State sponsored trolls | Bitcointalksearch.org

Quickseller

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Quote from: RodeoX on October 01, 2018, 02:45:03 PM

The best idea is to open your mind, drop your bias and superstition, learn logic. People who think for themselves are not very susceptible to propaganda and fake Russian stories. It really is the stupidest people that are trolled in by the ridiculous exaggerations and preposterous claims of trolls.

Exactly.

The best way to fight “trolls” and/or propaganda is to apply critical thinking to anything you read and learn how to verify what is and isn’t true. Trying to stomp out trolls is ultimately fruitless and will result in citizens blindly reading ultimately what will be misinformation.

Frankly I am not at all surprised to see it is the OP complaining about this given his political beliefs.

mazdafunsun

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Quote from: RodeoX on October 01, 2018, 02:45:03 PM

The best idea is to open your mind, drop your bias and superstition, learn logic. People who think for themselves are not very susceptible to propaganda and fake Russian stories. It really is the stupidest people that are trolled in by the ridiculous exaggerations and preposterous claims of trolls.

The intelegent people see the propoganda setup but not so intelegent do not, this is obvious but since most of people do not see it. it makes it extremely dengerous .
Unfortunately stupid people have siginifant amount of power. The Russian propoganda with their huge resources is something that troubles me since I am living in area which was occupied by this country for decades.

It is not clear of which trolls tough the OP is talking about, or is he talking about any sepcific trolls.

xtraelv

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State sponsored trolls ?

Dole bludgers that spent their time trolling the internet ? Roll Eyes

HorseMajor

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bluefirecorp_

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Quote from: suchmoon on October 01, 2018, 06:49:08 PM

Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on October 01, 2018, 05:18:33 PM

CSpan links to CIA? Hmm. That just seems like moving the goal post.

What goalposts? You moved the goalposts out of the stadium and sold them for scrap metal with your harebrained "anyone who links to a website must be employed by the owners of said website" theory.

Uhhh. I mean, if it were one or two posts, it wouldn't be that bad.

When 30% of every post contains a link back to that site, it wouldn't surprise me if he's being paid to spread the shit.

suchmoon

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Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on October 01, 2018, 05:18:33 PM

CSpan links to CIA? Hmm. That just seems like moving the goal post.

What goalposts? You moved the goalposts out of the stadium and sold them for scrap metal with your harebrained "anyone who links to a website must be employed by the owners of said website" theory.

Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on October 01, 2018, 05:18:33 PM

Pretty sure off-topic and useless posts are just as bad as double posting. Adding new information to the thread isn't exactly the same as a bump.

If I posted using an alt-account, it'd not really be much different. =/

Multiposting is against the rules, same account or alt accounts - same thing. Don't do it.

Tszunami98

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Quote from: RodeoX on October 01, 2018, 02:45:03 PM

The best idea is to open your mind, drop your bias and superstition, learn logic. People who think for themselves are not very susceptible to propaganda and fake Russian stories. It really is the stupidest people that are trolled in by the ridiculous exaggerations and preposterous claims of trolls.

Sadly, can't say the same thing about fake American stories.

bluefirecorp_

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Quote from: suchmoon on October 01, 2018, 05:07:21 PM

Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on October 01, 2018, 04:38:29 PM

Ha. BADecker links to it quite often. The site is filled with standard Russian propaganda.

>Created Date: 2005-06-20

Totally from the 90s tho xD

I was referring to its look&feel.

You don't really have to dig that deep. E.g. RT is Kremlin's website so you can simply label anyone who links to RT as being state-sponsored. Anyone who links to Al Jazeera works for Qatar. Anyone who links to C-SPAN is a CIA agent. Anyone who links to Fox News is probably a kangaroo.

Also anyone who links to Washington Post is an Amazon shill because why not.

CSpan links to CIA? Hmm. That just seems like moving the goal post.

But it's crazy how much of the "alt-right" culture is supported by the Russian state.

Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on October 01, 2018, 05:15:11 PM

Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on October 01, 2018, 04:54:54 PM

Neat, found another state sponsored site: sovereignman

Slow down there chief! While I don't have any intentions to sabotage your mission on finding the secret agents, I might just report your posts for posting sequentially in less than 24 hours a day (that is thread bumping). Gleb gets temp ban for that stuff quite often.

Pretty sure off-topic and useless posts are just as bad as double posting. Adding new information to the thread isn't exactly the same as a bump.

If I posted using an alt-account, it'd not really be much different. =/

Joel_Jantsen

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Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on October 01, 2018, 04:54:54 PM

Neat, found another state sponsored site: sovereignman

Slow down there chief! While I don't have any intentions to sabotage your mission on finding the secret agents, I might just report your posts for posting sequentially in less than 24 hours a day (that is thread bumping). Gleb gets temp ban for that stuff quite often.

suchmoon

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Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on October 01, 2018, 04:38:29 PM

Ha. BADecker links to it quite often. The site is filled with standard Russian propaganda.

>Created Date: 2005-06-20

Totally from the 90s tho xD

I was referring to its look&feel.

You don't really have to dig that deep. E.g. RT is Kremlin's website so you can simply label anyone who links to RT as being state-sponsored. Anyone who links to Al Jazeera works for Qatar. Anyone who links to C-SPAN is a CIA agent. Anyone who links to Fox News is probably a kangaroo.

Also anyone who links to Washington Post is an Amazon shill because why not.

bluefirecorp_

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Neat, found another state sponsored site: sovereignman

bluefirecorp_

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Quote from: suchmoon on October 01, 2018, 04:30:07 PM

Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on October 01, 2018, 04:22:11 PM

Neat, found a propaganda site setup by the Kremlin through an American actor (freedomsphoenix). Any account linking to this site is probably state sponsored.

You mean this ugly-ass site from 1990s http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/ ?

Feel free to assume I'm state-sponsored but I'm gonna link to it once in a while just to mess with you.

Ha. BADecker links to it quite often. The site is filled with standard Russian propaganda.

>Created Date: 2005-06-20

Totally from the 90s tho xD

suchmoon

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Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on October 01, 2018, 04:22:11 PM

Neat, found a propaganda site setup by the Kremlin through an American actor (freedomsphoenix). Any account linking to this site is probably state sponsored.

You mean this ugly-ass site from 1990s http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/ ?

Feel free to assume I'm state-sponsored but I'm gonna link to it once in a while just to mess with you.

bluefirecorp_

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Neat, found a propaganda site setup by the Kremlin through an American actor (freedomsphoenix). Any account linking to this site is probably state sponsored.

InvoKing

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Quote from: eddie13 on October 01, 2018, 02:16:37 PM

I Found One!

Wow - u=654

Rather than ban him, I hope he comes back..

Yeah, I missed kwuckduck "reverse" prediction of bitcoin price. I no longer can predict the price : BTC price = inv(kwuckduck's predicted price).

I remember 10 years ago one of the forums that I used to visit was an excellent one especially in its news section. Now that section is full of random topics about Russian new jet fighter and missiles, Russian and Iranian "saving" Syria, clever Trump... Same names, same speech repeated over and over... It is disgusting!

RodeoX

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The best idea is to open your mind, drop your bias and superstition, learn logic. People who think for themselves are not very susceptible to propaganda and fake Russian stories. It really is the stupidest people that are trolled in by the ridiculous exaggerations and preposterous claims of trolls.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 01, 2018, 01:58:57 AM

If any state wants to sponsor my posts, please contact me Cheesy

I accept Bitcoin Tongue

Seriously though: which state? Many states have different interests, and I don't think they'll gain much from trolling on this forum.

Many countries do it. Some of the groups got compromised by whistleblowers like this one:

Quote

The web brigades (Russian: Beб-бpигaды), also known as Russia's troll army, Russian bots, Kremlinbots,[1] troll factory,[2][3] or troll farms are state-sponsored anonymous Internet political commentators and trolls linked to the Russian government. Participants report that they are organized into teams and groups of commentators that participate in Russian and international political blogs and Internet forums using sockpuppets and large-scale orchestrated trolling and disinformation campaigns to promote pro-Putin and pro-Russian propaganda.[4][5][6][7] It has also been found that articles on Russian Wikipedia concerning the MH17 crash and the 2014 Ukraine conflict were targeted by Russian internet propaganda outlets.[8][9][10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades

There are articles about similar groups working for North Korea and China. It's another form of propaganda. Long time ago they were throwing pamphlets, now they're posting on forums.

eddie13

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I Found One!

Wow - u=654

Rather than ban him, I hope he comes back..

Flying Hellfish

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Quote from: hilariousetc on October 01, 2018, 06:42:19 AM

Where does BadDecker fit into this? Is he a troll or just an idiot? You can often never tell.

How about hes an idiot troll, I think both descriptions are especially appropriate in his case!

YOSHIE

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Quote from: suchmoon on October 01, 2018, 12:53:44 AM

Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on September 30, 2018, 10:24:41 PM

State sponsored trolls are part of reality.

Opinion != reality.

If you have some personal issues with specific users, which is what this sounds like - ignore them.

I agree? Ignore?

This site is used as a base for provoking Negative sites, Trolls aspire to violence, it feeds the reactions of their victims, ignore it?

For example:
the simplest, sometimes things can get a little hot on Facebook, Twitter, or in the comments section of your favorite political website, so be careful about Trolls.

HeRetiK

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Quote from: suchmoon on October 01, 2018, 11:54:25 AM

I just realized that most of the responses in this thread are exactly what state-sponsored trolls would say. "Don't go looking for us, we don't exist, freedom of speech !!!#E#@$%!"

That's just paranoid, why would we they do that?

suchmoon

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I just realized that most of the responses in this thread are exactly what state-sponsored trolls would say. "Don't go looking for us, we don't exist, freedom of speech !!!#E#@$%!"

HeRetiK

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Why just state sponsored trolls though? There's corporate sock puppets as well.

Still, assuming either are active on Bitcointalk -- How would you discern a paid troll that is part of grander scheme from someone that is trolling for fun or simply has a dissenting opinion?

I doubt reliably uncovering state sponsored trolls is possible. And short of being able to do that, banning people for merely voicing dissenting opinions only leads to a divided community which is precisely what governmental and corporate trolls would want.

bluefirecorp_

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Quote from: Welsh on October 01, 2018, 10:42:28 AM

Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on October 01, 2018, 10:13:27 AM

This isn't just opinion. State sponsored trolls have been proven to exist repetitively. To try to deny this reality is akin to denying climate change or evolution.

Yeah, but have they been proven to exist here on Bitcointalk? The thing is with these sorts of things its too difficult to determine whether the user actually believes what they are saying or if its completely fabricated because of the so called sponsorship from the state

It's hard to prove the existence of those individual trolls, but yes. I do believe they exist here. If you look at the list of fake news sites, you'll see them published quite often by a small segment of users.

I'm pretty sure these users don't actually believe these sites but rather are paid to spread the links.

Welsh

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Quote from: hilariousetc on October 01, 2018, 06:42:19 AM

I'm not denying the existence of them, but I think governments probably have bigger and better things to do than troll a bitcoin forum. Most of the "trolls" here do it just for kicks. They're sad and pathetic people and that's how they get off, but that's not something that concerns them.

Yeah, you would think a FUD campaign would be far more effective than someone who's known to have a few outlandish claims.

Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on October 01, 2018, 10:13:27 AM

This isn't just opinion. State sponsored trolls have been proven to exist repetitively. To try to deny this reality is akin to denying climate change or evolution.

Yeah, but have they been proven to exist here on Bitcointalk? The thing is with these sorts of things its too difficult to determine whether the user actually believes what they are saying or if its completely fabricated because of the so called sponsorship from the state

suchmoon

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Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on October 01, 2018, 10:13:27 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on October 01, 2018, 12:53:44 AM

Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on September 30, 2018, 10:24:41 PM

State sponsored trolls are part of reality.

Opinion != reality.

If you have some personal issues with specific users, which is what this sounds like - ignore them.

This isn't just opinion. State sponsored trolls have been proven to exist repetitively. To try to deny this reality is akin to denying climate change or evolution.

Are we still talking about this forum or some global issue with facetwit et al? I'm not aware of any state-sponsored trolls being proven to exist "repetitively" on this forum. At any rate, ignore works just fine.

bluefirecorp_

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Quote from: suchmoon on October 01, 2018, 12:53:44 AM

Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on September 30, 2018, 10:24:41 PM

State sponsored trolls are part of reality.

Opinion != reality.

If you have some personal issues with specific users, which is what this sounds like - ignore them.

This isn't just opinion. State sponsored trolls have been proven to exist repetitively. To try to deny this reality is akin to denying climate change or evolution.

Quote from: hilariousetc on October 01, 2018, 06:42:19 AM

Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on September 30, 2018, 10:24:41 PM

State sponsored trolls are part of reality. I was just curious how bitcointalk should handle such incidents.

I'm not denying the existence of them, but I think governments probably have bigger and better things to do than troll a bitcoin forum. Most of the "trolls" here do it just for kicks. They're sad and pathetic people and that's how they get off, but that's not something that concerns them.

Ha, you'd think they'd not bother targeting individual small forums and instead target larger social media sites, but that's not really the case. They're working everywhere.

How do you prove an individual isn't a state sponsored troll? It's quite difficult without some deep analyst of the user's post history, times, etc. If they're posting often enough and through multiple sock puppet accounts, correlating that is a difficult thing.

Don Pedro Dinero

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There are hardly any trolls in this forum, compared to the other ones I’ve been.

If OP means someone who is paid by the government to create opinion, for example that bitcoin is a fraud and that only fiat currencies are trustable, that looks to me more like a community manager. But it is impossible to know if that person is being paid or not. Anyway, it isn’t a big deal.

hilariousetc

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Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on September 30, 2018, 10:24:41 PM

State sponsored trolls are part of reality. I was just curious how bitcointalk should handle such incidents.

I'm not denying the existence of them, but I think governments probably have bigger and better things to do than troll a bitcoin forum. Most of the "trolls" here do it just for kicks. They're sad and pathetic people and that's how they get off, but that's not something that concerns them.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Maybe we should clarify the definition of troll?

For example, people on Dunning–Kruger effect act in similar way with trolls, but they're not and they barely know anything.
Does people who against specific idea such as LN automatically become trolls if their knowledge/opinion on other subject is fine?

Where does BadDecker fit into this? Is he a troll or just an idiot? You can often never tell.

JetAid

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It would be great if we could have some government representatives posting on the forum. Maybe we should even have a board for them.

I get the impression that they aren't too knowledgeable about crypto though, so they would probably just be running bounties to try to reduce a few national debts.

Quickseller

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I suspect you are referring to what you are saying in this thread I already resonated to, so I will post my response to that thread.

Quote from: Quickseller on October 01, 2018, 01:16:03 AM

This seems like a fairly credible accusation.

I demand a full FBI investigation into this matter.

Until BADecker can disprove this, the administration should label all of his posts "potential state sponsored propaganda" despite the lack of evidence to corroborate this accusation.

Edit: I just voted that we should ban these people. But we should only do this as long as there is zero evidence to support these people are state sponsored trolls. I also don’t think a ban will go far enough. We should post all their sensitive information, but also only as long as there is zero evidence to supine this in order to prevent anyone from presenting evidence.

LoyceV

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If any state wants to sponsor my posts, please contact me Cheesy

I accept Bitcoin Tongue

Seriously though: which state? Many states have different interests, and I don't think they'll gain much from trolling on this forum.

cabron

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Sponsored trolls may not be here, I think they had to access media after all they do have budget for that, take a look at Craig Wright and that Jaime Dimon who can publish on big news site and were interviewed by big networks. These guys had successfully drag the price down because of trolling but in the end they also give opportunities for those who hadn't bought cheaper BTC. Give thanks to them don't scare them away.

suchmoon

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Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on September 30, 2018, 10:24:41 PM

State sponsored trolls are part of reality.

Opinion != reality.

If you have some personal issues with specific users, which is what this sounds like - ignore them.

bluefirecorp_

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Quote from: HiDevin on September 30, 2018, 10:56:04 PM

I don't think they should be removed to be honest, sure you can red trust them but I think like LoyceV said, " Bitcointalk isn't SJWtalk. "

Ha, if only the web of trust wasn't entirely useless. :p

Being politically incorrect and spreading misinformation/propaganda aren't exactly the same, but they do seem to feel similar.

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so.. hru?

Quote from: Dig Bicks on September 30, 2018, 10:32:29 PM

It's nearly impossible to identify them. I don't really think there is anything we can do.

I'm starting to question if you are a troll or not, or just aggressive to some people.

Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on September 30, 2018, 10:24:41 PM

State sponsored trolls are part of reality. I was just curious how bitcointalk should handle such incidents.

Identification of state sponsored trolls is quite a difficult thing by nature, but they exist. How do you sort them from real trolls is a more difficult question?

Anyone have any suggestions or comments?

I don't think they should be removed to be honest, sure you can red trust them but I think like LoyceV said, " Bitcointalk isn't SJWtalk. "

Dig Bicks

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It's nearly impossible to identify them. I don't really think there is anything we can do.

bluefirecorp_

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State sponsored trolls are part of reality. I was just curious how bitcointalk should handle such incidents.

Identification of state sponsored trolls is quite a difficult thing by nature, but they exist. How do you sort them from real trolls is a more difficult question?

Anyone have any suggestions or comments?

Topic: State sponsored trolls (Read 537 times)