Topic: Stainless steel or Titanium (Read 502 times)

Titanium is not just a metal with a higher melting point - it is also way stronger and lighter than stainless steel.  With half the density, a titanium plate weighs half as much as a stainless steel one the same size and  so titanium gives you the strength of stainless steel without all the extra weight.  I guess that is why some folks go for titanium instead - it has that perfect combo of strong and light, better resistance to corrosion and can handle various chemicals that might react with steel. And, yeah, it also looks pretty darn cool too!  Not that you are going to brag about your backup seed or show it off to anyone, but still...

o_e_l_e_o gave the same answer. I researched about it and I found it to be true. It can shatter upon impact and not recommended despite the high melting point.

My problem is that I want to know more about it as only stainless steel has been what people are saying on this forum but I noticed recently that titanium has a higher melting point than stainless steel and can be better, but according to what I have seen from what people are posting, stainless steel is still highly recommended, while titanium is also good.

Tungsten is extremely brittle substance  when it is stressed  and this physical property would prevent  it from usage in seed phrase backup even if the cost were 1 cent for gram.

What is your problem, let's say,  with stainless steel washers? They are relatively cheep and easy to work with.

When trying to give reasons or factors that affect anything for it's relevance you always have to check it's affordability, stainless steel can be considered an averagely good option but in terms of it's price it has become the majority favorite.

Titanium has better quality than that of stainless steel but it's not easy to get one of the reasons why the new iphone is spectacular and it's price is up is because it's made of titanium a very light metal that is super durable.

Haha, I do not have a stainless steel backup solution and it is raising questions about my holdings  , seniors don't you think you've said much on that, What my point of view is even if it costs a few bucks, there's no need of it, I can do something better with just paper & lamination.

I'm sure this is just a random idea, but I'm sure there will be many fans who would love to secure their seed on the gold sheet, some may prefer Platinum as well but I'm a person who used to keep it simple like really. For the Questionnaire on something valuable I own or not as I'm a junior I can't compete with you still I'm happy with my holdings and even with my backup solution  .

Nice, but termites are actually one of the least things that crossed my mind, though this could be a problem if you live in an insect infested area. Among the shortcomings of paper storage, I could only think of children, water and fire.

Because of the cost acquiring a titanium or tungsten metal and paying someone to crest the letters on it, I would stick with writing my seed phrase on a piece of paper. Also, I have multiple backups stored in different locations incase one gets destroyed.

Printing over Titanium and Tungsten metal is highly challenging and requires special tools compared to Stainless steel but in terms of cost, both stainless steel and titanium can be in the same range while Tungsten will at least double the amount over the two.

The availability of the metal is the actual reason why many people recommend it but in my opinion, I will never prefer all of the above to print my seeds unless for experimental purposes.

Then you need to buy 2 sheets of titanium metal to check the quality on the first sheet. Then you need to buy a metal stamp tool, then also buy a cover for this sheet. If you try to calculate the time spent on checking and additional purchases, then I would purchase a tested product from a good manufacturer.

To write wallet phrase codes, I personally do not use steel or titanium. But I just use plain paper. Because if you use paper it will be easier to hide or tuck anywhere. Unlike steel or titanium, it is certain that hiding it also requires a slightly larger space. Because steel or titanium is definitely very hard.
Therefore, I personally prefer paper to write down the wallet phrase code that I have. Because basically if it is stored in a dry and safe place, the paper containing the wallet phrase code will definitely be safe.

But writing wallet code phrases on paper also has a bit of risk too, if kept for a very long time. Like the paper could be eaten by termites, or the writing could become blurry because it's been around for too long. Therefore I have a way to overcome it. Namely, when writing wallet phrase codes, I use a pen that contains very good quality ink so that the writing lasts longer. I learned this method from my teacher who showed me his writing which was more than 40 years old, but the writing was still very clear and not blurry in the slightest. Then he told me that when he made the writing, he used a pen that had very good ink content.

And to deal with termites that often eat paper, this method is certainly known by many people. That is only need to buy anti-termite medicine. So even though I use paper to write the wallet phrase code that I have. But I am very confident that it will be very safe and will last a very long time. Apart from that, I personally have made a plan, that every five years I will rewrite the wallet phrase code that I have just in case and minimize the slightest risk.

Anything can be used as long as it can be written on and the writing is durable. Choosing a place to store seed phrases depends on each individual. Steel, Titanium, Tungsten or paper both have the same function in maintaining writing that lasts a long time. Everyone certainly wants their seed phrase written down and stored in a safe place, writing the seed phrase on a metal plate is also not a bad choice, you can store it in a safe that can withstand high temperatures.

Also completely unnecessary. You can buy a sheet of titanium metal around 10cm x 10cm x 0.5cm for less than $30 online or at a hardware store, which is easily large and thick enough to securely store a seed phrase.

That's to do with its thermal conductivity being much lower than that of aluminum, which is not really relevant to our purposes here.

Anything that would destroy a paper back up will probably destroy an aluminum back up. It melts at temperatures well below an average house fire, is highly reactive and susceptible to corrosion, and is very weak and easily deformed. It is a very poor choice, not to mention not really any cheaper than stainless steel.

Reason why many people prefer the use aluminium or different kinds of metal is because it's price to acquire the metal. Well, it's a different story if you are rich orhave decent amount of money where you can spare some money to buy titanium since it's much better than other metal. Buying titanium will cost you much more money compared to buying aluminium. I would also prefer using aluminium myself since I can't afford to buy titanium to use it for writing your seed phrase.

Is this a good store?
https://cryptotag.io/shop/
They have a lot of titanium products, and I'm sure there are no problems with deliveries to Europe and the USA. Even in Russia, I checked trusted stores where I could buy these titanium plates. and prices are affordable even for novice users.

This. Good luck finding your metal plate in case something serious happens to your house/building like fire, earthquake or any other natural disaster.

Instead of that I opted for exactly what you mentioned, paper back ups in two separate locations that are very far away from each other.

Apples or orange.
We talked about titanium used instead of stainless steel, but you just didn't saw that.
Onekey is one brand that is making backup plates made only from titanoum metal, but I think I saw few others doing it also.
It is true that titanium have a higher melting point, but it is more expensive, and it is not so easy to find it in local shops like stainless steel.
I heard there are some temperature overheating issues with new iPhone because they used new titanium material for the first time.

If I have $2000 worth of coins in my wallet then I would use paper or encryption.
But if there are 100 times more coins, then it is better to buy the most reliable plate for storing the phrase.
The most expensive Cryptotag Odin 7 titanium plates I've seen are priced at $250, but that's not expensive for $200,000 worth of storage.

I have spent some time researching this and technically Titanium is better if you are worried about a house fire but the reality is that will never be a real threat to most people.

Stainless steel is a great option at a reasonable price point and much easier to find online because that's what most companies sell.

I personally like the Codl Co PunchPlate because they have a bunch of 304 stainless steel options and at a price point of around $30 (often less during a sale). Codl Co PunchPlates are made in the USA so it might cost a bit more to ship to where you live but imho, they provide the highest level of security/durability at one of the lowest prices.

Some seed phrase storage plates from other companies are thinner and cost like $50 - $70 + shipping. Imho, that's kind of absurd for a piece of steel with some laser etching on it.

For most people, paper stored somewhere safe is just fine. For added security, steel is the most accessible option. For the absolute highest level of durability, titanium is the best but you will pay for it.   

I also wrote a detailed article on how to securely write your seed phrase that you might find helpful. I hope you find the right balance of security for your own particular circumstances.   

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with using paper instead of metal. The majority of my back ups are on paper.

Indeed, I think using metal can sometimes lead users astray. They create a single metal back up and assume that they are completely safe, even though they are still at risk of losing it, theft, natural disasters, and so on. I would much rather have two paper back ups in separate locations than one metal back up, especially if that one metal back up is stored in the same place as my wallets themselves (i.e. at home). As the old saying goes "Two is one, one is none".

I can’t even imagine where you will find a tungsten plate and whether you can put seed phrases on it. How much effort and money will it cost.

Stainless steel is ideal in terms of price and quality ratio, it is widely distributed and can be found in any shape, including even various alloys. But with titanium, some problems already arise with availability and price, although, in principle, this is also feasible, if desired. Yes, at least make seed phrase backup from kryptonite, if you find it or buy it and can engrave the necessary words on it..

The best metal or alloy for applying the seed phrase is not determined by the melting point alone. There are also other parameters, for example, how easy the material is to process. The stronger the metal, the more difficult it will be to do this.

I have securely stored my seed phrase in two separate places. The first copy is on a piece of strong paper, and the second backup is on my old laptop, which has been formatted and is not connected to the internet.

I have written down the seed phrase as a single .txt file with one text on each file for 12 times, with each of the words numbered sequentially from 1 to 12, following the order of the seed words.
like this [1.txt], [2.txt], [3,txt] [....].

I have used cheap pen for backup and I the ones I used more than 25 years ago are still clearly seen on a paper. The only paper that I know that is not good has been the thermal paper.

If you get a pen that students are using with the blue ink or black ink, you can use it to backup your seed phrase on a student book paper and it will not fade. If you do not want to use a pen, you can use a pencil. Both backup can last for many decades.

You can do another backup every year.

Sorry to tell you but this attitude will get you into trouble.

Trying to cut corners on securing basically the wealth you are trying so hard to increase is just, well, a stupid choice, no offense! Using the cheapest paper, probably writing it down with the cheapest pen and you might end up in two years with something unreadable. I have a contract from 2018 that because was printed on some really bad paper is now just one gray paper, nothing readable, and lamitating that paper won't do much good either.

You're being heap for what, $5-10 in order to secure evything? How much would those let's say $200 help you assume a x20 increase in Bitcoin compared to the risks of losing everything? I assume you also think a hardware wallet is a waste of money, so is having a separate machine for your wallet, right?

Again I'm surprised at the number of users claiming titanium is expensive, guys, it's not gold!!!


Titanium is not diamond, any cheap metal engraving tool will make a 1mm deep cut at every scratch with ease even with an amateur behind, if you're using a stamping tool, again it's easy for the average Joe, you're not using a 10-20 mm sheet IFV armour.


 

When metals are chosen, a metal sheet is used which can be as thin as 2-3 mm. Stamping them at home with a metal stamp tool like the picture below is very easy. These things have hardened tips that can easily indent the sheets with a small tap of a hammer.

When we talk about backup seed, It's not about cost or resistant heat. But, how easy are you stamping it.
if it's hard and difficult to stamp it, it is not really good, you can't read your seed clearly.

What are we really talking about here? You can literally find stainless steel everywhere around you in your everyday life. So, I doubt that buying a small piece of steel plate for jotting down your seed phrase will break the bank. Besides, if you cannot invest in a backup solution that costs just a few bucks, it raises questions about whether you have anything truly valuable to secure on your cold wallet.

I see no difference. Unless you work in a molten steel company and you are in danger of your seed phrase backup falling out of your pocket into the furnace, I think you should be ok.

Which is to say that I do not recommend carrying your seed phrase with you or leaving it somewhere where it can be easily or mistakenly found.

The fancier the metal you choose, the more attention it might get from people. And if you use gold, then everyone will want to take a look at your shiny and expensive-looking seed phrase.

An easy answer is, that we might not need that, because we prefer this option in the first place, because unfortunately, if we are stuck in a situation of fire, or any natural disaster or humanoid disaster, our seed phrase remains safely printed on the metal. Whatever metal we are using.

After searching the recent event in Hawaii, the temperature recorded there was around 1000 degrees centigrade, and as you mentioned, stainless steel can bear the temperature of 1400 to 1570 °C. So, I don't think we need any metal while the stainless steel can do the work.

For your understanding, I would like to add, that the highest recorded temperature was around 9k °C maybe, and it was recorded in a nuclear test of Trinity. I hope you will find it by searching on Google. And I hope you are not asking for a metal which can bear the nuclear too. Because in today's world, I don't think that you would be able to use your seed phrase after any nuclear war. You know the reason.

And you can check the current rates of all the three metals, you mentioned and can compare it as per your need.

Titanium   $9.00 - $15.00
Stainless steel   $0.50 - $1.00
Tungsten   $30.00 - $40.00
prices are old, but you can get the idea from it

According to what I saw about Titanium aluminide, it has high ductility which is the the ability of a material to have its shape changed if force is applied on it. Titanium is better, not tiitanium aluminide. Titanium aluminide also has a lower melting point if compared with pure titanium and instead of such alloy, stainless steel is better.

Titanium is just as good as Stainless steel.

It all comes down to preference and affordability. I think one of the reasons stainless steel has been recommended as good for seed phrase backup is because of its affordability. Besides to make titanium useful for extreme application it has to be alloyed with aluminum. Titanium aluminide is the material used for extreme applications.

Feel free to use whatever works for you. The goal is to ensure that your seed phrase is safe and doesn't ever fall into the wrong hands

Haha, What is it buddy like really?

I don't think anyone can get bored of the 1RS Paper and even that paper can be used 4 times by cutting it into pieces.. If you are comfortable with its lifeline better wrap it with a plastic sheet (Lamination). TBH Rather than wasting money on stainless steel I would prefer each penny to be invested in the Bitcoin, You kind of greedy with the stoshi's.

Choosing a seed phrase backup metal is down to personal preference, cost, and availability.
Tungsten will be a good metal for seed phrase backup but it's more expensive and not easy to obtain like stainless steel.
Titanium has lightweight and it's highly resistant to corrosion but it's not easy to find. Besides, it costs more than stainless steel.
Stainless steel on the other is heavy than Titanium but very affordable compared to both Titanium and Tungsten and it also has excellent resistance to corrosion.
People mainly talk about Stainless steel of its value. Titanium and Tungsten are options for the humpback whale, etc.

To reach 1400 °C is hard, a house fire isn't even reach that high. So it's either you intentionally want to melt it, an unknown meteor or someone use nuclear energy to destroy your place (which is high unlikely).

Stainless steel is enough and the best deal for it's price.

I know but you see from 815 Celcius degree to 1400 Celcius degree is big different in severity. From normal to abnormal (like 800 Celcius degree) and extremely bad (1400 Celcius degree and higher) are completely different in severity.

Let me repeat my opinion. It's good to use stainless steel or titanium steel than use a paper to save your private key, wallet seed but if you have to consider cost to use a stainless steel or a titanium steel, if the cost is big different, I will choose a stainless steel.

And I will not only have a single backup in a stainless steel but I will have others in paper pieces too.

Writing and safely keeping your seed phrase on paper can be more secure. I was just imagining the security risk that trying to inscribe your seed phrase can put you. Just imagine that the person who is going to inscribe your seed phrase for you on the Aluminum or Titanium knows what bitcoin is and also knows that some people prefer to safe their seed phrase on aluminum or Titanium. You will just be handing over your wallet to them and giving them the access they need when you innocently give the inscriber your seed phrase for the inscription.

Titanium could be far better than stainless steel but have you also consider the availability of titanium, it abundance in nature and the cost of using one when there's an alternative that is always available and affordable which is stainless steel materials, i also want to see this such a way that even titanium may not be the highest most preferred material one can use, others could be scare or far expensive than stainless steel or titanium.


What we are after is not the metallic property in their highest order of melting point, any material that can withstand a certain limit of heat temperature could be used as a mettalic sheath material for storing seed phrase, they all could serve the purpose, what is being most looked for is their durability and elasticity, which serves enough in this purpose.

Thats true, but if you want to safeguard your seed phrase from unforeseeable events like a house fire or flood, stainless steel or titanium metal plates are a much better storage option than regular paper or most other everyday materials.

"A standard house fire can reach temperatures of up to 1500 degrees Fahrenheit (815 Celcius)."

I did not say temperature can easily reach 1400 °C. From normal environmental temperature around 40 °C to like 200 °C is not easily but I meant if temperature already reaches to 1400 °C, I am sure it is a very serious situation which already out of control. I believe in uncontrollable situations like that, from 1400 °C to 1700 °C, it can be reached easily and quickly.

I also shared a same point like you. It does not worth to spend more expensive cost to have a titanium steel than a stainless steel and in return only have a bit more strength against some hundred of temperature.

If you have three backups of your seedphrase in three different locations from one another is the safest. This is because all the three locations can't experience a disaster at once. I believe that it will be fine if one uses paper or steel plate to write down seed phrase.

Anywhere that the temperature is above 1000°C is not safe for man anymore.  Steel is cheaper and easy to have access to.

You can get a plate big enough for your seed phrase from Amazon for $20
https://www.amazon.com/Titanium-Sheets/b?ie=UTF8&node=11260343011
remember you need to keep it as light and as small as possible to be able to hide it!

It's just that people like to level materials as the only ones good for something and stick to it or use a misleading term for it, like when talking about concrete and cement or iron and steel, so normally when average Joe talks about a metal he says steel, despite in a lot of cases not being stainless steel at all.


Titanium is just 6 on the Mohs scale, any cheap metal engraving pen will do the job, if we talk about a sheet 2 mm thick, then it's almost kid play.

Better stainless steel. Better round metal to use.

Trying to write seed phrase in materials such as stainless steel is not wrong because we have created stronger security. But is not a laminated paper that can also function well to write Seed Phrase because we have backups that are stored in several places that are not connected to the internet if there is still the intention to sell Bitcoin when the time has come.

If you have your seed phrase on a paper, it is better and it reduce noise because having backup on a metal plate is noisy in a way it can attract thieves and offline itax, unlike the backup on paper which may be unnoticeable.

Temperature can not easily reach $1400 degree Celsius.

Yes, it is the best all round metal to use. It is better than stainless steel for all the things we care about - melting point, corrosion resistance, reactivity, strength, and so on. It is a bit more expensive, but not as much as you would expect to just buy a small plain plate of reasonable thickness.

Having said all that, stainless steel is cheaper and still more than sufficient for our purposes. The melting point of steel is still well above the temperature reached in average house fires.

There are other things to consider beyond melting point. Pure tungsten is very brittle and will break and shatter with external stress. Not to mention you'll be hundreds if not thousands of dollars compared to $10 for stainless steel or $20 for titanium.

Peradventure we enter WW3 following recent happenings, we might need something to protect our treasure from bomb 

I a kind of agree with you that those protections are not really necessary; there is no need complicating things.

I could be wrong but I think there is big difference between 40 °C and a bit more than 100 °C or 200 °C but if your backup falls into a situation with temperature like 1400 °C or 1500 °C, I really believe that it is a very serious disaster and temperature can easily hit 1700 °C.

It does not worth your money to spend more to have a Titanium steel rather than a stainless steel with very small difference to be against high temperature and big difference in cost.

It is more easily, economic if you simply make some backups that can save you rather than only rely on either a stainless steel or a titanium steel.

Metal Bitcoin Seed Storage Stress Test (round VI)

Stainless steel can be rust and corrosion compared to titanium it is resistant to both rust and corrosion. However, titanium is a bit pricey compared to stainless steel.

Paper wallets are not good in a wet place that's why having a metal sheet to store seed backup is way more better for the long term.

Probably the higher price of the material, but also one more thing. The harder material, Titanium in this case requires a different type of processing, certainly and more expensive. Well, the seed phrase engraving itself can cost significantly more compared to the same print on "ordinary" stainless steel.


Exactly this. In case such a situation happens where the melting point of your seed card is crucial, I believe that at that moment there will be some more serious things to worry about. Probably a struggle for bare life.

Melting point is not the only measure, otherwise you can search for metals that have a high melting point, such as Tungsten (T) and Rhenium (Re), but there are several options:

• Cost: Stainless steel is cheaper
• Possibility of obtaining it without attracting attention: Some metals need to be ordered and you will not find them in local stores
• Its need for moving points: Moving points are the weak point.
• Malleability and formability:
• Bearing solvents
• Ease of use and concealment

part of those apply to stainless steel, but you can search for other metals, and if the characteristics apply to them or you focus on a specific characteristic, you can use it.

I have stored seed phrase in the sample paper and before your post I was thinking that writing phrase in hard paper is enough. should we used high melting point for saving and how much worth it is if we want to store one seed phrase?

Where are you going to take your seed to?

Are you going to visit a volcano with it? Going to war?

You really don't need all that protection   

Good old paper will do just fine for 99.99% of people. Paper can last for years... I have the same paper from 2017 with my seed

Steel, or titanium,  or paper, whatever,  you can use them if you wish. I just recommend to have a second backup of your seed somewhere else.

The reason why most users recommend steel instead of the rest is because of the cost of getting them.

If you check, steel can resist temperature changes to a very high degree (although the rest do better than it in this scenario) but when the price comes into play it becomes more desirable for an average man, and when giving recommendations we normally go with the one that will suites everyone and yet easily accessible.

I have noticed very well on this forum that stainless steel is good for seed phrase backup because it has high melting point which can be between 1400 to 1530 °C.

Recently I saw the review of iPhone 15 series and I noticed that titanium has a higher melting point which is 1668 °C.

I have not seen people recommending metal like Titanium on this forum. Is it not better than stainless steel?

Another question is that I found out that Tungsten has the highest melting point of all metal on the periodic table, which is 3422 °C. Is this not the metal that supposed to be used for seed phrase backup? Or is it very expensive and not affordable?