Something i'm not clear on. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Trongersoll

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Quote from: larrymix on July 09, 2013, 03:57:40 PM

Trongersoll,

Did you ever get any response to this question? I have the very same question and I am curious about the topic. I have been running bitcoin-qt in server mode trying to experiment with solo mining, but there is so little feedback from the mining software when running solo it is hard to tell if I should have been using bitcoind instead.

Let me know what you have heard if anything please. I would be happy to continue on this topic if I find out more too.

Thanks,

/larry

actually, the answers i sought are in this thread. I was more interested in understanding the system than solo mining.

larrymix

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Trongersoll,

Did you ever get any response to this question? I have the very same question and I am curious about the topic. I have been running bitcoin-qt in server mode trying to experiment with solo mining, but there is so little feedback from the mining software when running solo it is hard to tell if I should have been using bitcoind instead.

Let me know what you have heard if anything please. I would be happy to continue on this topic if I find out more too.

Thanks,

/larry

Trongersoll

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Quote from: DannyHamilton on May 25, 2013, 09:38:20 PM

Quote from: Trongersoll on May 25, 2013, 07:56:43 PM

I think i get it, everybody doesn't start with a nounce = 1.

Yes, everyone typically starts with nonce = 1, it is other data in the block that is unique for each miner. The transactions that they choose to include in their block, the order of those transactions, the timestamp, the input to the coinbase transaction (sometimes called "extra-nonce").

Ok, now that makes sense. everyone isn't looking for exactly the same next block. Nounce isn't the only variable.

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: Trongersoll on May 25, 2013, 07:56:43 PM

I think i get it, everybody doesn't start with a nounce = 1.

Yes, everyone typically starts with nonce = 1, it is other data in the block that is unique for each miner. The transactions that they choose to include in their block, the order of those transactions, the timestamp, the input to the coinbase transaction (sometimes called "extra-nonce").

Trongersoll

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I think i get it, everybody doesn't start with a nounce = 1.

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: Trongersoll on May 25, 2013, 01:17:58 PM

isn't the hashing sequential?

No. The results of hashing are essentially random, and every miner is mining a slightly different block.

It is a bit like rolling dice.

Lets say I give you 1 die, and your friend 2 dice. Then I tell you that the "winner" is the first person to roll a number less than 2.

Your friends chances are twice as good as yours of rolling a number less than 2 on any single roll since he's rolling twice as many dice. In the long run, he's going to win more often than you are. However, on any given roll, you could roll a low enough value and your friend might not.

Now just imagine that the dice the two of you are rolling have 2²⁵⁶ sides, and that the number of hashes per second that each of you can calculate is actually the number of dice each of you are rolling. The current bitcoin network "difficulty" is the number that you have to roll less than to "win". Can you see why sometimes the person with less dice (less hashes per second) might "win"?

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Quote from: Trongersoll on May 25, 2013, 02:12:51 PM

Quote from: Lethos on May 25, 2013, 01:27:54 PM

Even if you (or your pool) have a really high total hash rate, does not guarantee every block for you or that pool.

this is what i don't get. why is this true?

Because finding blocks is like a lottery. Having more hashrate just means you have more tickets, but you can win even with 1 ticket. 1 hash=1ticket Wink

Lethos

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Keep it Simple. Every Bit Matters.

Quote from: Trongersoll on May 25, 2013, 02:12:51 PM

Quote from: Lethos on May 25, 2013, 01:27:54 PM

Even if you (or your pool) have a really high total hash rate, does not guarantee every block for you or that pool.

this is what i don't get. why is this true?

This analogue is not ideal, but it's the best I can do at the moment.

It's like asking, why does that one kid seem to still manage to find a needle in 10 million haystacks every so often, when we got a 10,000 army.
There is always a chance, that one kid starts in a different place and finds it quicker by chance, as he was nearer from the beginning.

The number of combinations is massive, so even small miners can find a block, it just won't happen very often. As that is all a miner is doing really brute forcing through every combination, kind of randomly.

Trongersoll

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Quote from: Lethos on May 25, 2013, 01:27:54 PM

Even if you (or your pool) have a really high total hash rate, does not guarantee every block for you or that pool.

this is what i don't get. why is this true?

Lethos

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Keep it Simple. Every Bit Matters.

Even if you (or your pool) have a really high total hash rate, does not guarantee every block for you or that pool.
While it is true, those with a higher hash rate will solve more blocks per day generally speaking, it also has to be split more ways usually.
The "little guys" mine via a pool and get their guaranteed returns that way.
Even small pools get lucky enough to give good returns, just sometimes with more variance in how often they can pay out what is owed.

It is a pretty fair system as long as you are sensible and mine at a pool with fair fees and uptime.
I have always like to support the smaller pools, with low fees, rather than bigger ones, that provide (often more) reliable payouts.

Trongersoll

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thanks

one more thing i don't get. it seems like it is a race for the miners to get the next block. Why don't the fastest miners (or most powerful pools) get all the blocks? What are the little guys doing to get their slice of the pie? isn't the hashing sequential?

Lethos

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Keep it Simple. Every Bit Matters.

This is a rather large generalisation;
They are essentially the same, but in different modes.

Bitcoind - Minimal interface ideal for using on a server (command line and RPC)
bitcoin-qt - Full GUI designed for using on a normal PC.

So they both implement the bitcoin protocols and can have a wallet and download the block chain to allow for sending and receiving of Bitcoins and more.

In a sense, bitcoind is playing it's part in the verification, since they are implemented in Bitcoin mining pools (example) as it receives data from the miners, that verifies transaction blocks. The block chain, which is available to both, maintains the "list" of transactions and their blocks.

Trongersoll

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There is bitcoind and bitcoin-qt. I understand that qt is the wallet client.

Is bitcoind part of qt as well as standalone, a component of qt?

when blocks miners found are being verified, is bitcoind doing the verification?

Transactions included in a block are determined by the miner, does bitcoind maintain the list of transactions looking for inclusion?

if my questions don't make sense, well, I'm confused. Huh

Topic: Something i'm not clear on. (Read 703 times)