Split: POLL - Since the low of $65 3 months back, overall did you buy or sell?

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: zeroday on October 20, 2013, 12:06:21 PM

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 20, 2013, 10:56:06 AM

Agreed that the banking system in general is not safe. Some banks however take on much more risk than others. If you had done your homework better you could have selected a bank with a much lower risk profile for your business account. And you could also have diversified between several banks on top. Sure more energy, more inconvenience, but lower risk was achievable for you too.

Eventhough I still think you are using the word robbery incorrectly, I understand your anger towards banks and politicians, and it's justified in my opinion. I think you also made a rational and wise decision to switch to bitcoin. You do inspire me.

You probably didn't read April news. This was exact robbery. My bank, which was the second largest bank in the country, was forced by European Commission to be sacrificed and many billions of customer's money were seized to repay country's debt. This was not regular bankruptcy process, but a perverted form of robbery. In case of normal bankruptcy I would get the most of my money back because current accounts are the first in the queue of getting money from liquidated bank, and only after that shareholders and bond holders receive the remaining. But in this perverted scenario regular current account holders lost everything above insured 100k.

If you look at "health report" of European banks, you will find that many of them are almost bankrupts. They keep functioning just because of government's support.
The same thing happened in the US when government decided to sacrifice Lehman Brothers but support the the rest of "too big to fail" banks.

You bank made unwise loans that went sour. Your government wanted a bailout from the European taxpayers to save the bank. Your government made the decision that all Cypriots should lose money as the government wants to keep Russian depositors happy. It got less of a bailout than it asked for. As a result, your bank's depositors lost money and that I assume includes you.

Not being bailed out is not the same as being robbed. Have I got the history wrong?

zeroday

donator

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 20, 2013, 10:56:06 AM

Agreed that the banking system in general is not safe. Some banks however take on much more risk than others. If you had done your homework better you could have selected a bank with a much lower risk profile for your business account. And you could also have diversified between several banks on top. Sure more energy, more inconvenience, but lower risk was achievable for you too.

Eventhough I still think you are using the word robbery incorrectly, I understand your anger towards banks and politicians, and it's justified in my opinion. I think you also made a rational and wise decision to switch to bitcoin. You do inspire me.

You probably didn't read April news. This was exact robbery. My bank, which was the second largest bank in the country, was forced by European Commission to be sacrificed and many billions of customer's money were seized to repay country's debt. This was not regular bankruptcy process, but a perverted form of robbery. In case of normal bankruptcy I would get the most of my money back because current accounts are the first in the queue of getting money from liquidated bank, and only after that shareholders and bond holders receive the remaining. But in this perverted scenario regular current account holders lost everything above insured 100k.

If you look at "health report" of European banks, you will find that many of them are almost bankrupts. They keep functioning just because of government's support.
The same thing happened in the US when government decided to sacrifice Lehman Brothers but support the the rest of "too big to fail" banks.

RationalSpeculator

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!

Quote from: zeroday on October 20, 2013, 09:59:48 AM

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 20, 2013, 09:27:19 AM

Operating money of almost 1 million euro? You needed all that in the account to make payments?

What operational amounts would you expect from business where usual project cost is 100-300K and average salary is 3-4K per worker ?

Ok, in that case you indeed had no other choice than to hold that amount in a bank.

Quote from: zeroday on October 20, 2013, 09:59:48 AM

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 20, 2013, 09:27:19 AM

Robbing is taking something under the threat of violence.

They will prevent me, under the threat of violence, from going to my bank and taking back my money. Isn't it obvious?

I don't think so. You cannot take your money back from the bank since it is lost. You going to your bank and taking the same amount of money that you put in, against their will, would be the initiation of violence by you. Them kicking you out with violence would be self defense.

Quote from: zeroday on October 20, 2013, 09:59:48 AM

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 20, 2013, 09:27:19 AM

A bank making poor investment decisions and losing the savers money is not a robbery. It's an investment gone soar, and you are responsible for having decided to put your money there.

This is not bank's fault, this is the whole banking system fault. Again, it was not investment account but current business account. I didn't have any interest, instead, I paid monthly account maintenance fee.

Agreed that the banking system in general is not safe. Some banks however take on much more risk than others. If you had done your homework better you could have selected a bank with a much lower risk profile for your business account. And you could also have diversified between several banks on top. Sure more energy, more inconvenience, but lower risk was achievable for you too.

Eventhough I still think you are using the word robbery incorrectly, I understand your anger towards banks and politicians, and it's justified in my opinion. I think you also made a rational and wise decision to switch to bitcoin. You do inspire me.

(I use this thread because I want more votes)

Salivan

full member

Activity: 195

Merit: 102

DiMS dev team

sold 15% of my stash
90$ per each coin
I almost totally run off fiat back than and it was main reason, but I must admit I felt very bearish as well

zeroday

donator

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 20, 2013, 09:27:19 AM

Operating money of almost 1 million euro? You needed all that in the account to make payments?

What operational amounts would you expect from business where usual project cost is 100-300K and average salary is 3-4K per worker ?

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 20, 2013, 09:27:19 AM

From where I sit the only one robbing was the government in order to give you a €100.000 bailout.

The key phrase is "From where I sit". Btw, you may discuss it in my thread.

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 20, 2013, 09:27:19 AM

Robbing is taking something under the threat of violence.

They will prevent me, under the threat of violence, from going to my bank and taking back my money. Isn't it obvious?

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 20, 2013, 09:27:19 AM

A bank making poor investment decisions and losing the savers money is not a robbery. It's an investment gone soar, and you are responsible for having decided to put your money there.

This is not bank's fault, this is the whole banking system fault. Again, it was not investment account but current business account. I didn't have any interest, instead, I paid monthly account maintenance fee.

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 20, 2013, 09:27:19 AM

I admire your switch to bitcoin, just wished you take more responsibility for your loss.

Yes I learned the lesson and now I clearly see that fiat money is just abstract thing which either exists or not depending on government's decision. This is because I'm stick to bitcoin and precious metals.

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 20, 2013, 09:27:19 AM

There was a pizza bought in 2010 or 2011 with btc, yet it will take likely a decade before you can buy pizza with btc near you, at best I think.

I can order pizza from amazon or go to Walmart or another mall and buy it with a gift card purchased onine with bitcoin at Gyft or eGifter (wihout any comission!).
Further, I can also buy delicious food at Tony Romas and many other restaurant networks around.

P.S. You wouldn't raise many of these questions if you read my thread.

RationalSpeculator

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!

Quote from: zeroday on October 20, 2013, 09:13:42 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: zeroday on October 20, 2013, 08:48:21 AM

I've been repeatedly spending part of my fiat profit to buy more and more btc.
I even don't have plans to sell at all. I believe soon there will have no need in exchanging btc to fiat as everybody will be able pay for anything with bitcoin.

The most of btc I spent this year were wage payments to some of my contractors abroad.

I think your 'soon' is incorrect. Unless you mean decades with soon?

Also, if I remember correctly, you had almost all your capital on a saving account while banks collapsing had been news for years.

And then you blame your loss on others.

What makes you so confident that your investment skills have dramatically improved?

Now you already can pay in btc (indirectly) for goods on amazon and many retail stores in the US. You also can buy air tickets and book hotels and cruises with btc. Soon you will be able to buy cars and homes directly from dealers. What's more?

About my lost capital. It was not investment, but operating money of my business and it's not my fault that EU decided to rob my bank.
In contrary, the most of my investments are now safe and gained in price (except gold). The most gains I got in 2012-2013 were from bitcoin and it really saved my business from collapse.

Operating money of almost 1 million euro? You needed all that in the account to make payments?

From where I sit the only one robbing was the government in order to give you a €100.000 bailout.

Robbing is taking something from someone else without his consent.

A bank making poor investment decisions and losing the savers money is not a robbery. It's an investment gone soar and you gave your consent for them to invest your money in return for an interest, with the risk of losing that money.

However, the european citizens did not give their consent for the european commission to print money and levy taxes, so they are stealing, not from your bank account, but from all citizens, you actually got part of their loot.

Or do I miss something crucial here?

There was a pizza bought in 2010 or 2011 with btc, yet it will take likely a decade before you can buy pizza with btc near you, at best I think.

I base this on the growth rate of the amount of transactions.

Topic: Split: POLL - Since the low of $65 3 months back, overall did you buy or sell? (Read 613 times)