Topic: Sorry guys.. Bitcoin is not for our day-to-day transactions. (Read 695 times)

It will be very hard to get *everyone* using Bitcoin. I will be happy, if a simple majority of the world population approves the usage of Bitcoin. But we have a long way to go before we reach that level. Right now the user base is around 100 million, and that needs to be increased by 40x or 50x before we can claim world-wide acceptability. And as you said, scalability is a concern, but hopefully a few hard forks can resolve it.

Actually, I am talking about direct transactions from my Bitcoin wallet. Where else can I get cheap transaction fees? Most online wallet services charge a flat (and expensive fee).

In general, I'm still able to spend the min fee (1 sat/byte) for almost all my transactions, since the people I send to don't mind the wait. Even at $40k BTC, that's still less than 10 cents. And as I pointed out, with Lightning soon people will be opening channels with each other, paying multiple times with virtually no charge.

Debit card? Fees are ridiculously high (or spreads ridiculously wide).

I think the hardcore crypto nuts believe Bitcoin can replace fiat currencies while I'm more moderate and believe that Bitcoin can exist in the form of a commodity or be used as a currency alongside currencies like USD. Day to day transactions aren't a stretch if merchants can deal with transaction fees and confirmation times. Network being overloaded is a concern, but presumably that's something that could be hashed out once mainstream adoption is wide enough that *everyone* is using BTC.

Bitcoin as a Cryptocurrency which is also a currency can be used for our day-to-day transactions. All currencies w have always experienced one point of low value and these can be as a result of so many factors, so bitcoin will not be an exception because of the price change. We’re going to be making use of our bitcoin and wish more institutions and big business owners accepts bitcoin in their business so we can easily carry out our bitcoin transactions in almost all sectors with fair transfer charges.

This is one of the advantages in paying with BitPay BTC or PayPal BTC (PayPal hasn't yet made the full services available to the users). With these third party processors, we can expect instant confirmations and low transaction fee. But the centralized system means that anonymity is lost, and sometimes keeping your coins in institutional wallets can be an unnecessary risk. But then the user has the choice - whether to go for these third party processors, or to pay directly with Bitcoin.

I personally think that the value that bitcoins bring is not the intangible coin itself but the technology behind this revolutionary transaction process.

Shifting towards a cashless society where the currency is very volatile with a limited supply of only 21 million would cause serious disturbances and manipulation on the price due to whales.

The blockchain technology, on the other hand, is the true gold. In the near future, businesses would apply this to their transactions which eliminate the need for a third-party consensus.

Maybe. But it's up to one's reasoning anyway on why and how they use their Bitcoin. I partially do hold and use it for payment. It's just a matter of convenience, and I separate my paying money to my investment anyway so there ain't single thing to worry in my part.
I slightly agree with some people saying here that it could lead to losses so why use your Bitcoin for payment, but again, I mentioned how I use "my Bitcoin".

I guess you are pointing the 1MB block size is a limitation of bitcoin which it is but; the size isn't limited to 1MB instead of 4 Virtual MB. On top of that, off-chain tx system like Lighting Network will have another effect and this limited blocksize won't matter anymore once LN have acceptance everywhere; LN isdesigned for making micropayments.

For transaction fees, maybe I can't conclude correctly because I haven't done anything with bitcoin for a long time, but if this was true in the past, as is the case with Ethereum, which is now busy because the gas fee is quite high so those who use it for transactions really object to bitcoin also changed I can't conclude.

clearly altcoins are more often used as a means of payment compared to bitcoin because it is clear that the volume of altcoins is bigger and so much that it needs to be used as a means of payment. I agree that bitcoin is already an investment asset and is definitely the same as currency but not the same as fiat.

Long back many claimed that bitcoin is having less transaction fees. How the heck? Bitcoin is only for transacting bulk amount from one country to another. More alt coins are getting used for day to day transaction due to low fees. Hope the same would happen with bitcoin also. Bitcoin have evolved as an assets instead of transaction currency. people love to hold it as an  asset instead of suing as currency.

What are those silly things you're talking about? Are groceries silly? I wouldn't say that sustaining yourself is unimportant. I hold to buy things in future, that's a fact. I don't see any other use for bitcoin outside of speculation/trading and saving up to buy things. I'm sure one day I'll be able to do it and believe me, I will not regret it. The ultimate goal of every type of money is to buy us things we need. Without this currencies would be useless. What is silly and what is not is a matter of perspective. For someone who lives in the South Africa, a winter coat will be useless, but someone in Finland will not be able to live without it.

I think that you aren't talking about direct transactions from your bitcoin wallet because it's very unprofitable to do transactions daily via bitcoin wallet. If you want to send $30, you'll have to pay almost half of this (if not more).
So, I think that you are using bitcoin debit card, right? Then, without a doubt, it's amazing, especially if you own Binance card, they offer cashback on each payment (but at the same time this service comes with a lot of problems as I see).

Btw I agree with the OP, bitcoin isn't for day-to-day transactions and it was never meant for massive usage, that's why we implemented segwit but somehow businesses don't even try to offer segwit payments.

here are few bitcointalk threads that list merchants or stores that accepts btc

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-of-stuff-you-can-use-bitcoin-for-3097705
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/spending-bitcoincom-the-biggest-directory-of-online-stores-accepting-bitcoin-5198903

on the second link it says the site has a list of over 1000 plus stores that accepts btc . thats huge but that was posted last two years ago . now we are now in 2021 and they are probably added more stores , the list goes on as the adoption for btc moves on .

that shows that volatility and government regulation were not a hindrance to come up with such solutions  . store owners /merchants have done doing their part now its about our time to do the same and that is to use btc for spending if we havent .

The last part mostly the reason why, people still tends to use regular fiat as they find it more convenient using the same system to deal

with your regular transactions. We can't deny the fact that there are only few people and businesses who understand crypto / bitcoin and

with that the availabilities of bitcoin transactions is still small.

Honestly if btc is to be use as an alternative currency to create greater adoption, then it will be better to disregard the fiat value and let it just be btc, if people keep measuring the value with usdt and with a price tag that keeps growing from time to time, it will be hard for some to spend btc on a daily basis because anytime a comparison of the amount btc to usdt is made, it will always seem that person is overspending,
It would have been better btc was never pegged to any fiat currency, there would be no speculation and manipulate or volatility.

It is true that Bitcoin is currently not used as a day to day transactions, because there are still not many merchants that accept Bitcoin payments.
Maybe because the price of Bitcoin is volatile and it may also be due to government regulations. So it's still hard to find a place to spend Bitcoin,
after all, to buy daily necessities it is still more comfortable to use fiat for now. So it still takes time for Bitcoin to be used for our day to day
transactions.

It will be advantageous if it is on large scale transactions specially on those large and well known companies but for low tiered companies it will be a problem most specially when paying transactions fees of bitcoins which is relatively higher than the usual over the counter payment or bank payments.

Bitcoin is a multi-purpose asset. As of now the day to day transaction through bitcoin is very low compared to the large volume transactions and fiat transaction happening on different needs. Scenario will change, but the importance it has gained as an investment and the growth happening with time restricts people from using it on daily needs. Another important factor is the transaction fee, maybe a decrease in the transaction cost will enrich users prefer bitcoin on daily transaction.

If you check the facts, it is a decentralized currency and the long term plan of Satoshi will be a currency that could be used for everyday transactions but did he complete the project before going dark. So in hindsight it was an experimental project and hence Satoshi did not even stay long to make necessary changes and the people who were hooked with the project started contributing and it is still under development when it comes to scaling.

Right now it is a speculative market and i am still hoping we will find a proper solution for scaling rather than having third party solutions.

Yeah because of those people who have been using Bitcoin on day to day basis the community becomes larger. If everyone keeps using Bitcoin as a currency a lot of institutions will now gradually accepting it as payment. However, the fees could really kill us sometimes and that sucks I hope that sooner this won't be a problem. Those fees are the problem why everyone having a doubt to use it as a currency that is why they choose it works as an asset. Being used in day to day transactions or as assets it doesn't matter you could choose whatever you want to do with it as long as the community is getting bigger that is all matters.

For everyone, the value of bitcoin is determined by their own views. And as you can see from the answers, everyone has different preferences. The OP offers the most reasonable solution, I would add that, if possible, you should not spend, but purchase bitcoin regularly. But as it was said here correctly, sometimes there comes a moment when the price of bitcoin can suit someone, and he starts selling it. There may be different reasons. All actions will remain correct. Since this is a  Bitcoin, and any rules for its use should not be attached to it.

Nah, I don't know If you believe that there's actually people who has been spending their Btc in a day to day basis. Though the amount isn't that huge, but they're actually using Btc to pay for service or for a booking. And they are totally aware of the fact that they might been paying more than just the usual price because of Btc's high volatility, but these people are what you called Bitcoin enthusiast and a Bitcoin supporter. These people doesn't only want to make a good profit out of its volatile nature, but also wanted Bitcoin to grow and become a mainstream payment option in the future. Bitcoin is supposed to be used as a currency to create a greater adoption.

First of all Bitcoin is not only a digital asset.
It’s used in various payment methods in various places if you aren’t aware of.
Moreover BTC is handy to use than Gold.
So first of all stop comparing it to gold.
And it would be better if you don’t do any transactions or trading with BTC for few days.
I am sure the fees will be normal in few days.

"Sorry guys.. Gold is not for our day-to-day transactions." 

Edited the title of thread to what your actually saying. Bitcoin just like Gold bars is not supposed to be used for day to day transactions.

No, bitcoin was originally conceived as an alternative means of payment to the existing payment system specifically for everyday transactions. However, their number has now grown so much that, given the sharp increase in its price, it has really become profitable to use it only for large transactions. Perhaps this status will be fixed for bitcoin.

However, it does not imply that bitcoin is a perfect medium to use as a system for payments. It is not only you who uses it for gambling and spending for other things. Many users also use it with much complaints on the high fees and long confirmation times. We should be realists.

The idea behind the creation of bitcoin was to bring into existence an alternative currency to the fiat system. It technically didn't present itself as an asset although it does has the features of one due to its finite supply and the fact that it's tradable. Assuming bitcoin was foresaw as a potential investment vehicle, maybe the price would had been trading at outrageous prices by now because the elite would had bought all the bitcoin from circulation as they're trying to do now under the disguise of been Institutional investors.

Bitcoin can bought be used as an asset and a currency, it has these features already built into its network. One shouldn't be discouraged while the otheyis been advocated for. We need both features ti succeed in order for bitcoin to become a success. It'll be worthless when bitcoin is priced high yet can't be used for purchasing anything as a currency it claims to be.

In regards to the day to day transaction, it's no news that bitcoin is been used already for these type of transaction. If your region that have any of those options yet that doesn't mean other regions don't have.

Yes that kinda true remain like this with same total supply and 1mb per block

Bitcoin is higher fee because so many transaction and the price keep rising up for hodl is good choice
Even the omni token has higher fee

I think for daily use we can use altcoin like ethereum or litecoin maybe

You have a pretty good area surrounding you then, a lot of business accepting cryptocurrency payments is something. Although, I have to disagree with you, for me it is not a day to day if in general consensus because a lot of businesses are tied to banking institutions and small businesses do not want to gamble by getting into cryptocurrency as part of their daily transaction, maybe for some it can be like yours but for me on a practical standpoint I do not think so.

With that, we can say that bitcoin for everyday transaction depends on the person. Some say here that they will not or cannot use bitcoin for their transactions daily but you are able to counter that. So maybe, it just varies from person to person and for their own reasons, one of which is the transaction fee.

As for me, I don't use bitcoin yet. Simply because I don't have many of it. If I have to spend, I convert some of it to fiat first then use that to pay my bills or buy for things. Otherwise, they're only there and is stored for hodling. If I think that my earning in bitcoin is enough, then might as well use it directly for my daily transactions.

Somehow, the explanation of OP is what really the truth is and I can't deny it but it seems to me that only those people who thinks Bitcoin is for investment only and not for day-to-day transaction. Bitcoin is designed as a currency and because of people starting to adopt to it the value of it is increasing. So for people who spent Bitcoin for everyday use that is how we use Bitcoin and for holding forever, you can't enjoy your reward if you keep holding it waiting for the right time to dump. Sell some and reward yourself!

Well, I agree with you on this and you have a point. Bitcoin is really good for the transition because it is very easy and fast upon moving your fund. But the problem is people don't want to spend their bitcoin, we understand them because I am doing the same to them, I don't want to spend my bitcoin because I know this is a very promising asset if we are going to hold this for a long time and take profit when the price too much high as we purchase bitcoin. This could be the reason among us not to choose daily transactions.

If it is about transactions, yeah it is surely, Moreover, we know that besides the fee is very high, we may not be able to find many merchants around us to make a certain transaction with Bitcoin. Moreover, as what happeneds in my country, BTC is not legal for transactions or payments. So, it is very limited.

But it is also something very valuable that we cannot miss. Besides proving very valuable log=term investment, Bitcoin is also very promising for day traders, both spot or even more to the future trading. I am not really good at future trading and I am still very new about it. But for sot, this si also profitable for the short term.

I ought to concur with this explanation here. In spite of the fact that I too utilize Bitcoin for my day to day exchanges particularly when crisis, by changing over it to begin with to my neighborhood money, but as much as conceivable I don't wish to utilize my Bitcoin but to hold it instep. I have seen how much it can advantage me more on the off chance that I would fair hold and treat Bitcoin as my speculation.At the end i experienced that Bitcoin is not for emergency right now but in future it will easy for emergency transactions when globally legalized.

Bitcoin is the central bank. You dont use the central bank for your day-to-day transactions but it is backing the whole ecosystem.

in my opinion it is true, that bitcoin is sufficient only as an asset to secure your money. not required as a whole transaction tool. bitcoin is invested, although there are many shops, as well as personnel services that allow payment with btcoin in my opinion it is better to use an alternative to fiat money. because bitcoin has a price value that continues to increase from time to time. cultivating bitcoin is very good for the future.

Maybe they will not agree about bitcoin now, but we can hope that it can become a reality in the future. Using third-party processors can be an alternative for people to pay, and I think they can try to look if there is another option to pay, so they do not have to pay using bitcoin if they doubt bitcoin. As the bitcoin price now increases so high and that attracts the fee to increase, maybe that is why people not to agree to use bitcoin.

Agreed. Some people are not yet ready to agree that Bitcoin is primarily used as a speculative investment asset now, rather than as a currency. Bitcoin can be used as a payment medium. But rather than using Bitcoin directly, it will be better to use third party services such as BitPay for this purpose. Third party processors can resolve the issue of high transaction fee and delays in getting confirmations.

As an asset, we do not have to use bitcoin for a day-to-day transaction. We have the other coins that have a low fee for making a transaction, and I am sure that it will come the day for us to use that coins to store our bitcoin for the other purposes. So if you want to have fiat, you can sell your bitcoin, and do not use bitcoin for another transaction instead to save more bitcoin. People will have their own decision to use bitcoin as their daily transaction or use the other altcoin because it is about comfortably for each person will be different.

Ahh, this point is something. I’m not sure how many agree on this but gradually bitcoin is showing up signs of highly valued asset. It has pass on worlds best assets such as gold, diamond, and idk may be rarest painting is getting faded in front of btc value. If btc would have been physical coin then one could just throw away 5-6 coins and buy whole villa with it. Lol

It seriously looks like asset with demanding value. Bitcoin has managed to get into everyone’s wallet even though we can’t pay for groceries and that’s win win situation.

yes, all of that is true and I agree, and if bitcoin is used as the main legal payment instrument it will be a bit of a hassle because the value of bitcoin is very volatile and there is also a limited supply of bitcoin as well.

People might think that with mass adoption, there will be more liquidity, higher volume on exchanges when more people actively join bitcoin tradings. It can be true but it does not mean that total circulating supply of bitcoin will be redistributed from the rich to the poor. The rich (bitcoin billionaires) will always hold the dominated amount of bitcoin, the poor can be the most active elements in the market and contribute most to volume but they will be still the poor.

With future and leverage trades, more adoption for such together with bigger adoption for bitcoin, volume and liquidity will increase.

These books are available for free in multiple formats: https://mises.org/library/murray-n-rothbard-books


Money as a means of preserving one's wealth is rather a secondary function for the reason that most folks have very high time preference. They strive to satisfy their needs as quickly as possible, can't afford to postpone consumption. Moreover, basic needs are what all people have to satisfy in order to survive despite the time preference they may have.


Bitcoin blockchain is a settlement layer on top of which we can build as many layers as we want.

those who have been in Bitcoin for a long time will understand that Bitcoin fees are never different...
I have noticed that the average fee for each Bitcoin transaction that I make varies and depends on the busyness of the network, what makes the fee look expensive is the already very high Bitcoin price. if the price of Bitcoin is below $ 10k, the fee we have to pay will not be as expensive as it is now.

Most people do use bitcoin as a digital currency for investment and to benefit from the very high fluctuation of bitcoin prices. However, if it is used as another payment option, the same as FIAT, people are still not fully interested, because of the increasing value of bitcoins. Just imagine the increase in the price of bitcoin able to penetrate $ 40k USD this year.

I also use Bitcoin as an investment asset and trade with bitcoin as well.

i think what he means is that we shouldnt spend our btc because btc value can grow more in value and we can regret it someday but i also like your point that we will only spend useful things that can help us but this also works on almost any currency and payment system we have .
 money is earned in hardwork so we should spend it wisely  .
 groceries and gas is i can say something that is valueable because we need food to live and we need gas to run the car for buying groceries or for other transporting purposes  . gas and food value can grow in price overtime too

I agree.
I think it's better to use your bitcoin mostly for buying very valuable/useful things that "increase or create values", or things that won't lose their value in the future without creating sufficient value for you.
So, it's better to use your bitcoin more for very useful things so you don't regret spending it in the future

With the amount needed for Bitcoin transaction to be successful, for sure not all can afford to use Bitcoin on a daily basis as a mode of payment for transaction fees are incredibly getting higher as time passes by. It is more likely Bitcoin is good as an investment asset rather than being of a payment option. Yes, Bitcoin is good for payment option as well but it seems that due to high transaction fees, people are more likely be treating Bitcoin to be used for investment opportunities. The reality is just that people would prefer exerting Bitcoin to be conducted as investment assets to gain profit instead of using it for small amount purchases considering you will be spending transaction fees on that and confirmation is taking long to be done as well. Having Bitcoin to serve as transactions method is good but now on a daily basis.

Thanks for the valuable information.  I will definitely read this book.

In my opinion, money has two functions - the function of payment and the function of saving.  Bitcoin is very efficient for preserving capital.  However, there is one caveat.  

Bitcoin is not an anonymous or private cryptocurrency.  If the owner of the bitcoins is not anonymous, then hackers and robbers can easily attack him.  Many people don't have enough technical knowledge to store their bitcoins on their own.  

Also Bitcoin is having difficulty performing the payment function.  These are technical difficulties due to the small block size.  7 billion people will not be able to use Bitcoin at the same time.  The number of daily transactions on the Bitcoin network is limited.  

The main advantage of Bitcoin is that it allows transactions of very large amounts of money.  

Therefore, in the future, I consider countries and large corporations as the main users of bitcoin.

People need to understand that under current scenario, Bitcoin is more useful as an investment asset rather than as a mode of payment. Anyway, who want to make payments in BTC, when it has appreciated by close to 300% during the last four months? For grocery shopping and all, what you need to do is to convert some of your BTC to gift cards. You can use these gift cards for shopping. Grocery items are priced in fiat currency anyway, and therefore it makes hardly any difference.

These are interesting questions the answer to which I found in one of the best books I have ever read "Mystery of Banking" by Murray N. Rothbard, an American economist of the Austrian school. I highly recommend you to look at his works, his arguments are very convincing and apt.

In his book, he claims that unlike consumer and capital goods, money performs only one function, which is facilitating exchange between individuals. So, it doesn't matter what the supply of money is if money is highly divisible. Any amount is to be considered enough if people can use it in their exchanges. The more money, the worse because it only results in an increase in the price of goods. The controllable supply of money is even worse because it constantly distorts market prices. Bitcoin is poised to solve this problem of managed supply because its supply cannot be altered, and also it is divisible enough to perform the function of exchange.

It was evident for years. Bitcoin transaction fees are too high to use it for making small purchases. Another problem is that sometimes you have to wait to long to get two confirmations.  

Bitcoin is one of the only assets in the world where the price of transacting is rises along with the price of the asset. So 20 sat/byte today is 4x more expensive than it was in July, and that's actually far below what it would take to secure getting a tx in the next block (currently 40 sat/byte).

The network itself is fast; its getting the confirmation that is the lengthy part. I transact in BTC 4-5 times a week and most of the time I'm not in a rush to receive the BTC, neither are my recipients in a rush to get their BTC. So cheap fees are fine with me. 

The 2nd layer architecture is there. More exchanges need to follow in Bitfinex's footsteps and accept Lightning and Liquid BTC, allowing customers to convert between the different 2nd layer solutions without having to pay a fee. Eventually those serious about transacting in BTC will find ways to incorporate these solutions in order to save money on fees...

Sky's the limit for BTC once more txs are offloaded from the main chain.

Yes, countries will definitely create a central bank currency (CBDC). 

Organizations registered in these countries (as well as citizens of these countries) will use this currency as a means of payment.  However, the question arises ...

How to determine the allowable volume of CBDC money supply (for each country)?  For example, one country will issue a large number of CBDCs and another country will issue a small amount of CBDCs. 

How to convert one currency to another?  Countries do not exist in isolation.  They interact with each other.  This is why a world reserve currency is needed.  In theory, it could have been gold. 

However, how to check how much gold is in the hands of the state?  This test is not easy. 

Bitcoin is another matter.  Thanks to the transparent blockchain, every country can easily prove that it controls its bitcoins.

How can you say that the bitcoin price will become stable after the mass adoption?? Also what are the parameters to understand if the mass adoption has reached! We've recently touched 41k and came back to 35 and again increasing slowly! In this way, what price seems realistic after mass adoption?

I think what OP is trying to make a simple point - bitcoin looks more attractive as an investment rather than a payment method! That's entirely true! People will definitely regret after 5 years if they use bitcoin to purchase something from store today because the price is constantly increasing!

Just think about the case of the first ever commercial bitcoin transaction worth 10,000 bitcoins for 2 pizzas! Hanyecz could be a billionaire by today!

I first got into BTC when it was around $400, and by the time I used it for my first "day-to-day" it was still around $600. It's today around 60 times that value and still hasn't stopped being useful for that purpose. You see, not every Bitcoiner thinks like you expect. Virtually all of my income now as a freelancer is paid in BTC. Sure, I hold as much as I can, but I see value in spending and using it. And a lot of others do as well.

Lightning is also a thing, by the way, and in places like Arnhem in the Netherlands, where Bitcoin merchants have already started adopting Lightning, people continue to use it to pay easily for smaller transactions. I easily see a future of $100k BTC where $1 transactions of 1000 satoshi are easily settled over Layer 2. $1 million BTC? 50 cents (50 satoshi payments) are just as easily done.

This may be the way you use Bitcon currently, but in the future you will change this approach. lets say 1 btc is now $100k, that means it is not what you can just use because you may not want to lose hold of that asset.

Hence, this is why i agree with the thread maker, in the nearest future, btc will be used for few transaction because the value will be so high that you can use it for small transactions.

I did not see it happen because bitcoin has already experiencng down trend and probably will going to continue for more due to the fact that many users now are earning with bitcoin after they sell everything they had. I myself had already selling even I had a little bit of btc holdings to get the chance to earn more while bitcoin market is high. Today, bitcoin market would probably go down depending on the bicoiner.

Do you think that states will use bitcoin as a reserve of central banks instead of gold and one hundred governments will use it as a digital asset to accumulate value? This will never happen because the nature of the state is completely different. Many states have now legalized bitcoin, that is, they have established its legal status and determined its order and conditions for walking in society, but they will not actively support it, that is, they will not create an infrastructure for its circulation and use it in international agreements.
They will use their central bank stablecoins, that is, their digitized currencies, and create various regional stablecoins based on their own currencies or the same gold.
So far, the cryptocurrency market has reached one trillion dollars, compared with 70 trillion in stock markets and 200 trillion dollars in the real estate market, and states consider cryptocurrency to be one that does not threaten the stability of the global financial system. It is still unknown how states will treat cryptocurrency in the future. Most likely, they will strengthen the legal regulation of cryptocurrencies in order to weaken their impact on society.

The biggest problem I face is not being able to use Bitcoin for our day to day transactions, not because of high Bitcoin transaction fees
or the volatile price of Bitcoin. But because the government in my country prohibits using Bitcoin for payments, so Bitcoin in my country is
legalized only as a digital asset.

Sometimes I am jealous to see people living in countries where the government does not prohibit using Bitcoin for financial transactions.
I agree that for now the fact is that Bitcoin is not ready to be used for day to day transactions. There are still many obstacles that must be
found the best solution first before using Bitcoin for day to day transactions.

If you will say Bitcoin directly to our day-to-day transaction then maybe I will agree with what you said.

Right now, I don't have any cash right now that didn't came into Bitcoin. It may not be used directly in my day to day transactions but my cash right now came from Bitcoin. You are saying this because there are not that much people using or accepting Bitcoin because of its problems like its fee and transaction speed but I believe that there will be a time that people will adopt into it and will choose to pay thru Bitcoin especially right now when there is a pandemic they'd rather pay thru BTC if they want rather than fiat.

Just wait for people to use Bitcoin and then post this thread again .

With my limited understanding on bitcoin and bitcoin transactions, I think there are 2 barriers for it to et bigger adoption as means of day-to-day transactions worldwide.
- Block size: The block size is capped and limit the maximum of transactions per block. The max transaction counts per block is not a fix number as it depends on total size of those transactions in a single block.
- Fee structure: Now, the rate of fee per vbyte (in satoshi) is decided by senders. They are components of fee race. The more people want to make transactions, the more hurry people who accept to take higher fees. At the ends, fee will automatically to be lifted up and only small senders (send small amount of bitcoin) will be charge a big percent of fee per total amount sent out.

- More adoption for Bech32 address on centralized exchanges (that I hope will increase in 2021).
- Increase the blocksize more, scale it up
- Second layer solution as Lightning network.
- Change the algorithm for fee structure (is it possible per protocol?): I think this point is very important and if it can be done, it would be a big boost for bitcoin adoption. Fee will be stable in satoshi/vbyte, for instance: X USD / vbyte and the more vbyte a transaction has, the more fee with be paid.

Only the fee in USD will be changed with bitcoin price in USD. Is it possible per Bitcoin protocol?

I had stopped dreaming about it ever since 2017 when Bitcoin first hit $20K or almost $20K.
The transaction has been so high ever since Bitcoin gain too much attention and too much price increased.
I realize that it wouldn't be used as a payment because of the transaction fee just imagine paying for coffee or food that is worth less than $10 and the transaction fee with Bitcoin would be more or less $1.
I know some people wouldn't care about it but most of us are saving money and would use anything to have a discount so using Bitcoin for us who are seeking to have cheaper transaction wouldn't really use Bitcoin for that kind of situation.

They won't. Bitcoin is a speculative assets and tends to have a very large fluctuation in price. The total market cap, or if we consider the actual market cap of Bitcoin is very low as compared to the markets of precious metals and other reserve assets. Governments can at best have a tiny percentage of it in Bitcoins and it is not practical.
Bitcoin is created as an alternative to government controlled currencies, no? Why would we care what government prefers.
Bitcoin can be divisible even further, it's just a matter of protocol change. The day 1 Bitcoin = 1 Million dollars isn't going to happen anytime soon, don't worry.

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I don't see the practicality of on-chain transactions solely for the fact that merchants can barely accept unconfirmed transactions and having a huge fees with most transactions. I see a future with lightning network and other similar offchain solutions taking the role of daily microtransactions and stuff.

I have to agree with this statement here. Although I also use Bitcoin for my day to day transactions especially when emergency, by converting it first to my local currency, but as much as possible I do not wish to use my Bitcoin but to hold it instead. I have witnessed how much it can benefit me more if I would just hold and treat Bitcoin as my investment.

you are wrong.
the only reason why bitcoin value keeps going up is because so far bitcoin adoption has been small and until we reach mass adoption it will continue to rise exactly like this.
but when the mass adoption is reached the value becomes a lot more stable than today so it won't be like waking up tomorrow seeing price has gone up 50%.
the only thing that will rise in the future is the price and that is only because the fiat is constantly tanking otherwise the value will remain the same.

Well, for me I would never use Bitcoin for everyday transactions as I would prefer the other altcoins designed specifically to be a digital currency of some sorts. Bitcoin is too valuable to even be used as payment for everyday items. Satoshis perhaps but I would think others would also prefer to use Ethereum or Litecoin, or even Dogecoin for such matters. Anyway, good luck to those who have already bought their cafe latte's using Bitcoin.

You are correct mate but it all depends on how we use Bitcoin in our daily lives. For us less fortunate we use it to buy or pay for something if we need to but for those living in the middle class and above they might use it for investment purposes.

Absolutely, Bitcoin is more a store of value than a medium of exchange at this point.  The large fees, and even lack of L2 solution, is a large reason the medium of exchange function isn't working.

Those who use BTC as Payment transaction for bills or for loading purposes regretted that they did that, they are more aware now that the price is able to increase if they will just hold or invest it. Those friends of mine who I know have BTC been monitoring the price and hopes they will able to buy again and will try not to use for simple transactions but just let it as their investment.

Yes, I agree with the author of this topic.  

Can Bitcoin be used as a means of payment?  Yes it is possible.  

How optimal is this?  Difficult question.  There are many other alternative payment methods.  

Can 7 billion people use Bitcoin as a means of payment?  No, this is technically impossible.  

Can technical restrictions be lifted?  In theory, yes.  However, it is more likely that Bitcoin will be used as the world's reserve currency (reserve asset), not a means of payment.

Thus, Bitcoin does not need technical improvements.  

Developers can focus on solving other problems - creating sidechains, creating algorithms that are resistant to being hacked by quantum computers, etc.

Bitcoin will never be stable until the mining goes on. Any different mining epoch will have to naturally adjust the price for miners to get their profit out and be able to pay for their bills, new equipment and so on. I believe this will avoid a stable price for a long time. Expect the ride to be bumpy and glorious at the same time.

It's great that you mentioned BTC bill payments (https://nowpayments.io/blog/pay-bills-with-bitcoin-btc) and groceries (https://nowpayments.io/blog/what-retailers-accept-bitcoin) - as more and more merchants do that.

You do have some interesting points!

Then what cryptocurrencies, in your opinion, are great for day-to-day transactions?

So far, this is true, but I hope the situation will change. Maybe there are ways to make these transactions something everyday.

That has been an obstacle for years but not always the main problem as the transaction fee can be paid only 1 says/byte and will be confirmed within 10 minutes, but whenever the price increase and too many queues on mempool then the fee goes up like crazy. Nonetheless, whoever wants to spend bitcoin on daily basis can do it with the lightning network or check the mempool before transact.

At some point, the price will stabilize, for example at the million dollars, and then we will begin to deal with the sat which will change as some currencies change as a result of inflation.
For example, a country like Turkey in which the currency has decreased by 30% and countries witnessing a change in the currency by 2%.

If the Bitcoin reaches enough of its market capacity, the satoshis will change by 10%.
Some will start laying the foundations for valuing bitcoins instead of relying on the dollar.

You are already wrong on this.  Some countries had already declared Bitcoin as legal tender even without accumulating a large quantity of it.  I think you are quite late on the news on this one.  Though I agree, with a high fees, it is currently not suited for the day-to-day transactions, only those who have no option but only BTC as a source of his fund can only do these things.  But to those who have fiat currency in hand, I am quite sure, they will hold BTC waiting for it to gain even more profit.

Hi
Actually I have been using something , considering the high fee ofc people won't use it like that. But I have seen people coupling their transactions together.
For example A and B have to send BTC to their account and then convert it into Local currency do what they do is they send in the same account together and the fee is 1/2. Now this works for any number of people that might be there. For me I have a small community , if my friends wish to send recieve we generally couple together. It really better and doesn't cause any problem but ofc depends on the situation and time.
But not always you have to do this you can just use segwit and put your fee to low or medium. It will take time for sure. But at the same time many sites are confirming the transactions after 1 confirmation. Which does help a lot and saves a lot of time and money.
I think we just need time to find something for LN , improve it and just modify it. It's good to go otherwise.
It actually depends on what you are paying for, sometimes the international transactions are way better when done in BTC.

That's why we cannot have the fully cashless society yet, we still need fiat for our payment option. Your point indeed was correct, that spending Bitcoin, even in a small way, for example buying a $2-$3 product while the transaction fee is $7-$10, then it is not financially wise to do. However, not spending your Bitcoin will not help, it needs to be circulated in the market to continue rising.

Spending it three times a week is not bad to make people or small businesses owners aware that there are people who have Bitcoin and is willing to pay in Bitcoin, otherwise, they'll start to remove that payment option.

I don't really think that Bitcoin would be something like that specially because of the transaction fee and the confirmation of transaction takes too much time.
I would just continue to use Fiat since it is more convenient for us we would just hand it over and the transaction is done and also if we would use crypto it would add up another fee along with the tax.

Bitcoin has got high Transaction fee. This is the reason why Bitcoin hasn't gained importance on daily transaction. Maybe this scenario will change when bitcoin becomes a supportive platform for micropayments. Right now the increased usage is on gambling, trading and large volume transactions to eliminate the usage of banking procedures.

Sorry but the majority of my transactions are for day-to-day transactions. Top of the list is food delivery (which is getting more frequent in these times), but I'm also now already able to get a lot of credit (paid for with Bitcoin) at almost all the stores I shop at. Cashback rocks.

That's not even counting the payments I make to people or to deposit for the things I do every day (sportsbetting for example). All in Bitcoin.

Sure, I still have to sell for the cash to pay most bills and other expenses. And granted, it'll continue to be the case for a while. But sorry, Bitcoin really is for my day-to-day.

Bitcoin is an asset and the transaction fee is high, the transaction fee will also be getting higher as the price will be increasing as people are adopting it more and more. The transaction fee can be a problem that will not make people to use bitcoin as a means of transaction, but onchain transactions. That is why lightning network has been developed, as the onchain transaction fee will be increasing, there will be increase in lightning network adoption. The purpose of lightning network is to provided bitcoin users the opportunity to be able to send bitcoin, even small amount of bitcoin with low transaction fee, and the added advantage is the increase in transaction time which means the transactions are even fast and completed within a second or less.

People will be able to still send bitcoin with low transaction fee as people are adopting lightning network, the increase in onchian transaction fee will let people to be moving to be using lightning network for bitcoin transactions. This will have a possitive effect that will make the onchain transaction not to be as high as it should be in the future but although still will be getting higher, more people will also later be depending on lightning network for bitcoin transactions.

If you are holding your bitcoins with the expectation of bitcoin will be hitting main stream adoption one day so that you will easily buy groceries for direct BTC payments and pay your gas bill with BTC, your dream will get fulfilled one day but after that you may regret for spending bitcoins for lesser value or for silly things.

I mean we are holding something technically advanced one but with old-fashioned expectations.

We will be able to buy our dream house for less than half of 1 bitcoin or we may able to acquire a profitably running business for one bitcoin but most of us are focusing on a day where we will be able to pay a cup of coffee with bitcoin.

I have 3 reasons why bitcoin is not for everyday spending but for our life changing transactions.

1. Countries may start having bitcoin as another reserve.

Many experts are speculating bitcoin will replace gold as a nation's central bank's reserve.
If that will not be happening, at least countries will prefer to have another form of reserve which is suitable for digital age along with all the properties of gold.

Here we should not assume like countries will first declare bitcoin as legal tender. They may collect as much as bitcoins first and then unveil their stand on bitcoins later.

So, we must save what our countries will start saving today or tomorrow. Else, regretting will be the final thing.

2. Governments will prefer bitcoin as a digital asset rather than a payment system.

An asset is something that we do not transact daily. When people are not spending bitcoins for their daily needs, it would be easier for governments to track BTC transactions for taxation.

When BTC value in multi-millions, people will not spend it for daily needs as they value it as an asset and may spend only for buying a Ferrari or for Apple 12 pro. (I mean I am sure no one will buy an Apple phone everyday).

3. Technically bitcoin is designed to be having huge value.

Limited supply and halving are explicit characteristics of bitcoins to assume it is designed to have huge value. When one satoshi is valuing 1 dollar or 10 dollar then you will not transact BTCs multiple time a day. Maybe you spend bitcoins monthly once or twice. Because you are going to use bitcoins only for your life's big things and you will have other income stream due to those big things which has happened with BTC payments.

This way I assume 1MB blocks are enough for bitcoins forever. Because people will save bitcoins and may spend it once in year or decade .

The current bull run is triggered by institutional fund mangers and this wave may get intensified by other corporate and by governments. So, save bitcoins as much as possible before governments start competing against us.