This isn't relevant in my case since I was never asked to stop playing any game.
You have been asked to stop playing all games. I think we're done here.
Topic: StrikeSapphire | We need some support. (Read 6778 times)
You have been asked to stop playing all games. I think we're done here.
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however, the casino reserves the right to request any player cease playing any game, and/or to remove any game from circulation or alter its stated odds structure at any time without warning or consent.
This isn't relevant in my case since I was never asked to stop playing any game.
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If the Casino should find that any information given by a player is false, the Casino reserves the right to suspend the player's account along with all funds. The player's account will remain suspended until such time as the Casino has determined to its satisfaction that the player's information was authentic and accurate.
This also isnt relevant, since the casino didn't find that information we had given was false. The casino just got mad, leapt to incorrect conclusions and made crazy unfounded accusations. At no point was I asked for proof of identity. And neither was my allegedly imaginary girlfriend.
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Multiple players may play at the casino from the same IP address, provided they are not on the same computer or members of the same household (for instance, multiple players may join from a single internet cafe); however, players are hereby warned that should two players at the same IP address join the same table, their risk of being investigated for collusive behavior is more than doubled, and the burden of proof is on the players in such instances to demonstrate that they were not colluding.
Is it ever possible to prove people aren't colluding? What evidence could possibly show that I didn't have a secret channel of communication with another player? That condition would seem to be unenforceable. The "not on the same computer" is unclear. Does it mean two people can't share a computer at the same time, or ever? Is it OK for one to log off and the other to log onto the same computer? Either way, we cleared the "same household" thing with Josh before I even signed up since the system banned us both when I first attempted to sign up from the same IP address as pet.
ssaCEO I think you might need to update your sites rules and terms so everyone is clear on what is allowed and tolerated.
Our TOS says:
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We recognize, and treat differently, two different types of "advantage play":
The first type occurs when a player gains a mathematical advantage over the house. Examples are card counting and, in the case of some of our games, manipulating pay tables in ways that are unintended results of our algorithms or controls. This does not include making alterations to our client software or attempting to hack the site; simply mathematical prowess. The Casino respects mathematical prowess, and shall not deprive any winner of earnings gained by leveraging a found mathematical advantage in one of our games; however, the casino reserves the right to request any player cease playing any game, and/or to remove any game from circulation or alter its stated odds structure at any time without warning or consent.
The first type occurs when a player gains a mathematical advantage over the house. Examples are card counting and, in the case of some of our games, manipulating pay tables in ways that are unintended results of our algorithms or controls. This does not include making alterations to our client software or attempting to hack the site; simply mathematical prowess. The Casino respects mathematical prowess, and shall not deprive any winner of earnings gained by leveraging a found mathematical advantage in one of our games; however, the casino reserves the right to request any player cease playing any game, and/or to remove any game from circulation or alter its stated odds structure at any time without warning or consent.
It also says:
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By creating an account, a player guarantees the truth and accuracy of all information submitted. If the Casino should find that any information given by a player is false, the Casino reserves the right to suspend the player's account along with all funds. The player's account will remain suspended until such time as the Casino has determined to its satisfaction that the player's information was authentic and accurate.
And this:
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Multiple players may play at the casino from the same IP address, provided they are not on the same computer or members of the same household (for instance, multiple players may join from a single internet cafe); however, players are hereby warned that should two players at the same IP address join the same table, their risk of being investigated for collusive behavior is more than doubled, and the burden of proof is on the players in such instances to demonstrate that they were not colluding.
There's nothing yet in there about being a troll, but I'm strongly considering adding a paragraph. For now, I think it's covered by:
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The Casino reserves the right to refuse membership or to freeze an existing member's playing privileges without cause, at the Casino's sole discretion.
ssaCEO I think you might need to update your sites rules and terms so everyone is clear on what is allowed and tolerated.
Good luck.
Good luck.
SapphireHouse: you guys switch tables often when the number gets low
SapphireHouse: we allow that
SapphireHouse: we allow that
How you got that we were cool with you counting cards out of that is emblematic of many of the issues you've had with us.
When you said that you allow me to switch tables when the count goes bad, that's what made me think you were cool with it. I took the "for some reason" to mean that you personally weren't OK with it, but that your boss Josh was, and so you had to allow it.
Also, Josh giving pet (bad) advice on how to count cards more effectively implies pretty strongly that he both knows about and allows the strategy:
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joshstrike (MOD): I was telling her, if you're gonna count cards
joshstrike (MOD): you're better off sticking to one table
joshstrike (MOD): and moderating your bet
joshstrike (MOD): b/c a new table is a total unknown for the first few hands.
joshstrike (MOD): you're better off sticking to one table
joshstrike (MOD): and moderating your bet
joshstrike (MOD): b/c a new table is a total unknown for the first few hands.
I had other conversations with Josh in which he made it clear that he was OK with me counting, but that was before I realised that keeping records of my interactions with him might be useful.
Here's another public poker room chat with your moderator Jonathon on June 16th 2012 in which he tells me explicitly that you allow counting:
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dooglus: oh, fragile - I was wondering is it deliberate that petres and I can't play blackjack together too?
dooglus: there's no collusion possibility there
a75rtuga: lol
SapphireHouse: there is collusion possibility thre
SapphireHouse: there
dooglus: how?
SapphireHouse: counting cards
SapphireHouse: you guys switch tables often when the number gets low
SapphireHouse: we allow that
dooglus: hmm
SapphireHouse: for some reason
SapphireHouse: not going to let you sit there and play six or whatever
dooglus: I see
dooglus: so it's about limiting the effective max bet
dooglus: that makes sense
dooglus: I don't think I ever played all 3 seats at once
dooglus: so that's probably not an issue
dooglus: but I understand now
dooglus: there's no collusion possibility there
a75rtuga: lol
SapphireHouse: there is collusion possibility thre
SapphireHouse: there
dooglus: how?
SapphireHouse: counting cards
SapphireHouse: you guys switch tables often when the number gets low
SapphireHouse: we allow that
dooglus: hmm
SapphireHouse: for some reason
SapphireHouse: not going to let you sit there and play six or whatever
dooglus: I see
dooglus: so it's about limiting the effective max bet
dooglus: that makes sense
dooglus: I don't think I ever played all 3 seats at once
dooglus: so that's probably not an issue
dooglus: but I understand now
You're asking me why you can't play on the same blackjack table as someone in the same room as you because there's no possibility of collusion. I respond by telling you there is a great issue with collusion in that scenario. You ask me how? I give you the answer: counting cards, or in other words, the reason you can't play with your girlfriend, the reason there's a chance for collusion. I go on to say that you guys switch tables when you think it benefits you, which we allow (for some reason). Obviously I'm not happy that you're moving tables every four hands (that should be clear). However, I'm not going to let you sit there and play all six hands because its too easy to count cards.
How you got that we were cool with you counting cards out of that is emblematic of many of the issues you've had with us.
I'd love to give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's a simple issue with miscommunication on the internet, as often happens. Except if you're playing blackjack (anywhere), you should have a reasonable understanding that the house doesn't take kindly to folks who count cards, and that the house isn't going to tolerate somebody using that angle if they're successful. It's apparent you don't grasp this as an issue; unfortunately, it's this precise level of ignorance (wink) that has caused many of the problems that plagued your time on our website.
The fact that your card counting was barely a blip on the radar of warning signs we got from your play on our site should be a clear indication as to why you aren't welcome any longer.
It's yet another thing to set up petrescuerz to do the same thing and/or to do this with two separate accounts. Where does that end? Why would we want that to continue growing and metastasizing?
I understand. You're trying to make money. It makes good business sense not to tolerate people winning regularly if you can somehow get away with such a strategy without looking bad.
You're trying to challenge this on technical grounds as to whether you violated any of our terms, but we're past that. There's an attitudinal problem with a player who does all these things at the same time. We're talking now about the totality of your actions, the meaning behind them, and our right to refuse you service. I hope this clarifies our position and you understand why we've asked you to leave.
I accept your right to ban me and am happy to stay away. I don't accept that I did anything wrong or against the spirit of the rules. If using my brain is wrong I don't wanna be right.
It's one thing to count cards. It's another to open six tables at a time and continuously switch between them, logging out to clear them when you've used up the maximum number of tables. We may very well ask people to stop playing for that reason in the future, if anyone else actually did it. In your case we sat back and watched to see if it would work. We changed our shuffle to earlier in the deck because we wanted to know if that would change your playing behavior. You didn't let on that you knew it, but obviously you did. When you saw the next day's shuffle stats, you stopped playing. Which says to me that you won't play under normal conditions, even when you can still count at least 6 hands into a six card shoe which is plenty more of a buffer than you get in a regular casino with a continuous shuffle (and 5 hands more than at any other online casino). That seems a bit greedy.
It's another thing to leverage your card counting into winning tournaments in conjunction with last-second bets, holding cash on tables, and any other ways you can find to bend the spirit of the rules. Perhaps if some of your play was only to leverage one advantage (card-counting, or last-minute betting), rather than both advantages, and fell outside at least one of those two categories, it wouldn't have been quite as abusive.
It's yet another thing to set up petrescuerz to do the same thing and/or to do this with two separate accounts. Where does that end? Why would we want that to continue growing and metastasizing?
Finally, making snide comments in our threads about our security protocols while we're letting you do all of the above crossed a line which led me to blow a fuse. Again I apologize for the outburst and the lack of tact. I really should have been more cool-headed about it. Like I said, I am not the best guy at PR, but I'm trying to learn from my mistakes.
You're trying to challenge this on technical grounds as to whether you violated any of our terms, but we're past that. There's an attitudinal problem with a player who does all these things at the same time. We're talking now about the totality of your actions, the meaning behind them, and our right to refuse you service. I hope this clarifies our position and you understand why we've asked you to leave.
It's another thing to leverage your card counting into winning tournaments in conjunction with last-second bets, holding cash on tables, and any other ways you can find to bend the spirit of the rules. Perhaps if some of your play was only to leverage one advantage (card-counting, or last-minute betting), rather than both advantages, and fell outside at least one of those two categories, it wouldn't have been quite as abusive.
It's yet another thing to set up petrescuerz to do the same thing and/or to do this with two separate accounts. Where does that end? Why would we want that to continue growing and metastasizing?
Finally, making snide comments in our threads about our security protocols while we're letting you do all of the above crossed a line which led me to blow a fuse. Again I apologize for the outburst and the lack of tact. I really should have been more cool-headed about it. Like I said, I am not the best guy at PR, but I'm trying to learn from my mistakes.
You're trying to challenge this on technical grounds as to whether you violated any of our terms, but we're past that. There's an attitudinal problem with a player who does all these things at the same time. We're talking now about the totality of your actions, the meaning behind them, and our right to refuse you service. I hope this clarifies our position and you understand why we've asked you to leave.
[...], ends w/ Dooglus talking about how he beat our system by counting cards which was just another of many issues we had with him.
I never hid the fact that I was counting cards. I discussed it with you publicly several times. And your T&C even say it's OK. Here's a poker table chat from May 23rd 2012, in which you say (1) that it's fine for me to continue attempting to win tournaments using the tactics I had been using up to then (2) that you no longer suspected Doug and I of being the same person and (3) that you know pet and I are counting cards, but that you think were doing it wrong.
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dooglus: josh: I emailed you asking if you wanted me to back off on the tournament but didn't get a reply
joshstrike (MOD): Right, I was going to respond,
joshstrike (MOD): don't. Do your thing.
bonjin: maybe should make the target $25.01
bonjin:
joshstrike (MOD): actually we talked about $30, yeah.
dooglus: what if I make and win a last minute $25 blackjack bet and win it. won't you get an ulcer?
joshstrike (MOD): but we do have the new $15 blackjack table open to everyone
joshstrike (MOD): no, doog, you can do that.
joshstrike (MOD): you know the issue was about the conversation we had prior to that
dooglus: ok
joshstrike (MOD): we aren't cracking down on last-minute bets or anything like that.
dooglus: by the way, I noticed yesterday that I had emailed you about "doug" about a week ago. if you search emails from me, I've only said "doug" once to y
dooglus: ou
a75rtuga: KKQQQ
dooglus: re. the doog/doug confusion
joshstrike (MOD): @bonjin but $30 seemed too high
bonjin: yeah could be too high
joshstrike (MOD): @doog I got it sorted out, finally
dooglus: good
joshstrike (MOD): $25 puts you and doog on an equal 1-bet basis to tie
joshstrike (MOD): and puts non-star players one bet away from beating you
dooglus: pet likes the new blackjack table
bonjin: that $15 blackjack killed me yesterday
bonjin: dealer kept hitting blackjack or 20
dooglus: she had a big run of cards where she couldn't lose
dooglus: then a big run where that's all shoe could do
dooglus: she* lol
bonjin: yeah, it does seem to go in runs
joshstrike (MOD): was she still switching off tables?
a75rtuga: nh guys!
dooglus: I think so
dooglus: these "runs" were tables
joshstrike (MOD): I don't know if that strategy really helps
dooglus: me neither
dooglus: it doesn't seem to work for me
joshstrike (MOD): I was telling her, if you're gonna count cards
dooglus: I'm $50 down on blackjack still, even after that $20 win
joshstrike (MOD): you're better off sticking to one table
joshstrike (MOD): and moderating your bet
joshstrike (MOD): b/c a new table is a total unknown for the first few hands.
dooglus: but aren't you better on a neutral table than a 'cold' one?
joshstrike (MOD): of course this requires betting more than the minimum per hand
joshstrike (MOD): no, a cold one is a known quantity, just bet low
dooglus: hmm
joshstrike (MOD): also what you consider cold is sometimes only +3 to +5. I don't think you're counting right.
joshstrike (MOD): believe me, we checked =)
bonjin: does counting work on online casinos like this?
joshstrike (MOD): in ours it does.
joshstrike (MOD): most of the time, no
joshstrike (MOD): but we use a six deck shoe that goes from one hand to the next.
bonjin: ok
bonjin: gg
a75rtuga: hey pm! :O
a75rtuga: gg
joshstrike (MOD): we don't tell you when it gets shuffled, but we do show it the next day
joshstrike (MOD): most online casinos just use a new deck for every hand.
joshstrike (MOD): we're the only one I know of that doesn't.
bonjin: might need to learn more about this. lol
joshstrike (MOD): but as doog discovered, we do also burn a card between each deal.
bonjin: what does that mean?
joshstrike (MOD): we discard one from the deck before each hand.
joshstrike (MOD): all together this does increase your odds as a player
joshstrike (MOD): but only to the point of playing in a real casino on a six deck shoe
joshstrike (MOD): in other words it's better than a continuous shuffler.
a75rtuga: hey
EasyJest: it sure is
joshstrike (MOD): Right, I was going to respond,
joshstrike (MOD): don't. Do your thing.
bonjin: maybe should make the target $25.01
bonjin:
joshstrike (MOD): actually we talked about $30, yeah.
dooglus: what if I make and win a last minute $25 blackjack bet and win it. won't you get an ulcer?
joshstrike (MOD): but we do have the new $15 blackjack table open to everyone
joshstrike (MOD): no, doog, you can do that.
joshstrike (MOD): you know the issue was about the conversation we had prior to that
dooglus: ok
joshstrike (MOD): we aren't cracking down on last-minute bets or anything like that.
dooglus: by the way, I noticed yesterday that I had emailed you about "doug" about a week ago. if you search emails from me, I've only said "doug" once to y
dooglus: ou
a75rtuga: KKQQQ
dooglus: re. the doog/doug confusion
joshstrike (MOD): @bonjin but $30 seemed too high
bonjin: yeah could be too high
joshstrike (MOD): @doog I got it sorted out, finally
dooglus: good
joshstrike (MOD): $25 puts you and doog on an equal 1-bet basis to tie
joshstrike (MOD): and puts non-star players one bet away from beating you
dooglus: pet likes the new blackjack table
bonjin: that $15 blackjack killed me yesterday
bonjin: dealer kept hitting blackjack or 20
dooglus: she had a big run of cards where she couldn't lose
dooglus: then a big run where that's all shoe could do
dooglus: she* lol
bonjin: yeah, it does seem to go in runs
joshstrike (MOD): was she still switching off tables?
a75rtuga: nh guys!
dooglus: I think so
dooglus: these "runs" were tables
joshstrike (MOD): I don't know if that strategy really helps
dooglus: me neither
dooglus: it doesn't seem to work for me
joshstrike (MOD): I was telling her, if you're gonna count cards
dooglus: I'm $50 down on blackjack still, even after that $20 win
joshstrike (MOD): you're better off sticking to one table
joshstrike (MOD): and moderating your bet
joshstrike (MOD): b/c a new table is a total unknown for the first few hands.
dooglus: but aren't you better on a neutral table than a 'cold' one?
joshstrike (MOD): of course this requires betting more than the minimum per hand
joshstrike (MOD): no, a cold one is a known quantity, just bet low
dooglus: hmm
joshstrike (MOD): also what you consider cold is sometimes only +3 to +5. I don't think you're counting right.
joshstrike (MOD): believe me, we checked =)
bonjin: does counting work on online casinos like this?
joshstrike (MOD): in ours it does.
joshstrike (MOD): most of the time, no
joshstrike (MOD): but we use a six deck shoe that goes from one hand to the next.
bonjin: ok
bonjin: gg
a75rtuga: hey pm! :O
a75rtuga: gg
joshstrike (MOD): we don't tell you when it gets shuffled, but we do show it the next day
joshstrike (MOD): most online casinos just use a new deck for every hand.
joshstrike (MOD): we're the only one I know of that doesn't.
bonjin: might need to learn more about this. lol
joshstrike (MOD): but as doog discovered, we do also burn a card between each deal.
bonjin: what does that mean?
joshstrike (MOD): we discard one from the deck before each hand.
joshstrike (MOD): all together this does increase your odds as a player
joshstrike (MOD): but only to the point of playing in a real casino on a six deck shoe
joshstrike (MOD): in other words it's better than a continuous shuffler.
a75rtuga: hey
EasyJest: it sure is
Does that look like underhand cheating to you? Or an open discussion of strategy?
Here's another public poker room chat with your moderator Jonathon on June 16th 2012 in which he tells me explicitly that you allow counting:
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dooglus: oh, fragile - I was wondering is it deliberate that petres and I can't play blackjack together too?
dooglus: there's no collusion possibility there
a75rtuga: lol
SapphireHouse: there is collusion possibility thre
SapphireHouse: there
dooglus: how?
SapphireHouse: counting cards
SapphireHouse: you guys switch tables often when the number gets low
SapphireHouse: we allow that
dooglus: hmm
SapphireHouse: for some reason
SapphireHouse: not going to let you sit there and play six or whatever
dooglus: I see
dooglus: so it's about limiting the effective max bet
dooglus: that makes sense
dooglus: I don't think I ever played all 3 seats at once
dooglus: so that's probably not an issue
dooglus: but I understand now
dooglus: there's no collusion possibility there
a75rtuga: lol
SapphireHouse: there is collusion possibility thre
SapphireHouse: there
dooglus: how?
SapphireHouse: counting cards
SapphireHouse: you guys switch tables often when the number gets low
SapphireHouse: we allow that
dooglus: hmm
SapphireHouse: for some reason
SapphireHouse: not going to let you sit there and play six or whatever
dooglus: I see
dooglus: so it's about limiting the effective max bet
dooglus: that makes sense
dooglus: I don't think I ever played all 3 seats at once
dooglus: so that's probably not an issue
dooglus: but I understand now
Here are the T&C relating to card counting - this is what gave me to idea to try it initially, since you say you respect it. I've not checked the T&C since 20th June to see if they have changed. This is how they looked then.
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We recognize, and treat differently, two different types of "advantage play":
The first type occurs when a player gains a mathematical advantage over the house. Examples are card counting [and ...]. The Casino respects mathematical prowess, and shall not deprive any winner of earnings gained by leveraging a found mathematical advantage in one of our games; however, the casino reserves the right to request any player cease playing any game, and/or to remove any game from circulation or alter its stated odds structure at any time without warning or consent.
The second type of AP we recognize occurs when a player discovers a bug in a game. [...]
The first type occurs when a player gains a mathematical advantage over the house. Examples are card counting [and ...]. The Casino respects mathematical prowess, and shall not deprive any winner of earnings gained by leveraging a found mathematical advantage in one of our games; however, the casino reserves the right to request any player cease playing any game, and/or to remove any game from circulation or alter its stated odds structure at any time without warning or consent.
The second type of AP we recognize occurs when a player discovers a bug in a game. [...]
If you had an issue with the way I was playing, you should have let me know about it. The only issue I heard about from you was that you thought I was doing it wrong.
Again I'll state - I don't think I did anything that you didn't encourage. You entice play with bonuses and competitions, and I played to win those bonuses and competitions. You offer to reward bug reports with player points, so I made a lot of bug reports. And you post terms saying you respect mathematical advantage, so I played the game with the best mathematical advantage.
And I'm posting in your thread again when I said I would stop.
It does look like I have to have the last word doesn't it, I'm sorry. I'll try to restrain myself now.
Just one more thing about this matter, Josh: Please refrain from commenting on any kind of referral or game stats related with my Strike Sapphire account with anyone who isn't an acting officer or employee of the company that runs the Strike Sapphire casino.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Definitely. And I'm sorry. We don't want to publish referral stats in a way that discloses the identities of affiliates or players. It came up as part of looking into the CTR on the links in Mem's thread. It was a narrow incident and the only info shared was the relative number of clicks that we thought came from the links in there. I should have been more vague about it, not given a number, and I apologize.
Just one more thing about this matter, Josh: Please refrain from commenting on any kind of referral or game stats related with my Strike Sapphire account with anyone who isn't an acting officer or employee of the company that runs the Strike Sapphire casino.
Thank you.
Thank you.
About you mem... all I can say is that all I said about you is the truth. You're nothing more than a delusional pathological liar and anything you say shouldn't be given any credit whatsoever.
I still dont get where your delusions come from ?
You lie and lie and lie, get called out on it and go quite (unable to defend your position I guess), then revert back to lying once again without ever justifying your positions. Ontop of that the childish insults..... I mean why bother even talking to me if thats your end point, I stop reading after the first one as you just deteriorate into a childish rant with no substance.
Ignoring you for now until I see a civil email explaining wtf I am lying about, as you have clearly demonstrated the moment you have an audience you cannot ignore past butt hurts.
How about you keep your nasty BFL fanboy butt hurt displays to appropriate threads, ie mining subforums.
Now please guys, break it up. Like I said, you're both valued guests and we don't want to be in the middle of anything. I'm obviously over my limit on the amount of yelling going on in my threads already (mostly my own yelling, it's true)... I'd like to avoid giving the impression that I'm running some kinda madhouse over there. I realize I set a bad tone the last couple days, but can we all be civilized and get back to business?
Done and done. Psy can either continue his ranting and ignored or discuss his personal grievances (which have no place here) in pm.
Keep rocking SS and keep that bitcoin dream alive.
I don't think my referrals were coming from mem thread but from the link I had on my forum signature. The bit.ly link stats are public and the link was clicked more than 680 times.
Probably a lot of them were. At the time I was looking into whether Mem's thread was sending any traffic to us. There were inbound clicks from his thread, but none with his affiliate code. In any case, when we looked at the behavior of the people you sent in, there was nothing odd there. I just looked again and there's nothing strange about it.
Now please guys, break it up. Like I said, you're both valued guests and we don't want to be in the middle of anything. I'm obviously over my limit on the amount of yelling going on in my threads already (mostly my own yelling, it's true)... I'd like to avoid giving the impression that I'm running some kinda madhouse over there. I realize I set a bad tone the last couple days, but can we all be civilized and get back to business?
I don't think my referrals were coming from mem thread but from the link I had on my forum signature. The bit.ly link stats are public and the link was clicked more than 680 times.
About you mem... all I can say is that all I said about you is the truth. You're nothing more than a delusional pathological liar and anything you say shouldn't be given any credit whatsoever.
About you mem... all I can say is that all I said about you is the truth. You're nothing more than a delusional pathological liar and anything you say shouldn't be given any credit whatsoever.
Okay. Everybody stay calm! Psy & Mem, this is a misunderstanding.
The Dooglus situation didn't have to do with referral abuse per se. I don't want to get into that again here... all of that is covered in the other thread, ends w/ Dooglus talking about how he beat our system by counting cards which was just another of many issues we had with him. I agree I handled it badly and lost my temper, and should have dealt with that in a better way. I agree I'm sometimes rough around the edges and not the best guy at handling PR.
However!
Mem: We never accused Psy of referral fraud. In fact I've talked with him and he's helped me with SEO tips. He's a good player on our site, has always been friendly at the tables, and he's been generous with his time. He is not under any suspicion. AFAIK he hasn't done anything wrong.
Psy: This misunderstanding arose for one reason, which was that a few months ago we got a bunch of referrals from your link in the "Mem's Gambling List" thread, but we had none from Mem's own link. I don't know why that is. I think it was the fact that your link was the most visible. I suggested to Mem that he could make his own referral link more visible to capture some of the traffic from the thread.
We looked internally at your referrals at the time to see if there were any questionable play patterns involving the referrals. There were not. We did not have further discussions about it with Mem.
I should be clear that even if Psy was telling people "hey go to this thread and click my link" that is by no means referral abuse. We're happy to have that. Referral abuse is if the accounts being referred belong to the same person. We thoroughly analyze these patterns for all referrals, and I want to stress that there is no evidence that Psy did anything unusual or was even aware that people were clicking that link.
I can understand why Mem might have taken away from this that Psy was up to something, I think at the time I wrote that we were going to look into the reasons; however as far as we were concerned after checking the reports, there were no problems, case closed. Psy does not appear on any of our internal reports and has never raised any red flags in our system.
Mem, I don't know if or what you've heard from other site owners, and we don't share information with other sites about players.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding this has caused between you guys. You're both great guests on our site and we like having both of you there. I hope this clears the air.
The Dooglus situation didn't have to do with referral abuse per se. I don't want to get into that again here... all of that is covered in the other thread, ends w/ Dooglus talking about how he beat our system by counting cards which was just another of many issues we had with him. I agree I handled it badly and lost my temper, and should have dealt with that in a better way. I agree I'm sometimes rough around the edges and not the best guy at handling PR.
However!
Mem: We never accused Psy of referral fraud. In fact I've talked with him and he's helped me with SEO tips. He's a good player on our site, has always been friendly at the tables, and he's been generous with his time. He is not under any suspicion. AFAIK he hasn't done anything wrong.
Psy: This misunderstanding arose for one reason, which was that a few months ago we got a bunch of referrals from your link in the "Mem's Gambling List" thread, but we had none from Mem's own link. I don't know why that is. I think it was the fact that your link was the most visible. I suggested to Mem that he could make his own referral link more visible to capture some of the traffic from the thread.
We looked internally at your referrals at the time to see if there were any questionable play patterns involving the referrals. There were not. We did not have further discussions about it with Mem.
I should be clear that even if Psy was telling people "hey go to this thread and click my link" that is by no means referral abuse. We're happy to have that. Referral abuse is if the accounts being referred belong to the same person. We thoroughly analyze these patterns for all referrals, and I want to stress that there is no evidence that Psy did anything unusual or was even aware that people were clicking that link.
I can understand why Mem might have taken away from this that Psy was up to something, I think at the time I wrote that we were going to look into the reasons; however as far as we were concerned after checking the reports, there were no problems, case closed. Psy does not appear on any of our internal reports and has never raised any red flags in our system.
Mem, I don't know if or what you've heard from other site owners, and we don't share information with other sites about players.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding this has caused between you guys. You're both great guests on our site and we like having both of you there. I hope this clears the air.
Well thank you for clearing up that confusion, we all have our bad days (try not to have them at work if you can
).Running an online/other casino means you will have players rock up with their systems (or looking for exploits). I do it myself (see my satoshidice bot). It is up to the casino to ensure a profit, sure live casino's can and will kick you out (2x for me) but they will wear the bad PR if handled bad.
If card counting is indeed an issue, so be it or up the deck count or ban the player.
Glad to see the thread is back on track, Psy I hope this has cleared up any confusion.
Dooglus I hope you get a satisfactory resolution, I hope you do not get banned but please note I consider site bans the right of the casino operator and it would not keep a site out of my list (refusing to payout any wins however would).
Okay. Everybody stay calm! Psy & Mem, this is a misunderstanding.
The Dooglus situation didn't have to do with referral abuse per se. I don't want to get into that again here... all of that is covered in the other thread, ends w/ Dooglus talking about how he beat our system by counting cards which was just another of many issues we had with him. I agree I handled it badly and lost my temper, and should have dealt with that in a better way. I agree I'm sometimes rough around the edges and not the best guy at handling PR.
However!
Mem: We never accused Psy of referral fraud. In fact I've talked with him and he's helped me with SEO tips. He's a good player on our site, has always been friendly at the tables, and he's been generous with his time. He is not under any suspicion. AFAIK he hasn't done anything wrong.
Psy: This misunderstanding arose for one reason, which was that a few months ago we got a bunch of referrals from your link in the "Mem's Gambling List" thread, but we had none from Mem's own link. I don't know why that is. I think it was the fact that your link was the most visible. I suggested to Mem that he could make his own referral link more visible to capture some of the traffic from the thread.
We looked internally at your referrals at the time to see if there were any questionable play patterns involving the referrals. There were not. We did not have further discussions about it with Mem.
I should be clear that even if Psy was telling people "hey go to this thread and click my link" that is by no means referral abuse. We're happy to have that. Referral abuse is if the accounts being referred belong to the same person. We thoroughly analyze these patterns for all referrals, and I want to stress that there is no evidence that Psy did anything unusual or was even aware that people were clicking that link.
I can understand why Mem might have taken away from this that Psy was up to something, I think at the time I wrote that we were going to look into the reasons; however as far as we were concerned after checking the reports, there were no problems, case closed. Psy does not appear on any of our internal reports and has never raised any red flags in our system.
Mem, I don't know if or what you've heard from other site owners, and we don't share information with other sites about players.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding this has caused between you guys. You're both great guests on our site and we like having both of you there. I hope this clears the air.
The Dooglus situation didn't have to do with referral abuse per se. I don't want to get into that again here... all of that is covered in the other thread, ends w/ Dooglus talking about how he beat our system by counting cards which was just another of many issues we had with him. I agree I handled it badly and lost my temper, and should have dealt with that in a better way. I agree I'm sometimes rough around the edges and not the best guy at handling PR.
However!
Mem: We never accused Psy of referral fraud. In fact I've talked with him and he's helped me with SEO tips. He's a good player on our site, has always been friendly at the tables, and he's been generous with his time. He is not under any suspicion. AFAIK he hasn't done anything wrong.
Psy: This misunderstanding arose for one reason, which was that a few months ago we got a bunch of referrals from your link in the "Mem's Gambling List" thread, but we had none from Mem's own link. I don't know why that is. I think it was the fact that your link was the most visible. I suggested to Mem that he could make his own referral link more visible to capture some of the traffic from the thread.
We looked internally at your referrals at the time to see if there were any questionable play patterns involving the referrals. There were not. We did not have further discussions about it with Mem.
I should be clear that even if Psy was telling people "hey go to this thread and click my link" that is by no means referral abuse. We're happy to have that. Referral abuse is if the accounts being referred belong to the same person. We thoroughly analyze these patterns for all referrals, and I want to stress that there is no evidence that Psy did anything unusual or was even aware that people were clicking that link.
I can understand why Mem might have taken away from this that Psy was up to something, I think at the time I wrote that we were going to look into the reasons; however as far as we were concerned after checking the reports, there were no problems, case closed. Psy does not appear on any of our internal reports and has never raised any red flags in our system.
Mem, I don't know if or what you've heard from other site owners, and we don't share information with other sites about players.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding this has caused between you guys. You're both great guests on our site and we like having both of you there. I hope this clears the air.
Josh and mem, one of you 2 will have to put up or shut up. I'm not letting this go.
My what an entitled and unpleasant person you are, 1 page ago you attack me without provocation now you are making demands.
So I'm the entitled and unpleasent when it was you who accused ME of referral fraud.
I don't know if you're lying or telling the truth about Josh saying it, but one of you will get out of this looking bad.
Josh and mem, one of you 2 will have to put up or shut up. I'm not letting this go.
My what an entitled and unpleasant person you are, 1 page ago you attack me without provocation now you are making demands.
Civility people (ssaCEO, PSY and potential Dooglus sock puppets), it goes a long way.
My automatic attitude to any demand is to say no, because I am a bit of a prick - so .... NO
edit: Id say no anyway, this is for ssaCEO to address. I put my 2c in to vouch for the site and the operator and to call for calmer heads.
OK Im getting distracted from work here so this is a quick update then Im back into it.
Dooglus I went back through my emails etc and did not find you mentioned, I fear I have mistaken accusations against you for accusations against PSY (small world isnt it).
PSY has been under suspicion of referral fraud and questions raised with myself (and others) regarding the activities.
The information provided is quite convincing (Id believe it) and I find it unlikely the site admin went to manufacture this scenario around PSY - there is not a simple explanation for that motive. The simpler explanation is that PSY did indeed abuse the referral system and wishes to hide it.
I am not disclosing who or what site (you can guess Im sure) or the contents of the emails / PM's.
There is a reason people chose to discuss these things in private when there is only suspicion.
To make my position clear again:
I like SS's site.
My previous dealings with ssaCEO has been without issue (but I am not a normal client).
The handling of this dooglus issue was bad to say the least.
Abusing a referral system is a dick move, so is abusing any promotion imho.
I still stand by the SS site and I hope ssaCEO will come back refreshed and clean up this mess and confusion.
A polite refusal or even a simple ban would of sufficed I feel rather than the threads we have all seen by now.
Dooglus I went back through my emails etc and did not find you mentioned, I fear I have mistaken accusations against you for accusations against PSY (small world isnt it).
PSY has been under suspicion of referral fraud and questions raised with myself (and others) regarding the activities.
The information provided is quite convincing (Id believe it) and I find it unlikely the site admin went to manufacture this scenario around PSY - there is not a simple explanation for that motive. The simpler explanation is that PSY did indeed abuse the referral system and wishes to hide it.
I am not disclosing who or what site (you can guess Im sure) or the contents of the emails / PM's.
There is a reason people chose to discuss these things in private when there is only suspicion.
To make my position clear again:
I like SS's site.
My previous dealings with ssaCEO has been without issue (but I am not a normal client).
The handling of this dooglus issue was bad to say the least.
Abusing a referral system is a dick move, so is abusing any promotion imho.
I still stand by the SS site and I hope ssaCEO will come back refreshed and clean up this mess and confusion.
A polite refusal or even a simple ban would of sufficed I feel rather than the threads we have all seen by now.
Quoting for future memory
I'm still waiting for the evidence... inb4 thread locked because it's yet another PR disaster for SS.
I'm fucking sorry I ever sent any of my friends there as Josh clearly isn't worth the trouble.
Oh, and before anyone asks, not one of my friends used my referral link because it wasn't even active at the translated version of the site.
I do affiliate marketing for a living, and never was I banned from any program or accused of fraud, because my leads are real, and I have thousands and thousands of dollars received from several companies to prove it.
Real companies, the kind that pay me for my leads every week/2 weeks/month, not the kind that deposits any money I make on their site so I can just gamble and lose it, like SS does, with their WR.
Josh and mem, one of you 2 will have to put up or shut up. I'm not letting this go.
I'm fucking sorry I ever sent any of my friends there as Josh clearly isn't worth the trouble.
Oh, and before anyone asks, not one of my friends used my referral link because it wasn't even active at the translated version of the site.
I do affiliate marketing for a living, and never was I banned from any program or accused of fraud, because my leads are real, and I have thousands and thousands of dollars received from several companies to prove it.
Real companies, the kind that pay me for my leads every week/2 weeks/month, not the kind that deposits any money I make on their site so I can just gamble and lose it, like SS does, with their WR.
Josh and mem, one of you 2 will have to put up or shut up. I'm not letting this go.
mem, you better do an update on your gambling thread and warn people about this SS quirk.
If i wish to retain my lists integrity Id better do no such thing.
At this point in time all we have is a unpleasant (would you say ugly Dooglus ?) dispute between a site admin and a gamer.
There are absolutely no claims of cheating, unfair results and 0 payout issues. Should any of these matters change contact me directly by email ASAP.
For example: You could be the world's biggest 'Inaba' and Id still list your site if everything checked out.
OK Im getting distracted from work here so this is a quick update then Im back into it.
Dooglus I went back through my emails etc and did not find you mentioned, I fear I have mistaken accusations against you for accusations against PSY (small world isnt it).
PSY has been under suspicion of referral fraud and questions raised with myself (and others) regarding the activities.
The information provided is quite convincing (Id believe it) and I find it unlikely the site admin went to manufacture this scenario around PSY - there is not a simple explanation for that motive. The simpler explanation is that PSY did indeed abuse the referral system and wishes to hide it.
I am not disclosing who or what site (you can guess Im sure) or the contents of the emails / PM's.
There is a reason people chose to discuss these things in private when there is only suspicion.
To make my position clear again:
I like SS's site.
My previous dealings with ssaCEO has been without issue (but I am not a normal client).
The handling of this dooglus issue was bad to say the least.
Abusing a referral system is a dick move, so is abusing any promotion imho.
I still stand by the SS site and I hope ssaCEO will come back refreshed and clean up this mess and confusion.
A polite refusal or even a simple ban would of sufficed I feel rather than the threads we have all seen by now.
Dooglus I went back through my emails etc and did not find you mentioned, I fear I have mistaken accusations against you for accusations against PSY (small world isnt it).
PSY has been under suspicion of referral fraud and questions raised with myself (and others) regarding the activities.
The information provided is quite convincing (Id believe it) and I find it unlikely the site admin went to manufacture this scenario around PSY - there is not a simple explanation for that motive. The simpler explanation is that PSY did indeed abuse the referral system and wishes to hide it.
I am not disclosing who or what site (you can guess Im sure) or the contents of the emails / PM's.
There is a reason people chose to discuss these things in private when there is only suspicion.
To make my position clear again:
I like SS's site.
My previous dealings with ssaCEO has been without issue (but I am not a normal client).
The handling of this dooglus issue was bad to say the least.
Abusing a referral system is a dick move, so is abusing any promotion imho.
I still stand by the SS site and I hope ssaCEO will come back refreshed and clean up this mess and confusion.
A polite refusal or even a simple ban would of sufficed I feel rather than the threads we have all seen by now.
So, Josh... mem just told me in a private message that you accused me of referral fraud?
Got anything to back that up? Because I'm not even going to give you any arguments why that isn't possible, but if you wish to accuse me, please do it publicly and present proof beyond resonable doubt, or else the only fraudster will be yourself.
I'm starting to sense that everyone who wins more than he deposits in Strike Sapphire will be accused of fraud.
mem, you better do an update on your gambling thread and warn people about this SS quirk.
Got anything to back that up? Because I'm not even going to give you any arguments why that isn't possible, but if you wish to accuse me, please do it publicly and present proof beyond resonable doubt, or else the only fraudster will be yourself.
I'm starting to sense that everyone who wins more than he deposits in Strike Sapphire will be accused of fraud.
mem, you better do an update on your gambling thread and warn people about this SS quirk.
WTF??? Why are you giving any credit to anything mem says?
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol
Psy, I dont know where to begin (his entire summary is made up of lies and out of date & out of context quotes) so I wont bother. Im guessing you are a child who I have previously frustrated and are unable to see past your butt hurt in any further dealings.
Trolling this thread here because of your butthurt is just pathetic and childish (Inaba is that you
).Anyway, there is no room for your lies or personal insults here please attempt to stay on topic (I know your butthurt makes it hard). I suggest you grow up and shut up unless you have something of substance to contribute to this discussion.
There are many many many threads discussing Big Fucking Liars where you are able to defend them and insult anyone daring to question them as much as your little fanboys heart desires.
This is a discussion regarding StrikeSapphire.
Me, defending BFL? I don't think so... Maybe you've seen me telling to raging lunatics thet they are ragng lunatics, which are two completely different things. I don't even mine, so I could care less about defending some company that produces mining devices. But you're still a lunatic. If anyone here is butthurt it's you, not me...
I love it how raging lunatics always seem to confuse people who call out their bullshit with people defending someone or something.
Just one more time, to clear things up: I'm attacking your bullshit, not defending BFL. Got it, lunatic?
So what is your reasoning behind your childish tantrum just now ?
How it is relevant at all.
You as a individual do not respect me..... noted and not a shit given.
Enough people consider my opinion on games respectable that I am frequently contacted and asked to comment.
So again I say, you are a butthurt little troll trolling unsuccessfully.
edit: so I do not let you troll this thread of topic I have placed you temporarily on ignore.
Should you wish to discuss your hurt feelings please drop me an email, I have a feeling you might be more mature without an audience to play up for.
WTF??? Why are you giving any credit to anything mem says?
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol
Psy, I dont know where to begin (his entire summary is made up of lies and out of date & out of context quotes) so I wont bother. Im guessing you are a child who I have previously frustrated and are unable to see past your butt hurt in any further dealings.
Trolling this thread here because of your butthurt is just pathetic and childish (Inaba is that you
).Anyway, there is no room for your lies or personal insults here please attempt to stay on topic (I know your butthurt makes it hard). I suggest you grow up and shut up unless you have something of substance to contribute to this discussion.
There are many many many threads discussing Big Fucking Liars where you are able to defend them and insult anyone daring to question them as much as your little fanboys heart desires.
This is a discussion regarding StrikeSapphire.
Me, defending BFL? I don't think so... Maybe you've seen me telling to raging lunatics thet they are ragng lunatics, which are two completely different things. I don't even mine, so I could care less about defending some company that produces mining devices. But you're still a lunatic. If anyone here is butthurt it's you, not me...
I love it how raging lunatics always seem to confuse people who call out their bullshit with people defending someone or something.
Just one more time, to clear things up: I'm attacking your bullshit, not defending BFL. Got it, lunatic?
WTF??? Why are you giving any credit to anything mem says?
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol
Psy, I dont know where to begin (his entire summary is made up of lies and out of date & out of context quotes) so I wont bother.
Im guessing you are a child who I have previously frustrated and are unable to see past your butt hurt in any further dealings.
I suggest you grow up and shut up unless you have something relevant of substance to contribute to this discussion. Arguing that "I DONT LIKE MEM HE WAS MEAN TO MEEEEEE MUMMY" is just pathetic.
There are many threads discussing Big Fucking Liars if you actually wanted to discuss your grievances instead of trolling here because you are still upset.
Hi guys, its mem - the beloved & hated gambling list maintainer.
Dooglus FYI site operators from several sites contacted me over a month ago with concerns regarding your (and 2 other members) activities, mainly potential referral abuse.
I defended you saying I had seen nothing on the forums to demonstrate you were abusing anything but I did acknowledge that the descriptions of the refereed accounts and their activities did sound like someone purposefully generating accounts to collect referrals.
Dooglus FYI site operators from several sites contacted me over a month ago with concerns regarding your (and 2 other members) activities, mainly potential referral abuse.
I defended you saying I had seen nothing on the forums to demonstrate you were abusing anything but I did acknowledge that the descriptions of the refereed accounts and their activities did sound like someone purposefully generating accounts to collect referrals.
That's so weird. Are you sure it was me? I don't think I have ever used a referral code for anything except Sapphire, and the only two people who ever deposited using my Sapphire code are IRL friends of Deb's.
I've only gambled at Seals, Sapphire, Bitzino, SatoshiDice and MyriadCoins, and of those only Sapphire even offers a referral scheme as far as I know.
I signed up for some ridiculous "bitcoin pyramid scheme" over a year ago, and may have posted my URL for that somewhere once, but I doubt if that's what you're talking about, so you've got me stumped.
Yes Dooglus you were mentioned.
Honestly I was unsure what I could do to help if you were scamming via referrals as I just maintain the list.
If you ever figure out how to game a pyramid system (without being at the top
) be sure to let me know. WTF??? Why are you giving any credit to anything mem says?
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol
I don't know the guy. I spoke to him briefly in the Sapphire poker lobby a few days ago when we were trying to get one of the 50 cent freerolls going. I also told him he had his info wrong about the max blackjack bet at Sapphire on his list of gambling sites. Other than that I've not seen much of him on the forums, and yours is the first comment I've read about him, positive or negative. I don't mine, so I tend to avoid any thread with BFL in its title.
Hi guys, its mem - the beloved & hated gambling list maintainer.
Dooglus FYI site operators from several sites contacted me over a month ago with concerns regarding your (and 2 other members) activities, mainly potential referral abuse.
I defended you saying I had seen nothing on the forums to demonstrate you were abusing anything but I did acknowledge that the descriptions of the refereed accounts and their activities did sound like someone purposefully generating accounts to collect referrals.
Dooglus FYI site operators from several sites contacted me over a month ago with concerns regarding your (and 2 other members) activities, mainly potential referral abuse.
I defended you saying I had seen nothing on the forums to demonstrate you were abusing anything but I did acknowledge that the descriptions of the refereed accounts and their activities did sound like someone purposefully generating accounts to collect referrals.
That's so weird. Are you sure it was me? I don't think I have ever used a referral code for anything except Sapphire, and the only two people who ever deposited using my Sapphire code are IRL friends of Deb's.
I've only gambled at Seals, Sapphire, Bitzino, SatoshiDice and MyriadCoins, and of those only Sapphire even offers a referral scheme as far as I know.
I signed up for some ridiculous "bitcoin pyramid scheme" over a year ago, and may have posted my URL for that somewhere once, but I doubt if that's what you're talking about, so you've got me stumped.
WTF??? Why are you giving any credit to anything mem says?
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol
Hi guys, its mem - the beloved & hated gambling list maintainer.
Dooglus FYI site operators from several sites contacted me over a month ago with concerns regarding your (and 2 other members) activities, mainly potential referral abuse.
I defended you saying I had seen nothing on the forums to demonstrate you were abusing anything but I did acknowledge that the descriptions of the refereed accounts and their activities did sound like someone purposefully generating accounts to collect referrals.
Dooglus FYI site operators from several sites contacted me over a month ago with concerns regarding your (and 2 other members) activities, mainly potential referral abuse.
I defended you saying I had seen nothing on the forums to demonstrate you were abusing anything but I did acknowledge that the descriptions of the refereed accounts and their activities did sound like someone purposefully generating accounts to collect referrals.
That's so weird. Are you sure it was me? I don't think I have ever used a referral code for anything except Sapphire, and the only two people who ever deposited using my Sapphire code are IRL friends of Deb's.
I've only gambled at Seals, Sapphire, Bitzino, SatoshiDice and MyriadCoins, and of those only Sapphire even offers a referral scheme as far as I know.
I signed up for some ridiculous "bitcoin pyramid scheme" over a year ago, and may have posted my URL for that somewhere once, but I doubt if that's what you're talking about, so you've got me stumped.
That being said, abusing a system is not cheating, though it is a sleazy practice at best. Just like if I and my girlfriend were to play side by side showing each other our hands during a poker tournament.
No, that's cheating.
Yes, that is collusion as previously stated, both are sleazy practices and imho as bad as each other.
In hindsight that sentence is not very clear.
editing for clarity.
That being said, abusing a system is not cheating, though it is a sleazy practice at best. Just like if I and my girlfriend were to play side by side showing each other our hands during a poker tournament.
No, that's cheating.
Hi guys, its mem - the beloved & hated gambling list maintainer.
Dooglus FYI site operators from several sites contacted me over a month ago with concerns regarding your (and 2 other members) activities, mainly potential referral abuse. EDIT: It was actually PSY that I had emails and PM's regarding, sorry Dooglus.
I defended you saying I had seen nothing on the forums to demonstrate you were abusing anything but I did acknowledge that the descriptions of the refereed accounts and their activities did sound like someone purposefully generating accounts to collect referrals.
That being said, abusing a system is not cheating, though it is a sleazy practice at best.
The site admins should take steps to ensure their systems are abuse proof, this has the unfortunate side effect of drastically reducing referral bonuses (which is what I believe SS is trying to avoid) but if the system is being constantly abused by a few bad eggs then its time to change (as the users will just create new accounts and use new IP's).
SS should ban as they see fit, personally were I suspecting the players of what they described Id simply eat the accounts value, blame hackers (you gots keylogged bro !!!) and let them cry about it on the forums.
My advice for sites wishing to avoid having dicks abuse your refferals is to only pay a % of the 1st N bitcoins lost for that account.
eg:
A refers B.
B cashes in X 20
B loses 5
b Cashes out Y 15
A receives ( X - Y ) * percent.
and I would only do this for the 1st N rounds (a round being cash in and cash out cycle).
ssaCEO - You have my continued support. Its a shame to see how this latest issue was handled but shit happens as they say. Might I recommend next time simply politely refusing service instead of feeding the trolls (if dooglus was trolling).
StrikeSapphire has a really professional finish to the site, the bonuses and freerolls are some of the best in the bitcoin community.
I defended you saying I had seen nothing on the forums to demonstrate you were abusing anything but I did acknowledge that the descriptions of the refereed accounts and their activities did sound like someone purposefully generating accounts to collect referrals.
That being said, abusing a system is not cheating, though it is a sleazy practice at best.
The site admins should take steps to ensure their systems are abuse proof, this has the unfortunate side effect of drastically reducing referral bonuses (which is what I believe SS is trying to avoid) but if the system is being constantly abused by a few bad eggs then its time to change (as the users will just create new accounts and use new IP's).
SS should ban as they see fit, personally were I suspecting the players of what they described Id simply eat the accounts value, blame hackers (you gots keylogged bro !!!) and let them cry about it on the forums.
My advice for sites wishing to avoid having dicks abuse your refferals is to only pay a % of the 1st N bitcoins lost for that account.
eg:
A refers B.
B cashes in X 20
B loses 5
b Cashes out Y 15
A receives ( X - Y ) * percent.
and I would only do this for the 1st N rounds (a round being cash in and cash out cycle).
ssaCEO - You have my continued support. Its a shame to see how this latest issue was handled but shit happens as they say. Might I recommend next time simply politely refusing service instead of feeding the trolls (if dooglus was trolling).
StrikeSapphire has a really professional finish to the site, the bonuses and freerolls are some of the best in the bitcoin community.
I'm totally fine with letting that thread stand if you don't want it removed.
Are you done now?
Are you done now?
I would prefer to be able to refute your claims in the thread in which you made them.
I also wish you would tell the truth, rather than this talk of me wanting threads deleted and electing to take my friends with me.
I'm totally fine with letting that thread stand if you don't want it removed.
Are you done now?
Are you done now?
The thread I'm replying to was temporarily unlocked then relocked again before I could reply, so I'm posting here instead. I hope that's acceptable. If the original thread is ever unlocked I'll move this post there.
So to be clear you're not retracting the part about me being a liar?
I have asked for no such thing. Where do you get this stuff from?
I didn't elect to take them with me, you asked me to. Remember the following?
I contacted my friends, giving them a link to this thread so they could see what was going on. I agree that it makes you look bad, but I don't think any of that is my doing.
I don't want the thread removed. I want it to stand as a warning to potential customers to the type of treatment they can expect to receive from your company.
It's quite incredible how badly you have managed this. If you had any doubts about the identity of the players at your site you should have spoken to them. I'm sure they would have been happy to video chat with you, send you copies of passports, driving licenses, or whatever.
To post an attacking rant like you did is simply unprofessional and offensive.
We do not know, and cannot know, the full truth about the dooglus / petrescuerz situation. We do not believe that petrescuerz is an imaginary person, but we also don't believe that she has always been in control of that account. Dooglus has asked me to retract the post calling him a liar, and her imaginary. I'll say that she is not imaginary. Whether she's the person who was playing on his computer is impossible to know.
So to be clear you're not retracting the part about me being a liar?
Beyond that, I'm reluctant to alter the history of this thread and would prefer it to be removed completely, as he and I have both asked the mods to do.
I have asked for no such thing. Where do you get this stuff from?
We have asked him to leave, and he's elected to take his friends, referrals, et. al. with him and send a lot of emails and chats to people criticizing me, which is his right.
I didn't elect to take them with me, you asked me to. Remember the following?
From now on, I'd prefer that you (plural) don't play. And if petrescuerz cashes out and you guys take your business elsewhere, that would be better for everybody. I don't want you or your friends around anymore.
I contacted my friends, giving them a link to this thread so they could see what was going on. I agree that it makes you look bad, but I don't think any of that is my doing.
I apologize for losing my temper in this thread. This is not however an invitation to keep trolling this thread, or an apology for what I've written here. Nor is this an invitation for anyone to come back to the site. He is simply not invited anymore, and we won't change our mind on the subject.
Dooglus would like this thread removed. I have no objection to that, and I have asked the moderators to do so if that's within their power.
I don't want the thread removed. I want it to stand as a warning to potential customers to the type of treatment they can expect to receive from your company.
It's quite incredible how badly you have managed this. If you had any doubts about the identity of the players at your site you should have spoken to them. I'm sure they would have been happy to video chat with you, send you copies of passports, driving licenses, or whatever.
To post an attacking rant like you did is simply unprofessional and offensive.
There are now hourly freerolls on Strike Sapphire, but nobody's playing them:
They run whenever 3 or more people sign up.
The prize pool is $0.50 each hour (or about 76 seals chips).
They run whenever 3 or more people sign up.
The prize pool is $0.50 each hour (or about 76 seals chips
). quick boost for strikesapphire
I tried telling you on your own thread, but you didn't seem to notice.
You have the max bet for blackjack wrong in your listing for sapphire. It's $15, not $5, for new players, and goes up to $25 once you've played a certain amount.
Edit: look, proof!
Thanks mate, fixing now
quick boost for strikesapphire
I tried telling you on your own thread, but you didn't seem to notice.
You have the max bet for blackjack wrong in your listing for sapphire. It's $15, not $5, for new players, and goes up to $25 once you've played a certain amount.
Edit: look, proof!
quick boost for strikesapphire - They currently have the best Keno implementation out of all sites - the animations are awesome.
It would be even more awesome with a lower min bet
Their bonus poker game is a lot of fun as well.
It would be even more awesome with a lower min bet
Their bonus poker game is a lot of fun as well.
Yes: Online gambling is legal in the UK and most of Europe.
This is bad advice. Proxy use is forbidden on StrikeSapphire. We take all reasonable measures to prevent it (as well as some unreasonable ones). Moreover, it's a violation of our TOS, and any account we believe to be using a proxy for the purpose of circumventing national laws will be frozen and ID verification required to unlock it.
He has to say that, otherwise his ass is on the line.Proxy use is ok as well.
This is bad advice. Proxy use is forbidden on StrikeSapphire. We take all reasonable measures to prevent it (as well as some unreasonable ones). Moreover, it's a violation of our TOS, and any account we believe to be using a proxy for the purpose of circumventing national laws will be frozen and ID verification required to unlock it.
Oh, he's not just "saying" it. He really means it.
Yes: Online gambling is legal in the UK and most of Europe.
This is bad advice. Proxy use is forbidden on StrikeSapphire. We take all reasonable measures to prevent it (as well as some unreasonable ones). Moreover, it's a violation of our TOS, and any account we believe to be using a proxy for the purpose of circumventing national laws will be frozen and ID verification required to unlock it.
He has to say that, otherwise his ass is on the line. Proxy use is ok as well.
This is bad advice. Proxy use is forbidden on StrikeSapphire. We take all reasonable measures to prevent it (as well as some unreasonable ones). Moreover, it's a violation of our TOS, and any account we believe to be using a proxy for the purpose of circumventing national laws will be frozen and ID verification required to unlock it.
Yes: Online gambling is legal in the UK and most of Europe.
This is bad advice. Proxy use is forbidden on StrikeSapphire. We take all reasonable measures to prevent it (as well as some unreasonable ones). Moreover, it's a violation of our TOS, and any account we believe to be using a proxy for the purpose of circumventing national laws will be frozen and ID verification required to unlock it.
Proxy use is ok as well.
This is bad advice. Proxy use is forbidden on StrikeSapphire. We take all reasonable measures to prevent it (as well as some unreasonable ones). Moreover, it's a violation of our TOS, and any account we believe to be using a proxy for the purpose of circumventing national laws will be frozen and ID verification required to unlock it.
I'm in the USSA too, but I wish you luck!!!
Can you not use a proxy or something?
This smells like the People's Republic of America
Actually I have no idea if it is currently allowed in the EU.
Most of EU and in UK gambling is ok.Proxy use is ok as well.Outside the US, things are a little more forgiving in terms of being free to gamble.I hope this helps you.
You can generate a qr code using javascript if you don't want to tax your server. That is what I do on coinsmack.com
You seem like a very professional website, and I wish you luck. Sadly, I live in the US.
Ok, that sounds reasonable to me. Thanks!
Could you please address my post?
I would sign up and play but I don't want to give out my name or any of my other info. Can I do that?
Sorry. I meant to address this. I knew I was forgetting something...
You do need to provide an email address to receive a verification email, as well as your country, which you have to answer honestly. Yes, you can sign up for an account with a fake name; StrikeSapphire doesn't freeze accounts for that. Many, if not most of our players use fake names without any problems. We do reserve the right to request identifying information from a player at any time prior to withdrawal of winnings, but we respect our patrons' wishes for anonymity as far as possible without creating problems for ourselves. Therefore the ID rule exists in our TOS only so it can be applied if absolutely necessary. To know whether it could apply to you, consider that we have three primary reasons for ever requesting identity verification:
1. If we think a player might be in the United States, and need to verify that they are not.
2. If we think a player has opened multiple accounts to stack poker tournaments in their favor.
3. If we have reason to think a player is under 18.
We attempt to make this process as invisible as possible to the player. So the short answer is, go ahead and sign up as anonymously as you'd like to. If you try to deposit and see a warning asking you to contact us first, then your account threw a red flag and caused us, in one way or another, to need more information before we allow you to place real-money bets. And again, such an occurrence is extremely rare for non-US players.
Could you please address my post?
I would sign up and play but I don't want to give out my name or any of my other info. Can I do that?
First of all, thanks for the great response from the community! It's nice to see some new players showing up to give the regulars a run for (our) money and liven things up. And thanks for the feedback in this thread.
Using a 3rd party to dynamically generate Bitcoin QR codes is dangerous. They could redirect the funds to their own address. Or, they could be compromised by someone who dirverts the funds.
This is a great, great idea. I wish we'd thought of it before. Since we're constantly updating and improving our software, we just pushed QR codes out in today's release! And yes - we're generating our own.
...
Proxy use violates our TOS and we make a good-faith effort to block it to the best of our ability. The site is currently available throughout most of the world, including the EU. Deposits are also not allowed from France or Italy.
Our lawyers tell us that while using Bitcoin may circumvent UIGEA and the Wire Act, it's not a defense against US state laws against gambling. This is not something we have any interest in messing with. There are a couple of other Bitcoin poker rooms and casinos who don't care, and who do operate in the US.
We think our site is original, interesting and transparent enough to attract mainstream players worldwide and encourage them to get their first Bitcoins, and that our success will have a knock-on effect that helps American-facing Bitcoin casinos, and vice-versa. The online casino world outside of Bitcoin is immense, and anything that attracts some of those players to the currency can only be good for all of us. We therefore don't see ourselves in direct competition with the US-facing sites. We wish them the best, but aren't comfortable taking the legal risks they do.
When funding with BTC it would be a lot easier for me if you showed a bitcoin QR-code so I could easily pay with my phone.
For an address like this "1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" it is as easy as adding the following HTML snippet to your funding page:
http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=8&d=1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" alt="qrcode" />
For an address like this "1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" it is as easy as adding the following HTML snippet to your funding page:
Using a 3rd party to dynamically generate Bitcoin QR codes is dangerous. They could redirect the funds to their own address. Or, they could be compromised by someone who dirverts the funds.
This is a great, great idea. I wish we'd thought of it before. Since we're constantly updating and improving our software, we just pushed QR codes out in today's release! And yes - we're generating our own.
...
Can you not use a proxy or something?
This smells like the People's Republic of America
Actually I have no idea if it is currently allowed in the EU.
This smells like the People's Republic of America
Actually I have no idea if it is currently allowed in the EU.
Proxy use violates our TOS and we make a good-faith effort to block it to the best of our ability. The site is currently available throughout most of the world, including the EU. Deposits are also not allowed from France or Italy.
You have one of the first bitcoin casinos, you take only bitcoins, and you don't accept US players?
Our lawyers tell us that while using Bitcoin may circumvent UIGEA and the Wire Act, it's not a defense against US state laws against gambling. This is not something we have any interest in messing with. There are a couple of other Bitcoin poker rooms and casinos who don't care, and who do operate in the US.
We think our site is original, interesting and transparent enough to attract mainstream players worldwide and encourage them to get their first Bitcoins, and that our success will have a knock-on effect that helps American-facing Bitcoin casinos, and vice-versa. The online casino world outside of Bitcoin is immense, and anything that attracts some of those players to the currency can only be good for all of us. We therefore don't see ourselves in direct competition with the US-facing sites. We wish them the best, but aren't comfortable taking the legal risks they do.
You have one of the first bitcoin casinos, you take only bitcoins, and you don't accept US players?
That's like
What is the incentive for your average player to play at your casino, to have all the tables to themselves?
That's like
What is the incentive for your average player to play at your casino, to have all the tables to themselves?
I would sign up and play but I don't want to give out my name or any of my other info. Can I do that?
When funding with BTC it would be a lot easier for me if you showed a bitcoin QR-code so I could easily pay with my phone.
For an address like this "1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" it is as easy as adding the following HTML snippet to your funding page:
http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=8&d=1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" alt="qrcode" />
For an address like this "1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" it is as easy as adding the following HTML snippet to your funding page:
Using a 3rd party to dynamically generate Bitcoin QR codes is dangerous. They could redirect the funds to their own address. Or, they could be compromised by someone who dirverts the funds.
However, the point still stands. The easier it is to fund your account the more likely people are going to use it. It is all about removing a barrier of entry. Since I am using my Android device for sending/receiving BTC it is quite cumbersome for me to grab the Bitcoin address and send to it. Adding a QR code allows all Android Bitcoin Wallet users, BitcoinSpinner users and BitPak users to fund their accounts with a click on their phone.
I'm in the USSA too, but I wish you luck!!!
Can you not use a proxy or something?
This smells like the People's Republic of America
Actually I have no idea if it is currently allowed in the EU.
You should put the link in the first post or at least in your signature or something:
https://strikesapphire.com/
https://strikesapphire.com/
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Activity: 588
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When funding with BTC it would be a lot easier for me if you showed a bitcoin QR-code so I could easily pay with my phone.
For an address like this "1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" it is as easy as adding the following HTML snippet to your funding page:
http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=8&d=1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" alt="qrcode" />
For an address like this "1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" it is as easy as adding the following HTML snippet to your funding page:
Using a 3rd party to dynamically generate Bitcoin QR codes is dangerous. They could redirect the funds to their own address. Or, they could be compromised by someone who dirverts the funds.
The same goes for address shorteners. Firstbits is a scam waiting to happen (not I don't think the owner is a scammer, just saying).
When funding with BTC it would be a lot easier for me if you showed a bitcoin QR-code so I could easily pay with my phone.
For an address like this "1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" it is as easy as adding the following HTML snippet to your funding page:
http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=8&d=1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" alt="qrcode" />
For an address like this "1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" it is as easy as adding the following HTML snippet to your funding page:
Using a 3rd party to dynamically generate Bitcoin QR codes is dangerous. They could redirect the funds to their own address. Or, they could be compromised by someone who dirverts the funds.
When funding with BTC it would be a lot easier for me if you showed a bitcoin QR-code so I could easily pay with my phone.
For an address like this "1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" it is as easy as adding the following HTML snippet to your funding page:
http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=8&d=1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" alt="qrcode" />
For an address like this "1ET7m6MWEQKpZm5kyT1ETMogFHqBNuMys3" it is as easy as adding the following HTML snippet to your funding page:
Are US citizens living abroad allowed to play?
I would think that the same rules apply to US Citizens doing drugs in other countries where it's not illegal.
Correctamundo
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
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Are US citizens living abroad allowed to play?
I would think that the same rules apply to US Citizens doing drugs in other countries where it's not illegal.
Are US citizens living abroad allowed to play?
We will bring legitimate, licensed Bitcoin gambling to the US when we know we can do that legally. I have every intention of doing it. Part of the discussion here is how to do that while ensuring the safety of all those involved.
Good luck! Wish I could play, but I'm in the US 
i'm in the same boat
And this is why we haven't broken the front page yet. We will bring legitimate, licensed Bitcoin gambling to the US when we know we can do that legally. I have every intention of doing it. Part of the discussion here is how to do that while ensuring the safety of all those involved.
would you mind, however, explaining what a freeroll is? i hadn't known what it meant until just recently and there are others who might not know either.
Okay. A freeroll is a tournament you can join for free, but where the winner(s) get a real money prize at the end. Lots of casinos run freerolls as promotions. Sometimes the prize isn't money, but a ticket to another tournament, one that other players have bought into for real money where the prize pool is bigger - this is called a satellite.
The expression comes from old time Las Vegas casinos that would give players free chips to roll on the craps tables.
It's obvious that so much work has gone into building this system. I'm really impressed with it.
All it's lacking is the punters!
strikesapphire has shown some real commitment and enthusiasm for bitcoin - c'mon bitcoiners - give 'em some lovin!
(Disclaimer: I have no affiliation whatsoever with strikesapphire - and I'm a shit poker player)
Thanks for saying that. We've really put a lot of work in and tried to stay ahead of the curve, and to be a safe, trustworthy business no matter what the Bitcoin weather forecast looked like. 8 months and counting... All it's lacking is the punters!
strikesapphire has shown some real commitment and enthusiasm for bitcoin - c'mon bitcoiners - give 'em some lovin!
(Disclaimer: I have no affiliation whatsoever with strikesapphire - and I'm a shit poker player)
Wish I could play, but I'm in the US
i'm in the same boat
I'm in the USSA too, but I wish you luck!!!
Wish I could play, but I'm in the US
It's obvious that so much work has gone into building this system. I'm really impressed with it.
All it's lacking is the punters!
strikesapphire has shown some real commitment and enthusiasm for bitcoin - c'mon bitcoiners - give 'em some lovin!
(Disclaimer: I have no affiliation whatsoever with strikesapphire - and I'm a shit poker player)
All it's lacking is the punters!
strikesapphire has shown some real commitment and enthusiasm for bitcoin - c'mon bitcoiners - give 'em some lovin!
(Disclaimer: I have no affiliation whatsoever with strikesapphire - and I'm a shit poker player)
You don't have to deposit, it costs you nothing, just come and play some free poker for real BTC.
odd, since that's the same technique my crack dealer used a while back before i started smoking.
[that's a joke]would you mind, however, explaining what a freeroll is? i hadn't known what it meant until just recently and there are others who might not know either.
BTW - 10 minutes before the second freeroll starts tonight.
I realize this isn't the right place to talk about gambling. But StrikeSapphire is on the brink of really tying together the Bitcoin world with the larger gambling world, worth billions a year in cashflow in and out... and right now we need your help.
We're not taking US players, and we're only taking Bitcoin deposits. We'll start taking other deposit methods sooner or later, but for the moment we're growing with Bitcoin. But we've made some amazing strides. We're the first Bitcoin casino to be listed with the "big boys", right alongside other deposit methods, on sites like casino-deposit.net and slotsdaily.com.
As it is, we're running the best freeroll poker games in the Bitcoin world. i.e., no cost to enter, no deposit necessary, just free Bitcoins to win, all the time. We've gotten a hard core of players who show up all the time, but we need more to make it exciting. Our freerolls go off around the clock, in several different denominations. You haven't heard much about it because we don't do a lot of advertising, but right now, we need you.
We need you to just come and play poker for some free Bitcoins. We have potential investors who'll be checking us out over the next few weeks, and we want our site to be busy. Help us impress them with the size of the business we've built around BTC, and the future that's obviously in this currency. You don't have to deposit, it costs you nothing, just come and play some free poker for real BTC. We have larger freerolls every night at 9pm and 11pm GMT. Help us bulk up.
Admins, I hope you'll let this ride for a day or so before you kick it down to gambling. I really want this to go out to all the community.
Thanks,
Josh
We're not taking US players, and we're only taking Bitcoin deposits. We'll start taking other deposit methods sooner or later, but for the moment we're growing with Bitcoin. But we've made some amazing strides. We're the first Bitcoin casino to be listed with the "big boys", right alongside other deposit methods, on sites like casino-deposit.net and slotsdaily.com.
As it is, we're running the best freeroll poker games in the Bitcoin world. i.e., no cost to enter, no deposit necessary, just free Bitcoins to win, all the time. We've gotten a hard core of players who show up all the time, but we need more to make it exciting. Our freerolls go off around the clock, in several different denominations. You haven't heard much about it because we don't do a lot of advertising, but right now, we need you.
We need you to just come and play poker for some free Bitcoins. We have potential investors who'll be checking us out over the next few weeks, and we want our site to be busy. Help us impress them with the size of the business we've built around BTC, and the future that's obviously in this currency. You don't have to deposit, it costs you nothing, just come and play some free poker for real BTC. We have larger freerolls every night at 9pm and 11pm GMT. Help us bulk up.
Admins, I hope you'll let this ride for a day or so before you kick it down to gambling. I really want this to go out to all the community.
Thanks,
Josh
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