So, why did Bitstamp suspend fiat withdrawals?

NotLambchop

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Quote from: poncho32 on January 11, 2015, 04:58:23 AM

Quote from: WillyBTC on January 11, 2015, 02:16:42 AM

Quote from: AceWallen on January 10, 2015, 06:28:29 PM

Quote from: xybersurfer on January 10, 2015, 02:52:50 PM

Quote from: grappa_barricata on January 08, 2015, 08:44:48 AM

They are protecting their own interests at the expenses of yours.

that's also true. but i like Bitstamp, so i would prefer if it wasn't deserted immediately

it's been looking for a long time like Bitstamp was deserted. i left there in september 2013 and never looked back. horrible engine, bad liquidity. and liquidity/volume has only gotten worse there over time.

Yeah, I left around that time, sometime in fall 2013 anyway. It was around the time that they started requiring verification. Turned out to be a good choice in the long run. I'm on Okcoin and Bitfinex now.

Would you say Okcoin and Bitfinex are trustworthy? Do they have insurance for if they get hacked?

Bitfinex? Insurance? No one knows where BFX is or who runs it, forget insurance Cheesy

WillyBTC

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Quote from: poncho32 on January 11, 2015, 04:58:23 AM

Quote from: WillyBTC on January 11, 2015, 02:16:42 AM

Quote from: AceWallen on January 10, 2015, 06:28:29 PM

Quote from: xybersurfer on January 10, 2015, 02:52:50 PM

Quote from: grappa_barricata on January 08, 2015, 08:44:48 AM

They are protecting their own interests at the expenses of yours.

that's also true. but i like Bitstamp, so i would prefer if it wasn't deserted immediately

it's been looking for a long time like Bitstamp was deserted. i left there in september 2013 and never looked back. horrible engine, bad liquidity. and liquidity/volume has only gotten worse there over time.

Yeah, I left around that time, sometime in fall 2013 anyway. It was around the time that they started requiring verification. Turned out to be a good choice in the long run. I'm on Okcoin and Bitfinex now.

Would you say Okcoin and Bitfinex are trustworthy? Do they have insurance for if they get hacked?

None of the exchanges are trustworthy. All of them are pretty incompetent. All of them could do what Gox did. This is the added risk that traders need to account for.

poncho32

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Quote from: WillyBTC on January 11, 2015, 02:16:42 AM

Quote from: AceWallen on January 10, 2015, 06:28:29 PM

Quote from: xybersurfer on January 10, 2015, 02:52:50 PM

Quote from: grappa_barricata on January 08, 2015, 08:44:48 AM

They are protecting their own interests at the expenses of yours.

that's also true. but i like Bitstamp, so i would prefer if it wasn't deserted immediately

it's been looking for a long time like Bitstamp was deserted. i left there in september 2013 and never looked back. horrible engine, bad liquidity. and liquidity/volume has only gotten worse there over time.

Yeah, I left around that time, sometime in fall 2013 anyway. It was around the time that they started requiring verification. Turned out to be a good choice in the long run. I'm on Okcoin and Bitfinex now.

Would you say Okcoin and Bitfinex are trustworthy? Do they have insurance for if they get hacked?

WillyBTC

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Quote from: AceWallen on January 10, 2015, 06:28:29 PM

Quote from: xybersurfer on January 10, 2015, 02:52:50 PM

Quote from: grappa_barricata on January 08, 2015, 08:44:48 AM

They are protecting their own interests at the expenses of yours.

that's also true. but i like Bitstamp, so i would prefer if it wasn't deserted immediately

it's been looking for a long time like Bitstamp was deserted. i left there in september 2013 and never looked back. horrible engine, bad liquidity. and liquidity/volume has only gotten worse there over time.

Yeah, I left around that time, sometime in fall 2013 anyway. It was around the time that they started requiring verification. Turned out to be a good choice in the long run. I'm on Okcoin and Bitfinex now.

AceWallen

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Quote from: xybersurfer on January 10, 2015, 02:52:50 PM

Quote from: grappa_barricata on January 08, 2015, 08:44:48 AM

They are protecting their own interests at the expenses of yours.

that's also true. but i like Bitstamp, so i would prefer if it wasn't deserted immediately

it's been looking for a long time like Bitstamp was deserted. i left there in september 2013 and never looked back. horrible engine, bad liquidity. and liquidity/volume has only gotten worse there over time.

xybersurfer

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Quote from: grappa_barricata on January 08, 2015, 08:44:48 AM

They are protecting their own interests at the expenses of yours.

that's also true. but i like Bitstamp, so i would prefer if it wasn't deserted immediately

Nagle

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Quote from: celebreze32 on January 08, 2015, 03:46:40 PM

Is there a way to find out if someone has already made a statutory demand?

Not unless you sent it. A statutory demand is just a letter delivered by a process server, not a court filing.

celebreze32

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Quote from: smoothie on January 08, 2015, 04:26:49 PM

Quote from: exocytosis on January 08, 2015, 04:18:34 PM

Quote from: celebreze32 on January 08, 2015, 08:17:49 AM

Quote from: exocytosis on January 08, 2015, 07:09:45 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I gotta ask...are you ever happy?

This is a legitimate question.

Yes. I'm happy right now.

I'm happy that I didn't have any fiat or BTC on Stamp, which will declare insolvency and bankruptcy soon.

Sorry for your loss, btw.

What exchange do you use if you trade?

I no longer do any trading. I don't trust any Bitcoin exchanges. At all.

This ^.

I use multiple exchanges and only move a small amount through them at any one point. If I am cashing out BTC...I will wait until the deposit of fiat (or wire) is completed before depositing anything else into said exchange.

I dodged a huge bullet as I was tempted to deposit a large chunk of BTC into bitstamp around the new year and ended up not doing it due to being busy with family and business.

That thought was something that would have been a huge hinderance on cash flow for me. Now that I have dodged that bullet I will never deposit any large sums on any one site ever. Only what I plan to convert to another crypto or to fiat and withdraw immediately.

People should really heed the idea of being your own bank and keeping your coins in your possession.

Even leaving fiat on an exchange for me is too much risk. I don't leave $1 on any exchange anymore ever.

If people would consider doing their exchanging this way there would be a lot less losses among the crypto community involving hacked/scammy exchanges.

Which of the exchanges currently open for business do you think is at most risk of being hacked? If you use multiple exchanges do you use them all, or are there some you refuse to use?

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: exocytosis on January 08, 2015, 04:18:34 PM

Quote from: celebreze32 on January 08, 2015, 08:17:49 AM

Quote from: exocytosis on January 08, 2015, 07:09:45 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I gotta ask...are you ever happy?

This is a legitimate question.

Yes. I'm happy right now.

I'm happy that I didn't have any fiat or BTC on Stamp, which will declare insolvency and bankruptcy soon.

Sorry for your loss, btw.

What exchange do you use if you trade?

I no longer do any trading. I don't trust any Bitcoin exchanges. At all.

This ^.

I use multiple exchanges and only move a small amount through them at any one point. If I am cashing out BTC...I will wait until the deposit of fiat (or wire) is completed before depositing anything else into said exchange.

I dodged a huge bullet as I was tempted to deposit a large chunk of BTC into bitstamp around the new year and ended up not doing it due to being busy with family and business.

That thought was something that would have been a huge hinderance on cash flow for me. Now that I have dodged that bullet I will never deposit any large sums on any one site ever. Only what I plan to convert to another crypto or to fiat and withdraw immediately.

People should really heed the idea of being your own bank and keeping your coins in your possession.

Even leaving fiat on an exchange for me is too much risk. I don't leave $1 on any exchange anymore ever.

If people would consider doing their exchanging this way there would be a lot less losses among the crypto community involving hacked/scammy exchanges.

exocytosis

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Quote from: celebreze32 on January 08, 2015, 08:17:49 AM

Quote from: exocytosis on January 08, 2015, 07:09:45 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I gotta ask...are you ever happy?

This is a legitimate question.

Yes. I'm happy right now.

I'm happy that I didn't have any fiat or BTC on Stamp, which will declare insolvency and bankruptcy soon.

Sorry for your loss, btw.

What exchange do you use if you trade?

I no longer do any trading. I don't trust any Bitcoin exchanges. At all.

celebreze32

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Activity: 296

Merit: 250

Quote from: Nagle on January 08, 2015, 03:42:53 PM

Quote from: Asrael999 on January 08, 2015, 08:54:53 AM

Quote from: Nagle on January 07, 2015, 11:47:42 PM

If you're in the UK, or have an address in the UK, you can file a statutory demand for payment. That starts a 21 day legal clock, and if they haven't paid after 21 days, you can start putting them into liquidation.

See: "Make and serve a statutory demand", published by the British government. The UK has tough collection laws.

Bitstamp's registered address is:

BITSTAMP LIMITED
5 NEW STREET SQUARE
LONDON
UNITED KINGDOM
EC4A 3TW
Company No. 08157033

Act now to avoid being caught in another Mt. Gox like situation.
If it turns out that Bitstamp is OK, they'll send you your funds, and you're done. It won't hurt them if they pay.

Why would I want to do that? If I put them into liquidation I turn my claim on my funds into that of a senior creditor.
At that point I am equal to any bank that has lent them money, and junior to any venture capital fund that may have lent them money on a secured basis.
In effect my money ceases to become my money and becomes general corporate funds to be distributed equally between all senior creditors, after any taxes, duties and secured creditors have been paid out. So I am likely to get significantly less than I will get if I wait for them to reopen and then withdraw my money. If they have not reopened in a week or so then think again - but right now what you suggest is detrimental.

That's an excellent point. However, a statutory demand doesn't put them into liquidation; it just gives you that option. That, as a creditor, gives you more bargaining power. Also, it helps prevent dissipation of assets as a dying company thrashes around trying to survive.

Since Bitstamp didn't make their self-imposed 48-hour deadline, and hasn't even issued any new public statements or talked to the press, they're probably in deeper trouble than they've admitted. Worst case, management has run off with the assets and disappeared. Some form of legal or police action is needed. Mt. Gox's creditors waited far too long before acting.

Is there a way to find out if someone has already made a statutory demand?

Nagle

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Quote from: Asrael999 on January 08, 2015, 08:54:53 AM

Quote from: Nagle on January 07, 2015, 11:47:42 PM

If you're in the UK, or have an address in the UK, you can file a statutory demand for payment. That starts a 21 day legal clock, and if they haven't paid after 21 days, you can start putting them into liquidation.

See: "Make and serve a statutory demand", published by the British government. The UK has tough collection laws.

Bitstamp's registered address is:

BITSTAMP LIMITED
5 NEW STREET SQUARE
LONDON
UNITED KINGDOM
EC4A 3TW
Company No. 08157033

Act now to avoid being caught in another Mt. Gox like situation.
If it turns out that Bitstamp is OK, they'll send you your funds, and you're done. It won't hurt them if they pay.

Why would I want to do that? If I put them into liquidation I turn my claim on my funds into that of a senior creditor.
At that point I am equal to any bank that has lent them money, and junior to any venture capital fund that may have lent them money on a secured basis.
In effect my money ceases to become my money and becomes general corporate funds to be distributed equally between all senior creditors, after any taxes, duties and secured creditors have been paid out. So I am likely to get significantly less than I will get if I wait for them to reopen and then withdraw my money. If they have not reopened in a week or so then think again - but right now what you suggest is detrimental.

That's an excellent point. However, a statutory demand doesn't put them into liquidation; it just gives you that option. That, as a creditor, gives you more bargaining power. Also, it helps prevent dissipation of assets as a dying company thrashes around trying to survive.

Since Bitstamp didn't make their self-imposed 48-hour deadline, and hasn't even issued any new public statements or talked to the press, they're probably in deeper trouble than they've admitted. Worst case, management has run off with the assets and disappeared. Some form of legal or police action is needed. Mt. Gox's creditors waited far too long before acting.

Asrael999

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Quote from: Nagle on January 07, 2015, 11:47:42 PM

Quote from: R2Pleasent on January 07, 2015, 10:25:39 PM

Quote from: xybersurfer on January 07, 2015, 10:14:09 PM

if they enable fiat withdrawals and leave all the other things disabled, then all people can do is withdraw.
that would not be in their best interest.

Maybe true, but I have a fiat withdrawal which I confirmed before the service was shut down, and nothing has been processed. That is inexcusable. Bitstamp is holding my fiat which I withdrew Jan 4th, 2015.

If you're in the UK, or have an address in the UK, you can file a statutory demand for payment. That starts a 21 day legal clock, and if they haven't paid after 21 days, you can start putting them into liquidation.

See: "Make and serve a statutory demand", published by the British government. The UK has tough collection laws.

Bitstamp's registered address is:

BITSTAMP LIMITED
5 NEW STREET SQUARE
LONDON
UNITED KINGDOM
EC4A 3TW
Company No. 08157033

Act now to avoid being caught in another Mt. Gox like situation.

If it turns out that Bitstamp is OK, they'll send you your funds, and you're done. It won't hurt them if they pay.

Why would I want to do that? If I put them into liquidation I turn my claim on my funds into that of a senior creditor.
At that point I am equal to any bank that has lent them money, and junior to any venture capital fund that may have lent them money on a secured basis.
In effect my money ceases to become my money and becomes general corporate funds to be distributed equally between all senior creditors, after any taxes, duties and secured creditors have been paid out. So I am likely to get significantly less than I will get if I wait for them to reopen and then withdraw my money. If they have not reopened in a week or so then think again - but right now what you suggest is detrimental.

Mr.Andrewbert

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The suspected RNG attack on, and the resulting service halt, of leading bitcoin exchange platform BitStamp. There are another more reasons, Please read full news here: http://newsbtc.com/2015/01/05/bitstamp-update/

grappa_barricata

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playing pasta and eating mandolinos

They are protecting their own interests at the expenses of yours.

NotLambchop

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Quote from: Dangolbery on January 07, 2015, 10:41:42 PM

...
They're then like "umm fuck, our fiat doesn't match our coins" and shut everything down followed by quickly going insolvent.

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: exocytosis on January 07, 2015, 09:10:45 PM

After all, this was just a small "hack" where some "hackers" stole a few bitcoins, right?

So, why did the Stamp guys suspend all fiat withdrawals?

No need to do that, or what?

Unless, of course, the Stamp guys actually have something to hide ... But that obviously can't be true!!! It's not like some Bitcoin exchange owner would ever tell a lie to his customers! That's impossible!

Didn't they have a recent audit? What are they trying to hide, in your opinion?

freedomno1

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Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Quote from: exocytosis on January 07, 2015, 09:10:45 PM

Unless, of course, the Stamp guys actually have something to hide ... But that obviously can't be true!!! It's not like some Bitcoin exchange owner would ever tell a lie to his customers! That's impossible!

Points to you for that gem
But of course anyways would trade with caution and withdraw till issue is resolved this looks more than suspicious and well seen enough of them collapse mumble.

celebreze32

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Quote from: exocytosis on January 08, 2015, 07:09:45 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I gotta ask...are you ever happy?

This is a legitimate question.

Yes. I'm happy right now.

I'm happy that I didn't have any fiat or BTC on Stamp, which will declare insolvency and bankruptcy soon.

Sorry for your loss, btw.

What exchange do you use if you trade?

exocytosis

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Activity: 476

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I gotta ask...are you ever happy?

This is a legitimate question.

Yes. I'm happy right now.

I'm happy that I didn't have any fiat or BTC on Stamp, which will declare insolvency and bankruptcy soon.

Sorry for your loss, btw.

Amph

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to prevent him from cashout there at least

zby

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I am thinking about filing that statutory demand - but they even refuse to inform me about the exact balance of my account:

"Unfortunately, we are unable to check your account balance at the moment. This is because of the reasons, already stated in our previous response."

the previous response was:

"For the time being, you cannot withdraw bitcoins held in our wallet. This is because we have temporarily suspended our services in an attempt to make sure that all of our customers’ Bitcoin and personal information remain safe. We are working to restore our full services in the coming days, at which time you’ll be able to resume withdrawals, deposits, and other Bitstamp services."

carlosiness

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Quote from: xybersurfer on January 07, 2015, 10:14:09 PM

if they enable fiat withdrawals and leave all the other things disabled, then all people can do is withdraw.

that would not be in their best interest.

fully agree, it already affected many bitstamp users..

inca

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Quote from: caga on January 08, 2015, 03:44:10 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: exocytosis on January 07, 2015, 09:10:45 PM

After all, this was just a small "hack" where some "hackers" stole a few bitcoins, right?

So, why did the Stamp guys suspend all fiat withdrawals?

No need to do that, or what?

Unless, of course, the Stamp guys actually have something to hide ... But that obviously can't be true!!! It's not like some Bitcoin exchange owner would ever tell a lie to his customers! That's impossible!

I gotta ask...are you ever happy?

This is a legitimate question.

Thats a really inappropriate question to ask . Looks like you think the op is trolling, but wouldn't you be worried if your money is stuck like that .

OP is a known troll.

A curious breed. He thinks that buying bitcoin in the scenario of a giant crash to double digits will lead to riches, rather than the end of bitcoin as a viable asset class for the next decade. Odd bitter man.

It seems quite reasonable in the context of a minor loss of funds for stamp to want to restart their business after a short operating pause - rather than allow it to be destroyed by losing their entire user base to a rushed withdrawal of all funds.

caga

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: exocytosis on January 07, 2015, 09:10:45 PM

After all, this was just a small "hack" where some "hackers" stole a few bitcoins, right?

So, why did the Stamp guys suspend all fiat withdrawals?

No need to do that, or what?

Unless, of course, the Stamp guys actually have something to hide ... But that obviously can't be true!!! It's not like some Bitcoin exchange owner would ever tell a lie to his customers! That's impossible!

I gotta ask...are you ever happy?

This is a legitimate question.

Thats a really inappropriate question to ask . Looks like you think the op is trolling, but wouldn't you be worried if your money is stuck like that .

Chef Ramsay

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Quote from: exocytosis on January 07, 2015, 09:10:45 PM

Unless, of course, the Stamp guys actually have something to hide ... But that obviously can't be true!!! It's not like some Bitcoin exchange owner would ever tell a lie to his customers! That's impossible!

That was the lol that made my day no matter how Stomp makes its move. Cool

And, I hate your commentary.

Nagle

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Quote from: R2Pleasent on January 07, 2015, 10:25:39 PM

Quote from: xybersurfer on January 07, 2015, 10:14:09 PM

if they enable fiat withdrawals and leave all the other things disabled, then all people can do is withdraw.
that would not be in their best interest.

Maybe true, but I have a fiat withdrawal which I confirmed before the service was shut down, and nothing has been processed. That is inexcusable. Bitstamp is holding my fiat which I withdrew Jan 4th, 2015.

If you're in the UK, or have an address in the UK, you can file a statutory demand for payment. That starts a 21 day legal clock, and if they haven't paid after 21 days, you can start putting them into liquidation.

See: "Make and serve a statutory demand", published by the British government. The UK has tough collection laws.

Bitstamp's registered address is:

BITSTAMP LIMITED
5 NEW STREET SQUARE
LONDON
UNITED KINGDOM
EC4A 3TW
Company No. 08157033

Act now to avoid being caught in another Mt. Gox like situation.

If it turns out that Bitstamp is OK, they'll send you your funds, and you're done. It won't hurt them if they pay.

Dangolbery

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Because the only time these exchanges actually realise they have had bitcoins stolen is when their fiat reserves are insufficient and banks bounce peoples withdrawals.

They're then like "umm fuck, our fiat doesn't match our coins" and shut everything down followed by quickly going insolvent.

Cluster2k

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It's normal to suspend all operations. Can Bitstamp be sure only bitcoins were stolen? Can they be sure no nasty surprises were left behind by the attackers, such as back doors that would allow further theft?

celebreze32

sr. member

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Merit: 250

The first thing to do after a hack is shut the system down and take a forensic copy of all the hard drives. After that they would probably send all the physical hard drives to a laboratory to try to recover any deleted evidence.

Maybe they could have manually processed fiat withdrawals afterwards, but as xybersurfer commented, that would not be in their best interest.

R2Pleasent

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Quote from: xybersurfer on January 07, 2015, 10:14:09 PM

if they enable fiat withdrawals and leave all the other things disabled, then all people can do is withdraw.

that would not be in their best interest.

Maybe true, but I have a fiat withdrawal which I confirmed before the service was shut down, and nothing has been processed. That is inexcusable. Bitstamp is holding my fiat which I withdrew Jan 4th, 2015.

xybersurfer

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if they enable fiat withdrawals and leave all the other things disabled, then all people can do is withdraw.

that would not be in their best interest.

exocytosis

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After all, this was just a small "hack" where some "hackers" stole a few bitcoins, right?

So, why did the Stamp guys suspend all fiat withdrawals?

No need to do that, or what?

Unless, of course, the Stamp guys actually have something to hide ... But that obviously can't be true!!! It's not like some Bitcoin exchange owner would ever tell a lie to his customers! That's impossible!

Topic: So, why did Bitstamp suspend fiat withdrawals? (Read 2368 times)