Taking profits & tax. | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 17, 2025, 10:48:51 AM

Unfortunately it seems that the UK is one of worst places for taxes but i can't do anything about that, can't just leave the country.

Like you say, we pay 20% tax on our salary , we then shouldn't have to pay a further 24% our cyrpto profits after we take the risk investing in but that is the current situation we find ourselves in over here.

That's life. Death and taxes as we say are the two permanent things on this world. We're just fortunate if we've made some profits and look at the brighter side because you're being taxed. But the government doesn't care about your shit if you don't even made any money and your portfolio lost. So, that's the kind of motivation that you'll get from here and whether you like it or not, you complain or not, profits from crypto will still be taxed. The rich have some loopholes but middle to poor people has to play by the rules and we're only living to obey them.

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Quote from: Porfirii on January 16, 2025, 01:44:14 PM

I'm not sure about how it works in the UK, but in other countries taxable events happen even without withdrawing. Example: you bought Bitcoin at 50k in 2024, swap it for ETH at 90k in 2025, and swap it again after a dip for 50k Bitcoin. You didn't withdraw and you didn't get any profit from your transactions, but in some jurisdictions you would be obliged to pay taxes on the "fictional" profit of 40k in 2025.

Don't assume that you know how taxes ok cryptos work. As said before, rules change constantly, and sometimes they make no sense so don't rely in common sense either.

Edit: and back to your question, in my country you'd have to pay the proportional part of the profits even if you only withdraw 2k, like Findingnemo said. Inform yourself well before doing anything, chances are that it is the same in yours.

I believe taxation varies from nation to nation and each nation has its own laws governing taxation and possibly different punishment for failure to remit taxes to the government. However, in my country, the government takes tax virtually on everything, you pay tax for withdrawal, you pay for any transaction irrespective of who you are, employed or unemployed etc. but currently, they looking into taxing Crypto transactions which have been a long battle between them and binance last year for which they want Binance to pay tax for all the p2p transactions that has taken place on their platform.

Anyways tax laws varies by nations and the best thing OP can do is to see a professional in knowing how the taxation in their country works so he could get a better knowledge of how it is and not think anything less of expectations.

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 17, 2025, 10:48:51 AM

Unfortunately it seems that the UK is one of worst places for taxes but i can't do anything about that, can't just leave the country.

Like you say, we pay 20% tax on our salary , we then shouldn't have to pay a further 24% our cyrpto profits after we take the risk investing in but that is the current situation we find ourselves in over here.

I'll be honest with you. If I were in your shoes, I would rather move to another country or do something else where low taxes are applied or choose another career/path. There is no way in hell I'll be paying 24% in taxes. I am the one taking risks, so I should be the one getting benefits. If it were some casual income source, like a corporate jobs, then that's a different case. But when it comes to Crypto, all of us knows how volatile and unpredictable it can become.

Now that I see your situation. I am just grateful that our government doesn't regular crypto space that strictly.

Btw, @OP, have you got answer for your original question? I mean how does the tax is applied? Is it the 9k capital or the profits you made using the 9k?

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 02:46:30 AM

With the bull run expected to heat up in the coming months I want to fully understand when it comes to paying tax on my crypto as I have not had to do this before, it’s my first bull run. I am based in the UK.

Op which of the bull market /run are you expecting? We are already on a Bull Run. As the price has not declined to -$60,000 and it is +$90,000 it is on the bull market and all what we can say is rising of the price to a new higher price. And for the rise up r bitcoin price, we have seen people predicted different rate after the inauguration of Donald Trump as the President of America. Some predicted $250,000, $150,000 and so on.

Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 02:46:30 AM

I have been investing in crypto just shy of 3 years now and up till now I have been mainly buying with the odd bit of taking profits in the last 3 or 4 months.

I have a question , let’s say for example I have invested £250 per month for 3 years which is £9k total. Does that mean I can withdraw £9k back to my bank before I start paying tax as anything under £9k back to my bank would not be profit from the amount I’ve invested?

For example if I was to withdraw £2k back to my bank today, because that is below the £9k I have invested overall I am not in profit yet so shouldn’t have to pay tax on it?

It is only when I will have withdrawn £9k total that I would then start having to paying tax?

I don't how exchanges operate in your country but as for mine, in the process of selling they take their tax at once before even the buyer paid you. So there is no saying that you will pay tax separately. If you are withdrawing £9k equivalent of BTC, it is not the exact £9k equivalent will be deposited to your bank because the exchange would deduct their service fee as the tax payment fee. But countries operate differently.

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 02:46:30 AM

With the bull run expected to heat up in the coming months I want to fully understand when it comes to paying tax on my crypto as I have not had to do this before, it’s my first bull run. I am based in the UK.

Paying you taxes aren't the same in every country so lookup what the laws say in your country and you'll get a clue on how to pay your taxes. But taxes are only paid on gains and not capitals.

If your country requires you to pay taxes on the capitals don't, because that's stealing. You make $100, your taxes should be on the $$100 and not the capital that you invested plus the profits.

When I hear about people paying taxes like this on crypto profits I can't relate because that isn't required in my country and it shouldn't be for a DEX currency. The government already have enough things that they're taxing us over here and adding tasks on crypto when they haven't embraced it would just be wickedness.

I read sometime again about them asking CEX to add taxes but don't think that's what you mean here. Paying taxes voluntary is noble so I applaud you for this act and awareness that you just created with this thread.

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Quote from: DYING_S0UL on January 17, 2025, 10:23:53 AM

I was wondering how do they even regulate these things. I mean, does the exchange have to comply with each countries authority and give out customers profit loss assets info in order to operate? I am not familiar with this crypto tax because I don't need to pay any!

Because where is live, crypto is banned there. Despite the ban, the authority doesn't regulate this sector much, and we have been involved in this sector ever since. And of course we don't pay taxes. Whenever I cash out some funds, I always use the P2P and a very small amount but never cash out directly into any banks.

And paying 24% in tax seems too much IMO. That's my hard earned money. I would rather move to a crypto friendly country like Singapore if I can than pay them a penny. The government already adds taxes to everything…

Unfortunately it seems that the UK is one of worst places for taxes but i can't do anything about that, can't just leave the country.

Like you say, we pay 20% tax on our salary , we then shouldn't have to pay a further 24% our cyrpto profits after we take the risk investing in but that is the current situation we find ourselves in over here.

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I was wondering how do they even regulate these things. I mean, does the exchange have to comply with each countries authority and give out customers profit loss assets info in order to operate? I am not familiar with this crypto tax because I don't need to pay any!

Because in my place, crypto is banned. Despite the ban, the authority doesn't regulate this sector much, and we have been involved in this sector ever since. And of course we don't pay taxes. Whenever I cash out some funds, I always use the P2P and a very small amount but never cash out directly into any banks.

And paying 24% in tax seems too much IMO. That's my hard earned money. I would rather move to a crypto friendly country like Singapore if I can than pay them a penny. The government already adds taxes to everything…

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 02:46:30 AM

With the bull run expected to heat up in the coming months I want to fully understand when it comes to paying tax on my crypto as I have not had to do this before, it’s my first bull run. I am based in the UK.

I have been investing in crypto just shy of 3 years now and up till now I have been mainly buying with the odd bit of taking profits in the last 3 or 4 months.

I have a question , let’s say for example I have invested £250 per month for 3 years which is £9k total. Does that mean I can withdraw £9k back to my bank before I start paying tax as anything under £9k back to my bank would not be profit from the amount I’ve invested?

For example if I was to withdraw £2k back to my bank today, because that is below the £9k I have invested overall I am not in profit yet so shouldn’t have to pay tax on it?

It is only when I will have withdrawn £9k total that I would then start having to paying tax?

Taxation rules are different for different countries and instead of asking it in a global public forum you should consult a tax expert from your region who can guide you correctly based on rules at your place.
Usually, the tax is applicable on the profits made from the difference of buying price and selling price.
If you only withdraw a portion of the amount then you will have to calculate the proportionate amount of tax for which you are withdrawing the amount.
Then comes the deductions and stuff and depending on your country you can claim those deductions if applicable.
Hence the reason why it is best to get guidance from your regional tax expert.

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 02:46:30 AM

With the bull run expected to heat up in the coming months I want to fully understand when it comes to paying tax on my crypto as I have not had to do this before, it’s my first bull run. I am based in the UK.

I have been investing in crypto just shy of 3 years now and up till now I have been mainly buying with the odd bit of taking profits in the last 3 or 4 months.

I have a question , let’s say for example I have invested £250 per month for 3 years which is £9k total. Does that mean I can withdraw £9k back to my bank before I start paying tax as anything under £9k back to my bank would not be profit from the amount I’ve invested?

For example if I was to withdraw £2k back to my bank today, because that is below the £9k I have invested overall I am not in profit yet so shouldn’t have to pay tax on it?

It is only when I will have withdrawn £9k total that I would then start having to paying tax?

My suggestion would be... Consult a professional in finance to guide you right. Otherwise, there will be too many advices and opinions from around the world which will either get you confused or mislead you.

If you get misled, you might become a victim. And I am sure you don't want to get into any tax troubles. It could be distracting in some kinda way.

As a total newbie on this space and platform I wish you the very best of luck on this. And sincerely hope that you keep growing too.

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 17, 2025, 06:33:28 AM

To be honest this was a pretty basic question and I thought there would have at least been someone with the experience of doing their own taxes in the last bull run who would have a definite answer but looks like most of us don’t know for sure.
~snip~

You've been asking the same question for years and clearly don't respect the answers of other members who say that each country has its own rules for taxing cryptocurrencies. I know exactly everything I need to know about paying taxes if I sell cryptocurrencies in the country where I live, but that can't help you.

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Quote from: avp2306 on January 17, 2025, 05:53:23 AM

Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 02:46:30 AM

For example if I was to withdraw £2k back to my bank today, because that is below the £9k I have invested overall I am not in profit yet so shouldn’t have to pay tax on it?

It is only when I will have withdrawn £9k total that I would then start having to paying tax?

Much better to consult a tax expert so that you will get a good answer to your question since if you ask this here for sure you will only get speculation or pure personal opinions coming from those people who don't actually know the real situation.

Also with that you will get a peace of mind then next time you would already know what to do and don't need any random opinions from people online.

Its good that you are paying attention with your taxes but choose to discuss it with right people.

To be honest this was a pretty basic question and I thought there would have at least been someone with the experience of doing their own taxes in the last bull run who would have a definite answer but looks like most of us don’t know for sure.

I have kept track of how much I have invested over the last 3 years so I will just work out the profit when I do cash out this year and then pay the tax on that profit.

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 02:46:30 AM

For example if I was to withdraw £2k back to my bank today, because that is below the £9k I have invested overall I am not in profit yet so shouldn’t have to pay tax on it?

It is only when I will have withdrawn £9k total that I would then start having to paying tax?

Much better to consult a tax expert so that you will get a good answer to your question since if you ask this here for sure you will only get speculation or pure personal opinions coming from those people who don't actually know the real situation.

Also with that you will get a peace of mind then next time you would already know what to do and don't need any random opinions from people online.

Its good that you are paying attention with your taxes but choose to discuss it with right people.

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I am glad that I am not from those countries where I have to pay taxes on my crypto gains. I have posted several times saying I am glad that crypto is banned in my country and the government is not doing anything for now. They could take action against the users, but they are not doing anything. So, for now, I feel like they are not going against the Bitcoiners. Since they did not legalize Bitcoin, they could not ask for taxes on the crypto users. Paying 30% taxes feels like getting robbed.

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Every country has a different way of taxation and that's why you should go and ask a taxation professional, or an accountant to where you are living right now. Maybe a couple of minutes of consultation and some bucks of paying them for their professional service and consultation won't hurt that much your pocket to have an idea about the proper way of paying your tax from your crypto profits. Or go to your local board if you ever have it and have some survey on how the other crypto folks in your local did it.

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I'm not sure about how it works in the UK, but in other countries taxable events happen even without withdrawing. Example: you bought Bitcoin at 50k in 2024, swap it for ETH at 90k in 2025, and swap it again after a dip for 50k Bitcoin. You didn't withdraw and you didn't get any profit from your transactions, but in some jurisdictions you would be obliged to pay taxes on the "fictional" profit of 40k in 2025.

Don't assume that you know how taxes ok cryptos work. As said before, rules change constantly, and sometimes they make no sense so don't rely in common sense either.

Edit: and back to your question, in my country you'd have to pay the proportional part of the profits even if you only withdraw 2k, like Findingnemo said. Inform yourself well before doing anything, chances are that it is the same in yours.

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In every country the tax enforcement is different and its designation. So in my opinion to find out can be discussed in a local board. But if you want to know the amount of tax in each country, discuss in the relevant board and the contents of the topic are made in the direction in accordance with your intentions.
We have two types of taxes that are applied to crypto transactions and their designation is also different.

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 02:46:30 AM

With the bull run expected to heat up in the coming months I want to fully understand when it comes to paying tax on my crypto as I have not had to do this before, it’s my first bull run. I am based in the UK.

I have been investing in crypto just shy of 3 years now and up till now I have been mainly buying with the odd bit of taking profits in the last 3 or 4 months.

I have a question , let’s say for example I have invested £250 per month for 3 years which is £9k total. Does that mean I can withdraw £9k back to my bank before I start paying tax as anything under £9k back to my bank would not be profit from the amount I’ve invested?

For example if I was to withdraw £2k back to my bank today, because that is below the £9k I have invested overall I am not in profit yet so shouldn’t have to pay tax on it?

It is only when I will have withdrawn £9k total that I would then start having to paying tax?

I don't really understand and don't follow the developments regarding tax policies in the UK, because I am not part of its population. However, I see that there is a UK government website that explains it in detail and the last updated on 13 January 2025 , and even said that you can report when you experience a loss, for more complete information you can go directly to the site:

Gov.uk - Check if you need to pay tax when you sell

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 06:30:41 AM

So I’m right in thinking that I wouldn’t have to pay any tax until i have withdrawn the same amount I have invested?

With my example, I’ve invested $9k and if I only make 3 withdrawals of say $2k, $3k and $1k , I wouldn’t have to pay any tax on them as that only comes to $6k which is $3k less than my total over all investment?

It is only once I have withdrawn the same amount or more that I have invested overall that I have to worry about paying tax?

Nope, HMRC doesn't allow you to report it as only capital. Every time you sell crypto holding will be considered as selling the profit included so the capital amount becomes irrelevant and you only need to calculate whether you are in profits or loss. If you withdraw 2K and you made 500 from it as profit then that 500 is taxable event and you need to pay taxes as per the rate.

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I just thought there would be many of you who have been in crypto for a good 5 years or more who would be able to answer these questions i have thats all.

I get the laws change every year but the basics still the same.

I am going to have to look into a professional soon as just want to be ready when it comes to selling in the next 6 months or so.

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OP, isn't it better you consult a professional who could properly guide you on how to go about your tax payment? There is nothing bad bringing up this here but at least you would listen to others' ideas and opinions and have in mind what they might be saying based on their geographical location as they have experienced in their various countries different from yours. I have also come to understand that exchanges do give the government the list of assets held by their nationals to properly calculate the tax to be paid by each holder so that not anything is mixed up or missed. You can read the material through the link provided by Lucius for a proper understanding since you are talking about the UK.

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 02:46:30 AM

~snip~
I have been investing in crypto just shy of 3 years now and up till now I have been mainly buying with the odd bit of taking profits in the last 3 or 4 months.

In those 3 years, you've asked the same question you're asking now several times. As others have already written, you could have resolved your doubts and concerns by contacting your tax office because they know best.

Haven't you learned anything from this topic you opened a little less than 1 year ago?

CRYPTO PROFITS & UK TAX

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So I’m right in thinking that I wouldn’t have to pay any tax until i have withdrawn the same amount I have invested?

With my example, I’ve invested $9k and if I only make 3 withdrawals of say $2k, $3k and $1k , I wouldn’t have to pay any tax on them as that only comes to $6k which is $3k less than my total over all investment?

It is only once I have withdrawn the same amount or more that I have invested overall that I have to worry about paying tax?

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Quote from: NotATether on January 16, 2025, 05:10:19 AM

Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 03:03:59 AM

I know being from the UK my tax is 24% which isn’t the best but it could be worse and happy to pay it when I have to.

I will just start paying tax then only once I have withdrawn back to my bank what I have put in over the last 3 years.

Keep in mind though that some exchanges like Coinbase report your entire crypto balance on the platform to the government tax agencies, so they might be able to see if you are hiding some more coins from them unless you only use the exchange for withdrawing.

This is exactly why you should be asking this here. It’s not just tax but cryptocurrency tax. It has a different deduction to it as opposed to the norms though, it works almost the same. It’s important to get the bases to this right than trying to cut corners which can result in tax evasion, a punishable offense by law.

Not having to pay any crypto taxes first hand, the much I’ve read talks about your profit being taxable and not your investment. If you have invested a total of $9k, that’s still within your capital. It doesn’t consider your profit and so, it shouldn’t be taxed. Just as you don’t tax shares that haven’t produced any profit.

Only when there is a profit of let’s say, you invested $9k and your balance has risen to $15k which is a $6k increment with $6k being your profit. The taxable amount here becomes the $6k.

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 04:03:38 AM

Surely there are many who have been in crypto many years though who know answers and can give advice.

This time in 3 years there will be others who will be doing their taxes for the first time and I will be happy to confirm any questions they will have then.

Tax laws change constantly man. What might have been 3 years ago doesn't mean it's good advice now. And whatever is the proper tax process now might not be good in 3 years.
As crypto adoption grows, governments see that they can get more and more taxes from people, so they constantly change the laws to suit them, not you.

Go to a tax attorney, ask what's the process NOW. It might be different even tomorrow

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Quote from: NotATether on January 16, 2025, 05:10:19 AM

Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 03:03:59 AM

I know being from the UK my tax is 24% which isn’t the best but it could be worse and happy to pay it when I have to.

I will just start paying tax then only once I have withdrawn back to my bank what I have put in over the last 3 years.

So that means you're only paying tax on the withdrawals.

Keep in mind though that some exchanges like Coinbase report your entire crypto balance on the platform to the government tax agencies, so they might be able to see if you are hiding some more coins from them unless you only use the exchange for withdrawing.

In such a case, they might ask you to provide additional reports and stuff like that.

Only on withdrawals once i have withdrawn the amount back to my bank that i have invested in the last 3 years.

Using my £9k example, if i have invested £9k over the last 3 years but I decide to only withdraw £2k back to my bank today, im not going to pay tax on that am I as its not profit as I would still be down £7k compared to the amount i invested overall.

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Quote from: JamesDaniel90 on January 16, 2025, 03:03:59 AM

I know being from the UK my tax is 24% which isn’t the best but it could be worse and happy to pay it when I have to.

I will just start paying tax then only once I have withdrawn back to my bank what I have put in over the last 3 years.

So that means you're only paying tax on the withdrawals.

Keep in mind though that some exchanges like Coinbase report your entire crypto balance on the platform to the government tax agencies, so they might be able to see if you are hiding some more coins from them unless you only use the exchange for withdrawing.

In such a case, they might ask you to provide additional reports and stuff like that.

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Quote from: btcltcdigger on January 16, 2025, 04:01:18 AM

Don't ask people on the forum about taxes, more likely than not, you'll get misguided information, even if it's given in best intent.
Go to your local tax advisor who understands crypto and ask there. Everything else is just best guess or speculation

Best advice. I once asked a question about crypto tax only to realize that I should not have asked on the forum rather should have asked a tax professional about it. That is why I agree with you, most of us here are not well versed in taxes and would give information based on what think they know and not what the law says.

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Quote from: btcltcdigger on January 16, 2025, 04:01:18 AM

Don't ask people on the forum about taxes, more likely than not, you'll get misguided information, even if it's given in best intent.
Go to your local tax advisor who understands crypto and ask there. Everything else is just best guess or speculation

Surely there are many who have been in crypto many years though who know answers and can give advice.

This time in 3 years there will be others who will be doing their taxes for the first time and I will be happy to confirm any questions they will have then.

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Don't ask people on the forum about taxes, more likely than not, you'll get misguided information, even if it's given in best intent.
Go to your local tax advisor who understands crypto and ask there. Everything else is just best guess or speculation

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Quote from: Oshosondy on January 16, 2025, 02:52:16 AM

If you are not in profit, you do not need to pay tax. Only the profit are taxed and not the amount that you have.

If you are in profit, you need to pay tax. Read the tax percentage that you suppose to pay. If you have no idea, you can consult a professional in charge about it.

I know being from the UK my tax is 24% which isn’t the best but it could be worse and happy to pay it when I have to.

I will just start paying tax then only once I have withdrawn back to my bank what I have put in over the last 3 years.

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If you are not in profit, you do not need to pay tax. Only the profit are taxed and not the amount that you have.

If you are in profit, you need to pay tax. Read the tax percentage that you suppose to pay. If you have no idea, you can consult a professional in charge about it.

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With the bull run expected to heat up in the coming months I want to fully understand when it comes to paying tax on my crypto as I have not had to do this before, it’s my first bull run. I am based in the UK.

I have been investing in crypto just shy of 3 years now and up till now I have been mainly buying with the odd bit of taking profits in the last 3 or 4 months.

I have a question , let’s say for example I have invested £250 per month for 3 years which is £9k total. Does that mean I can withdraw £9k back to my bank before I start paying tax as anything under £9k back to my bank would not be profit from the amount I’ve invested?

For example if I was to withdraw £2k back to my bank today, because that is below the £9k I have invested overall I am not in profit yet so shouldn’t have to pay tax on it?

It is only when I will have withdrawn £9k total that I would then start having to paying tax?

Topic: Taking profits & tax. (Read 284 times)