Topic: Surge protection (Read 861 times)

I assert nothing.  That is engineering fact using concepts such as superposition. However let's assume you need information based only in hearsay.  Well, this cite is famous for describing effective protection with numbers. But we will not provide those numbers. Instead we will only provide same logic that somehow proves a double conversion UPS does protection. That well understood quote from Polyphaser (an industry benchmark known only to the few who really understand surge protection) should be obvious.

That simply repeats, in subjective terms, what has always been known about a UPS - double conversion or otherwise.  Anyone can read its specification numbers.  That surge protection is obviously near zero.  And sold to naive consumers as 100% protection - because those consumers routinely ignore facts and numbers.

You have zero reasons to believe a UPS provides any effective protection.  That double conversion UPS is a direct connection from the surge source to electronics.  Since you did not learn basic and relevant concepts (current source, equipotential, conductivity, impedance, etc), then you are easily scammed with myths that are technically bogus.

What is a battery in an AC-DC-AC conversion?  A  direct short - had you learned basic electrical concepts taught to first year engineers.  That is the point.  They easily scam using half truths and lies - that no technically trained person would fall for.

Please post one specification number that proves any double conversion UPS provides that protection.  They know a majority of adults are easily scammed by always ignoring specification numbers.

 No, but it's possible with a big enough surge to overload the circuitry and pass part of the surge along, or for the voltage to just jump the isolation.

 20k volts isn't exactly HIGH for a lighting strike.

 BTW, the APC unit linked in the message above this isn't double conversion, but while a double conversion UPS (don't think APC makes ANY of those) can probably soak a bigger surge without passing it, even double conversion has LIMITS to how big a surge it can soak.

no he is telling you read what your ups is rated for in terms of joules.  A direct hit from lightning can be higher then 100000 joules.

here is a decent ups


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842301289&ignorebbr=1

it is rated for 1800 joules  so if you suffer from a lightning strike  1800 joules is not going to cut it


here is a whole house at the panel protector>
http://www.amazon.com/Square-Schneider-Electric-HEPD80-Electronics/dp/B00CONA1OQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441495077&sr=8-1&keywords=Whole-House+Surge+Protector

you assert that any surge seen on input of such UPS coming through AC->DC->AC transformation survives and comes out in original form??

some good shots.

I am repairing my neighbors cable connection.  many years ago they had a roof top 'free' antenna.

Cablevision was installed. No drop box and they drilled a new hole ½ inch above the ground and 2 feet from the gutter drain pipe.  
Which means rotted sill. To make matters worse he switched to direct tv and I think they did not ground his dish.  So I will need to do a few of these

http://www.summitsource.com/images/products/GRS274.jpg

 None of which provide any protection vs. INPUT power surges, those are all on the OUTPUT of the power supply protecting it from abnormal OUTPUT conditions and offering some protection to the gear connected to the PS for power from some failures OF the power supply.

 Personally, I generally go for APC or Square D equipment (all my UPSs happen to be APC, all my breaker panels for decades have been Square D) but there's plenty of good surge protector makers out there.

 DO keep in mind that some forms of surge protection DEGRADE every time they have to soak a hit - and some hits are small enough your equipment never notices, but it still does some degradation of the protector.
 Multi-stage surge protection tends to reduce this issue a lot by using one or more early stage(s) that don't degrade (but offers less protection) to limit the surge input to the stages that DO degrade, but even those aren't immune to the issue.

Lightning can be 20,000 amps.  So a minimally sufficient protector is 50,000 amps.  Some Square D protectors may be smaller meaning two might be necessary.

Electric company only inspects grounds for human safety.  Grounding for transistor safety means meeting and exceeding what safety codes call for.  For example, a solid bare copper wire connects breaker box to earth.  If that wire goes up over the foundation and down to earth, then it is too long, has sharp bends, and is not separated from other non-grounding wires.  A low impedance connection means that wire must be shorter and not have any sharp bends - to made an earth ground connection sufficient.

BTW, above is only the 'secondary' protection layer.  Each layer is only defined by what actually does protection - an earth ground - not a protector.  Homeowners are encouraged to also inspect their 'primary' protection layer.  A picture demonstrates what to inspect:
   http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

ditto. square d whole house suppressor.

have the electric co check the ground.

westom posts all over the internet on many forums about surge protection.

a whole house protector and proper ground of the mains usually works.

I have had lightenting hit my home and everything survived due to my whole house protector and my 3x grounded main box.

Those standard protection circuits are for other anomalies.  All PSUs have filters and surge protection for AC mains.  An incoming surge on that Monster protector was also outgoing into the attached computer.  Protection inside the PSU was so robust as to make that tiny surge irrelevant.  But that same tiny surge also destroyed even tinier protection inside the Monster.

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate.  How many joules did the Monster claim to absorb?  Hundreds?  Thousand?  IOW near zero protection.

Protection means no surge is anywhere inside a building.  If anything needs protection, then everything needs protection.  Facilities that cannot have damage properly earth a 'whole house' protector.  A solution proven by over 100 years of science and experience.  And little unknown to a majority only educated by advertising, hearsay, and speculation.

Ethernet cables already have robust protection - typically rated at 2000 volts.  What can overwhelm that protection?  Destructive surges typically occur maybe once every seven years.  And must be connected low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth BEFORE entering the building.  Otherwise that current will go hunting for earth destructively via computers - especially on AC - even on ethernet ports.

BTW double conversion UPS often have less protection than power strips.  Anyone can read its specification numbers.  Most do not.  How many joules does that double conversion UPS claim to absorb?  Notice a tiny number.

When i got into bitcoin mining with the S1 i was using ethernet over power adapters which said surge protectors screwed up the signals. I moved my router and ran ethernet cables round the house 6 months ago with my S3's and didn't think about surge protection again. Think I will do some homework on individual socket surge protection.

I do have to admit I feel a bit stupid not knowing that PSU could have a built in filter. All my miners run off EVGA gold PSU's, mostly 1,300 and 1,000 watt units. I just looked them up on the EVGA site and all my PSU's have:

"Heavy-duty protections, including OVP (Over Voltage Protection), UVP (Under Voltage Protection), OCP (Over Current Protection), OPP (Over Power Protection), and SCP (Short Circuit Protection)"

So I guess having everything plugged into a surge protector is not really doing much. After doing some research on the double conversion UPS units you mentioned, it seems the only ones big enough to handle the type of wattage i am using will cost $2,000-$1,500.  Unfortunately i cannot afford to buy one of those for each circuit i am running my miners on    Hell I would need one for each of the S7's i just bought, that's basically doubling the price of each miner, lol.

I do have a couple Monster MP HTS3600 MKII. I used those on my home theater gear, would they be of any benefit to mining? I really don't see how they would be any different for mining than a regular surge protector.

Good PSUs have built-in filters. Real protection is only in double convertion UPSes.

I am curious as to what everybody uses out there for surge protection on their minors.  I used some monster green power surge protectors when I was doing GPU mining. Unfortunately a couple of those burnt out and I had to use some old ones instead. I have been using those same old surge protectors and monster ones that did not fry on my ASIC minors.  I just ordered some S7's and figured I would get some new surge protectors for those and my S5's.

I just ordered some Tripp Lite surge protectors and I hope they do the trick.  Has anyone use these before?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812120564

I would love to hear what other people are using out there with good results.