Topic: Stacks Bowers Again - Summer auction (Read 877 times)
Stacks Bowers did the right thing here, top job!
Seems like the best move to me. Better safe then sorry especially during this stage of BTC collectibles becoming more mainstream.
Greets Hank
Greets Hank
Thoughtfan,
Very wise move. I think in the future, with a sophisticated collecting base outside of the forum, there will be an understanding of the history for these coins. In that context they are coins well worth selling and collecting. However, the potential damage to the hobby from newbies buying a compromised collectible is risky now, especially as Stacks Bowers establishes their offerings of physical bitcoins. I applaud your decision and am a little sad these great Microsoul coins have this stink on them, they are all great collectibles.
Very wise move. I think in the future, with a sophisticated collecting base outside of the forum, there will be an understanding of the history for these coins. In that context they are coins well worth selling and collecting. However, the potential damage to the hobby from newbies buying a compromised collectible is risky now, especially as Stacks Bowers establishes their offerings of physical bitcoins. I applaud your decision and am a little sad these great Microsoul coins have this stink on them, they are all great collectibles.
Hi Steely, Satslife and those who gave me merit.
Just to be clear, whilst I appreciate your expressions of thanks, I am am not, neither do I represent Stacks Bowers. I was the messenger and don't deserve the praise as I wouldn't deserve to be shot if it were bad news I were delivering! Not that I'm throwing it back into your face - I'll take it anyway with thanks
Thoughtfan,
Very wise move. I think in the future, with a sophisticated collecting base outside of the forum, there will be an understanding of the history for these coins. In that context they are coins well worth selling and collecting. However, the potential damage to the hobby from newbies buying a compromised collectible is risky now, especially as Stacks Bowers establishes their offerings of physical bitcoins. I applaud your decision and am a little sad these great Microsoul coins have this stink on them, they are all great collectibles.
Very wise move. I think in the future, with a sophisticated collecting base outside of the forum, there will be an understanding of the history for these coins. In that context they are coins well worth selling and collecting. However, the potential damage to the hobby from newbies buying a compromised collectible is risky now, especially as Stacks Bowers establishes their offerings of physical bitcoins. I applaud your decision and am a little sad these great Microsoul coins have this stink on them, they are all great collectibles.
Stacks Bowers Microsoul coins listings update
I am pleased to report Stacks withdrew the three Microsoul coins from the November auction. They are no longer on the website auction listing
I do acknowledge and understand that there are some who were pleased to see them included. However, as I will explain in a thread of its own, the matter of the mixed response to these coins within the community is of concern to me and I think it is in everyone's interest that the market for compromised-brand coins be as limited and minimal as possible. Personally, I am in no doubt that their exclusion is good for physical crypto in the longer term.
I am pleased to report Stacks withdrew the three Microsoul coins from the November auction. They are no longer on the website auction listing
I do acknowledge and understand that there are some who were pleased to see them included. However, as I will explain in a thread of its own, the matter of the mixed response to these coins within the community is of concern to me and I think it is in everyone's interest that the market for compromised-brand coins be as limited and minimal as possible. Personally, I am in no doubt that their exclusion is good for physical crypto in the longer term.
This is great news! Thanks for the update
Stacks Bowers Microsoul coins listings update
I am pleased to report Stacks withdrew the three Microsoul coins from the November auction. They are no longer on the website auction listing
I do acknowledge and understand that there are some who were pleased to see them included. However, as I will explain in a thread of its own, the matter of the mixed response to these coins within the community is of concern to me and I think it is in everyone's interest that the market for compromised-brand coins be as limited and minimal as possible. Personally, I am in no doubt that their exclusion is good for physical crypto in the longer term.
I am pleased to report Stacks withdrew the three Microsoul coins from the November auction. They are no longer on the website auction listing
I do acknowledge and understand that there are some who were pleased to see them included. However, as I will explain in a thread of its own, the matter of the mixed response to these coins within the community is of concern to me and I think it is in everyone's interest that the market for compromised-brand coins be as limited and minimal as possible. Personally, I am in no doubt that their exclusion is good for physical crypto in the longer term.
This sets off alarm bells for me if Microsoul was sending out sticker replacements. Is there a link to that please? I'd like to know if those labels were clearly marked as 'DIY' and that it is not possible to confuse them with the stickers concealing Gravitate-generated private keys.
I think it kind of started here - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gravitate-selling-funded-coins-that-are-not-funded-part-two-2055992
& here's where Matthew went bonkers and off the deep end before disappearing.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.21360387
It's worth noting - I actually met Matthew/Gravitate at Coinfest UK 2018 - Once introduced to him as being "owlcatz", He then asked me if I was going to bash him in the head with my pint of beer LOL... (Half-seriously even)!
He was also sort of "in disguise", meaning he was using a walker and pretending to be ill, he also looked quite different than the pics floating around of him on the internet - Anyways, He was there promoting some other scam coin I forgot the name of, presenting it under the just the billed name "Matthew", (most others there were using full names ofc)
and we happened to figure it out it was him once we got there... I was with Lesbian Cow, Zepher and I Think BG4 at the time, so they can also attest to this funny interaction... I wish I had recorded it now it was fuckin hilarious... The histories of some of these coin makers is quite surprising once you dig deeper... Even CI had scam accusations against him after being caught using an alt to bid/win his own auctions...
Edit - I do trust CI's coins for the most part, I don't think Pedro is a scammer, people know his full name etc etc.. And also no issues with his coins whatsoever, so I think he just learned a tough lesson in the long run... IDK...
Thanks owlcatz, the context helps a lot. So the guy declares a 'legal contract' that recommends everyone redeem their coins immediately and claims that this 'contract' absolves him of any responsibility as to whether or not his coins are funded! In that mindset, I can't see it would have been a high priority for him consider the security implications of ensuring the stickers he was offering to give away would be clearly distinguishable from the stickers he himself used to protect the private keys on the coins he issued. So unless anyone can confirm otherwise, I guess the safest assumption to make is that some Microsoul coins out there may have been funded by any randomers with coins and stickers and who may have retained the private keys?
This sets off alarm bells for me if Microsoul was sending out sticker replacements. Is there a link to that please? I'd like to know if those labels were clearly marked as 'DIY' and that it is not possible to confuse them with the stickers concealing Gravitate-generated private keys.
I think it kind of started here - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gravitate-selling-funded-coins-that-are-not-funded-part-two-2055992
& here's where Matthew went bonkers and off the deep end before disappearing.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.21360387
It's worth noting - I actually met Matthew/Gravitate at Coinfest UK 2018 - Once introduced to him as being "owlcatz", He then asked me if I was going to bash him in the head with my pint of beer LOL... (Half-seriously even)!
He was also sort of "in disguise", meaning he was using a walker and pretending to be ill, he also looked quite different than the pics floating around of him on the internet - Anyways, He was there promoting some other scam coin I forgot the name of, presenting it under the just the billed name "Matthew", (most others there were using full names ofc)
and we happened to figure it out it was him once we got there... I was with Lesbian Cow, Zepher and I Think BG4 at the time, so they can also attest to this funny interaction... I wish I had recorded it now it was fuckin hilarious... The histories of some of these coin makers is quite surprising once you dig deeper... Even CI had scam accusations against him after being caught using an alt to bid/win his own auctions...
Edit - I do trust CI's coins for the most part, I don't think Pedro is a scammer, people know his full name etc etc.. And also no issues with his coins whatsoever, so I think he just learned a tough lesson in the long run... IDK...
Edit 2 - I had completely forgot about this scam rating I left Gravitate ... Jesus... What a nut-job... https://archive.ph/LUz5E
...Microsoul effectively "recalled" coins in late 2017, asking people to peel the coins and offering DIY sticker replacements...
This sets off alarm bells for me if Microsoul was sending out sticker replacements. Is there a link to that please? I'd like to know if those labels were clearly marked as 'DIY' and that it is not possible to confuse them with the stickers concealing Gravitate-generated private keys.
I agree with Chi. I'd even go as far to say that no coin makers that ever had issues redeeming their coins should be offered. Is Stacks and Bowers aware of the potential issues?
Not making people aware of the potential issues does a huge disservice to the likes of casascius premiums and other high quality coins and makers, not to mention the winning bidders of these microsoul coins.
Not making people aware of the potential issues does a huge disservice to the likes of casascius premiums and other high quality coins and makers, not to mention the winning bidders of these microsoul coins.
This is a great discussion. Microsoul coins are important to the hobby and should be traded freely, but the issues exist and the hobby is still in early adoption with many unaware would be buyers.
Seeing Alpen Coin and Microsoul there is pretty cool
This may not be so good... It states the Microsouls are "loaded". But no one knows this for sure, right. Can anyone chime in who knows if it was just a certain year(s) of Microsouls that may or may not be funded (with that whole issue he had), or is it all of them that we just don't know for sure if funds will be there or not?
The last thing we need at an auction house is a coin that says it's funded but isn't, a fake, or some coin's keys can't be seen since they wore down or whatever..
As far as I understand, there were 2 issues with Microsoul coins:
1. Some coins were apparently not funded by accident, which can happen.
2. Some coins were funded, but the private key was printed in such a way that it was incomplemete/unreadable/incorrect
Recognizing these issues, Microsoul effectively "recalled" coins in late 2017, asking people to peel the coins and offering DIY sticker replacements, and promising refunds for any "missing" BTC within a certain time window.
My understanding is that these issues were mainly present with the later Microsoul coins, and with some 0.05 BTC's - though the risk remains for 2013 0.01's.
That said, the Microsoul coins o S&B are confirmed loaded as per the public key, which means that 0.01 BTC was placed into the corresponding address and remains there. Whether or not the private key is readable cannot be confirmed without peeling, but the balance of probabilities suggests that they are redeemable. That said, if we had a way of knowing which coins were un-redeemable "errors", I suspect that their collector value would be much higher. In practice it is unlikely we will ever know, as there is almost no reason to peel a Microsoul anymore as the Numismatic value is many times more than the funded value, and the "errors" are likely a very small percentage of what's out there.
Not peeling because of its numismatic value should have nothing to do with it. In my opinion by not letting people know the issue, or potential issues that lies within Microsoul coins is wrong. You’re leaving out material information that’s important to know when purchasing these coins. Maybe bitcoin shoots to a million bucks one day, the peel value of the coins will be pretty high. You never know. Plus maybe the person who buys it will simply need the money at some point regardless of how little the redeemable value is. Regardless, this should not be considered in to the equation.
So selling coins while omitting these material facts I believe to be wrong and somewhat fraudulent. The last thing we need is someone buying one, a coin not being redeemable even though it says it was in the listing, then they complain to Stacks about it. I could easily see them then say that they don’t want to have to deal with this situation ever again and no longer will offer them. This link with the information about the potential issues with the coin should be included in the sale ( https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/info-breached-or-scam-coin-makers-list-3315347 ). Something like this is all it could take to ruin things for everyone going forward.
IMO MinerJones should be doing the authentication for Stacks. A true expert.
Seeing Alpen Coin and Microsoul there is pretty cool
This may not be so good... It states the Microsouls are "loaded". But no one knows this for sure, right. Can anyone chime in who knows if it was just a certain year(s) of Microsouls that may or may not be funded (with that whole issue he had), or is it all of them that we just don't know for sure if funds will be there or not?
The last thing we need at an auction house is a coin that says it's funded but isn't, a fake, or some coin's keys can't be seen since they wore down or whatever..
As far as I understand, there were 2 issues with Microsoul coins:
1. Some coins were apparently not funded by accident, which can happen.
2. Some coins were funded, but the private key was printed in such a way that it was incomplemete/unreadable/incorrect
Recognizing these issues, Microsoul effectively "recalled" coins in late 2017, asking people to peel the coins and offering DIY sticker replacements, and promising refunds for any "missing" BTC within a certain time window.
My understanding is that these issues were mainly present with the later Microsoul coins, and with some 0.05 BTC's - though the risk remains for 2013 0.01's.
That said, the Microsoul coins o S&B are confirmed loaded as per the public key, which means that 0.01 BTC was placed into the corresponding address and remains there. Whether or not the private key is readable cannot be confirmed without peeling, but the balance of probabilities suggests that they are redeemable. That said, if we had a way of knowing which coins were un-redeemable "errors", I suspect that their collector value would be much higher. In practice it is unlikely we will ever know, as there is almost no reason to peel a Microsoul anymore as the Numismatic value is many times more than the funded value, and the "errors" are likely a very small percentage of what's out there.
This is the first Stacks Bowers to present a Crypto Imperator. I am looking forward to see the action on this one.
Steeley
Steeley
This may not be so good... It states the Microsouls are "loaded". But no one knows this for sure, right. Can anyone chime in who knows if it was just a certain year(s) of Microsouls that may or may not be funded (with that whole issue he had), or is it all of them that we just don't know for sure if fund will be there or not?
The last thing we need at an auction house is a coin that says it's funded but isn't, a fake, or some coin's keys can't be seen since they wore down or whatever..
The last thing we need at an auction house is a coin that says it's funded but isn't, a fake, or some coin's keys can't be seen since they wore down or whatever..
Well they look like his first series, and I'm pretty sure those were ok, but not 100%.
Also,... I don't think @Elianite would put his rep on the line and let them auction them if he wasn't sure as I'm positive he's seen the threads where Matthew went nutso and lost his shit, then vanished....
Maybe ping him , I know he's active here... ? 🤷♂️
Seeing Alpen Coin and Microsoul there is pretty cool
This may not be so good... It states the Microsouls are "loaded". But no one knows this for sure, right. Can anyone chime in who knows if it was just a certain year(s) of Microsouls that may or may not be funded (with that whole issue he had), or is it all of them that we just don't know for sure if funds will be there or not?
The last thing we need at an auction house is a coin that says it's funded but isn't, a fake, or some coin's keys can't be seen since they wore down or whatever..
Seeing Alpen Coin and Microsoul there is pretty cool
Very cool. Lots of other makers on pages 2 and 3.
Gotta say my fav on the list is the killyou silver star 1/10th!
Geo
Seeing Alpen Coin and Microsoul there is pretty cool
I think it's so awesome that they are using Bitpay to facilitate the transactions!
Bitpay does a great job of introducing bitcoin payments to businesses, and has been for years.
Pretty cool stuff. This is the first time they’ve auctioned so many and with these lower denominated coins.
I wonder how much armored shipping costs for a non registered business sale, or if it’s even available to just anyone. $500 doesn’t seem too bad. Though I’m curious how much sales and international shipping fees are.
“*Loaded cryptocurrency coins will be reserved at their intrinsic cryptocurrency value on the day of the sale. Lots realizing $25,000 or more will be delivered via armored carrier ONLY. An additional shipping charge of five hundred dollars [$500] will be applied to domestic armored carrier deliveries, with additional fees for remote and international deliveries. Winning bidders may also pay their invoice via BitPay for a 1% fee after authorization by Stack’s Bowers Galleries prior to the sale. Additional terms and conditions apply.”
Good pub. for the forum
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-XS9QM/2020-fresh-ltc-05-litecoin-ltc-loaded-firstbits-lt3tivev-serial-no-282-base-metal-alloy-38-mm-ms-69-icg
I wonder who got the guy to write a discriptction that good.
Sounds like someone familiar with the forum, maybe even a member of Bitcointalk, wrote this.
I’m confident it was written by someone from the forum. At least that’s what makes the most sense.
This is such a big deal for the forum and bitcoin/physical cryptocurrency collectibles. Hopefully other auction houses start to see these items and will start allowing them to be posted for sale on their outlets.
Wow, I agree that is great for forum awareness and great for crypto collectibles as a whole. Very cool they are acknowledging cool collabs of OG members in the community, recognizing the culture and amazing art that is created as a product.
Glad to hear you are involved Elias. Very encouraging.
Steeley
Steeley
Hey guys, just letting you know that I've been collaborating closely with Stacks since their 1st physical crypto auction and am most happy to answer any direct questions via PM, including helping get coins in for upcoming sales.
What's really exciting is that they have the "Double Error" Casascius ending later this month, which will mark the first time one of those has openly been sold. its only the 2nd of 5 to surface so far, and statistically 2/5 have been peeled without the peeler knowing about the super-rarity. This is straight-up the rarest Casascius coin out there that isn't loaded with 1,000 BTC.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-XS9GA
What's really exciting is that they have the "Double Error" Casascius ending later this month, which will mark the first time one of those has openly been sold. its only the 2nd of 5 to surface so far, and statistically 2/5 have been peeled without the peeler knowing about the super-rarity. This is straight-up the rarest Casascius coin out there that isn't loaded with 1,000 BTC.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-XS9GA
I’m eager to see what the PCGS-graded, redeemed 25 goes for. I’ve got two of them 
The one up for auction is AU 58, not too great too. Will be very interesting to watch that one.
I think it's so awesome that they are using Bitpay to facilitate the transactions!
Bitpay does a great job of introducing bitcoin payments to businesses, and has been for years.
Pretty cool stuff. This is the first time they’ve auctioned so many and with these lower denominated coins.
I wonder how much armored shipping costs for a non registered business sale, or if it’s even available to just anyone. $500 doesn’t seem too bad. Though I’m curious how much sales and international shipping fees are.
“*Loaded cryptocurrency coins will be reserved at their intrinsic cryptocurrency value on the day of the sale. Lots realizing $25,000 or more will be delivered via armored carrier ONLY. An additional shipping charge of five hundred dollars [$500] will be applied to domestic armored carrier deliveries, with additional fees for remote and international deliveries. Winning bidders may also pay their invoice via BitPay for a 1% fee after authorization by Stack’s Bowers Galleries prior to the sale. Additional terms and conditions apply.”
Good pub. for the forum
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-XS9QM/2020-fresh-ltc-05-litecoin-ltc-loaded-firstbits-lt3tivev-serial-no-282-base-metal-alloy-38-mm-ms-69-icg
I wonder who got the guy to write a discriptction that good.
Sounds like someone familiar with the forum, maybe even a member of Bitcointalk, wrote this.
I’m confident it was written by someone from the forum. At least that’s what makes the most sense.
This is such a big deal for the forum and bitcoin/physical cryptocurrency collectibles. Hopefully other auction houses start to see these items and will start allowing them to be posted for sale on their outlets.
I’m eager to see what the PCGS-graded, redeemed 25 goes for. I’ve got two of them
I think it's so awesome that they are using Bitpay to facilitate the transactions!
Bitpay does a great job of introducing bitcoin payments to businesses, and has been for years.
Pretty cool stuff. This is the first time they’ve auctioned so many and with these lower denominated coins.
I wonder how much armored shipping costs for a non registered business sale, or if it’s even available to just anyone. $500 doesn’t seem too bad. Though I’m curious how much sales and international shipping fees are.
“*Loaded cryptocurrency coins will be reserved at their intrinsic cryptocurrency value on the day of the sale. Lots realizing $25,000 or more will be delivered via armored carrier ONLY. An additional shipping charge of five hundred dollars [$500] will be applied to domestic armored carrier deliveries, with additional fees for remote and international deliveries. Winning bidders may also pay their invoice via BitPay for a 1% fee after authorization by Stack’s Bowers Galleries prior to the sale. Additional terms and conditions apply.”
Good pub. for the forum
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-XS9QM/2020-fresh-ltc-05-litecoin-ltc-loaded-firstbits-lt3tivev-serial-no-282-base-metal-alloy-38-mm-ms-69-icg
I wonder who got the guy to write a discriptction that good.
Sounds like someone familiar with the forum, maybe even a member of Bitcointalk, wrote this.
I think it's so awesome that they are using Bitpay to facilitate the transactions!
Bitpay does a great job of introducing bitcoin payments to businesses, and has been for years.
Pretty cool stuff. This is the first time they’ve auctioned so many and with these lower denominated coins.
I wonder how much armored shipping costs for a non registered business sale, or if it’s even available to just anyone. $500 doesn’t seem too bad. Though I’m curious how much sales and international shipping fees are.
“*Loaded cryptocurrency coins will be reserved at their intrinsic cryptocurrency value on the day of the sale. Lots realizing $25,000 or more will be delivered via armored carrier ONLY. An additional shipping charge of five hundred dollars [$500] will be applied to domestic armored carrier deliveries, with additional fees for remote and international deliveries. Winning bidders may also pay their invoice via BitPay for a 1% fee after authorization by Stack’s Bowers Galleries prior to the sale. Additional terms and conditions apply.”
Good pub. for the forum
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-XS9QM/2020-fresh-ltc-05-litecoin-ltc-loaded-firstbits-lt3tivev-serial-no-282-base-metal-alloy-38-mm-ms-69-icg
I wonder who got the guy to write a discriptction that good.
I think it's so awesome that they are using Bitpay to facilitate the transactions!
Bitpay does a great job of introducing bitcoin payments to businesses, and has been for years.
Pretty cool stuff. This is the first time they’ve auctioned so many and with these lower denominated coins.
I wonder how much armored shipping costs for a non registered business sale, or if it’s even available to just anyone. $500 doesn’t seem too bad. Though I’m curious how much sales and international shipping fees are.
“*Loaded cryptocurrency coins will be reserved at their intrinsic cryptocurrency value on the day of the sale. Lots realizing $25,000 or more will be delivered via armored carrier ONLY. An additional shipping charge of five hundred dollars [$500] will be applied to domestic armored carrier deliveries, with additional fees for remote and international deliveries. Winning bidders may also pay their invoice via BitPay for a 1% fee after authorization by Stack’s Bowers Galleries prior to the sale. Additional terms and conditions apply.”
Good pub. for the forum
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-XS9QM/2020-fresh-ltc-05-litecoin-ltc-loaded-firstbits-lt3tivev-serial-no-282-base-metal-alloy-38-mm-ms-69-icg
I think it's so awesome that they are using Bitpay to facilitate the transactions!
That's awesome thanks for sharing
I think this is the fourth auction by Stacks Bowers featuring physical bitcoins
https://www.greysheet.com/news/story/bitcoins-and-physical-cryptocurrency-featured-in-the-stack-s-bowers-galleries-summer-2022-auction
https://www.greysheet.com/news/story/bitcoins-and-physical-cryptocurrency-featured-in-the-stack-s-bowers-galleries-summer-2022-auction
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