Topic: Switzerland is thinking about erasing debt-money ! (Read 272 times)

I think it's a nice way to conduct politics. It encourages citizens to be well versed on such topics and also to learn to abstain from voting if it is not something that they feel they are well enough informed about. It's better to put things to the people and understand their opinions instead of telling them that you know best and they should just listen to you, that approach only breeds discontent.

Buying real estate with Bitcoin is still extremely rare and anecdotal. There isn't a big enough of an offer for it to be worth it. Chances are you can find a better deal paying with fiat than the few options you would have paying with BTC.

I saw the news of some properties being sold on Dubai but I doubt any of us here want to buy property on there.

Once we see the more regular countries taking BTC payments for real estate it will still remain something weird. Getting into real estate without a deep offer is not a good idea, you want to visit as many properties as possible before buying anything.

You underestimate the knowledge of people. It might be true in certain countries that matters such as monetary policy are best left to economists. However, in countries like Switzerland, people can and do understand the intricacies of the working of the financial system. They have a view on these matters and it is best to find that out through a referendum. Once the government gets the pulse of the people, it can frame policies accordingly.

Every petition that collects 100 000 signatures in Switzerland  in 18 months will have a shot in a referendum.
The petition was launched in 2015 and it didn't make any major fuss.

People in Switzerland are different, they are not that easy to sway from their path. I've seen a lot of people with long faces when they voted against the basic income or when the taxation of not green energy received the biggest "no" percentage in history.

This one has slim chances to pass, even the people behind the initiative admit that this is just "a step"...
https://www.vollgeld-initiative.ch/english/

Switzerland wants to be cashless society that's why they want to be more futuristic in a way that there country will practice this kind of system. I'm sure all neighboring countries will follow Switzerland for this kind of system.

You already can buy real estate and such with Bitcoin without paying a lot of taxes, you just have to find the right seller. Regarding $1m Bitcoin - maybe in a few years if bitcoin doesn't get replaced by another crypto currency.

This is disconcerting, even though in a positive way. Alas, I don't think it will really change anything. Time ago they have made a referendum to back money with gold, but they've lost it. But this time - who knows. We'll see...

The way their referendums work it will be a public decision and not a government one so when you say public it really will be the public. It's one of the great ways that the Swiss become so well educated, because they have such a large input in to decisions.

I also have some doubts about this idea. First of all CHF always was one of the safest currencies. Investors from the other countries always had positive sights on it which means that their currency is usually growing in price (i.e. it creates deflation). If you can at least understand something about economics then you should understand that  deflation harms the county's export. In this case "printing" money is not that bad.
On the other side it seems to be very stupid idea to make referendum on such topic.  Some people don't even know how to use their own money and how works the monetary system of their country. There is nothing bad here but they won't be able to make a right choice.

I don't think it will pass either. But at least they will have had a debate in public about the meaning of money and the meaning of debt.

Well, maybe I got it all wrong, but from what I understood they would only remove the option to "create money" through debt by "local banks", but the Central Bank would still be able to do it. This would result in more power for governments that control the central bank and nothing else. The fiat system would still be the same, but more controlled. Maybe this would reduce the risk for scams from banks, that we do see from time to time, but the economy would still be kept by issuing debt. The profit would go to governments instead of banks, and that might bee good (if they are not corrupt), but this is still not better than crypto in any way in my opinion.

At first I saw the title and was ecstatic but upon reading the article it really won't solve much because it states:

Their proposal is the separation of money and debt, requiring commercial banks to no longer create money out of nothing. Reserving that function to the Central Bank alone.

Not really going to change much if the Central bank can still do that exact function despite the fact that commercial banks can't.

This could be doomed to failure.

Switzerland is home to swiss banks who are known to provide tax shelters for the wealthy. A large part of switzerlands economy and business model depends upon them incentivizing means for the wealthy to avoid paying the taxes everyone else must pay. As such they are far from being objective or reliable in this analysis. The most likely scenario here is they will use this as a platform to discredit ideas of money and debt being separated having value as a means of benefiting society.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, does anyone know how houses were financed before fractional reserve banking was invented? How did people afford real estate or homes in an era when the gold standard was utilized or gold and silver were the most commonly used methods of payment?

I think there are many interesting points and questions involved in this topic. Unfortunately I do not think we will ever see a legitimate attempt made to answer those questions or to disseminate information which might benefit society or civilization at large. At most all we will see from this is lpropaganda and political spin designed to influence people into supporting fractional reserve banking, tax shelters for the wealthy and other things which redistribute wealth to one percenters.

This proposal is for putting an end to fractional reserve banking. In today’s globalised world, I am not sure how it will work. Swiss banks will be at a disadvantage if they do not follow a fractional reserve model while others do. A lot of banks operate through branches, so it may be impossible to say that a particular branch is not following fractional reserve banking.

Switzerland always has many referendums like these. Im sure that eventually there will be a Bitcoin referendum and if it doesn't pass the first time, it will pass in the future. Switzerland will become a Bitcoin safe haven in which you can go and buy real estate there and life comfortably without losing most of your hard earned money in massive ass taxes.

I wish I could buy a house in Switzerland. I would most likely not live there tho, things are too expensive, but I would buy it so I can make money out of it. When BTC goes to $1,000,000 I will be able to permanently live on there if I want to.

I don't think this will pass. The way Swiss citizens get to vote on such things is really wonderful to see but they're an educated bunch and I think ultimately they'll realise that this helps to stimulate the economy. With the strict regulations they have in place such as Basel III and the reserve requirements etc it should be safe to assume that banks can operate with relatively little risk and still stimulate the economy through that.

This is incredible !

They will hold a referendum about the separation of money and debt, requiring commercial banks to no longer create money out of nothing !

There is hope !

See: https://www.trustnodes.com/2018/02/19/switzerland-hold-historic-referendum-sovereign-money