Spain : if Catalonia choose independance, what currency will they use ?

countryfree

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 27, 2015, 12:21:01 PM

Catalonia will be automatically granted the membership of the European Union, the Schengen Zone, and the Euro Zone.

No, sir! Big mistake. I'm surprised you're making it. To join the EU, all existing members must accept the new member. This is why Macedonia can't join, Greece is blocking it. Spain will block Catalonia from joining, France too because a little part of it, historically, was part of Catalonia, and Italy too, will probably puts it veto to prevent the Northern League from following the same path.

The € will remain the de facto currency, but it would be terribly dangerous for Catalonia because it will not have any say in European policies. In case of trouble, their fate would be worse than Greece as it would be illegal for the ECB to help them in any way.

I was in Barcelona on the 11th, there were huge crowds in the streets, most of them good looking people, but I'm not sure they fully understand what's at stake.

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If you followed the Scottish independence referendum however long ago it was, one of the astounding oversights of the yes campaign was a total lack of clarification about what they'd do about their currency.

They assumed they'd continue using the pound until London told them to fuck off. Then they assumed they'd waltz into the Euro until the EU told them it would be far from a done deal.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: qiwoman2 on September 28, 2015, 02:23:35 AM

Catalonians are the richer Spaniards at present so they would probably make their own currency. I don't know though what Spain will do if they unilaterally declare independence? Could we have another war on our hands now in Europe?

It is true that Catalonia is wealthy compared to the other regions of Spain, such as Andalusia and Extramadura. That said, it is not a solid reason for them to print their own separate currency. They have been a part of the Eurozone for so long, that any change will cause enormous difficulties for the local people and for the regional economy.

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Quote from: jbrnt on September 28, 2015, 12:43:56 PM

Quote from: pereira4 on September 27, 2015, 05:45:26 PM

I know a guy that lives in spain and he told me the elections was today and more than 52% of people voted for "no", yet the majority of seats is from pro-independent parties somehow.

The "Together for Yes" (separatists) alliance won 62 seats, combining with the far-left separatist CUP party, which won 10 seats, they have a parliamentary majority. This is a parliamentary election not a referendum, so Catalonia can't declare independence (yet).

Exactly. It would probably be years if they ever become independent if at all.

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Quote from: pereira4 on September 27, 2015, 05:45:26 PM

I know a guy that lives in spain and he told me the elections was today and more than 52% of people voted for "no", yet the majority of seats is from pro-independent parties somehow.

The "Together for Yes" (separatists) alliance won 62 seats, combining with the far-left separatist CUP party, which won 10 seats, they have a parliamentary majority. This is a parliamentary election not a referendum, so Catalonia can't declare independence (yet).

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Quote from: blxlihnk on September 26, 2015, 12:19:53 PM

If catalans vote the exit from Spain, will Catalonia be a future european state and use euro currency ?

No, they will use bitcoin.

qiwoman2

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Catalonians are the richer Spaniards at present so they would probably make their own currency. I don't know though what Spain will do if they unilaterally declare independence? Could we have another war on our hands now in Europe?

coinpr0n

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Quote from: pereira4 on September 27, 2015, 05:45:26 PM

I don't think so. I know a guy that lives in spain and he told me the elections was today and more than 52% of people voted for "no", yet the majority of seats is from pro-independent parties somehow. This makes no sense to me, I guess I don't understand the method they use over there for voting.

I think it might work be regional representation - or else a city like Barcelona could simply outvote the rest of the region and have all say.

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Quote from: blxlihnk on September 27, 2015, 05:06:22 PM

Quote from: ashour on September 27, 2015, 04:03:59 PM

Euro would make sense since people would still move from Spain to Catalonia, if Catalonia decided to use a different currency it might be a headache for the citizens and business who interact with the Spanish part of the country.

Switzerland, UK etc ... dont use euros for example

But must not to be forgotten that don't use neither bitcoin. And will never use it. If you prefer we can bet everything you want about this.

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Quote from: jbrnt on September 27, 2015, 01:06:49 PM

Quote from: cellard on September 27, 2015, 11:28:25 AM

Apparently in spain their constitution states that it's illegal that a territory claims independence by themselves, this means that the entire country (spain) has to to vote or something along the lines. Which means if the president of catalonia decides to claim independence by themselves even if they get a big majority, it's still illegal.

I think this is right. A state cannot break away from a country by a vote for independence. Usually this would result in a civil war.

If Catalonia breaks away from Spain, they are breaking away from Eurozone too. They cannot have it both ways. They can declare Euro as legal tender in Catalonia but they will need to have their own currency pegged to Euro.

Could Barcelona still be in the Spanish Primera Division? Cheesy

I don't think so. I know a guy that lives in spain and he told me the elections was today and more than 52% of people voted for "no", yet the majority of seats is from pro-independent parties somehow. This makes no sense to me, I guess I don't understand the method they use over there for voting.

blxlihnk

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Quote from: ashour on September 27, 2015, 04:03:59 PM

Euro would make sense since people would still move from Spain to Catalonia, if Catalonia decided to use a different currency it might be a headache for the citizens and business who interact with the Spanish part of the country.

Switzerland, UK etc ... dont use euros for example

ashour

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Euro would make sense since people would still move from Spain to Catalonia, if Catalonia decided to use a different currency it might be a headache for the citizens and business who interact with the Spanish part of the country.

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Quote from: Hazir on September 27, 2015, 03:39:59 PM

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on September 27, 2015, 03:58:53 AM

I think Euro is still the way to go for the time being, since most people there are using Euro. Bitcoin is not suitable for the newly formed state is my opinion.

This. Also I don't think bitcoin will be suitable as national currency of any nation anytime soon - if ever.
It is not the time fully digitalized money can be introduced at that scale. Catalonia will use Euro or issue their own paper money.

Yes, and I dont know how a country could afford to exchange their own currency for bitcoin
or they should create a brand new altcoin
and this country should be crazy to adopt bitcoin, how could they achieve to taxe transactions with bitcoin ?

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Quote from: 7788bitcoin on September 27, 2015, 03:58:53 AM

I think Euro is still the way to go for the time being, since most people there are using Euro. Bitcoin is not suitable for the newly formed state is my opinion.

This. Also I don't think bitcoin will be suitable as national currency of any nation anytime soon - if ever.
It is not the time fully digitalized money can be introduced at that scale. Catalonia will use Euro or issue their own paper money.

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Quote from: NorrisK on September 27, 2015, 11:58:43 AM

They will most likely use the euro as all infrastructure is there. They wouldn't even need to be in the eurozone (Istanbul for instance accepts euros as well).

Bitcoin won't be used, that's for sure Wink

I also think that the best would be to stay in Euro. The only thing I don't know is what are the mechanisms of the European Union if they were to separate from Spain? Would the EU let them stay and use the Euro is the question?

And yes, there is no way they would want use Bitcoin nor Bitcoin is yet ready for something like this.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: blxlihnk on September 27, 2015, 01:26:20 PM

I'm sure they will use low taxes to compete with spain

Actually this one of the reasons why they are trying to gain independence. A large percentage of the Spanish tax revenue comes from the businesses and industries in Catalonia, and this money is used to subsidize the Spanish agricultural sector (especially in the Southern regions of Spain) and the economically backward regions of central Spain.

blxlihnk

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I'm sure other countries will be happy to have partnership with them : france, italia..
and I'm sure they will use low taxes to compete with spain

jbrnt

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Quote from: cellard on September 27, 2015, 11:28:25 AM

Apparently in spain their constitution states that it's illegal that a territory claims independence by themselves, this means that the entire country (spain) has to to vote or something along the lines. Which means if the president of catalonia decides to claim independence by themselves even if they get a big majority, it's still illegal.

I think this is right. A state cannot break away from a country by a vote for independence. Usually this would result in a civil war.

If Catalonia breaks away from Spain, they are breaking away from Eurozone too. They cannot have it both ways. They can declare Euro as legal tender in Catalonia but they will need to have their own currency pegged to Euro.

Could Barcelona still be in the Spanish Primera Division? Cheesy

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Luis Maria Linde, head of the Bank of Spain, said the region would not be able keep the single currency and its position in the European Union as a whole would be under threat should it decide to break away from Spain.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11879620/Catalonia-will-be-kicked-out-of-the-eurozone-after-independence-vote-warns-central-bank-governor.html

It's possible if they will use Bitcoin.

bering

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Bitcoin? i guess not
Euro? yes and i'm pretty sure they will use it for the currency if Catalonia choose for independence

eternalgloom

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I would be surprised if they used any other currency than the Euro.

bryant.coleman

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Catalonia will be automatically granted the membership of the European Union, the Schengen Zone, and the Euro Zone. Therefore, Euro will be the national currency, just like it was before the independence. That said, in case Catalonia manages to gain independence peacefully (the chances are really low), Spain is likely to put obstacles on its European integration.

NorrisK

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They will most likely use the euro as all infrastructure is there. They wouldn't even need to be in the eurozone (Istanbul for instance accepts euros as well).

Bitcoin won't be used, that's for sure Wink

LMGTFY

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Quote from: cellard on September 27, 2015, 11:28:25 AM

Quote from: LMGTFY on September 27, 2015, 08:26:44 AM

At the risk of being pedantic... neither! This isn't an official referendum. If "Sí" wins, though, it'll be much harder to keep an official referendum off the table in future.

I think it'd be very hard to answer on EU membership and Euro use - during Scotland's referendum last year this area was surrounded by FUD, and I suspect until it happens for the first time we won't have a settled legal answer (Britain and Spain have both suggested that the answer to both might be "no". I believe Scotland's "Yes" camp and Catalonia's "Sí" camp feel rather differently. I wish I was a lawyer that could profit from this!)

I think its very different scenarios. Apparently in spain their constitution states that it's illegal that a territory claims independence by themselves, this means that the entire country (spain) has to to vote or something along the lines. Which means if the president of catalonia decides to claim independence by themselves even if they get a big majority, it's still illegal.

Agreed. It was an official referendum in Scotland, and - although the Catalan government wanted an official referendum - this one isn't official. With Scotland the UK government had participated in part of the process (determining how to do it all legally, agreeing the wording of the referendum question, etc). I think what this referendum mayachieve - assuming a Sí vote - for Catalonia is getting the Spanish government to the same place the UK government were a few years ago.

In both cases, though, EU membership and adopting/keeping the Euro were/are argued about by the opposing sides. This article is a fairly typical example from during the Scottish referendum campaign - the Yes and No camps are debating comments made by the EC President about Catalonia and EU membership, for example.

cellard

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Quote from: LMGTFY on September 27, 2015, 08:26:44 AM

Quote from: blxlihnk on September 26, 2015, 12:19:53 PM

If catalans vote the exit from Spain, will Catalonia be a future european state and use euro currency ?

At the risk of being pedantic... neither! This isn't an official referendum. If "Sí" wins, though, it'll be much harder to keep an official referendum off the table in future.

I think it'd be very hard to answer on EU membership and Euro use - during Scotland's referendum last year this area was surrounded by FUD, and I suspect until it happens for the first time we won't have a settled legal answer (Britain and Spain have both suggested that the answer to both might be "no". I believe Scotland's "Yes" camp and Catalonia's "Sí" camp feel rather differently. I wish I was a lawyer that could profit from this!)

I think its very different scenarios. Apparently in spain their constitution states that it's illegal that a territory claims independence by themselves, this means that the entire country (spain) has to to vote or something along the lines. Which means if the president of catalonia decides to claim independence by themselves even if they get a big majority, it's still illegal.

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Sorry, I've no idea Grin

LMGTFY

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Quote from: blxlihnk on September 26, 2015, 12:19:53 PM

If catalans vote the exit from Spain, will Catalonia be a future european state and use euro currency ?

At the risk of being pedantic... neither! This isn't an official referendum. If "Sí" wins, though, it'll be much harder to keep an official referendum off the table in future.

I think it'd be very hard to answer on EU membership and Euro use - during Scotland's referendum last year this area was surrounded by FUD, and I suspect until it happens for the first time we won't have a settled legal answer (Britain and Spain have both suggested that the answer to both might be "no". I believe Scotland's "Yes" camp and Catalonia's "Sí" camp feel rather differently. I wish I was a lawyer that could profit from this!)

neurotypical

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Not sure how this works but from what i've researched they will be out of the Euro, so expect very thought times if they leave. So they will be left with basically no currency for a while, no one knows how much time it will take to be re-accepted into the Euro. It's a really weird situation. As far as I know they haven't said anything about what currency they will use if they are out of the Euro. They are probably too ignorant to know what Bitcoin is and even if they weren't im not sure it would deal with all the transactions without blockstream/bigger block size.

n2004al

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Quote from: blxlihnk on September 26, 2015, 12:19:53 PM

If catalans vote the exit from Spain, will Catalonia be a future european state and use euro currency ?

I think will choose euro and be member of EU but who knows. Maybe they will create their own currency and will choose to be out of everything and on its own. But I can't stay without telling that it will be very few chances that Catalonia be independent. Sorry if you are an independents. Hope the best for them.

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Quote from: Butoeskor on September 27, 2015, 06:28:45 AM

The best option would be for all Catalans, the bitcoin, sure. They do not depend on the euro.

why would they adopt bitcoin as probably 90% of them don't know what bitcoin is or even haven't heard of it. beside that, governments and banks don't want to lose the control they have right now.

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Drachmas!

Q7

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The decision on whether after the breakup they will get accepted into EU and adoption of euro currency could be hampered and blocked on grounds related to political restrictions. They will most probably have their own currency but I don't think it will be bitcoin. Usually as a newly born independent state that at this point, they will seek help from other nation to support their growth during this critical period. Bitcoin will come later.

HeroCat

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Catalonia have many benefits from Spain, so they will not leave Wink

Catalonia by itself is small piece from Spain Grin

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The best option would be for all Catalans, the bitcoin, sure. They do not depend on the euro.

coinpr0n

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Quote from: Harry Hood on September 26, 2015, 01:14:39 PM

Bitcoin, of course!

Kidding, why wouldn't they use the Euro (or apply for inclusion)?

Spain especially (but probably some of other member states championing "unity" too) would veto them from inclusion. Or at least postpone their entrance for as long as possible.

7788bitcoin

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I think Euro is still the way to go for the time being, since most people there are using Euro. Bitcoin is not suitable for the newly formed state is my opinion.

Harry Hood

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Bitcoin, of course!

Kidding, why wouldn't they use the Euro (or apply for inclusion)?

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If catalans vote the exit from Spain, will Catalonia be a future european state and use euro currency ?

Topic: Spain : if Catalonia choose independance, what currency will they use ? (Read 2154 times)