static vs eta vs mempool please help with this

ranochigo

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Quote from: freddyjuarez on July 16, 2021, 05:48:06 PM

Thanks guys for answering my question I'm pretty much still confused i need to study this stuff...

But in the mean time can you answer this example if i was to send $500 worth and used eta with the slider all the way to the right what will the fee be? Sorry if this question doesn't make sense or if theres no specific fee amount for specific amount being sent

Moving it all the way to the right pretty much guarantees a confirmation within the next block, because of how high the fee rate is. When you are shifting the slider, a dialog will appear telling you the estimated number of blocks it takes for a confirmation and the fee rates being paid. You should see the total fees paid getting increased as well.

As I've said, ETA is designed to overpay and for obvious reasons. Use mempool as an estimation if you're not worried about when it will confirm and ensure that the transaction is replaceable. You will be able to increase the fees later on if desired.

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Quote from: freddyjuarez on July 16, 2021, 05:48:06 PM

Sorry if this question doesn't make sense or if theres no specific fee amount for specific amount being sent

In bitcoin you are paying for the space in a block not the amount you send. So if your transaction size is smaller you pay less and if it is bigger you pay more. The size depends on what @hosseinimr93 said: number of inputs/outputs and type of them.

This site is not the most accurate but it should give you the idea of how things work: https://coinb.in/#fees

Quote from: freddyjuarez on July 16, 2021, 05:48:06 PM

used eta with the slider all the way to the right what will the fee be?

I have never used ETA myself but checking it right now it looks like it is grossly overpaying when brought all the way to the right, it currently suggests 15.1 sat/vbyte while the mempool is small and 1 sat/vbyte gets you high priority.

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Quote from: freddyjuarez on July 16, 2021, 05:48:06 PM

But in the mean time can you answer this example if i was to send $500 worth and used eta with the slider all the way to the right what will the fee be?

First of all, note that you don't pay the fee in dollars. You pay the fee in bitcoin.

If you move the slider all the way to the right, electrum will set the fee rate so that your transaction will likely be confirmed in the next block.
The required fee rate is dynamic and depends on network status. The more busy the network is, the higher fee rate is needed.

The total fee you need to pay depends on number of inputs, number of outputs and your addresses type (legacy, nested segwit or native segwit) too.

freddyjuarez

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Thanks guys for answering my question I'm pretty much still confused i need to study this stuff...

But in the mean time can you answer this example if i was to send $500 worth and used eta with the slider all the way to the right what will the fee be? Sorry if this question doesn't make sense or if theres no specific fee amount for specific amount being sent

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Quote from: BitMaxz on July 16, 2021, 11:41:11 AM

It may depend on the connected electrum server. When I make a transaction with Electrum I sometimes check ETA to check blocks and fees and use Mempool to target 1MB below but when I check them on jochen-hoenicke.de or in mempool.space it's suggestion lesser fee than the estimation fee from Electrum. So I tried to find out why so I change the connected server to another server and the fee estimation for ETA and Mempool now show lower than before.

So you might be connected to the other server before that suggesting 100sat/byte?

I think it is just a bad estimator. They are worried about a fast confirmation (no matter the price you are paying), not worried about spending less as possible in a fast confirmation.

Quote from: bitmover on November 09, 2020, 09:48:28 PM

I was taking a look at the mempool now and I noticed that.
Anyone could get a confirmation with 1 sat/byte. But there are a lot of transactions paying 20,30,200, even 400 sat/byte.

I don't know if those transactions are miners spamming the network, or just newbies using blockchain.info and similar wallets?

Quote from: Coin_trader on November 09, 2020, 09:55:31 PM

Electrum wallet default transaction fee for 5 blocks below is still 200sat/byte. I believe that ain't newbie sending that transaction that using 200sat/byte for fee because personally I don't manual input transaction because I don't want to manually check the preferred fee based on mempool condition by the time I want to send transaction.

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Quote from: bitmover on July 16, 2021, 11:03:02 AM

When I was creating this website (which works similar to mempool.space and others) I was watching the mempool many times a day. I saw more than once Electrum overestimating fees, suggesting like 100sat/vbyte while you could get a confirmation within a decent amount of time for less than 10 sat/vbyte.

I think mempool.space estimator is better than those native wallet estimators, you just need to understand a little to learn how to use it.

It is designed to do so. If you want to base your fees using the position in the mempool, then there is a mempool option as well and that is approximately the same as any other mempool histograms.

IIRC, Electrum takes the ETA data from the server but can build the mempool histogram. I found it to be quite consistent with Bitcoin Core's which tracks the time it takes for transactions in their mempool to be included in a block and is calculated based on that. While this can resulted in a very conservative fees, it'll take into account block times, intervals, etc and give the user a better chance to hit the estimate.

Mempool.space's priority estimation, I think (maybe I'll take a look at their code in the future, not now) uses the mempool and the estimated transactions that is included in each block. Does it take into account the time elapsed from which the previous block was mined? This results in a far more responsive target but also doesn't average out the irregularities in block intervals. This will strictly be cheaper but it is definitely not as accurate.

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Quote from: bitmover on July 16, 2021, 11:03:02 AM

I saw more than once Electrum overestimating fees, suggesting like 100sat/vbyte while you could get a confirmation within a decent amount of time for less than 10 sat/vbyte.

It may depend on the connected electrum server. When I make a transaction with Electrum I sometimes check ETA to check blocks and fees and use Mempool to target 1MB below but when I check them on jochen-hoenicke.de or in mempool.space it's suggestion lesser fee than the estimation fee from Electrum. So I tried to find out why so I change the connected server to another server and the fee estimation for ETA and Mempool now show lower than before.

So you might be connected to the other server before that suggesting 100sat/byte?

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Quote from: ranochigo on July 16, 2021, 10:27:03 AM

What wallet were you using? Any well-designed wallet will not provide any estimates without a reasonable certainty that the confirmation would be met within the target. Floating fees in the wallets are fairly well-designed and users shouldn't face a problem using it. In fact, I would recommend for newbies to be using Electrum's ETA if they have no idea what they're doing. Simply looking at the mempool graph doesn't take into account all of the factors that would affect the time it takes for a transaction that it takes to get a confirmation. Floating fees are designed to be dummy-proof and we wouldn't include it if we can't consistently meet the target.

Mempool.space's estimation is quite vague, as compared to both Bitcoin Core and Electrum's which gives you the estimated number of blocks it should take.

I usually have the exactly opposite problem, as those wallet overestimate transaction fees. So people most of the overpay fees.

When I was creating this website (which works similar to mempool.space and others) I was watching the mempool many times a day. I saw more than once Electrum overestimating fees, suggesting like 100sat/vbyte while you could get a confirmation within a decent amount of time for less than 10 sat/vbyte.

I think mempool.space estimator is better than those native wallet estimators, you just need to understand a little to learn how to use it.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on July 16, 2021, 10:08:08 AM

I will not advice people to directly be making use of fee estimation on wallets, I have made transactions before with wallet normal fee estimation and takes almost a day before the normal fee estimated got my Bitcoin transaction confirmed.

What wallet were you using? Any well-designed wallet will not provide any estimates without a reasonable certainty that the confirmation would be met within the target. Floating fees in the wallets are fairly well-designed and users shouldn't face a problem using it. In fact, I would recommend for newbies to be using Electrum's ETA if they have no idea what they're doing. Simply looking at the mempool graph doesn't take into account all of the factors that would affect the time it takes for a transaction that it takes to get a confirmation. Floating fees are designed to be dummy-proof and we wouldn't include it if we can't consistently meet the target.

Mempool.space's estimation is quite vague, as compared to both Bitcoin Core and Electrum's which gives you the estimated number of blocks it should take.

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Quote from: bitmover on July 16, 2021, 08:36:55 AM

Quote from: NeuroticFish on July 16, 2021, 06:37:13 AM

Or, even better, try to understand the charts from https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,24h and https://mempool.space/ , use static and put the value you want.

I think this is the best option. Try to understand and choose the best fee for your hurry.

Mempool.space is the best website for that, and you should look for the suggested fee for 10minutes (1 block)/3 blocks (30min) and so on and just choose it.

I totally agree with you, advanced users also still recommend https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,24h, using httts://mempool.space to set fee while making Bitcoin transactions is very good solution for newbies to understand how to easily make use of fee estimator. I will not advice people to directly be making use of fee estimation on wallets, I have made transactions before with wallet normal fee estimation and takes almost a day before the normal fee estimated got my Bitcoin transaction confirmed.

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Quote from: bitmover on July 16, 2021, 08:36:55 AM

Quote from: NeuroticFish on July 16, 2021, 06:37:13 AM

Or, even better, try to understand the charts from https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,24h and https://mempool.space/ , use static and put the value you want.

I think this is the best option. Try to understand and choose the best fee for your hurry.

That's what I do. And even more, I use decimal point numbers for the fee.
But some don't have the patience to care for such details. And then they have the other options; for example if in hurry use ETA since it'll overpay exactly to reach the "hurry" goal.

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on July 16, 2021, 06:37:13 AM

Or, even better, try to understand the charts from https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,24h and https://mempool.space/ , use static and put the value you want.

I think this is the best option. Try to understand and choose the best fee for your hurry.

Mempool.space is the best website for that, and you should look for the suggested fee for 10minutes (1 block)/3 blocks (30min) and so on and just choose it.

ranochigo

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Don't use static. If you don't know what you're doing, you're going to pay fees that are either too high or too low.

ETA is very conservative and nets you a confirmation within the specified number of blocks almost all the time. This also means it tends to overpay for the fees.

Mempool, is only indicative of the fee rates at current X MB from the tip of the mempool. It gives a spot reading and does not actually reflect the current network conditions. However, if you aim for 1vMB from the tip of the mempool, you should get a confirmation within the next block or in a few hours. That varies depending on the circumstances.

When you use a slider, there should be a box which is displayed and that tells you how many blocks before you can get a confirmation or X vMB from the tip.

Sliding to the right means that you will pay more for the fees and a potentially faster confirmation.

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I think that when in hurry you may be better with ETA and if not in a hurry, mempool.
Or, even better, try to understand the charts from https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,24h and https://mempool.space/ , use static and put the value you want.

And yes, the higher the fee, the faster the confirmation should be (unless a huge lot of new transactions come with even higher fee).

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Hey everyone can you guys tell me the best settings i should set on Electrum i wanna keep it simple

Also what's the best setting to use when sending Bitcoin
static vs eta vs mempool should i keep the slider in the middle?
I also want to keep this simple

Question moving the slider all the way up does it mean higher fee but faster confirmation and delivery? Huh

Topic: static vs eta vs mempool please help with this (Read 174 times)