Topic: Stock Trading with Joe - Paying up to 47% (Read 2049 times)

Look, he finally trolled on his main ID after trolling on the one he made up...credible:


How much money do I have?


The existence of insurance doesn't change anything since the point was that trusting institutions is not any safer merely because they are institutions. If the govt is paying out on bank losses with taxpayer dollars, it's a net loss of $3 to the taxpayer for every $1 they pay out in insurance at a bear minimum.

You are sooo concerned with what other people do when it's absolutely none of your business - it's like you are worried that if they invest with me and make money they won't be there for you to scam with your fake cloud mining contracts.


Is moneypot.com a registered and licensed gambling site? No, and it's probably rigged if you're slinging it because you're a confirmed thief.

Though in reality this is not even relevant since this is a pure bitcoin transaction, and bitcoins are not currency (legal tender) or a security...but I'm sure you knew that. Bitcoin was also formed to get away from over-regulation and govt intrusiveness, not to embrace it. The SEC and Finra exist to stifle competition and limit participation in finance under the pretense of "protecting" people.

Now why don't you explain to us why a person with multiple IDs on a bitcoin forum, like you, who uses them to scam other users, believes anything he says is relevant?

Scammers don't get to ask questions and nobody cares about your comments.

How can people keep you on the hook for paying if your identity is a secret? You are also trying to borrow more money than you have, meaning if you take on losses there is no way you can pay them back.

Also, why are you comparing yourself to a money market account at a bank? Not even remotely close. A money market account is insured up to $250k. If a bank completely collapses, it might take up to a few years to get your cash but you will receive it. You lose their money, its gone forever.

I'm also wondering if you passed the series 65, seeing as you are trying to pass yourself off as an investment advisor.

BTW Shoetrees, do us a favor and post on your primary account you silly little troll.

Is that you, AcoinL.L.C aka Lutpin aka Quickseller?

Considering that I never actually stated my account value, your assessment of my risk management is not possible.

I can tell from talking to you that you really do not understand the intricacies of trading derivatives, but are doing your best to investopedia your way into a discussion that you are ill-equipped to have.

I do in fact lose if I mess up with BTC contributed to this opportunity because I would still be liable to repay the original investor as agreed. Whether I win big or lose, I'll be on the hook to pay the fixed amount...so you are concerning yourself with things you both do not understand and things that are not relevant to the arrangement between the investor and this opportunity.

Does a bank tell you specifically what it does with the money you keep in a "money market" account or even a checking account? They may provide some vague overview, but they are only required to keep 10% of your deposit on hand as cash. Where do you think that other 90% is going? Did you sleep through 2008-2009?

I am doing this offer MY way. If you don't like it, do not participate. It's as simple as that.


No, that is the maximum that I would accept and that would be documented here in this thread so I couldn't accept 5,000 and then say I only have 500 so far. The minimum individual contribution is 5 BTC, which is high enough to prevent me from having to track hundreds of desposits while being low enough to make the opportunity available to more people.


Uhh, no sir. Once again you reveal that you don't actually know what you're talking about but did some googling and suddenly believe yourself to be an expert on investing.

I stated that 20% is the limit of a single position, not the minimum or even the average positional value.

There is no such thing as "normal" position sizes. The individual investor and trader decides what to risk within their level of tolerance and within their trading strategy.

I did not state my total account value and so therefore you are making baseless assumptions out of ignorance. Like I said, 20% is the limit not the norm...and I did explain that recent trade was an outlier.


Wow, you are really dense aren't you? You are inventing a lot of nonsense that has nothing to do with anything. I do not want or need any BTC. I have plenty of my own money, but I am a capitalist and entrepreneur. If I can multiply my account while providing value to others, why not?

It's really that simple.

My algorithm helps me choose entry and exit points. The final decision is mine; it does not automatically buy or sell anything.  For a guy who thinks he's investing in "binary options", you sure have a lot to say about a topic you know very little about.


Uhh...no. Now you're getting stupid and to the point of being little more than a petulant troll. Your simplistic calculation of 6 x 35 does not include losses, drawdown, taxes, fees, commissions and fixed expenses like the data feeds I have to pay for. It also does not factor in the value of my time - and for someone like you, I don't expect you to value time but I do and I value it highly.

I don't know where you got the idea that I was going to stop trading my own money and ONLY trade money I get from BTC deposits. Did I say that? Show me where.

The gains and losses I realize with my own money is IRRELEVANT to the arrangement being offered here, because here the offer is a guaranteed percentage repaid over a fixed period of time. CERTAINTY COSTS MONEY.

So it is obvious that I would limit the money I take to what I can collateralize on my own just as a stock brokerage follows similar limitations on how much of a stock can be bought on margin.

I've shown quite clearly that I know what I'm talking about. You've shown nothing other than faux skepticism...as in you are attempting to fabricate claims about my integrity with no logical or sound basis.


Uh, no. This makes zero sense. What does not bode well is for you to keep talking, as you're going to dig yourself in so deep that the only way out is if some unicorn comes by and throws a rope down to you.


That's because, as you've demonstrated in this post, you are terrible at math and seem to be a product of the US public school system.


*FACEPALM*

No binary options don't exist. They are claimed to exist, which is why people who know nothing about actual investing or trading think they're a thing.

I'm glad you looked up butterfly spread on google - good job, kid. Now you know a definition but you still do not understand them.


Then you must be feeling the love because you've done a good job of being wrong.

In short: if you are not comfortable with the terms as outlined in my original post, this is not for you.

Major concern:

Your risk parameters don't seem to exist, or a very lax at that. It seems that you're just asking to gamble with other people's money, and make what you're currently making off that. But if you lose their BTC, then you don't lose. So you mentioned you'll cover other people's BTC with your own funds - have you any proof these funds exist? If so, provide them. And if you do - why not use a PAMM Account?

---

Concerns with relation to the numbers:

So, you're asking for up to 1,500 BTC (=~US$675,000) saying you will repay US$857,250 (assuming 1=US$450).

You say you risk around 20% of your principal on each position (side note: this is insane for any real trader, especially if you're inter and not intra as you say. Normal position sizes are 0.2-1%, and perhaps if you're feeling lucky up to 5%). And you give a positional value of $32,000 for one trade. So your total capital is $160,000 - that's what the maths says, based off of your figures.

But just the other day you say you got $182,000, around 2/7 of what you want. So now have $342,000, about 50% of what you originally wanted. On this VXX position: You would have had 15 minutes to open this position on that day, to say your algorithm 'nailed' it is well...

Returning to your normal trades, you gave a figure of $35k of a recent normal position and say you do about 6 trades a month, i.e. c.$210,000/mo.

(This would mean after three months you would have almost all of your requested amount, and not have anything to repay. That after such a short time you would have the money anyway either shows you've not been doing this for long: bad news; or your figures are not real: bad news.)

Even if we add just one prior month to what, according to you own figures, you would have on hand $552k. Now, I'm happy for you to say that's too much - but by doing so you would have to change some of the figures you've already given. And if you're fiddling figures from the off, it does not bode well.

Further side note: You mentioned the 10% of profits you keep would be about 100% of what you currently make. I can't even being to make those figures work with any of the numbers you've given.

Also, binary options do exist - they are an exotic option. I am referring to the world outside of the US. But also: Butterfly and iron condor are limited risk neutral trading strategies, not an instrument.

In short: from where I'm sitting your numbers do not add up. I am happy for you to send me your trading statements in order to prove me wrong, I would love to be wrong I assure you.

I can answer anything about what I do as far as trading goes, although I'm not going to reveal my proprietary strategies that my algo uses to find entry/exit signals.


I have a data subscription to Livevol that I pay a lot of money for each month and that feeds my algo. I am obviously screening the market for tickers of interest and not processing all market data in its entirety, so the program can only discover opportunities in the list of stocks/etfs/etns that I monitor.

I do options strategies, primarily on SPX (S&P500 Index), SPY (S&P500 ETF), SVXY (Short VIX) and VXX (S&P VIX Short Term Futures ETN). I avoid day trading and usually do not enter and exit trades more than 2 times within a week. I'd say I average about 6 trades per month.

Most recent trades:

04/07/2016 - VXX @ $19.15
Bought 1000 May 20 $16 Put @ $0.32 (avg) = $32K positional value

04/19/2016 - VXX @ $15.66
Sold 1000 May 20 $16 Put @ $2.14 (avg) = $214,000 proceeds

$214,000 - $32,000 = $182,000 profit

The first trade is not a typical trade; this is an outlier. On April 7th VXX abnormally shot up to $19 and my algo nailed it, which is why I took the otherwise risky position knowing that the probability of SPX falling and VXX staying at or rising above $19 was very low.

Most recent position:
05/11/2016 - VXX @ $14.78
Sold 1000 May 20 $15 Put @ $0.66 (avg) = $66,000 credit
Bought 1000 June 17 $13 Put @ $0.31 = $31,000 debit
Risk = $165,000

Short side expired last friday OTM (out of the money) = ($66,000 - $31,000) = $35,000 profit
Long side still open, last bid quote was 0.17 for that option; expecting VXX to come down tomorrow (monday). Rather than closing the $13 strike put position I may sell more earlier dated puts against it on a weekly basis, for example May 27 $14.50 strike if VXX slides down tomorrow or this week.

Other than that, I currently have no positions in SPX/SPY at this time. Market has been moving sideways in a relatively narrow channel so VXX has been flat. My outlook on SPX (which drives VIX and in turn VXX) is bearish, but expecting a lot of govt interference to prop it up at least until after the elections in November.


That was mostly addressed in my original post. I am not just one thing. An effective trader makes use of all tools available and that's what I try to do. My algo signal system is based on tech analysis, but it's not the only deciding factor. I read the market and rely on my own instincts and intuition as well.


Stock options as well as underlying stock in some cases. Binary options do not exist. That which is often promoted as "binary option" is actually a spread position, usually known as a "butterfly spread" or with wider ranging ones "iron condor spread".


I have no problem answering specific questions, but please understand that I'm trying to keep the information in this thread as concise as possible. Nobody really wants to wade through pages of trading theory.


Well, I did answer them. If you have any more let me know and I'll answer as best I can.

You have only mentioned the US stock market, this is very vague.

Do you primarily trade indices - if so, which ones. Or individual stocks, if so which sector? Or are you more à la carte - if so, provide some examples of recent positions. I will say now, providing examples of past positions does not, and never will, compromise a trader. By definition if the position is in the past, the opportunity to make money is gone and thus cannot affect a trader.

Are you a pure trader, use technical indicators, or algorithms?

Finally: what derivative instruments? Futures, options (European, American, Asian?), binary options - what?

You mentioned you will not provide this since you think you would be providing a prospectus. There is a difference between providing a prospectus and answering the very basic questions above.

Perhaps you will reciprocate the good faith of people here asking questions with the good action of answering them.

Those who make comments like this are saying more about themselves than they are about the one they are passively-aggressively accusing of being not trustworthy.

Meanwhile, people here seem to graciously buy into ponzi scams masquerading as "cloud mining" or "mining contracts" that always go bust. If my intention was nefarious, wouldn't it make more sense for me to do something like that so people just buy in without much explanation?

Plenty of investors are gamed out of millions by so-called legitimate banks, brokerages and other financial institutions. People are discovering that their pension funds, i.e. their retirements, that were managed by so-called "professional traders" have lost upwards of 60% of their value...so now people in their 60s nearing retirement have no money to live on. They put their trust in an institution and got burned...and while there are no shortage of bitcoin scammers, there are actually legitimate people with real opportunities and I am one of those.

I trade derivatives on the US Stock market as my day job. I am offering roughly 90% of my normal earnings as repayment for the opportunity being offered here, which is how I can pay the kind of returns I am paying. Why? Because once I get started and people see that this is probably the only safe investing opportunity on this board, the 10% I keep as profit will be about as much as the 100% I currently earn with my own funds.

Now you or anyone else are welcome to go try investing for yourself and potentially earn better returns in a shorter period of time...but be warned, if you don't know what you are doing you can get burned fast when it comes to derivatives just as you can win a lot.

Give me 100 BTC, there is a statistical chance I'll give some of it back! I call it 'The Maybe trading Equity'

I would have provided this information as a prospectus if this was an offer to buy shares without a guaranteed return. This offer is more like buying a bond than it is buying shares of stock - regardless of my fund's market performance, the agreement here would take precedence to be repaid.

What I will do is use the reserved space to list anyone who participates by how much so anyone can see for themselves if there are any problems, and verify that I pay as agreed. I will also share list the deposit and repayment addresses used so that anyone can see that the transactions actually happened by checking on blockchain.

Can we have a report about your past performance managing your fund on US stock Market (Nyse ?) ?

Even if past performance is not future performance, this can give information on how you do !

It there any third party which can entrust you toward investors ?

*** Reserved Space ***

Who are you?

My name is Joe, and I am both an entrepreneur and investor currently residing in New York. I earn my personal income via the stock market as well as businesses that I own.

What is the investing opportunity?

I wanted to find a better, smarter way of investing rather than just hoping stock reports were accurate, so I created an algo signal system by myself using my own ideas about trading that have proven to work as I implemented them manually. The opportunity to the investor is to pool their BTC together with mine to earn a high passive return in a relatively short period of time.

Is this risky or safe?

It's a moderate risk, high reward investment. More details on potential risks are outlined below.

How does it work?

My algo trading system scans a defined set of equities and derivatives for potential trades, but it does not buy or sell automatically. I review the findings and manually decide whether or not to open a position based on my reading of the market's current condition.

How can I invest?

To keep things simple for you and for me, I am offering investors the option to buy slots in fixed return investments of various term lengths. The list below shows what is currently being offered:

Term / Interest / Max Slots / Cost per Slot
-------------------------------------------------
03 mo / 11% / 100 / 5 BTC
06 mo / 23% / 100 / 5 BTC
12 mo / 47% / 100 / 5 BTC

Each slot purchased will result in one lump sump of principle + interest at the end of the term you choose. You can buy as many slots as you want, or mix and match.

All investments are subject to early repayment at my discretion, meaning that I may repay you the full amount before the term is completed.

Investment Details

Technical:

• Working Currency = USD
• ROI calculated on USD Cost Basis value NOT BTC
• Term length is 3-12 months
• No early withdrawal
• Lump sum repayment of interest+principle at end of term

Start of Term:
The start of the investment term will be the first business day following the confirmation of bitcoins received. I will respond to you privately with the conversion rate of BTC to USD for your deposit, because all trades occur in USD. This same conversion rate will be used when determining how many BTC you are repaid.

Calculation of Return on Investment Principle:

(Term Interest Rate * USD Cost Basis) + USD Cost Basis = Repayment Amount

Example:

For 1 investment slot at on 6 month term BTC basis of $450:

Initial Investment Calculation:
5 BTC * $450 = $2,250 USD Cost Basis

Repayment Calculation:
(23% * $2,250) + $2,250 = $2,767.50

Profit: $517.50

Slot Availability:
I cannot accept more investment than the slots presented because I am using my own bitcoins to cover any potential losses. This way I can ensure that investors are paid as agreed.

*** Early withdrawals will not be available. You must commit the full term length to participate. ***

Repayment:
Upon maturity, you will be repaid the equivalent in bitcoins according to the calculation above at the repayment address you provide. The payment is made in one lump sum and will include your principle + interest. Just to reiterate - the ROI is NOT calculated based on the BTC you deposit, it is calculated based on the USD value of the BTC at the time of your deposit.

Primary Risks

In terms of investing, risk refers to the maximum amount that you stand to lose in a worst-case scenario. My investments are always risk-managed and well-defined, which means that it is not possible for any single trade to simply take you from 100% to 0%. Most trades risk up to 20% in order to deliver the type of returns being offered.

I am also covering the investments with my own BTC reserves, but even so, this is not a zero-risk investment. Here are some risks to consider...

Bitcoin Price Rise:
Because the deposit will be converted to and traded in USD, people who participate will have their cost basis set at the current spot price for bitcoins at the time of their deposit. If the price of BTC goes up during the term of this investment, you'd miss out on potential gains that could exceed the return you'll be getting from this investment. On the flipside, you are protected if the BTC price drops, and in fact, you'll amplify your gains as you'll end up with a lot more bitcoins at the end of the term should the price of BTC drop during the term.

Catastrophic Stock Market Event:
What happened in 2008-2009 can certainly happen again, and there's no way of knowing when the market may crash. If it does, you may only receive your principle as repayment (i.e. break even).

Unforeseen Risks:
Usually it's the things we don't think of that screw us, which is why I want to keep this arrangement as simple and as straight-forward as possible. I do not feel like there are any risks that I am not considering.


Common Concerns

- How do I know you won't take my money and run?

You don't, but I've been around since the early days of bitcoin and I have no intention of leaving. I've been a registered member of this forum since 2011 and I have no desire to bad-rep my only account on here.

- Will you share all kinds of personal info with me about you?

No, I will not, because if I did that then you'd have to provide me with the same information about yourself. Once we go down that road, we'd have to do this whole thing a lot more formally to be compliant with any relevant investing regulations. This would exclude most people on here from participation.

- What assurance do I have that you will pay as agreed?

This is a mutually beneficial arrangement for all involved. If I don't follow the agreement, I'll blow my credibility and give up a tremendous opportunity. That is why I am limiting deposits to that which I have the ability to cover with my own funds.

- Most bitcoin "opportunities" are ponzi scams. Yours is too.

Well, the first part of that is entirely true...but the second part is not.

All deposits will be invested legitimately in the US stock market. I've been relying on this for my own personal income for over a year now so there is no change to my routine. This is what I do "full time"...but regardless of what I say, this goes back to the trust thing.

- Is 3 months the shortest term?

Yes. I thought about offering shorter terms but it would require me to take irresponsibly risky positions that do not meet my basic risk management criteria. Investing is more about long term growth rather than short spurts of profit, so I recommend considering longer terms. They also pay better.

Any other questions, please feel free to ask, either by replying to this thread or by contacting me on here privately. I usually respond within 24 hours.