Topic: Surfaced: Email conversation between Satoshi and Adam Back (Read 370 times)

That doesn't feel right, because if Satoshi really wanted to disconnect himself from the name "Wei Dai", he wouldn't have used it as the very first reference of the whitepaper. Perhaps, he really didn't know it. I mean, isn't it possible?

I know. That Wei Dai text looks unusually familiar, but does it contain incredible coincidences? I wouldn't say so. There's more than a reasonable doubt to me.

i have already posted the mails in the thread of GazetaBitcoin, which is actually the right one for me:
Bitcoin: The dream of Cypherpunks, libertarians and crypto-anarchists

and indeed, these are very important documents that are destined for eternity (as is BTCitcoin)
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/bitcoin-adam-backs-complete-emails-satoshi-nakamoto

Satoshi did a very great job in keeping himself anonymous as he did in investing bitcoin, just imagine if they knew him in person, government would have arrested him or try to make him bring the asset under their control , one thign saving bitcoin is the fact that its run by an open source developers and no one actually has control over anything.

Hmmm this story is getting interesting. If I may ask, do you think one cannot trace the email information, location as at the time the message was sent?. I think the information contained in his email might give a clue to who he is and the rest.
 In other way round , is it necessary to know who he is? . Do you think the government won't go after him.  In as much as the system built brings decentralization , I think is of no use. My opinion though

I don’t think they can track and get to know who the real Satoshi is through that email sent to Adam. Adam could also have no clue to it since Satoshi always wanted to remain anonymous and not known. With the knowledge of cryptography they had and how wide they’re in technical terms of this century’s digital technology, they can anonymously continue chatting with each other till day without the parties knowing the whereabouts or any traceable clue of each other if they chose to.


B-money has been in existence as history shows, so it could just be as you’ve assumed it, they didn’t want their involvement in the failed project or make Adam or others think that they got to build on the idea of the past project to make theirs work.

I'm happy that different people united against Craig Wright in the UK court set out to settle the matter of whether Craig is a fraud. It's lovely to see new evidence, something written by Satoshi, that was not public before. The style does sound like Satoshi's style to me (based on Bitcointalk posts by Satoshi). I suppose that's another good thing that the ongoing lawsuit can bring us: more information about what Satoshi discussed and with whom. These particular emails are quite short, though, so I'm not sure they're adding much.

I found two things interesting in these email exchanges between Back and satoshi:

- Satoshi apparently didn't know about B-Money at the time Adam asked them about it. Perhaps, it was on purpose. Someone with such knowledge surely made enough research about previous experiments with digital cash and came across B-Money. If they did know about it and pretended they didn't, the question is why? Perhaps it was one of their early failures, and satoshi didn't want that their involvement in the project to be known. Or I am just a conspiracy theorist.  

- Satoshi said about their Bitcoin paper that "we propose a situation." It can mean a group of people who worked on it or it was another trick of satoshi. Maybe something similar they did with the changes between British and American English. Sometimes they would write in American English, in other examples in British. 

Adam Back loves Bitcoin and he wants to protect it so he released his very old emails back and forth with Satoshi Nakamoto in court against Craig Wright trial.

Your post has something wrong. Adam Back only had some discussions with Satoshi Nakamoto through email but Adam did not know who is Satoshi Nakamoto. Even Hal Finney likely did not know real identity of Satoshi Nakamoto and about Hal Finney, there is conspiracy theory that Hal is Satoshi.

Jameson Lopp wrote a long blog post to prove Hal Finney is not Satoshi Nakamoto.

Hal Finney Was Not Satoshi Nakamoto.

He did and was one of the first persons to be contacted by Satoshi. So many things are unfolding and people are piecing the pieces together. This is not the first time I have heard that Satoshi emailed Adam Back. There was an interview I listed to on soundcloud about many years ago when he talked about this.

It is humbling that we have OGs like Adam who knew Satoshi. Personally, I do not think he is Satoshi. Maybe Hal but not him and definitely not Wright.

Yes, he was but Adam Back is not the one Satoshi Nakamoto once introduced the Bitcoin concept to before the official launch of BTC. It depends on whether each individual Satoshi had a conversation with before the BTC launch wants to keep the conversation private or not. Remember, he ^(Satoshi) once had a conversation and also asked for Theymos's assistance before the launch of BTC.

I was also under the impression that satoshi knew about Wei Dai's B-money even before he created the inner workings of bitcoin. He knew Adam Back's work, so it should follow that he will also recognize the implementations of B-money from Wei Dai but alas that's not the case.

It's just amazing to learn that after all these years, people connect b-money to bitcoin as one of its inspiration only to learn that bitcoin was already in the works before satoshi knew that it even existed.

I guess that since Satoshi, won't come out and disclaim any impersonation on his person, then we're free to let our imaginations to be doing the guess work, I say this because I like your angle to it, that Adam Black, might be Satoshi, he'll manifest physically as Adam, while his alias will remain the anonymous Satoshi Nakamoto, makes some sense. Anyways whoever Satoshi, is, it's good for the decentralized Bitcoin that he created, which is all about freedom and privacy, he should know that Bitcoin is doing great, being the best valuable digital asset for our investments.

I think the idea of if one wants to bestow value on something, one should make it scarce is what makes Satoshi's whereabouts mystical. The unknown presence makes whoever that's behind the mask a god. At this point, I ain't sure if he/they reveal identity anything will happen to Bitcoin as Bitcoin has already stood on its own. The worse that can happen will be a few days dip, and it goes back to its trajectory.

Was there any doubt about this?

In order for Faketoshi to be able to provide evidence, for this he had to be Satoshi Nakamoto.

When caught in a lie, they always try to justify themselves.

Did he publish this to fight against Faketoshi? Why didn't he do this earlier to clear all doubts? And are there ways to verify the authenticity of this correspondence other than screenshots?

Concealing facts is not the way to prove truthfulness, but the way to deceive.

No, they didn't gave any clue to me because I don't really want to know who Satoshi is or was, I'm happy to have Bitcoin and that's enough for me. I was talking about those people who are interested to find out the guy who has created Bitcoin and I believe you know who those guys are.

Those conversations gave them a clue that Satoshi might be a known person to Adam Back and that's why from now on they might try their best to gain as much information about Satoshi from that cypherpunk as they possibly could. I'm sure they will try to investigate about him in a passive way not an active way, they might use various social engineering tactics to gather information about Satoshi from Adam back.

Did these email conversations give a clue to you about who Satoshi can be?

He is a cypherpunk but he is a public figure too and he can be threatened, they can threaten him by killing his family members or killing himself. If he wasn't threatened before and nothing bad has happened to him, then I think everything is well and no one is actually interested in Satoshi. I think that Satoshi protected his identity very well and since they haven't discovered him till this day, there is slim to none chance that his identity will ever be revealed, even with the current investigation.

Something good coming our from this trial, and this is now part of the history.
One interesting observation from read this emails, Satoshi again used WE instead of I in Email #1:
''We Propose a solution to the double-spending problem...''
Some say this is academic language, but it could be another confirmation that Satoshi was not a single person, but a groups of people working on Bitcoin.

Martii Sirius Malmi just released their entire email history:
https://twitter.com/pete_rizzo_/status/1761040089075888292

I saw those emails as proofs that Craig Wright is actually a Faketoshi.

We saw emails from Satoshi Nakamoto to Hal Finney, to Adam Back but the Faketoshi did not show any proof to claim he is actually Satoshi Nakamoto.

He shared some a draft version of Bitcoin White paper but with edited time and when people detected it, he said he did it to secure his privacy.

There are two types of people, who want to keep things in secret like Adam Back. He kept those emails secretly in many years before sharing it when he saw it is necessary to fight against the Faketoshi.

Another type is the Faketoshi, want to prove he is someone actually is not him.

the site was not "satoshis". it was just a random anonymous email tool anyone can google and it pops up in search results and people then use it.. so just a random service that has been around pre satoshi, made by random people for random people..
and satoshi later found it and used it temporarily.. much like most people do when they want to send random email without annoying sign-ups..

no sherlock holmes needed beyond that

I am certain i have seen this message a long time now. Although am just wondering  why they wanted these message to remain private yet it go exposed to everyone. Although i suspected Adam black to be Satoshi writing a message to himself. So that when he goes anonymous he may see through the eyes of Adam Black.

Understood.

It's probably nothing but I find it interesting that anon email/privacy site was based in Japan....

Looks like it went offline around 2012 from the wayback cache but those email addresses he used were known to "crypto reporters" back in 2020

adam and satoshi never communicated on this forum because adam didnt sign up to this forum until 2013, long after satoshi left
satoshi's communication with adam was just for citation not creative collaborations

so nothing exciting.

the reason its become suddenly relevant. is due to the COPA vs CSW case where adams involvement, or lack there of in the early days needed clarity

Even with numerous leaked conversations of Satoshi and the privacy oriented minds nothing can still been done about his identity. I still wonder why people are so interested in knowing who Satoshi is.

In every meeting that occured with the popular cyberpunks I believe Satoshi was very much active there but his privacy is what amazes me, but maybe every one of the cyberpunk is Satoshi themselves. This privacy thing has it own way of operations

Wasn't aware of the domain he had used back then, registered in 2006 apparently

Im sure the sleuths have already been all over it but thought it was just bitcointalk he had used to communicate

Edit: Email 1 (@anonymousspeech.com) and 5 (@vistomail) are different email addresses hmmmm

Wonder what happened to Satoshi's OG anon email site...

https://web.archive.org/web/20070110120046/http://www.anonymousspeech.com/

Well, they can reveal their own identity but I don't see any of them revealing other people's identity plus they probably won't mind revealing themselves as they probably think that they could get their message across much more effective if they reveal themselves to the public plus these personalities that revealed their identity and have considered themselves as cypherpunks are probably just scratching the surface behind the advocacy towards a more private living and interaction on the online space. Satoshi probably attended and he probably used a different identity, that's the only logical explanation here, at least for me.

This isn't entirely new. At least we've already known prior to this that Adam Back had correspondence with Satoshi Nakamoto.

But I'm a little bit surprised that Satoshi was already ready for Bitcoin's whitepaper release when he/she/they learned of Wei Dei's B-money. I thought Wei Dei's early work played a vital role early on while Satoshi was still conceiving Bitcoin. If not for Adam Back, Bitcoin would have been created entirely oblivious of B-money.

I have this suspicion that Satoshi wasn't well-connected with the rest of the gang. Of course, there wasn't only The Cryptography Mailing List, that Satoshi was part of, where the development of an electronic cash is abundantly discussed. There were several other lists. Satoshi might not be part of many of those.


It has actually surprised me that a good number of solid Cypherpunks have actually revealed their identities. While they're strong advocates of privacy, they're not actually hiding or working in the shadows. The likes of Adam Back, Wei Dei, Hal Finney, Nick Szabo, and others are public. Even the Cypherpunk's Manifesto was written by Eric Hughes. Eric's co-founders of the Cypherpunk movement, Timothy May and John Gilmore, are also personally known.

And they're also not just communicating online and anonymously. They also had face-to-face meetings. I wonder if Satoshi, albeit unknown, turned up even once. Of perhaps one of them is indeed Satoshi.

Satoshi's email has changed several times, which suggests that he takes adequate measures to protect his personal information, and I do not think that just because of a screenshot of old conversations, they will find out who Satoshi is.

It is useful for the historical narrative of what the early days were like and how Satoshi was able to attract more ideas for his project.

Unlikely to happen in my opinion, Adam probably don't have a direct or physical contact with Satoshi so it's unlikely that they're going to get something out of him, plus he's a cypherpunk meaning that even if he does know about the identity of Satoshi, there's no way that he would reveal it because he's an advocate of cryptography and privacy and revealing the identity would be a serious problem or flaw in his principle which I don't think he'll break anytime soon just for everyone to know who's the person behind the identity, and the email that Satoshi used is basically anonymous so there's no tracing back to who's behind the email.

I guess Satoshi somehow had some good conversation with Adam Back. He's truly a cryptography genius so that's why Satoshi needed to introduce the concept of Bitcoin to him first. It's amazing to know that Adam back told Satoshi about B-money, which is kind of a strange thing.

I guess, those e-mail conversations could give a clue to many people that who Satoshi can be, but they still won't be able to find the mysterious creator of Bitcoin. I'm sure they'll try their best to force Adam to know more details about Satoshi based on those e-mails.

Thoughts?

Email #1: Adam and Satoshi discuss Bitcoin 4 months before its official launch: https://twitter.com/pete_rizzo_/status/1760718737286537526
Email #2: Adam's reply: https://twitter.com/pete_rizzo_/status/1760718740134445345
Email #3: Satoshi thanks Adam: https://twitter.com/pete_rizzo_/status/1760718742424535370
Email #4: Adam still hasn't read the white paper: https://twitter.com/pete_rizzo_/status/1760718744991465925
Email #5: The final email: https://twitter.com/pete_rizzo_/status/1760718747768087033