Topic: Steelwallets and Airport Security - Potential Exposure Concerns (Read 622 times)

New fear unlocked! I never assumed that a seed phrase would be  possibly read under an airport x machine!
So, OP the previous message is totally a sensible suggestion: seed phrases are nice to be held in a secure place, those are no need to ever be taken out of of that secure place.

If I were you, I wouldn't carry a big steel wallet during my trips. Since you put your seed phrases on a steel wallet, I assume you intended to create a cold wallet, so a cold wallet should be kept in a safe place, not in your pocket during the trip. If you still want to keep some metals, then just create a metal keychain and imprint your wallet's seed phrases. I think no one in the airport can have an issue with that because that's a keychain and it doesn't contain anything illegal, just a few non-offensive words.

This was a hypothetical idea that should not be taken as a guide to action, but demonstrates an alternative way to resolve the issue using a (temporary and not the most secure) way of storing seed phrases. Instead of a laptop, there can be any other device, preferably one that will not be of any interest to either thieves or customs officers.

The choice of carrier for the seed phrase is limited only by your imagination: even encrypt it in the form of a tattoo like the hero of the movie “Prison Break”.

The development of technology is inevitable, as well as an increase in the interest of government agencies (customs officers, as their representatives) in everything related to cryptocurrencies (seed phrases), thanks to the popularization of crypto (you all wanted mass adoption, right?).

X-ray sees only metal. This is a hint on how to transport a phrase across the border if it is unavoidably necessary.

And that’s why X-ray scanners pose the least threat to bitcoiners. And that is why it is extremely dangerous to carry the seed phrase with you. Even once to cross the border.

But in this case, you are still carrying with you a seed phrase written on paper (unencrypted) that is easy to read with eyes.

Alternative: take a hardware wallet (from which it is almost impossible to extract the seed phrase), move to another country, create a new  seed phrase (on the new hardware wallet) and send all the funds to the new wallet. As a result, you have the seed phrase in your hands, a wallet with access, and the  seed phrase crosses the border in a format inaccessible to others.

I don’t understand why you need to carry a seed phrase with you when there are hardware wallets. If anyone other than you gains access to hardware wallet, then they still will not have access to the seed phrase and your crypto assets. This is one of the greatest advantages of hardware wallets. To tickle your nerves and take another risk?

The idea of engraving on the inside of your laptop case isn't too bad, but laptops are also an item which you use regularly in public and are quite attractive to being stolen. If you did engrave to the inside of your laptop case, you're now taking your code with you everywhere you take your laptop...

...I'm genuinely concerned about the alien spewing acid onto my steel plate now, although I had never though of that before!

Jokes aside, there are tonnes of reasons to ask this question because everyone's situation is different. What if (as was previously mentioned) you have no fixed address or you are going to move overseas for an extended period, wishing to keep access to your back up code without relying on calling a family member or friend and asking them to go dig up your steel backup at coordinate x,y? Anyway, whatever the reason...

X-ray scanners and cameras technology are constantly improving their resolution, so I would say if the technology doesn't already exist to read a backup phrase engraved on steel... it will someday, and that could hypothetically be tomorrow.

I would say that recovery plates which are flat shaped would be easiest to read, while something which is stacked would be much more difficult. This goes for xray scans and also a security guard momentarily bringing it out of your bag to see what it is. There may be other brands also, but I use Cryptosteel as an example of a "stacked" backup.

Some steel backups can also be disassembled.
So an option for you moving through a xray scanner could be,
first copy your 12/24 words from the steel onto a piece of paper,
fold or roll it up and hide it somewhere,
disassemble your steel backup,
travel through the xray,
once arrived at new destination reassemble the steel backup from the transcription,
destroy the paper copy.

People usually don't carry their metal seed words on every travel they make, this should be only done if you are moving away to a different country, or if they plan to do some coin and seed words management.
Any stainless steel will likely be detected by airport scanners, but there are some ways of mitigating this and one of them are faraday bags with your steelwallet placed inside.
There are even faraday wallets, but there is a risk with this method, so I would propose making your own DIY backups, or using temporary paper or plastic backup.
I was even thinking of using old G-shock (or other) wristwatches that have large databank functionality with passwords, that can be great stealth way for passing borders easily.

[/quote] This depends on the paranoia that each person has regarding the possession of their coins.

Do you just want to protect your coins from agents and scanners getting access to your coins, but it's okay if they know you have a steel plate or hardware wallet?

So in this case, I recommend carrying a ready-to-use hardware wallet with the seed phrase defined and then using it normally.

If you are carrying a stainless steel plate, it's better to add your funds in a BIP-39 passphrase, but then you have to either memorize this passphrase or keep it in separate places from the seedphrase, such as encrypted in open source mobile password managers.

If you think that being seen with a hardware wallet or a seed phrase on a steel plate is a threat to you, I recommend that you don't even carry these two items, just carry an encrypted hot wallet on your cell phone, at least momentarily until you arrive in the destination country. I wouldn't trust my seedphrase to anyone, so I don't think it's a valid alternative.

There is a big chance that the words printed on the stainless steel will be revealed, no one should pass through such checkup and go back to their normal lives as if nothing is wrong with this.

I won't think twice about this, I will definitely move my funds Somewhere else, I think a hardware wallet is better for passing such security check than a stainless. I can the wrong.

What do you guys think? A hardware wallet isn't supposed to raise any concern if you can pass through security checks with your smartphone I think, or there is more that I don't know? Enlighten me.

Dangerous, so dangerous.

There are always cameras everywhere, that makes the recovery seed not safe anymore, if I find myself in such a situation, It is time to move all my funds off that recovery seed into another wallet.

Another good reason to always have sending fee available in your crypto wallets for urgent matter like this.

I remember when a cousin of mine came into my home and I was out for a hour, when I got back I noticed someone entered my room, and since I have been hearing stuff about this cousin of mine when it comes to money, I quickly send all my assets from the wallet to another.

It was later he came to start asking questions about crypto coins and how to sell them, he had access to the recovery seed but he didn't know how to sell them, this was how I escaped then, and now I live far away from family members.

Keep a hardware wallet on hand (with the entered seed phrase) or, as a last resort, a installed hot wallet (with a strong password and adding the 13 or 25 word to minimize hacking).

The seed phrase essentially acts as a backup, which must be stored in case of emergency (loss of access to the wallet) and is completely unsuitable for traveling to other countries or everyday use (excessive risks).

I am focusing on the fact that it is stupid to carry the seed phrase with you anywhere, and even more so in foreign countries. It is no less stupid to have only 1 backup.

If you have time to move the contents of your wallet.

Imagine you are traveling and taking 2 backups of seed phrases with you in your backpack. Your backpack has been stolen. Will having 2 backups help you? No. If the 2nd backup was left in your home country, how quickly can you return and move the contents of the wallets? Not very soon.

Possible solution (not ideal): storing the backup with a person you trust (a very reliable partner or heir), who, if necessary (theft or loss of seed phrases) will be able to quickly access the backup and move the contents of the wallet.

You want, as in that joke about a taxi driver: “checkers or go”. If you want decentralization, suffer with seed phrases and with subsequent personal responsibility. If you want centralization, go to the bank. If you try to combine these two opposites - go to Square/Block with bitkey wallet and Ledger with recovery function. But then don't complain or whine about the problems associated with it.

We don't know mate, maybe he is trying to migrate on a new location? If not, yeah, it's definitely a worse idea to carry it anywhere at all times because we can lose it even if we pass the inspection at the airports, mall, or somewhere else... A scissor is a sharp thing and it is not allowed in some places but I don't think a steel wallet are designed to be like that because maybe the designers of it realized that issue already.

Thanks for giving me an idea. Now I will check the floors and walls to see if there is a hidden wallet , just kidding but odd locations like that are no doubt more unpredictable than if we place our wallets in a vault and other common locations. There is also an element of surprise like the ones I watch on a TV where they saw lots of money and a land title when their house are about to get destroyed by an auction unit.

Steelwallet are not affected by X-ray machines in the airport ,it is an electronic device , it's like
a small PC,  the security personnel can not start dismantling your PC or laptop during inspection which is not done or normal.

Steelwallet is more of a backup tool offline , which is used to store your recovery words, steelwallet preserve your seed from fire,water, electric shock e.t.c. Aside from the steelwallet you have to get another means of backup for your seed

 

No it won't be affected. X-Rays cannot read digital data. That is not how it works.

The exposure time is too low for the ionizing radiation to do any significant damage. Although theoretically not out of the question. The longer the exposure the higher the chance of significant damage. Especially to sensitive components (like rolls of film).

People usually don't carry their metal seed words on every travel they make, this should be only done if you are moving away to a different country, or if they plan to do some coin and seed words management.
Any stainless steel will likely be detected by airport scanners, but there are some ways of mitigating this and one of them are faraday bags with your steelwallet placed inside.
There are even faraday wallets, but there is a risk with this method, so I would propose making your own DIY backups, or using temporary paper or plastic backup.
I was even thinking of using old G-shock (or other) wristwatches that have large databank functionality with passwords, that can be great stealth way for passing borders easily.

It's not courageous to carry your recovery phrase written on goal plaques with you, this should be left at your home, you usually have your wallet encrypted with a password in an application such as bluewallet, this already makes it more than sufficiently secure against any interception, even let them take your cell phone or take your HW, but I would avoid even taking the HW to go through an airport.

And if you need those coins? 


I think you're focussing too much on that seed being the only one and that if it's gone all your coins are gone.

I always said that if you have a way of life that is risky for your property, (you rent, you travel a lot, you're a nomad) you for sure would need at least two backup locations, not just because you lose one but the moment you lose it you must have a way to as soon a possible move those funds to a new one.

Let's assume you're on vacation, you get a call that you're house was break-in, and that thief ransacked everything the one hour till the police found out, what are you going to do? You don't know if your seed was compromised, you don't know if it's secure, but even so, you would have no way of acting! With a card it's simple, you call a number and you get it locked, with your coins you pray for 7 days that the cold wallet is intact and not stolen when you finally get back!

In any case, wandering around with a seed phrase in your pocket doesn't look like a smart step, because at any stage of the move you can lose or be robbed (luggage), which increases the unnecessary risks of losing the phrase.

Offhand solution: divide the seed phrase into several parts (and encrypt) and leave it in a safe deposit box with relatives or friends leading a sedentary lifestyle.

I repeat, carrying a seed phrase with you is fraught with loss. Sooner or later.

The laptop example is an example to demonstrate a possible solution to that problem. I agree with this that it is better to hide the phrase in those (cheap) things that are unattractive to thieves.

But any backpack / luggage is always a potential target for thieves, no matter what it contains. No matter how carefully you try to hide the seed phrase in your luggage, it will be found or thrown away. Can be found by both criminals and law enforcement officials, such as the customs service.

Off the top of my head: encrypt seed phrase and apply them to yourself as a tattoo. No one can steal (unless scalped) and is always with you.

The way you can go about it is to plant at least one decoy word within the steel plate that is NOT part of the seed phrase but one that you've memorized as being swapped out with the real word, which is the one you remember.

It's easy to remember 2 words vs 12 or 24. However, if you have the mental fortitude, you can create a memory castle and remember the entire seed phrase. Similar to how oral traditions have repeated biblical stories for hundreds of years before they were eventually written down

People’s circumstances are unique, so even if it is not the best idea to travel with a piece of steel with your seed phrase, maybe the OP is forced to do it, now I will admit that unless there was no other way I would probably avoid the airport if I was trying to travel with such a wallet, since airports have some of the best security around and you do not want to bring any unwanted attention to yourself, so if the OP could use another form of transportation that would be for the best, but if traveling through an airport was a must, I would probably destroy the steel wallet and bring my seed words with me through other means, as the risk of losing that wallet in some way is just too high in such a dynamic environment.

I don't think it would be a smart idea to travel with a piece of steel with your seed phrase: besides the fact that it could raise some suspects in case of a more accurate inspection, you don't really have an immediate way to eventually cancel the seed phrase: let's say an agent take the plate and opens it, he's going to see the phrase and it could take it away with any excuse, and what do you do at that point? Unless you can immediately transfer your funds you are screwed.

There is no such thing!
Airport security doesn't care about the composition of an object but what that object can do!

Here is the list of banned objects in the EU:
https://transport.ec.europa.eu/document/download/ccc90f5a-0010-464e-b90b-23142ea4e2e8_en?filename=info_travellers_hand_luggage.pdf

You can take a stainless steel water bottle with you but you will not be allowed a plastic toy gun or a wooden bat.

A steel wallet won't be an issue when traveling. But you can't carrythe plan with you. You will need to book it with your luggage. Inside the plan, they usually don't allow anything made with steel. In special cases, you have to show them something that isn't secured. But having to book with your luggage is not an issue. Remember, in any case, customs may ask you to open your luggage and check everything. So yes, it's pretty risky to carry when you are travelling abroad. Better use paper to write your seed during travels. 

There are millions who don't have a fixed home, that rent their house or apartment so leaving something precious in a location where the landlord can come at any time and go through your things is just as bad, there are people who leave the months at a time, there are digital nomads and so on!
It's not like everyone is using planes only to go on a two-week trip at the seaside.


But that's actually worse, your laptop for sure will be a target for a thief, a few metal plates for which you only know the exact order can easily be discarded by almost everyone.

Why is everyone fixated on a piece of metal? I would never carry a seed phrase on a piece of metal with me. Are you afraid that a volcano will erupt near you, a worldwide sweat will occur, or an alien will spew its acid onto a steel plate? The metal seed phrase is necessary for local storage, and in order to carry it with you (which I would not do unless absolutely necessary) at airports, can use materials that are less noticeable to detectors. For example, engrave seed phrases on the plastic case of a laptop (or other device) on the inside*. Notice in the x-ray where the plastic casing becomes invisible. It is unlikely that the security service will disassemble your laptop during an inspection. This can be used as a temporary way of transporting seed phrases if a given task arises, as in the case described by OP.

* - Can use steel engraving dies that are preheated over a fire and then applied to the plastic. The plastic will melt and leave a stamp pattern.

Yup, was looking for this.
If you're concerned about detection use something different.
Better than stainless steel use a titanium sheet, 10x10cm 2 mm thick is like 10$, enough to make a solid wallet that will most likely not trigger a beep at the gates.

Also, you might think of keeping the pieces separate, you make yourself a note on the first letter order and then you spread them in your luggage so even if they find them they won't really be able to guess the order, and it will be even harder to get pictures of all of them.
But. this is a bit going overboard.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be risking carrying my steel seed phrase backup around. I don't even think such a thing is for you to bring anywhere you go. For me, that's the kind of backup that you would want to bury or seal on the floor under a tile or on the wall. If you want to keep your seed phrase with you anywhere you go, perhaps a small piece of paper would do.

Anything steel will attract attention in airports. It will be detected. Even my small scissor was confiscated once. Even my coins were detected and I was asked by the security staff to confirm if those are indeed coins.

Stainless steel has low magnetic permeability, which makes it difficult to detect its details. Therefore, when you are traveling, it is better for your physical storage to be made of that material. Also, using a steel container will make the possibility of identifying seeds almost impossible, but the problem is if the authorities decide to detect the existing metals.The officer may want to see the wallet seed, so always use a strong passphrase wallet seed and store it in a separate place.

But if it's the case that you need to move and you absolutely need to carry your seedphrase, is it possible to just put it somewhere in your person, you can just put it in a dog tag and then wear it on a necklace and then just walk right through the metal detector, most of the time, when I do this when I go to a bus terminal I just go past it without a hitch. I do agree with just storing it somewhere though but in the absolute case that it's not an option, would my solution be applicable. And now that I think about it, isn't aluminum foil a good way to cover your belongings so they won't show in the x-ray? I think I've heard it somewhere that it can block it out somehow.

As far as I know as long as it can not be used
as a weapon and you make sure to have it undergo
their security, there is no reason for them to prey
your ‘secrets’ open. If it is not suspicious nor dangerous
which it isn‘t then you should be good to go.

I think your concern is valid because you'll never know if the staff that is checking the scanner are already in crypto and they've got an idea on what it is. Typically just 12-24 words that are engraved to that steelwallet will already be catchy to the personnel. I wouldn't bring that if I were you but if you want to still bring your seed, I'd write it down on a hard cardboard, notebook or anything that won't get noticed on that as if it's just notes that I am studying on. While the steel plate, I'd leave that in my house and so I've got both backups.

Most likely the airport personnel would have no idea what it is. However if they are familiar with crypto and they see a steel wallet with 12 worded inside it wouldn’t be too hard for them to take out their phone and snap a photo and go on a lunch break right after.

My advice is don’t travel like this. Just leave it at home and write it down on a piece of paper and take that with you. If you lose the paper you still have the steel wallet at home.

1. Put your seedphrase into hex format 2. Use a hidden wallet.
So even if someone took a picture of all your words it would be useless to them.

Of course if they are already stamped you cannot do 1. but you can still do 2.
If you only have a standard wallet you would need to create a hidden wallet then transfer funds,
but leave a small amount in the standard wallet. Your seedphrase will be the same.

There's no way to see the phrase with x-ray inside your bag. All they'll see is a metal object, round or flat, depending on what type of a seed storage device you have. The problem is that they might think a steel container is some kind of a weapon.



Something like this in your bag looks a bit like a small explosive device (IED), but they won't take it from you (most likely) just ask you to show it and unscrew the cover. They won't see each individual seed, but if you're scared about exposing yourself as a bitcoiner, better travel with a paper wallet.

X-ray scanners at airports can see through a bunch of stuff - they can penetrate through a few centimeters of steel no problem, and their resolution is crazy too - they can make out little threads just 0.1 mm thick.  But the real magic is in the software behind it all.  It processes the scans and makes a color picture instead of just a regular black and white X-ray scans.

This helps the person watching the monitor identify different materials and objects inside people's bags. But they are not designed to decipher inscriptions engraved on metal plates. Therefore, there is no danger that someone will steal your coins that way.

However, while X-ray scanners might not be the biggest concern, carrying your seed phrase in your luggage remains a risky strategy.  Airport security can rifle through checked bags, potentially exposing your sensitive wallet information to prying eyes or surveillance cameras.  And with airlines' unreliable luggage tracking systems, lost bags or misdelivered suitcases could hand your precious seed phrase over to a complete stranger.  There are simply too many potential vulnerabilities to consider and  when securing your crypto assets, limiting access points by keeping your seed phrase far from airports and transit hubs proves the safest bet.

---

This is not something you should bet on when it comes to the security of your crypto assets.

I don't know why you carry a steel wallet with you while moving from one place to another or while traveling. It is better not to take it with you and keep it at home or another safe place.

However, if you are afraid that the x-rays will be able to read the modified seed phrase on the metal, you can place the steel wallet inside a metal cover so that the x-rays will not be able to penetrate it and read the engraved inscriptions. I think that way you will be safer.

Perhaps our dear OP has a thing for hiding things in plain sight, because I don't see why there should be need to carry about a steel wallet, knowing fully well that it can get lost in a frenzy of unplanned events.

Still, I don't think it should be a problem even if it is carried about, because I know seed phrases could just be plain words that may not mean anything to someone who knows nothing about it, only if of course one makes it obvious.

From what I understand, X-ray are very good in detecting metallic objects so the metallic seed phrase will be detected by the X-ray machine and draw the attention of the inspection officers. But If you're worried about your seed phrase being compromised during airport checks, then you should use a cryptosteel capsule or other similar products that can allow you disassemble the words during transit and re-assemble it on arrival.

A video of Cryptosteel unboxing, assembling and disassembling.

Steelwallets are not designed to carry this around different countries and airport security. Steelwallets is necessary for long-term storage of the seed phrase and storage in a safe place. A phrase, be it on paper or on a piece of metal, is not something you should take with you to travel. Seed phrase should be difficult for others to find, but it should be easy to find in your pocket or backpack.

For your travels, a hardware wallet is better suited, which will be “lost” among other devices and from which it is impossible to extract a seed phrase, but leaves you the opportunity to access crypto wallets.

Thanks for the clarification.........
Given the high value of Bitcoin, I think it could be possible that some security personel figure out a way to take a pic of your seed phrase.....would just need 1 person on the scanner to look for the metal object  and the other person to maybe wear a hidden body cam or so to take a pic while checking it and holding it......  would be a nice earner and very hard to prove....

Depends on the security check.

If it's just a hand-carried devices, you might not face any problem since steel wallet using stainless steel or aluminum materials has a bad magnetic conductor especially if the size is small.

But when it comes to X-ray, there's a chance they could know all of your seed phrases because it able to see into the inside even if you have cover it.

My advise is don't carry your steelwallets, leave it somewhere hidden and create a new backup (if you want) when you've arrived on other country.


https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/120493/can-punched-in-seed-phrase-on-steel-plate-be-read-by-airport-security-x-ray

You can probably hide them using some kind of rubber to cover the metal that's got your seed phrase engraved into, that way, it just looks like a piece of metal. X-rays don't affect them I think, if you're worried that they might see through the inscriptions, you're safe because the only way that they'll see that seed phrase is if they use an amount of radiation on their X-ray that's enough to lethally dose you with radiation including the people around the machine. If you're really worried, you can probably ditch it for a much convenient to you like a piece of paper, that way you can wear that piece of paper somewhere within your person and not worry about X-rays since you're going through a metal detector.

Hi Bobby,
the steelwallet is a simple metal plate with the phrase seed engraved on it, It does not have any electronic components.

My doubt arises as to whether the x-ray scanner can read the phrase seed, or whether an agent suspicious of the strange object could check it and read the words (even worse if he were to photograph it)

It depends:

Normally the steel wallet will not be affected by the X-ray machines, it is an electronic storage device or a a kind of mini PC....

BUT : If you are unlucky and seen in the company of a suspected Terrorist or Kiddiefiddler who you met maybe on the flight and had a friendly conversation with.....THEN maybe the airport security will ask you to provide access to your steel wallet, just to make sure there are no naughty pics on it or terror plans.......

In some countries you can decline to provide the password but then will get locked up until you change your mind... all up to you

Hi everyone,

I recently started using a steelwallet for securing my Bitcoin seed phrase, appreciating its durability and protection against physical damage. However, a concern crossed my mind that I'd like to discuss with the community.
Is there a chance that my precious seed phrase might get a bit too much unwanted attention?

I'm not overly paranoid or anything, but the thought of my seed phrase playing peekaboo with security personnel during a manual check doesn't sit right with me. Do those X-ray machines get nosy enough to pry into my steelwallet's secrets, or am I just overthinking this?

Has anyone here had to travel with their steelwallet? How did you play it cool? I'm all ears for tips, especially if there are any ninja moves for keeping the seed phrase under wraps in such situations.
Are there specific types of steelwallets designed to mitigate this risk, perhaps by obscuring the seed phrase in a way that's not immediately visible?

Cheers for any thoughts or shared wisdom on this!