buy natural products, and not what they sell in stores in the city.

That is true that there is a lot of pollution in the cities and I believe the only big ones in Russia where truly the heart of their economy is Moscow and Petersburg,everything else I believe to be divided equally between all other cities although I don't know the Russian history that much.Even where I live there are a lot of good private clinics but not many people can afford them so what is the point on having them,just for the millionaires,does not make any sense to me.

Unfortunately the last two decades where the average Russian increased his personal earnings during Putin regime it is all going straight into the garbage now because of the error of one man and no one is up to protest about it,that is a catastrophic economic mistake that Russia is making and people there are supporting this mistake.

I recently wanted to make an appointment with the doctor. The initial appointment usually costs $15-30, depending on the experience of the doctor. I chose the best clinic where the initial appointment costs $ 100, but I was offered to make an appointment only at the end of February 2023.
Even now, the demand for good medicine is high. And if I do not want to wait until the end of February, then I was offered an appointment with this doctor in 10 days at a more expensive price.

swogerino

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Quote from: FP91G on December 03, 2022, 08:30:52 AM

Quote from: swogerino on December 02, 2022, 05:15:23 PM

Quote from: FP91G on December 02, 2022, 05:20:54 AM

And what is 65 years in the USA? Your president is 80 years old, although he sometimes falls asleep at meetings

You have better medicine, so there are a lot of older people. In Russia, it is very difficult to live up to 70 years in the city for a citizen with an average salary.

Don't worry now Putin will make sure this goes well below 70 with the stupidity of isolating Russia further and further.I don't want to bring this thread to political views but it is impossible when Russia is mentioned now,the fact that they ask for important parts for their technology chain from India says a lot to me and since Russia is already with this war about 40-50 years behind in technology compared to the West they better stop this war and sit down in the negotiations table rather than isolating further Russia up to a point where there is no return.

Russia has good medicine and a lot of good private clinics, but not all people can afford expensive treatment. I have a mining farm in the village, and you can meet a lot of people over 80 years old there. And if you want to live long, then you need to leave the city for the countryside, breathe fresh air and buy natural products, and not what they sell in stores in the city.

That is true that there is a lot of pollution in the cities and I believe the only big ones in Russia where truly the heart of their economy is Moscow and Petersburg,everything else I believe to be divided equally between all other cities although I don't know the Russian history that much.Even where I live there are a lot of good private clinics but not many people can afford them so what is the point on having them,just for the millionaires,does not make any sense to me.

Unfortunately the last two decades where the average Russian increased his personal earnings during Putin regime it is all going straight into the garbage now because of the error of one man and no one is up to protest about it,that is a catastrophic economic mistake that Russia is making and people there are supporting this mistake.

FP91G

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1136

Quote from: swogerino on December 02, 2022, 05:15:23 PM

Quote from: FP91G on December 02, 2022, 05:20:54 AM

And what is 65 years in the USA? Your president is 80 years old, although he sometimes falls asleep at meetings

You have better medicine, so there are a lot of older people. In Russia, it is very difficult to live up to 70 years in the city for a citizen with an average salary.

Don't worry now Putin will make sure this goes well below 70 with the stupidity of isolating Russia further and further.I don't want to bring this thread to political views but it is impossible when Russia is mentioned now,the fact that they ask for important parts for their technology chain from India says a lot to me and since Russia is already with this war about 40-50 years behind in technology compared to the West they better stop this war and sit down in the negotiations table rather than isolating further Russia up to a point where there is no return.

Russia has good medicine and a lot of good private clinics, but not all people can afford expensive treatment. I have a mining farm in the village, and you can meet a lot of people over 80 years old there. And if you want to live long, then you need to leave the city for the countryside, breathe fresh air and buy natural products, and not what they sell in stores in the city.

joker_josue

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Activity: 1862

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Quote from: philipma1957 on December 03, 2022, 12:13:19 AM

Growing up in New York city I have had quite a few russian friendships. I still am very close to a Russian couple that I know since 1997. Roman and I would often talk politics he fled Russian in 1989 when he was around 23. I look at the world with a viewpoint from 1961 on.

I remember the cold war as a child. We are heading back to that time. It is sad. Who is to blame?
I guess we all are just a bit responsible , but it is sad to see the world turning and burning time after time.

Not wanting to feed the offtopic, I usually say that history repeats itself. Humanity does not learn from the past, the players change but the result is always the same.
If we look closely at the history of civilizations, there must be very few cases where wars have calmed down for periods longer than 100 years. Maybe, at the time of the inquisition in Europe, there weren't so many wars between nations, but it wasn't a good time to live either.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: swogerino on December 02, 2022, 05:15:23 PM

Quote from: FP91G on December 02, 2022, 05:20:54 AM

And what is 65 years in the USA? Your president is 80 years old, although he sometimes falls asleep at meetings

You have better medicine, so there are a lot of older people. In Russia, it is very difficult to live up to 70 years in the city for a citizen with an average salary.

Don't worry now Putin will make sure this goes well below 70 with the stupidity of isolating Russia further and further.I don't want to bring this thread to political views but it is impossible when Russia is mentioned now,the fact that they ask for important parts for their technology chain from India says a lot to me and since Russia is already with this war about 40-50 years behind in technology compared to the West they better stop this war and sit down in the negotiations table rather than isolating further Russia up to a point where there is no return.

Growing up in New York city I have had quite a few russian friendships. I still am very close to a Russian couple that I know since 1997. Roman and I would often talk politics he fled Russian in 1989 when he was around 23. I look at the world with a viewpoint from 1961 on.

I remember the cold war as a child. We are heading back to that time. It is sad. Who is to blame?
I guess we all are just a bit responsible , but it is sad to see the world turning and burning time after time.

swogerino

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 1247

Bitcoin Casino Est. 2013

Quote from: FP91G on December 02, 2022, 05:20:54 AM

And what is 65 years in the USA? Your president is 80 years old, although he sometimes falls asleep at meetings

You have better medicine, so there are a lot of older people. In Russia, it is very difficult to live up to 70 years in the city for a citizen with an average salary.

Don't worry now Putin will make sure this goes well below 70 with the stupidity of isolating Russia further and further.I don't want to bring this thread to political views but it is impossible when Russia is mentioned now,the fact that they ask for important parts for their technology chain from India says a lot to me and since Russia is already with this war about 40-50 years behind in technology compared to the West they better stop this war and sit down in the negotiations table rather than isolating further Russia up to a point where there is no return.

philipma1957

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Activity: 4326

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: FP91G on December 02, 2022, 05:20:54 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on December 01, 2022, 11:56:39 AM

Quote from: FP91G on December 01, 2022, 03:51:30 AM

Quote from: joker_josue on November 30, 2022, 06:59:00 AM

Quote from: FP91G on November 30, 2022, 03:59:40 AM

It is not safe to invest in financial assets in all countries. And inflation in the US is 7%, according to the news. Even now, mining gives 10-30% annual profit, and investments in cryptocurrency now can give 300-1000% profit in a few years.

Investing in country assets is always safe, especially countries like the US. Now, if you say that it has less profitability in the short/medium term, yes it can happen.
But, taking into account how the FED has increased interest rates, this type of investment is currently very profitable, at least in the short term.

I don't understand how you can benefit when the annual profit and inflation are the same. All currencies are depreciating, in the US it is not so noticeable. In Russia, for example, the price of some goods has increased by 100 percent, and for some, the price has not practically changed.

Okay lets say I have 10000 usd in USA I bonds.

Some pay 6.9% others pay 9.62%

pretend it comes to 8% for a year or 800 usd

so 10000 turns into 10800. basically a perfectly pegged USD token as it is USD.

Lets pretend I have 10000 in eth staked on coinbase.

my 300 dropped to 250 even with the 6.85% they are promising which by the way is up from 4%

if i had done 10000 it would be around 8300 as eth dropped. it is a bit more eth but less value based on the dollar price of eth.

I am fine with doing speculation as long as I hedge.

so 10000 in an ibond
and 10000 in eth stake.

means a year later.

10800 = ibond free to move around
? in eth stake likely to still be frozen 🥶

so my ibond move acts as a hedge against my eth stake.

this is why A us bond is okay to do.

will it profit against inflation maybe or maybe not but it will be liquid and close to a profit.

while the 10000 in eth could be way up or way down liquid or frozen.

I can do the eth move a lot more easily knowing I have the stable I-bond position.

I am older 65. I cant think hodl for 20 years. but I can do a 2 year flyer on the eth stake cause I know I have the safe i bonds

And what is 65 years in the USA? Your president is 80 years old, although he sometimes falls asleep at meetings

You have better medicine, so there are a lot of older people. In Russia, it is very difficult to live up to 70 years in the city for a citizen with an average salary.

At 85 Having a few million more than I do now is not a major goal for me.

If I had been smarter back in 2011 or 2012 and had the extra few million now it would have been nice. Grin

FP91G

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Activity: 1834

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Quote from: philipma1957 on December 01, 2022, 11:56:39 AM

Quote from: FP91G on December 01, 2022, 03:51:30 AM

Quote from: joker_josue on November 30, 2022, 06:59:00 AM

Quote from: FP91G on November 30, 2022, 03:59:40 AM

It is not safe to invest in financial assets in all countries. And inflation in the US is 7%, according to the news. Even now, mining gives 10-30% annual profit, and investments in cryptocurrency now can give 300-1000% profit in a few years.

Investing in country assets is always safe, especially countries like the US. Now, if you say that it has less profitability in the short/medium term, yes it can happen.
But, taking into account how the FED has increased interest rates, this type of investment is currently very profitable, at least in the short term.

I don't understand how you can benefit when the annual profit and inflation are the same. All currencies are depreciating, in the US it is not so noticeable. In Russia, for example, the price of some goods has increased by 100 percent, and for some, the price has not practically changed.

Okay lets say I have 10000 usd in USA I bonds.

Some pay 6.9% others pay 9.62%

pretend it comes to 8% for a year or 800 usd

so 10000 turns into 10800. basically a perfectly pegged USD token as it is USD.

Lets pretend I have 10000 in eth staked on coinbase.

my 300 dropped to 250 even with the 6.85% they are promising which by the way is up from 4%

if i had done 10000 it would be around 8300 as eth dropped. it is a bit more eth but less value based on the dollar price of eth.

I am fine with doing speculation as long as I hedge.

so 10000 in an ibond
and 10000 in eth stake.

means a year later.

10800 = ibond free to move around
? in eth stake likely to still be frozen 🥶

so my ibond move acts as a hedge against my eth stake.

this is why A us bond is okay to do.

will it profit against inflation maybe or maybe not but it will be liquid and close to a profit.

while the 10000 in eth could be way up or way down liquid or frozen.

I can do the eth move a lot more easily knowing I have the stable I-bond position.

I am older 65. I cant think hodl for 20 years. but I can do a 2 year flyer on the eth stake cause I know I have the safe i bonds

And what is 65 years in the USA? Your president is 80 years old, although he sometimes falls asleep at meetings

You have better medicine, so there are a lot of older people. In Russia, it is very difficult to live up to 70 years in the city for a citizen with an average salary.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8950

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: FP91G on December 01, 2022, 03:51:30 AM

Quote from: joker_josue on November 30, 2022, 06:59:00 AM

Quote from: FP91G on November 30, 2022, 03:59:40 AM

It is not safe to invest in financial assets in all countries. And inflation in the US is 7%, according to the news. Even now, mining gives 10-30% annual profit, and investments in cryptocurrency now can give 300-1000% profit in a few years.

Investing in country assets is always safe, especially countries like the US. Now, if you say that it has less profitability in the short/medium term, yes it can happen.
But, taking into account how the FED has increased interest rates, this type of investment is currently very profitable, at least in the short term.

I don't understand how you can benefit when the annual profit and inflation are the same. All currencies are depreciating, in the US it is not so noticeable. In Russia, for example, the price of some goods has increased by 100 percent, and for some, the price has not practically changed.

Okay lets say I have 10000 usd in USA I bonds.

Some pay 6.9% others pay 9.62%

pretend it comes to 8% for a year or 800 usd

so 10000 turns into 10800. basically a perfectly pegged USD token as it is USD.

Lets pretend I have 10000 in eth staked on coinbase.

my 300 dropped to 250 even with the 6.85% they are promising which by the way is up from 4%

if i had done 10000 it would be around 8300 as eth dropped. it is a bit more eth but less value based on the dollar price of eth.

I am fine with doing speculation as long as I hedge.

so 10000 in an ibond
and 10000 in eth stake.

means a year later.

10800 = ibond free to move around
? in eth stake likely to still be frozen 🥶

so my ibond move acts as a hedge against my eth stake.

this is why A us bond is okay to do.

will it profit against inflation maybe or maybe not but it will be liquid and close to a profit.

while the 10000 in eth could be way up or way down liquid or frozen.

I can do the eth move a lot more easily knowing I have the stable I-bond position.

I am older 65. I cant think hodl for 20 years. but I can do a 2 year flyer on the eth stake cause I know I have the safe i bonds

joker_josue

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Activity: 1862

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Quote from: FP91G on December 01, 2022, 03:51:30 AM

I don't understand how you can benefit when the annual profit and inflation are the same. All currencies are depreciating, in the US it is not so noticeable. In Russia, for example, the price of some goods has increased by 100 percent, and for some, the price has not practically changed.

If they are the same, the result is zero. That is, it is true that I do not win, but I do not lose either.
Anyone who has the opportunity to make this type of investment at least knows that it will partially mitigate the impact of inflation.
Of course, this will not work in all countries or for all types of people, but in some cases it is a viable option.

FP91G

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Activity: 1834

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Quote from: joker_josue on November 30, 2022, 06:59:00 AM

Quote from: FP91G on November 30, 2022, 03:59:40 AM

It is not safe to invest in financial assets in all countries. And inflation in the US is 7%, according to the news. Even now, mining gives 10-30% annual profit, and investments in cryptocurrency now can give 300-1000% profit in a few years.

Investing in country assets is always safe, especially countries like the US. Now, if you say that it has less profitability in the short/medium term, yes it can happen.
But, taking into account how the FED has increased interest rates, this type of investment is currently very profitable, at least in the short term.

I don't understand how you can benefit when the annual profit and inflation are the same. All currencies are depreciating, in the US it is not so noticeable. In Russia, for example, the price of some goods has increased by 100 percent, and for some, the price has not practically changed.

joker_josue

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Quote from: philipma1957 on November 30, 2022, 09:14:59 PM

Quote from: arielbit on November 30, 2022, 07:08:04 PM

LOL there's a reason why you, him and me are years and years into crypto Grin

.

Yep but every once in a while US bonds are a good hedge.

First time in over 15 years Grin

Furthermore, surely many of us got into Bitcoin with financial dependence in mind and not with the aim of obtaining financial returns (although that is another advantage of Bitcoin).

Government securities, on the other hand, are investments with the sole objective of obtaining a return. Invest 1000$ today, for 1-2 years from now we will have 1100$. And we know it's a guaranteed return, unless the country goes bankrupt. That in the case of the US, if that happens, money would be the least of our problems...

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: arielbit on November 30, 2022, 07:08:04 PM

Quote from: joker_josue on November 30, 2022, 06:59:00 AM

Quote from: FP91G on November 30, 2022, 03:59:40 AM

It is not safe to invest in financial assets in all countries. And inflation in the US is 7%, according to the news. Even now, mining gives 10-30% annual profit, and investments in cryptocurrency now can give 300-1000% profit in a few years.

Investing in country assets is always safe, especially countries like the US. Now, if you say that it has less profitability in the short/medium term, yes it can happen.
But, taking into account how the FED has increased interest rates, this type of investment is currently very profitable, at least in the short term.

LOL there's a reason why you, him and me are years and years into crypto Grin

.

Yep but every once in a while US bonds are a good hedge.

First time in over 15 years Grin

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on November 30, 2022, 06:59:00 AM

Quote from: FP91G on November 30, 2022, 03:59:40 AM

It is not safe to invest in financial assets in all countries. And inflation in the US is 7%, according to the news. Even now, mining gives 10-30% annual profit, and investments in cryptocurrency now can give 300-1000% profit in a few years.

Investing in country assets is always safe, especially countries like the US. Now, if you say that it has less profitability in the short/medium term, yes it can happen.
But, taking into account how the FED has increased interest rates, this type of investment is currently very profitable, at least in the short term.

LOL there's a reason why you, him and me are years and years into crypto Grin

.

joker_josue

legendary

Activity: 1862

Merit: 5154

**In BTC since 2013**

Quote from: FP91G on November 30, 2022, 03:59:40 AM

It is not safe to invest in financial assets in all countries. And inflation in the US is 7%, according to the news. Even now, mining gives 10-30% annual profit, and investments in cryptocurrency now can give 300-1000% profit in a few years.

Investing in country assets is always safe, especially countries like the US. Now, if you say that it has less profitability in the short/medium term, yes it can happen.
But, taking into account how the FED has increased interest rates, this type of investment is currently very profitable, at least in the short term.

FP91G

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Activity: 1834

Merit: 1136

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 28, 2022, 12:14:57 AM

yeah I don’t worry at all about the 300 that is now about 215. and that is with interest jumping to 6.85%

my usa i bonds backed by the fed pay 6.89% and the dollars always stay as a dollar with an i bond.

I have a lot more staked on the i bonds than i have staked on the eth.

more then 1000 or 2000 or 3000.

my gut tells me they will do far better than the eth does.

It is not safe to invest in financial assets in all countries. And inflation in the US is 7%, according to the news. Even now, mining gives 10-30% annual profit, and investments in cryptocurrency now can give 300-1000% profit in a few years.

philipma1957

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Merit: 8950

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: FP91G on November 27, 2022, 07:13:30 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 26, 2022, 02:00:40 PM

Quote from: FP91G on November 26, 2022, 11:14:54 AM

Even before the core developers met, they’d determined that Beacon Chain withdrawals, or EIP 4895, was definitely going to be part of the fork. This means that once Ethereum goes through its next upgrade, users that staked ether prior to the Merge by locking them up in the Beacon Chain smart contract will be able to access them, along with any additional accrued rewards.

By the end of this call, the timeline for Shanghai wasn’t any clearer. Some developers want to expedite Shanghai and include only the ETH withdrawal EIP along with a few other smaller EIPs, sometime in March 2023. Then, a subsequent fork would include another significant scaling upgrade – proto-danksharding – and would ship sometime during the fall of 2023.

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/11/24/ethereum-developers-agree-on-what-could-be-included-in-the-next-upgrade-but-not-when/

For a coin that said it would be POS in Dec of 2017 and ended up going POS in Sept 2022 I think a very long wait is in store for all staked ETH.

I staked $300 worth on coinbase that is drawing a big 4%

So it is dropped in value to $234.87 including about $3 worth of interest.

It will continue to drift downwards as all the unstated coins are being slowly sold off into USD BTC LTC and DOGE.

Those staked coins help to anchor the price and slow the slide in value of the free eth coins that are being dumped as I type.

It is well worth it for me to have the $300 staked as it will give me rights to sue down the road. Figure Dec 2023 to Feb 2024 for the crash to show better.

I say Jan 2025 will be when they 'free' the staked coins.

I think you are very pessimistic about your staked coins. Vitalik cannot delay the process for such a long time, so I believe that in the middle of 2024 the opportunity to withdraw coins will appear. But for $300, I wouldn't worry too much.

yeah I don’t worry at all about the 300 that is now about 215. and that is with interest jumping to 6.85%

my usa i bonds backed by the fed pay 6.89% and the dollars always stay as a dollar with an i bond.

I have a lot more staked on the i bonds than i have staked on the eth.

more then 1000 or 2000 or 3000.

my gut tells me they will do far better than the eth does.

FP91G

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Activity: 1834

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Quote from: philipma1957 on November 26, 2022, 02:00:40 PM

Quote from: FP91G on November 26, 2022, 11:14:54 AM

Even before the core developers met, they’d determined that Beacon Chain withdrawals, or EIP 4895, was definitely going to be part of the fork. This means that once Ethereum goes through its next upgrade, users that staked ether prior to the Merge by locking them up in the Beacon Chain smart contract will be able to access them, along with any additional accrued rewards.

By the end of this call, the timeline for Shanghai wasn’t any clearer. Some developers want to expedite Shanghai and include only the ETH withdrawal EIP along with a few other smaller EIPs, sometime in March 2023. Then, a subsequent fork would include another significant scaling upgrade – proto-danksharding – and would ship sometime during the fall of 2023.

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/11/24/ethereum-developers-agree-on-what-could-be-included-in-the-next-upgrade-but-not-when/

For a coin that said it would be POS in Dec of 2017 and ended up going POS in Sept 2022 I think a very long wait is in store for all staked ETH.

I staked $300 worth on coinbase that is drawing a big 4%

So it is dropped in value to $234.87 including about $3 worth of interest.

It will continue to drift downwards as all the unstated coins are being slowly sold off into USD BTC LTC and DOGE.

Those staked coins help to anchor the price and slow the slide in value of the free eth coins that are being dumped as I type.

It is well worth it for me to have the $300 staked as it will give me rights to sue down the road. Figure Dec 2023 to Feb 2024 for the crash to show better.

I say Jan 2025 will be when they 'free' the staked coins.

I think you are very pessimistic about your staked coins. Vitalik cannot delay the process for such a long time, so I believe that in the middle of 2024 the opportunity to withdraw coins will appear. But for $300, I wouldn't worry too much.

joker_josue

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Quote from: philipma1957 on November 26, 2022, 11:33:27 PM

the P.O.S. mad genius hurt.

Amazon
Amd
Asrock
Asus
Corsair
Delta
Evga
Gigabyte
Leadex
Lenovo
Microcenter
MSI
Newegg
Nvidia
PNY
Sapphire
Seasonic

The list above is far longer V.B.’s bright idea fucked every company I listed.

Of all this did not happen. They may have lost a good chunk of the revenue they had over the last few years, but these companies (at least most and the biggest ones) didn't rely on ETH mining.
We are talking about companies that existed before mining - many years before. And they have always been growing, as they are in a very strong and constantly growing market segment - games.

Furthermore, with the history of the metaverse and virtual/augmented reality, these companies still have a lot of room for growth and a lot of market to explore. Of course, the revenue immediately reduced, but it does not significantly affect them.

Perhaps the smaller companies felt a greater impact, but even so it shouldn't be a problem (if they know how to manage the situation well) as there is a lot of market available.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: OgNasty on November 26, 2022, 05:25:33 PM

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 26, 2022, 02:00:40 PM

Quote from: FP91G on November 26, 2022, 11:14:54 AM

Even before the core developers met, they’d determined that Beacon Chain withdrawals, or EIP 4895, was definitely going to be part of the fork. This means that once Ethereum goes through its next upgrade, users that staked ether prior to the Merge by locking them up in the Beacon Chain smart contract will be able to access them, along with any additional accrued rewards.

By the end of this call, the timeline for Shanghai wasn’t any clearer. Some developers want to expedite Shanghai and include only the ETH withdrawal EIP along with a few other smaller EIPs, sometime in March 2023. Then, a subsequent fork would include another significant scaling upgrade – proto-danksharding – and would ship sometime during the fall of 2023.

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/11/24/ethereum-developers-agree-on-what-could-be-included-in-the-next-upgrade-but-not-when/

For a coin that said it would be POS in Dec of 2017 and ended up going POS in Sept 2022 I think a very long wait is in store for all staked ETH.

I staked $300 worth on coinbase that is drawing a big 4%

So it is dropped in value to $234.87 including about $3 worth of interest.

It will continue to drift downwards as all the unstated coins are being slowly sold off into USD BTC LTC and DOGE.

Those staked coins help to anchor the price and slow the slide in value of the free eth coins that are being dumped as I type.

It is well worth it for me to have the $300 staked as it will give me rights to sue down the road. Figure Dec 2023 to Feb 2024 for the crash to show better.

I say Jan 2025 will be when they 'free' the staked coins.

I would agree with you about the staked coins being locked up for some time except that this is a little different from the move to PoS. People have money at stake here (literally) and when people can’t get their money things get dirty. I would be a bit surprised if these coins aren’t released well before the next bubble, otherwise people may start getting a little crazy. I doubt it’ll be early next year though. They can’t unleash all those coins at the bottom of the market without cratering ETH.

I think Mr V.B. does not sleep well. I wonder how long before he cracks and pulls a Howard Hughes.

He has to be very paranoid about how many people are unhappy with him.

20 million a day in gross income went up in smoke 💨 when the genius did what he did.

that was more daily gross income then btc generates.

144x6.3x20000=18 million a day.

which is less.

the P.O.S. mad genius hurt.

Amazon
Amd
Asrock
Asus
Corsair
Delta
Evga
Gigabyte
Leadex
Lenovo
Microcenter
MSI
Newegg
Nvidia
PNY
Sapphire
Seasonic

The list above is far longer V.B.’s bright idea fucked every company I listed.

So I wish him the best of luck and a merry fucking christmas.

Many will say he promised to go POS and he did so what did he do wrong.

He can say that to himself every night he goes to sleep I am sure it with help him rest well.

joker_josue

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Quote from: OgNasty on November 26, 2022, 05:25:33 PM

I would agree with you about the staked coins being locked up for some time except that this is a little different from the move to PoS. People have money at stake here (literally) and when people can’t get their money things get dirty. I would be a bit surprised if these coins aren’t released well before the next bubble, otherwise people may start getting a little crazy. I doubt it’ll be early next year though. They can’t unleash all those coins at the bottom of the market without cratering ETH.

This is where the question arises:
When people start withdrawing their coins, and their PoS earnings, will the currency really appreciate? Or as sales volume increases or coins in stake decrease, won't the market's perception increase, causing it to fall?

Personally I think that when people start raising their coins, the scenario will not be positive.

OgNasty

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Quote from: philipma1957 on November 26, 2022, 02:00:40 PM

Quote from: FP91G on November 26, 2022, 11:14:54 AM

Even before the core developers met, they’d determined that Beacon Chain withdrawals, or EIP 4895, was definitely going to be part of the fork. This means that once Ethereum goes through its next upgrade, users that staked ether prior to the Merge by locking them up in the Beacon Chain smart contract will be able to access them, along with any additional accrued rewards.

By the end of this call, the timeline for Shanghai wasn’t any clearer. Some developers want to expedite Shanghai and include only the ETH withdrawal EIP along with a few other smaller EIPs, sometime in March 2023. Then, a subsequent fork would include another significant scaling upgrade – proto-danksharding – and would ship sometime during the fall of 2023.

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/11/24/ethereum-developers-agree-on-what-could-be-included-in-the-next-upgrade-but-not-when/

For a coin that said it would be POS in Dec of 2017 and ended up going POS in Sept 2022 I think a very long wait is in store for all staked ETH.

I staked $300 worth on coinbase that is drawing a big 4%

So it is dropped in value to $234.87 including about $3 worth of interest.

It will continue to drift downwards as all the unstated coins are being slowly sold off into USD BTC LTC and DOGE.

Those staked coins help to anchor the price and slow the slide in value of the free eth coins that are being dumped as I type.

It is well worth it for me to have the $300 staked as it will give me rights to sue down the road. Figure Dec 2023 to Feb 2024 for the crash to show better.

I say Jan 2025 will be when they 'free' the staked coins.

I would agree with you about the staked coins being locked up for some time except that this is a little different from the move to PoS. People have money at stake here (literally) and when people can’t get their money things get dirty. I would be a bit surprised if these coins aren’t released well before the next bubble, otherwise people may start getting a little crazy. I doubt it’ll be early next year though. They can’t unleash all those coins at the bottom of the market without cratering ETH.

swogerino

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Quote from: joker_josue on November 26, 2022, 07:08:01 AM

Quote from: swogerino on November 26, 2022, 05:19:02 AM

That is the way most people should adopt,those who cannot afford energy and are not willing like me to mine at a loss,they would be better to buy their favorite crypto in which they believe will skyrocket and use money that they would otherwise use on energy for mining to buy their beloved crypto.Personally I am mining at a loss,many consider it a gamble and that is what it is normally,I mine ETHW and hope the price of it to skyrocket.

Are you just mining a coin?
A suggestion is to mine several coins, to keep an interesting amount of each one, in order to stay in the expectation of some increase in value.
This can reduce the impact of some currency appreciating and not being the one you hadn't mined. So, if you mine a little bit of all of them, you're better positioned for the future.

I am only mining ETHW as a gamble and I believe truly a lot in RTM-Raptoreum which I have about 4000 of them already and doing about 25-40 daily,I think the team behind them is truly masterpiece from what I understand from their road map.I do this and I keep SHIBA,ZIL,Litecoin and I also keep my main one the Bitcoin so I think I am already stocked up good for the next bull run but since the next bull run I predict it to be on 2024-2025 mostly 2025 so until then I hope to have more.

As for ETH which betrayed all of us I hope only misery finds this coin which is doomed to fail,for other people who have ETH laying around I suggest to convert them to Bitcoin while the exchange ratio is still good or if they insist to keep it waiting for a recovery then doom is inevitable for them too.

philipma1957

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Quote from: FP91G on November 26, 2022, 11:14:54 AM

Even before the core developers met, they’d determined that Beacon Chain withdrawals, or EIP 4895, was definitely going to be part of the fork. This means that once Ethereum goes through its next upgrade, users that staked ether prior to the Merge by locking them up in the Beacon Chain smart contract will be able to access them, along with any additional accrued rewards.

By the end of this call, the timeline for Shanghai wasn’t any clearer. Some developers want to expedite Shanghai and include only the ETH withdrawal EIP along with a few other smaller EIPs, sometime in March 2023. Then, a subsequent fork would include another significant scaling upgrade – proto-danksharding – and would ship sometime during the fall of 2023.

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/11/24/ethereum-developers-agree-on-what-could-be-included-in-the-next-upgrade-but-not-when/

For a coin that said it would be POS in Dec of 2017 and ended up going POS in Sept 2022 I think a very long wait is in store for all staked ETH.

I staked $300 worth on coinbase that is drawing a big 4%

So it is dropped in value to $234.87 including about $3 worth of interest.

It will continue to drift downwards as all the unstated coins are being slowly sold off into USD BTC LTC and DOGE.

Those staked coins help to anchor the price and slow the slide in value of the free eth coins that are being dumped as I type.

It is well worth it for me to have the $300 staked as it will give me rights to sue down the road. Figure Dec 2023 to Feb 2024 for the crash to show better.

I say Jan 2025 will be when they 'free' the staked coins.

FP91G

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1136

Even before the core developers met, they’d determined that Beacon Chain withdrawals, or EIP 4895, was definitely going to be part of the fork. This means that once Ethereum goes through its next upgrade, users that staked ether prior to the Merge by locking them up in the Beacon Chain smart contract will be able to access them, along with any additional accrued rewards.

By the end of this call, the timeline for Shanghai wasn’t any clearer. Some developers want to expedite Shanghai and include only the ETH withdrawal EIP along with a few other smaller EIPs, sometime in March 2023. Then, a subsequent fork would include another significant scaling upgrade – proto-danksharding – and would ship sometime during the fall of 2023.

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/11/24/ethereum-developers-agree-on-what-could-be-included-in-the-next-upgrade-but-not-when/

joker_josue

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Quote from: swogerino on November 26, 2022, 05:19:02 AM

That is the way most people should adopt,those who cannot afford energy and are not willing like me to mine at a loss,they would be better to buy their favorite crypto in which they believe will skyrocket and use money that they would otherwise use on energy for mining to buy their beloved crypto.Personally I am mining at a loss,many consider it a gamble and that is what it is normally,I mine ETHW and hope the price of it to skyrocket.

Are you just mining a coin?
A suggestion is to mine several coins, to keep an interesting amount of each one, in order to stay in the expectation of some increase in value.
This can reduce the impact of some currency appreciating and not being the one you hadn't mined. So, if you mine a little bit of all of them, you're better positioned for the future.

swogerino

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Quote from: joker_josue on November 26, 2022, 04:07:26 AM

Quote from: swogerino on November 23, 2022, 11:46:37 AM

Does this not show a complete failure of PoS against PoW?What about the next ETH,who will it be,ETC,ERGO,RVN or ETHW as I don't see any other alternative except this ones.Nevertheless mining is much better than staking as we are seeing with Ethereum and the bullshit of saving energy is just that bullshit,PoW is and will always be the winner between these two protocols.

In a way I agree with you, that PoW will always be the most secure and decentralized form for a digital currency.

The problem at the moment of mining is the cost of energy in many countries of the world, especially in Europe. This makes it difficult for some people to continue to mine coins that are currently of very little value. This can lead many to prefer to bet on PoS.
Even so, I am of the opinion that it would be better to take part of the money that would be to pay for energy, and use it to buy BTC.

That is the way most people should adopt,those who cannot afford energy and are not willing like me to mine at a loss,they would be better to buy their favorite crypto in which they believe will skyrocket and use money that they would otherwise use on energy for mining to buy their beloved crypto.Personally I am mining at a loss,many consider it a gamble and that is what it is normally,I mine ETHW and hope the price of it to skyrocket.

Those who bet on PoS are already on the losing side as they are having difficulty to get any reward by their staked coins so let's wait and see what happens there.

joker_josue

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Quote from: swogerino on November 23, 2022, 11:46:37 AM

Does this not show a complete failure of PoS against PoW?What about the next ETH,who will it be,ETC,ERGO,RVN or ETHW as I don't see any other alternative except this ones.Nevertheless mining is much better than staking as we are seeing with Ethereum and the bullshit of saving energy is just that bullshit,PoW is and will always be the winner between these two protocols.

In a way I agree with you, that PoW will always be the most secure and decentralized form for a digital currency.

The problem at the moment of mining is the cost of energy in many countries of the world, especially in Europe. This makes it difficult for some people to continue to mine coins that are currently of very little value. This can lead many to prefer to bet on PoS.
Even so, I am of the opinion that it would be better to take part of the money that would be to pay for energy, and use it to buy BTC.

philipma1957

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Quote from: ccplz on November 25, 2022, 09:43:05 AM

I'm not familiar with how ETH works, if I staked my ETH let's say 2 years ago, when will I be able to have access to them(approximately)

MAYBE Dec 2023.

no sooner.

ccplz

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I'm not familiar with how ETH works, if I staked my ETH let's say 2 years ago, when will I be able to have access to them(approximately)

FP91G

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And why now sell ethereum for 1100-1200 dollars? I have read that stakers can spend their rewards and the remaining coins will be available for withdrawal next year.You need to follow the results of testing the withdrawal of staked coins.

Bitcoin_Arena

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Quote from: swogerino on November 23, 2022, 11:46:37 AM

Today I was scrolling the internet when I read an article about how bad the management of Ethereum Foundation is,they said that at first the people who would stake 32 ETH who would act as validators for the transactions they would get the rewards for doing such verification once every 6 months,then they said it would be about 6 months to 1 year and lately they said that these people who staked ETH will not get rewards before 2024 by validating transactions and nor can they withdraw their ETH or anything.

I have been following ETH so much especially after going POS

Why do they keep extending reward payment further?

Quote from: swogerino on November 23, 2022, 11:46:37 AM

Does this not show a complete failure of PoS against PoW?What about the next ETH,who will it be,ETC,ERGO,RVN or ETHW as I don't see any other alternative except this ones.Nevertheless mining is much better than staking as we are seeing with Ethereum and the bullshit of saving energy is just that bullshit,PoW is and will always be the winner between these two protocols.

Obviously, it would only be those who are less informed that would think that POS is better than POW

FP91G

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Withdrawal of staked ethereums is being tested
Ethereum developers launched a new devnet to test the unlocking of ether staked with validators.
The devnet prepares Ethereum client teams to open up validator staking withdrawals next year.
https://www.theblock.co/post/189496/ethereum-client-teams-test-staking-withdrawals-on-devnet

sxemini

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Quote from: devil2man on November 23, 2022, 04:13:17 PM

Let's say that the transition of eth from pow to pos was not a success the rewards only in a few years for the nodes, not being able to withdraw the eth placed in pos (although after the Shanghai update it will become possible) at the same time there are still no valid alternatives sure there is ethw but the earnings are not the same

You get under 5% per year for staking eth - so the "rewards" is also low as the mining profits at the moment. i don´t see a reason to stake over 32000€ for 5% yearly and loose the capability to sell my coins for years.
Zilliqa for example is PoW/PoS, you get 16% for staking, you can withdraw it every time and you can mine it. Only an example!!!!

ERGO lost much of the reputation after this BlockTime disaster and the in my opinion not successfull hardfork, the stolen ETC twitter account and so on.

devil2man

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Let's say that the transition of eth from pow to pos was not a success the rewards only in a few years for the nodes, not being able to withdraw the eth placed in pos (although after the Shanghai update it will become possible) at the same time there are still no valid alternatives sure there is ethw but the earnings are not the same

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Quote from: swogerino on November 23, 2022, 11:46:37 AM

who will it be,ETC,ERGO,RVN or ETHW as I don't see any other alternative except this ones.

Kaspa.

vuli1

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usuly in POS you got rewards every transcation your node confirmed. this is strange and I would not like it.

swogerino

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Today I was scrolling the internet when I read an article about how bad the management of Ethereum Foundation is,they said that at first the people who would stake 32 ETH who would act as validators for the transactions they would get the rewards for doing such verification once every 6 months,then they said it would be about 6 months to 1 year and lately they said that these people who staked ETH will not get rewards before 2024 by validating transactions and nor can they withdraw their ETH or anything.

Does this not show a complete failure of PoS against PoW?What about the next ETH,who will it be,ETC,ERGO,RVN or ETHW as I don't see any other alternative except this ones.Nevertheless mining is much better than staking as we are seeing with Ethereum and the bullshit of saving energy is just that bullshit,PoW is and will always be the winner between these two protocols.

Topic: So much for PoS from PoW for ETH (Read 945 times)