Topic: Stop buying from automated producers / businesses, it's making you poor (Read 360 times)

The development of the times will continue to happen, when in the past people relied on farmers in the fields who used hoes but now we almost rarely find farmers who hoe and have switched to tractors, of course from an economic point of view it is more effective with tractors and in my opinion as long as it is for productive activities it is a big thing better.

I understand that technology and specially automated tech, is something that feels wrong for so many people. However, you need to realize that this is the next step towards capitalism and how it will rule out. Why do you think the world is in so much financial trouble right now when we have so many people?

We are at our peak population, we have enough people to produce anything we want, we could literally produce enough lambos for everyone, we have the resources for that and the people for that, or tesla for everyone and solar panels to cover all the energy needs we would ever have. These are all there, why not have it? Because that won't be profitable for the elite, that is the only reason.

I was an impulsive buyer earlier - used to waste a lot of money. But after COVID I stopped going to the market and saved a lot of money. That is how I stopped buying unnecessary stuff. I think its not the article which gives you awareness it's your inner self which makes you more wise.

There are places that does promotions and discounts or do get buy 2 get 1 type of situations in that case. Plus, humanity will grow towards better and better technology one way or another, there is no way of stopping it. A company is only entitled on making money, there is no responsibility to get as many workers as possible, that would be ideal and lovely but if they do not need to then they won't do it.

Places like logistics are the most worked on for example, because there are so many people working in warehouses of amazon and similar places, and they are paying salaries the most, and I believe that it will become as less worker oriented as possible since they are spending so much money on RD for it.

I think your name should be gweb1816. The nonsense you are talking was already said 200 years ago and time has shown that it was bullshit. They had their point of logic if we look at it from a historical point of view but they were of an amazing narrow mindedness, the same that you have 200 years later.

Precisely what has increased global wealth is the use of machines and automatic processes, which has increased productivity exponentially.

Now more and more jobs are replaced with machines or robots, I work in a ceramic and granite production company and since the last 10 years the company has done efficiency because a lot of work is replaced with machines from raw material settings to the packing process, all of them are now carried out, and since At that time more than 5000 people lost their jobs.

If only that was done like that. If you have 10 dollars per burger, and you spend 5 bucks of it on salaries, then you will be looking ways to drop that. Now imagine you took out a loan and bought some machines now you have just very few people, so now you spend 1.5 dollars on the salaries and 1.5 dollars on the loan, total of 3 dollars goes to this instead of 5 and do they drop the price? No, they still sell it for 10, or at best 9. So not only people lose their jobs but the price is the same as well.

Due to inflation it even goes higher as well, which means that at certain point many people will be unemployed and the prices will be the same or more.

The simplicity and the rapid availability of industrial made cheap products are what made the hand made things disappear. The products are not only easy to find in every market but they are also very convenient and todays generation is much focused on that. Handmade products are hard to find for example:
In London if you want to buy cards you can buy 4 for 1£ , factory made and looks amazing as well whereas in handmade shops they cost around 2£ and looks wonderful. Especially kids and people of middle class family would not give that much thought into it and go for the shiny ones and be done with it.
'It's the era of industrialization'- there are many things being done in some countries like Made in India campaign as well, hilighting the local products. More countries should do that for sure!

No one cares about the future, people live for a second without long-term plans.
While I agree with you on this, do you agree with me that people shouldn't buy Nestle products? Nestle hate is around there for years, the society knows that Nestle has done and is doing but I can't find people not supporting this.

All these top Hollywood stars, Instagram influencers and Tiktokers probably use Kerastase, Redken, Pureology hair products and in-salon treatments to have silky smooth hair. Probably they use La Roche-Posay & Cerave skincare products to have young and smooth skin without wrinkles. Oh, Yves Saint Laurent smells so good on Keanu Reeves too.

All these brands are owned by L'oreal and L'oreal itself is owned by the most hated but still somehow the most supported company - Nestle.

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So, the product of companies that work with hired workforce, will always cost more than the companies that have integrated automation. People will always buy the cheap ones because society is poor and inflation is always increasing, people always try to save money to buy a house, buying cheap products is part of this plan.

It feels like you have a poor grasp of economics and how automation has lifted many people out of poverty in all sorts of ways. No job is safe and society will eventually need a restructuring in order to assure that everyone has a basic standard of living (such as a universal income). However it is foolish to fear automation and doing so only means you will fail to adapt, which people have been doing since the beginning of time. Take farming for example, it used to take many people many days to prepare a field for planting or perform other actions on it, however one farmer can now sit in a tractor that has a programmed route. That frees up all the other workers to do different jobs or other leisure pursuits. It's sad that people have been so brainwashed that they think that working is the only way, when it would be better to live in a world where we can choose to work or spend our time on other things.

This is really not true.  It's not making us poor.  Sure it might be hurting some people and their jobs and it's certainly disrupting some business practices, but this is not going to stop.  Technology will forever continue to grow and trying to stop it from doing so is a futile effort that you will not win.  While this can hurt some, it also helps many others.  This type of technology can also help make things cheaper for consumers, so there are many positives as well.

Some of their reasons for encouraging full automation can properly be handled by humans and other living things with the right abilities  put together the right way. Though it's OK for humans to use technology/tools to aid their works, they should not be too complicated to make and should only be alternatives to things humans and other creatures can't do well & better. Speed is also important... it's important to teach people to solve problems faster without making too many mistakes... This works well for routine jobs which machines are typically programmed to do well and better.

By the way, if I'm asked to choose between coffee made by qualified human coffee maker or coffee made by machine, from thesame coffee beans and healthy ingredients, I will choose coffee made by human. There is something special about using things made by nature or living things in natural ways.

People with this mentality are just lazy in general. All they have to offer the world is being told to do something basic and then expecting so much value (money) from it.

Thank you to people who actually create value through automated producers / businesses.

Ok, let's look at the other side of the coin.....

"The average labor cost percentage should typically be in the range of 20% to 35% of a company's gross sales. However, there are variations, depending on your field. It's not uncommon for restaurants and other service businesses to have a labor cost percentage of up to 50%." - https://www.hourly.io/post/how-is-labor-cost-calculated

Now, if almost 1/4 of your total cost can be slashed from your company expenses.... you would be able to reduce the price of your goods, which means that the consumers will also benefit from the reduced price. (remember .....labor cost goes up every year)

We cannot have our bread buttered on both ends.... Cheap prices for goods & Work for everyone. (Machines do not Strike over low wages) 

Yeah, the industrial revolution was a disaster for the human civilization. We should go back to the good old days of feudalism and slavery, when everything was manufactured by hand and there were no stupid machines, robots and AI.
Technical progress has pros and cons, I think that the pros are WAY MORE than the cons. Emphasizing the cons without acknowledging the pros is simply stupid.
Mass production is way cheaper than hand made production(and the quality can be the same or even better).Buying cheaper goods actually makes you rich, not poor. The people, who lose their jobs due to the mass automation will have to change their qualification and find another job. The market economy is ruthless. Efficiency is ruthless. If you are not efficient, the market will kick you out. Whining about this is pointless.

Huh? All of them only shows that we are advancing. We shouldn't deny it that we are also liking them as it makes our lives more easier and happier. Maybe you will get poor if you will buy every latest technology that will came out of the market but as long as you know how to save your money and learn how to spend it wisely, all of those names mentioned above cant affect your wealth negatively.

Many businesses are now automated but not totally. There are still a demand for workers (humans) because there are some task that only humans can operate not by robots or machines. If a company uses more machines, they can save a lot and this could also mean that their products will now cost cheaper but I like your initiative about supporting local, handmade products.

Elon Musk has a robot called optimus which could someday replace human workers in factories.


I'm not certain if reducing automation could help balance global economies.

Before automation we had skilled labor. Workers with specialized skills who carried out tasks which were automated away. I think specialized labor would need to make a comeback for a smooth transition from automation and industrialization.

In the united states interest in fields like engineering are at all time lows. Enough so that franchises like radio shack have gone bankrupt. It could take a long time for people to develop the skills necessary to produce things. America even lacks expertise with basic fundamentals such as large scale construction involving concrete. We lack the infrastructure and expertise to build things like the hoover dam. Without outsourcing many of the components to japan and abroad.

America was once criticized for having roughly 25% of all the lawyers in the entire world. Bill Gates and others have tried over the years to rekinkle interest in science and engineering fields. But everyone would prefer being a high paid lawyer. This trend will could complicate things if automation or productivity issues ever arise.

Lookie here, my peeps.  I don't know if what OP is talking about is making us poor or not, but I want you all to take a good look at this photo that I took yesterday in my local supermarket:



In that same grocery store, they've replaced cashiers with these awful self checkout....modules (I don't know what else to call them) that are apparently built for the average 4 foot tall shopper.  That means folks like me have to strain our backs using the goddamn things.  I should have taken a picture of those, but I didn't want to give the impression to the eye in the supermarket sky that I was doing something suspicious by snapping pics of various things in the store.

And by the way, the argument that technology is making people redundant is a really old one.  You would have thought we'd have a 4-hour work day standard by now if all of those predictions from decades ago had come true.

Automation is the sole reason why humanity has advanced with innovation and the only reason why life expectancy has increased for the developed and undeveloped world. Automatic production is the reason why the world turns, and your suggestion is that there's something nefarious behind it? Automation hasn't replaced human jobs and that won't come for a long time until AI is advanced enough to lessen the need for human interaction in production. There'll be a need for human intervention for the foreseeable future.

You sound a bit paranoid or like an environmentalist.

The genie is out and it can't be put back in so might as well make the most of what it grants. Sure you can always buy from the less automated companies but what do you think happens when the highly-automated ones suddenly go bankrupt? Yup the ones you are promoting are just gonna take their place. Business is all about efficiency and profit and for mass-produced products, that means reducing overhead if possible.

I have seen several materials and arguments surrounding this topic, enough to make up my mind about that. In short, there was a huge anti-automation movement since the beginning of industrialization, basically. People were also talking how jobs will disappear and people will be left with nothing. Some jobs did disappear, but you know what happened? Many new jobs appeared because of technological advancements, new demand was created basically out of thin air. Demand not only for programmers, but digital marketing workers, web designers, moderators, SMM workers, and then also content creators on many online platforms. So things do not change for worse with automatization overall. They can hit some more than others, which is why social care must be in place to help those that lose their jobs to adapt. But it can also help out many people to find new jobs that didn't exist before, and be passionate about something like this.
Eventually, I think countries should move to universal basic income on the surplus that's created because maintaining machines is cheaper than paying people to do those jobs. And people should move to jobs which can't be done my machines in an undeniably better way.

Most of us know what is good, but not everyone has the opportunity to afford it! That is why we are turning to cheaper and lower-quality variants! Handmade things have always been expensive, we can conclude that they will be more expensive in the future! If it is 100% natural then it costs 100% more and in some cases more than that!

As others pointed out, the world is changing, and people need to adapt! One way or another... we can make drama, cry around, and curse everyone around, but it's just a waste of time and energy! It's better to think about your position, think about your goals and wishes, and try to get there! Simply adapt to the current situation and make the most of it!

I don't think 100% of humans are used anymore on this earth to work, try to think from safety you will get money if you don't work, factory machines also still need humans to operate not all with robots
but rest assured if humans value art they will buy man-made products not robots so don't worry if robots are in one manufacturing company

That's one way of looking at it. There's no denying that. I believe that jobs are lost because of technologies.

However, on the other hand-- and this is basically to look at the larger picture-- jobs are also created because of technologies. Where there used to be manual laborers, there are now machine operators, technicians, engineers, IT staff, and others. And those machines that replaced human labor are also designed and manufactured partly by humans.

Let us take, for example, a farm. Before, farmers manually tilled the land. With the invention of farming machines, operators take over. But those machines they operate like tractors, harvesters, and others are also produced partly by human labor, and they're moved from one country to another, which also requires human workers, and are then sold by machine stores which have staff and other human workers.

Automatically makes it easy for large companies to make their work easier, because the power of machines will be easier and faster than our human jobs, but with many people already using machines, our human jobs will automatically decrease, of course unemployment will increase, and will be a big loss for us workers, but will be an advantage for the company.

Are you part of the KKK or something? You sound like the next hitler.

F..uck globalization that s what is wrong with the world ...why should i buy clothing from Bangladesh if i have the resources in my country to make my own clothing ?  Chinese dumped steel and all their crap in the EU without paying taxes  and local companies died here do to fact they couldn't compete with cheaters bypassing local regulation ....

Each country should buy from it's own people and if it can't be produced local then import it .

Look at US of A the great globalist 21 trillion USD in debt and now the dirt under their rug it is starting to show ... most americans don't  even have 1000 usd in their bank account and they have lots of debts. Go to America if you want globalization ...see if they let you in...

Most of that stupid oil is used for useless crap : personal cars,packaging,stupid chemicals for plastics and packaging.synthetic textiles,synthetic rubber,drugs,processed foods and so on

That oil is killing people slowly day by day ,it's in the food,in your clothing,in your lungs and so on ...and after you ask yourself why i get sick ?...you kill yourself by the lifestyle you have and want. Oil is killing you.

"Progress" and so called "Logic" is not that good as you think,same as "Emotion" ,they have to be in balance ...if not in balance the system is corrupt.

If i would use only "Logic" to think ,i would just hijack a nuclear silo or plane either from Russia or USA ,bypass the security features  and launch the ICBM or drop the bomb on the other side to start a nuclear war,do to fact people are evil and corrupt.

Logic and progress it's cool isn't it ?

Actually people like you have a bad mentality. You think you can get something out of nothing "oh just hire people instead of automation tools" what a horrible idea.

You are just like the people who feared and still hate globalization.

YOU are the problem.

YOU are destorying my childs future. I spit on these thoughts and ideas because this destroys innovation and creates witch hunts.

@gweb1996 perhaps you should look at it more than just pointing out the limitations of our approach to those supporting products. Honestly, I also feel there are many barriers for everyone to have access to learning, but in a world where we always see change every day and you don't adapt to keep up, you will give up back and forth and back up slower. Partly due to the law of life and scientific knowledge, the tech,... still cannot cover all the people living on this planet, but the reception to progress or recharge not only relies on the creative inventions of the people who came up with us, we also need active support from people like us. Whether it's right or wrong would also be hard to argue with because those things create good intentions for all, but I think it's a personal choice to go and break out of the architecture that we previously had, especially when I was learning or seeing and looking back on how it really benefited my own life and those around me.

I think @stompix already gave a very deep and short insight into what you are asking, if you want to go by what you preach then being on this platform and getting your message across will take some time too. Despite the advancement of robots in companies and organizations, there is still plenty of tasks/jobs/work for people to do.
Note that not every country in the world is that advanced in technology, you can always relocate when you feel you are not getting enough jobs because of robots.

Whether we like it or not, we need them. To a certain extent, it is bad because it takes away human labor and therefore employment. But it is also good at the same time because it provides efficiency to work which translates into better, more affordable, and abundant products and services. If we put both effects on each side of a balance, the positive might have a lot more weight than the negative.

Yeah definitely.
So the first step will be for you to throw your computer out of the window, buy a pigeon from a pigeon breeder, make your own paper from cotton you've bought from a farmer, I won't suggest anything naughty for the pen, and then send us your post via carrier pigeon. You see, for only this you've created a ton of jobs, if 3000 people will be reading this, you would need at least 1000 pigeons, a ton of paper and ink, and then think of us replying! We would need millions of workers.

Or a better idea, let's have all the oil in the world transported by camels. At 100 million barrels a day and considering a round trip of 30 days just imagine how many jobs would be created to take care of 3 billion camels, not even mentioning the wood and carpenters needed for another 1 million replicas of Noah's ark.

We had 1 million telephone operators in the 50s in the US alone, think of all the lamplighters that had to quit their job, and the ridiculous examples can continue over and over. Europe currently needs millions of workers and not all of them are skilled, you still need tons of mechanics, construction workers, butchers,  retail personnel, cleaning, and so on and on.

But more important, is that you again spy100?  

If most machinery needs to be supervised when it's in use... hire a robot to supervise it as i don't want a "job" that i sit  around and do nothing all day , i don't want to waste my life like that , life is to short , my goal in life as a human is not to become president or super famous etc etc , i just want a job that i am good at, that i like and that i can show to my kids ..."hey kid i made this , you make something better then me"

One single EMP device / bomb can destroy a fully automated factory / robot etc ...point is ...that humans wil be f..cked if they will lose the fundamental skills to survive and if they allow themselves to depend to much on robots / machines ...

Oh and you got to pay more protection tax to Gov so it pays me benefits for losing my job to robots else how knows,a  EMP device that  will destroy your machines or i come to your house and take all your food etc ... makes sense ?

How did women find work when they were given the right to in European countries and around the world? The economy managed to adapt to double the workforce then and it can do the same again.

Most people should be able to turn a hobby into a job, sure bricklaying could be done by a computer maybe but if a wealthy person wants a well designed (piece with character on their wall, they'll need an artist to carry it out and give credit to them to fully show it off/impress.

There are a lot of tasks computers can do well but there are also a lot they can't do on their own. Things like fruit picking rely heavily on people almost everywhere as well as item selection in warehouses is hard to achieve with robots and will be for a while. Most machinary needs to be supervised when it's in use too.

What jobs ? explain to me how all can become computer scientists,painters and so on ...we all have our talents ...a bricklayer talent is bricklaying ,a taxi driver talent is driving cars and so on ,we all have unique skills ,talents...

Basically what technology is doing ,is trying to replace humans  instead of making it work for humans.

It isn't if everything grows and changes together.

New jobs will usually come out of the old ones that need to be replaced or will make people move to other things. You still need competition in an automation driven economy, most developed countries are heavily weighted on materialistic goods and services rather than needs like food and water.

It would be better as there will be a higher demand for jobs ....

Also people are not taught in schools to use the resources they have ....

Have you noticed how in the Sahara Desert they are trying to grow crops or raise domestic animals instead of teaching them how to use solar power and sand ?

What i am trying to say is that something has failed / short circuited in the system and it's fundamental ...we need to fix it, or we are all fu...cked.

It is impossible to do that, there is no way to produce enough goods without the use of machinery that adds to our production, even with it we are close to a global food crisis, can you imagine how bad it would be if we stopped using machinery to produce food? Unemployment is without a doubt an issue that requires to be solved or at least to be reduced, but to stop using our technology is the wrong way to do this

Machinery / technology / robotics / ai  is making you poor

The aim for all producers / businesses  is to make their factories fully automated ( meaning to get rid of humans in the manufacturing process )

We are 8 billion people on Earth ,it's impossible for all of us to work for Governments / in Programming or Creativity related jobs.

By next decade we will be even more people do to current crisis as people have nothing to do and they make babies ... lots and lots of baby's .

Stop buying from automated / technological advanced companies ! Buy from companies that work with people and hire people !

Your destroying your children future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lights_out_(manufacturing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-VR4IcDhX0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lpxRzhmwUw

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Wow look at that big corporate wallet so shiny and pretty , great craftsmanship ,i will buy 2 even if it costs 1000 euros / wallet
- It will not last you even 2 years do to fact it's made using stu...pid standards and probably automated machinery
- This wallet can't be repaired and the material is probably some synthetic  leather

https://i.ibb.co/rw6YBJk/Screenshot-from-2022-05-18-07-09-23.png
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Hmmm ,handmade wallet it's 200 euros so expensive ,it's kind of ugly poor guy could even stich it right ,he should learn from the big corporate company how to make wallets ,the corporation is expert ,specialist at wallets making ,this guy is just an amateur trying to make a quick buck ...
- This wallet will last you a lifetime and your grate grate grand kids possible will use it
- It's easy to repair and the material is perfect

https://i.ibb.co/2MCknbK/Screenshot-from-2022-05-18-07-09-37.png
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Show me one robot that made something that lasted a lifetime or something that it will not brake easy  ?