Thorswap, Threshold, and Avalanche Bridge aren't decentralized exchanges, they should be moved to the second ways. The real decentralized exchange is Bisq because it can't be stopped because you're not relying to centralized server. If the government shutdown bisq domain, it's only the site that can't be reached, you can still use the software. But if those swap domain gets shutdown, it's over.
If you use Bisq, either convert it to Monero or Lightning network, you don't have to afraid be with smart contracts drama.
Topic: Solutions to bring BTC to another network and then SWAP (Read 251 times)
On which platform can you do atomic swaps between BTC and ETH? I couldn't find anything online (maybe I need to look into it further).
For the security concerns I understand are something new and not intesively tested but even on well-known CEX there could be security concerns and limits, I guess.
For the security concerns I understand are something new and not intesively tested but even on well-known CEX there could be security concerns and limits, I guess.
I think you can use Cake Wallet, although I am not 100% certain it is considered a traditional atomic swap in the strict sense of the word- as a mechanism based purely on HTLC and LN (as with compatible blockchains such as Litecoin or Monero). So I am not sure about the custodial factor here.
I like Bisq, I even liked Localbitcoins, but no, I was talking about non-platformed P2P.
So, with Bisq you've to run a software, with LBC alternatives you give up custody of your coins, you'd use both to protect yourself with escrow (in the case of Bisq a deposit guarantee).
My P2P is talking to an actual person, agreeing a rate of exchange. We send each other the respective coins. I understand I use this as a privilege of knowing certain traders for years. But yes, if you start on Bisq or an LBC alternative, I guess Binance P2P is an easy way to start, you'll build your own "web of trust" and eventually just ditch the platforms.
So, with Bisq you've to run a software, with LBC alternatives you give up custody of your coins, you'd use both to protect yourself with escrow (in the case of Bisq a deposit guarantee).
My P2P is talking to an actual person, agreeing a rate of exchange. We send each other the respective coins. I understand I use this as a privilege of knowing certain traders for years. But yes, if you start on Bisq or an LBC alternative, I guess Binance P2P is an easy way to start, you'll build your own "web of trust" and eventually just ditch the platforms.
Ok this is another alternative to consider and perhaps develop. But it takes time to create that network of trusted P2P traders.
Maybe I was looking for something more immediate and direct but obviously with the best and acceptable security (at least what we can have).
As far as I know you can do atomic swaps for ETH and back, but atomic swaps are still considered to be unripe tech, so as far as security and reliability goes.... Who knows? If you want to stick to non-KYC exchanges I know Poloniex and Mexc are still somewhat semi non-KYC.
On which platform can you do atomic swaps between BTC and ETH? I couldn't find anything online (maybe I need to look into it further).
For the security concerns I understand are something new and not intesively tested but even on well-known CEX there could be security concerns and limits, I guess.
As far as I know you can do atomic swaps for ETH and back, but atomic swaps are still considered to be unripe tech, so as far as security and reliability goes.... Who knows? If you want to stick to non-KYC exchanges I know Poloniex and Mexc are still somewhat semi non-KYC.
Also, there is at least one gambling site I know with an internal exchange. That also breaks up the chain interaction without using a CEX, but you'd likely get in trouble if you only used the site as an exchange.
Not a bad idea actually. Betfury has a multiple network support for Bitcoin which I sometimes use to send my Bitcoin to exchange with lesser fee specifically BSC Bitcoin. But doing this will automatically subject your deposit to x1 wagering requirements which is very risky since all of the casino has a house edge which means it’s guaranteed that you will lose part of the funds just to complete the wagering requirements for withdrawal.
But this is more convenient for me as a gambler compared to using multiple bridge that charge huge fee and has a lot of risked to lose my money in one wrong transaction.
There is another, solution that doesn't require interaction between chains. P2P trading. It's actually one of my favourite liquidation methods, though mostly because I have my own "web of trust", get my cash fairly quickly (minutes, rather than hours) and get precise rates far better than a CEX or DEX Swap.
That's right, I didn't think about it.
Maybe something like bisq?
I like Bisq, I even liked Localbitcoins, but no, I was talking about non-platformed P2P.
So, with Bisq you've to run a software, with LBC alternatives you give up custody of your coins, you'd use both to protect yourself with escrow (in the case of Bisq a deposit guarantee).
My P2P is talking to an actual person, agreeing a rate of exchange. We send each other the respective coins. I understand I use this as a privilege of knowing certain traders for years. But yes, if you start on Bisq or an LBC alternative, I guess Binance P2P is an easy way to start, you'll build your own "web of trust" and eventually just ditch the platforms.
Sorry if I insist but the central focus of the topic is also to have the specific notions on how to implement the chosen solution, I mean the various steps on how to complete the task.
Thanks and sorry because perhaps I didn't explain well at the beginning of the topic.
It's okay brother but the majority of the people here that hold bitcoin or buy and sell it won't really go into these networks if they're going to have it. Thanks and sorry because perhaps I didn't explain well at the beginning of the topic.
Bitcoin is good as is on its own network and blockchain and that's why some of the bitcoin enthusiasts don't really consider bitcoin on another chain as bitcoin but another altcoin like a fork one. Whether it's been bridged or not as long as it sits on another network, that's how they look at it and see how risky they are if someone holds some wrapped btc or btc(bsc), etc.
Sure I know but I think that many other have tried some of the solutions listed. I don't think everyone is just holding, waiting for BTC to reach 1 million, 10 million and then...? It takes knowledge to also have a plan B, C... you never know.
Anyway, let's just get this matter on whichever works for you then no one can argue with that if you've proven these methods and they're desirable to you. While those that don't really want to go with any of those methods and bridging, we'll just stay where it is and will be staying here as long as we can.
But the best is to move bitcoin to centralized exchange and convert or trade to any coin she or he wants.
Are you sure about this? Why a CEX should be better than, for example, the Atomic Swap or a DEX?
You said Bridges are not safe and I agree but CEXs could be unsafe too.
Sorry if I insist but the central focus of the topic is also to have the specific notions on how to implement the chosen solution, I mean the various steps on how to complete the task.
Thanks and sorry because perhaps I didn't explain well at the beginning of the topic.
It's okay brother but the majority of the people here that hold bitcoin or buy and sell it won't really go into these networks if they're going to have it. Thanks and sorry because perhaps I didn't explain well at the beginning of the topic.
Bitcoin is good as is on its own network and blockchain and that's why some of the bitcoin enthusiasts don't really consider bitcoin on another chain as bitcoin but another altcoin like a fork one. Whether it's been bridged or not as long as it sits on another network, that's how they look at it and see how risky they are if someone holds some wrapped btc or btc(bsc), etc.
Sure I know but I think that many other have tried some of the solutions listed. I don't think everyone is just holding, waiting for BTC to reach 1 million, 10 million and then...? It takes knowledge to also have a plan B, C... you never know.
I have been using SimpleSwap. Allows you to make a simple send tx instead of interacting with a smart contract.
Here is how it works: https://simpleswap.io/how-it-works
Here is how it works: https://simpleswap.io/how-it-works
I didn't know about this service so thank you for the suggestion. Maybe I need to find out more about how it works in details.
But if I'm not mistaken it would fall into group (3)?
Yes it will be then in group 3 as per the categories you have.
Sorry if I insist but the central focus of the topic is also to have the specific notions on how to implement the chosen solution, I mean the various steps on how to complete the task.
Thanks and sorry because perhaps I didn't explain well at the beginning of the topic.
It's okay brother but the majority of the people here that hold bitcoin or buy and sell it won't really go into these networks if they're going to have it. Thanks and sorry because perhaps I didn't explain well at the beginning of the topic.
Bitcoin is good as is on its own network and blockchain and that's why some of the bitcoin enthusiasts don't really consider bitcoin on another chain as bitcoin but another altcoin like a fork one. Whether it's been bridged or not as long as it sits on another network, that's how they look at it and see how risky they are if someone holds some wrapped btc or btc(bsc), etc.
Like you bridge 1 BTC to 1 Wrapped bitcoin on Avax, what if later you bridge it back and get like only 0.1 BTC?
So far bitcoin doesn't have any bridge rather op can move them exchange like centralized exchange to convert to any coin he wants order than bitcoin, you know just as you said it might not be safe for bitcoin to go have a bridge crossing from bitcoin blockchain to another chain, normal I don't think is possible except only for altcoin. We can bridge from Ethereum to Binance smart chain or bridge from Binance Smart chain to Matic with either little or more fees, this is the reason why I don't usually like bridge because you won't get exact value anymore. But the best is to move bitcoin to centralized exchange and convert or trade to any coin she or he wants.
I have been using SimpleSwap. Allows you to make a simple send tx instead of interacting with a smart contract.
Here is how it works: https://simpleswap.io/how-it-works
Here is how it works: https://simpleswap.io/how-it-works
I didn't know about this service so thank you for the suggestion. Maybe I need to find out more about how it works in details.
But if I'm not mistaken it would fall into group (3)?
Bridges are risky and there are many big hacks in cryptocurrency through bridges.
Blockchain Bridges Hacks
A Timeline and History of Recent Cross-Chain Bridge Attacks | Analog Insights
Bridging your Bitcoin to another blockchain, you no longer have Bitcoin but have Wrapped tokens. These wrapped tokens are not bitcoin and you might not be able to bridge it back to Bitcoin and get your initial value. It depends on liquidity pool and that bridge, peg of the wrapped token.
Like you bridge 1 BTC to 1 Wrapped bitcoin on Avax, what if later you bridge it back and get like only 0.1 BTC?
Blockchain Bridges Hacks
A Timeline and History of Recent Cross-Chain Bridge Attacks | Analog Insights
Bridging your Bitcoin to another blockchain, you no longer have Bitcoin but have Wrapped tokens. These wrapped tokens are not bitcoin and you might not be able to bridge it back to Bitcoin and get your initial value. It depends on liquidity pool and that bridge, peg of the wrapped token.
Like you bridge 1 BTC to 1 Wrapped bitcoin on Avax, what if later you bridge it back and get like only 0.1 BTC?
In the last 3 years, hacking reports have occurred with bridges comparable to CEX, which means that the possibility of losing your money is higher, and there is a possibility that the price of Wbtc token will decrease compared to the price of Bitcoin.
I know about the bridges vulnerabilities and about the possible depeg problem of those wrapped tokens that's why I presented more and alternatives ways
But I was asking for technical details on how to exchange BTC with another crypto (maybe a stable coin) on DEX. So I quote:There is another, solution that doesn't require interaction between chains. P2P trading. It's actually one of my favourite liquidation methods, though mostly because I have my own "web of trust", get my cash fairly quickly (minutes, rather than hours) and get precise rates far better than a CEX or DEX Swap.
In fact, I'll be exchanging some Tether I've been holding for a while now for Bitcoin, that's probably going to be done P2P -- I send the guy my Tether, he sends me Bitcoin. You can find such traders on this forum's currency exchange sub-section.
Also, there is at least one gambling site I know with an internal exchange. That also breaks up the chain interaction without using a CEX, but you'd likely get in trouble if you only used the site as an exchange.
In fact, I'll be exchanging some Tether I've been holding for a while now for Bitcoin, that's probably going to be done P2P -- I send the guy my Tether, he sends me Bitcoin. You can find such traders on this forum's currency exchange sub-section.
Also, there is at least one gambling site I know with an internal exchange. That also breaks up the chain interaction without using a CEX, but you'd likely get in trouble if you only used the site as an exchange.
So far I haven't tried any of the solutions discussed by the OP, but to me P2P still seems like a better option than the others. For me there are only two options, buying on a centralized exchange or P2P with only a few trusted users. Additionally, I'm not a fan of bitcoin between different chains, meaning it's just bitcoin, not wrapped bitcoin or anything else.
That's right, I didn't think about it.
Maybe something like bisq?
sideshift.ai is a KYC service, They can request your data at any time, with the possibility that your assets will be frozen.
I didn't know. This service was suggested elsewhere but if it actually works in this way, maybe I'll remove it from the list.
I would never touch any altcoin network or bridge with a ten foot pole.
They are nothing but high-tech vehicles for committing fraud, scams and hacks and the idiots using them lose millions on a daily basis.
There are scams indeed and I don't know much about bridges and I only know one which is used in axie infinity. I don't know why OP think of that way as safe and I think it's what OP preferred to use when there's a high risk when using it. Anyway, I might use other ways to convert BTC but there's only one platform I am using to convert BTC to another crypto and you only have to send it and provide wallet address to receive the crypto you exchanged it to although there's not much crypto supported.They are nothing but high-tech vehicles for committing fraud, scams and hacks and the idiots using them lose millions on a daily basis.
I don't really understand the point of those posts
I am precisely asking for information about the various possibilities so I can choose the best and safest one for my needs.
I didn't use any of the solutions presented. I reported them after looking about those a bit online and beacuse they exist and, I repeat, to ask you for advice. Especially from the practical point of view on how to do what is described.
Sorry if I insist but the central focus of the topic is also to have the specific notions on how to implement the chosen solution, I mean the various steps on how to complete the task.
Thanks and sorry because perhaps I didn't explain well at the beginning of the topic.
I have been using SimpleSwap. Allows you to make a simple send tx instead of interacting with a smart contract.
Here is how it works: https://simpleswap.io/how-it-works
Then when on other chains, you can swap on the many dexs. Check out https://swap.defillama.com/ which aggregates multiple dexs.
You can also use Rabby wallet which has an aggregator within the wallet itself.
I haven't used a lot of Bitcoin native dexs to swap to Stables, so can't comment on that part.
Here is how it works: https://simpleswap.io/how-it-works
Then when on other chains, you can swap on the many dexs. Check out https://swap.defillama.com/ which aggregates multiple dexs.
You can also use Rabby wallet which has an aggregator within the wallet itself.
I haven't used a lot of Bitcoin native dexs to swap to Stables, so can't comment on that part.
So far I haven't tried any of the solutions discussed by the OP, but to me P2P still seems like a better option than the others. For me there are only two options, buying on a centralized exchange or P2P with only a few trusted users. Additionally, I'm not a fan of bitcoin between different chains, meaning it's just bitcoin, not wrapped bitcoin or anything else.
I would never touch any altcoin network or bridge with a ten foot pole.
They are nothing but high-tech vehicles for committing fraud, scams and hacks and the idiots using them lose millions on a daily basis.
There are scams indeed and I don't know much about bridges and I only know one which is used in axie infinity. I don't know why OP think of that way as safe and I think it's what OP preferred to use when there's a high risk when using it. Anyway, I might use other ways to convert BTC but there's only one platform I am using to convert BTC to another crypto and you only have to send it and provide wallet address to receive the crypto you exchanged it to although there's not much crypto supported. They are nothing but high-tech vehicles for committing fraud, scams and hacks and the idiots using them lose millions on a daily basis.
I would never touch any altcoin network or bridge with a ten foot pole.
They are nothing but high-tech vehicles for committing fraud, scams and hacks and the idiots using them lose millions on a daily basis.
They are nothing but high-tech vehicles for committing fraud, scams and hacks and the idiots using them lose millions on a daily basis.
Bridges are risky and there are many big hacks in cryptocurrency through bridges.
Blockchain Bridges Hacks
A Timeline and History of Recent Cross-Chain Bridge Attacks | Analog Insights
Bridging your Bitcoin to another blockchain, you no longer have Bitcoin but have Wrapped tokens. These wrapped tokens are not bitcoin and you might not be able to bridge it back to Bitcoin and get your initial value. It depends on liquidity pool and that bridge, peg of the wrapped token.
Like you bridge 1 BTC to 1 Wrapped bitcoin on Avax, what if later you bridge it back and get like only 0.1 BTC?
Blockchain Bridges Hacks
A Timeline and History of Recent Cross-Chain Bridge Attacks | Analog Insights
Bridging your Bitcoin to another blockchain, you no longer have Bitcoin but have Wrapped tokens. These wrapped tokens are not bitcoin and you might not be able to bridge it back to Bitcoin and get your initial value. It depends on liquidity pool and that bridge, peg of the wrapped token.
Like you bridge 1 BTC to 1 Wrapped bitcoin on Avax, what if later you bridge it back and get like only 0.1 BTC?
You are right in saying this, the risk is high when doing a transaction via bridge called on dex platforms. And I haven't tried that either because I think it's really high risk and prone to hackers and I don't want that to happen to me.
There are also disadvantages because that is true, especially when it comes to security like in centralized bridges, which usually happens that they only rely on the central authority, to manage the transfer of assets. It usually creates single point failures that become a way for hackers to enter and compromise it. And one example of this is what happened in Axie Infinity year 2022 month of March https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/2022/10/14/blockchain-bridges-keep-getting-attacked-heres-how-to-prevent-it/
In the last 3 years, hacking reports have occurred with bridges comparable to CEX, which means that the possibility of losing your money is higher, and there is a possibility that the price of Wbtc token will decrease compared to the price of Bitcoin.
(3) SWAP on CEX no-KYC
Centralized solution but with the usual doubts about which are the best no-KYC CEXs? the most recommended from a safety, reliability and cost-effectiveness point of view.
For example:
sideshift.ai is a KYC service, They can request your data at any time, with the possibility that your assets will be frozen. Centralized solution but with the usual doubts about which are the best no-KYC CEXs? the most recommended from a safety, reliability and cost-effectiveness point of view.
For example:
- sideshift.ai
Maybe if all i need to do without all these is to run a full node and maintain my security and privacy with bitcoin and never risk having interactions with any of the mentioned process, i think using bitcoin will still be safe for us to achieve the best we want in terms of privacy, not everyone like dealing with a centralized institution, we can achieve our target through the p2p network and and also consider using any other means to swap for bitcoin as void if the risk is more than the benefit, though i still maintain my stay with the p2p network for my bitcoin.
There is another, solution that doesn't require interaction between chains. P2P trading. It's actually one of my favourite liquidation methods, though mostly because I have my own "web of trust", get my cash fairly quickly (minutes, rather than hours) and get precise rates far better than a CEX or DEX Swap.
In fact, I'll be exchanging some Tether I've been holding for a while now for Bitcoin, that's probably going to be done P2P -- I send the guy my Tether, he sends me Bitcoin. You can find such traders on this forum's currency exchange sub-section.
Also, there is at least one gambling site I know with an internal exchange. That also breaks up the chain interaction without using a CEX, but you'd likely get in trouble if you only used the site as an exchange.
In fact, I'll be exchanging some Tether I've been holding for a while now for Bitcoin, that's probably going to be done P2P -- I send the guy my Tether, he sends me Bitcoin. You can find such traders on this forum's currency exchange sub-section.
Also, there is at least one gambling site I know with an internal exchange. That also breaks up the chain interaction without using a CEX, but you'd likely get in trouble if you only used the site as an exchange.
Bridges are risky and there are many big hacks in cryptocurrency through bridges.
Blockchain Bridges Hacks
A Timeline and History of Recent Cross-Chain Bridge Attacks | Analog Insights
Bridging your Bitcoin to another blockchain, you no longer have Bitcoin but have Wrapped tokens. These wrapped tokens are not bitcoin and you might not be able to bridge it back to Bitcoin and get your initial value. It depends on liquidity pool and that bridge, peg of the wrapped token.
Like you bridge 1 BTC to 1 Wrapped bitcoin on Avax, what if later you bridge it back and get like only 0.1 BTC?
Blockchain Bridges Hacks
A Timeline and History of Recent Cross-Chain Bridge Attacks | Analog Insights
Bridging your Bitcoin to another blockchain, you no longer have Bitcoin but have Wrapped tokens. These wrapped tokens are not bitcoin and you might not be able to bridge it back to Bitcoin and get your initial value. It depends on liquidity pool and that bridge, peg of the wrapped token.
Like you bridge 1 BTC to 1 Wrapped bitcoin on Avax, what if later you bridge it back and get like only 0.1 BTC?
Hello everyone,
I'm posting a specific and more technical topic to ask for advice on the various solutions for switching from the native BTC network to another network (perhaps a Layer 2 of ETH or even another network) and then (eventually, I know that BTC on BTC is always better
) exchange/sell for another crypto/stable.
I should have come to the conclusion that there are these ways:
(1) Bridge to DEX and then SWAP
Let's start with perhaps the most used and simplest solution even if my doubts remain about the safety of bringing BTC from the native network to another network using Bridges which in the past have been targeted by attacks and major bugs (unless I don't say anything stupid about this last fact).
To do this I found these:
Which of the 3 alternatives do you recommend?
Are there others?
Advantages and disadvantages?
THORswap seems very simple and direct and perhaps even the Avalanche bridge but obviously I ask for advice from those who have used them and can therefore say from personal experience the pros and cons of each alternative.
Trivial or stupid question:
If I bridge BTC on network "X" and then exchange BTC for another crypto (and then perhaps exchange again returning to BTC), am I always at risk for a possible hack of the smart contract with which I brought BTC from the native network to "'X"?
I don't even know if the sentence is conceptually correct but I hope I have conveyed the idea by writing "trivial or stupid question" because I am not clear on how bridges and the various smart contracts associated with the mint (or other) of tokens works from a network to the other.
(2) Direct Atomic SWAP
Another interesting possibility to overcome some problems of solution (1) and also (4), I suppose.
I haven't gone into detail on exactly how this works but maybe can solve the problem of using a Bridge and being at risk of some smart contract hack/exploit or whatever.
But I only found this:
Reliable?
Are there other similar alternatives?
Do you recommend this solution or something else?
(3) SWAP on CEX no-KYC
Centralized solution but with the usual doubts about which are the best no-KYC CEXs? the most recommended from a safety, reliability and cost-effectiveness point of view.
For example:
Others?
Advantages and disadvantages?
(4) SWAP on classic CEX
I don't think there is much to say on this point. If not raise some alerts in case multiple BTC are swapped
I wanted to summarize all the various possible solutions to have a complete picture and help many to make the right choice, which is not always easy if you are not aware of other possible paths that may be preferable. In fact, if there are other solutions that I don't know about, please let us know here
Any possible help is always welcomed and can help the entire community.
Thanks to everyone <3
I'm posting a specific and more technical topic to ask for advice on the various solutions for switching from the native BTC network to another network (perhaps a Layer 2 of ETH or even another network) and then (eventually, I know that BTC on BTC is always better
) exchange/sell for another crypto/stable.I should have come to the conclusion that there are these ways:
- Bridge to DEX and then SWAP
- Direct Atomic SWAP
- SWAP on CEX no-KYC
- SWAP on classic CEX
(1) Bridge to DEX and then SWAP
Let's start with perhaps the most used and simplest solution even if my doubts remain about the safety of bringing BTC from the native network to another network using Bridges which in the past have been targeted by attacks and major bugs (unless I don't say anything stupid about this last fact).
To do this I found these:
- THORSwap
- Threshold (tBTC)
- Avalanche Bridge
Which of the 3 alternatives do you recommend?
Are there others?
Advantages and disadvantages?
THORswap seems very simple and direct and perhaps even the Avalanche bridge but obviously I ask for advice from those who have used them and can therefore say from personal experience the pros and cons of each alternative.
Trivial or stupid question:
If I bridge BTC on network "X" and then exchange BTC for another crypto (and then perhaps exchange again returning to BTC), am I always at risk for a possible hack of the smart contract with which I brought BTC from the native network to "'X"?
I don't even know if the sentence is conceptually correct but I hope I have conveyed the idea by writing "trivial or stupid question" because I am not clear on how bridges and the various smart contracts associated with the mint (or other) of tokens works from a network to the other.
(2) Direct Atomic SWAP
Another interesting possibility to overcome some problems of solution (1) and also (4), I suppose.
I haven't gone into detail on exactly how this works but maybe can solve the problem of using a Bridge and being at risk of some smart contract hack/exploit or whatever.
But I only found this:
- Komodo Wallet(formerly AtomicDEX)
Reliable?
Are there other similar alternatives?
Do you recommend this solution or something else?
(3) SWAP on CEX no-KYC
Centralized solution but with the usual doubts about which are the best no-KYC CEXs? the most recommended from a safety, reliability and cost-effectiveness point of view.
For example:
- exch.cx
- sideshift.ai
Others?
Advantages and disadvantages?
(4) SWAP on classic CEX
I don't think there is much to say on this point. If not raise some alerts in case multiple BTC are swapped
I wanted to summarize all the various possible solutions to have a complete picture and help many to make the right choice, which is not always easy if you are not aware of other possible paths that may be preferable. In fact, if there are other solutions that I don't know about, please let us know here
Any possible help is always welcomed and can help the entire community.
Thanks to everyone <3
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