Topic: Talking about the death penalty in China. (Read 255 times)

I guess there may be a reasonable explanation here: that is, they want to sell weapons/nuclear materials to some countries, but they are not willing to go through normal channels, because that may lead to condemnation by the international community, so they need some people to pass unofficial ways to sell weapons/nuclear materials to those countries.
This is just a reasonable guess, otherwise they don’t have to cancel these two articles because they are very serious crimes.

They shouldn't exclude these articles from having a death sentence, IMO, especially smuggling of weapons and nuclear materials, it's like they're inviting terrorists/muslim extremists into their country.

Articles from counterfeit money and fundraising fraud; I smell corruption with these two.

I see, but at the same time these articles were in action for many years. It's good that China considers lifting them now.
As for the number of actual deaths, I just checked the WIKI (not the best source, I know, but the fastest one). In 2017, 1551 were actually executed in China. This is still higher than the whole world altogether. The number should reduce once they remove those absurdly strict articles, I believe.

Does anybody find it funny that stealing data, spying, using spyware and so on is punishable by death. All this in a country that built its military power on plans stolen from around the world (mostly from the US).
Just a few quotes from different articles:





And so on...

Funny that Chinese spies in other countries get prison, spies in China get shot by the death squad.

8,000 people is only an estimate, but most of them are suspended sentences (this is not true death, but nominal), only 30% of them are death actually executed.
So, I think the actual number of deaths should be around 2000-3000 people per year.


Yes, you are right!  It depends on the consequences of jailbreaking.
In fact, in the specific articles about jailbreak, death penalty is stipulated that only in the case of jailbreak and causing death of others.


The two death sentences you listed will be cancelled soon, smuggling and fundraising fraud.
Read my reply on the 3rd floor  "China will cancel 9 articles for death penalty".

I agree that China is indeed a highly militarized country.

The list China have is certainly excessive. Death penalty is too much for such crimes as, for example, smuggling and fundraising fraud. At the same time, it's hard to miss that lots of the articles on the list are connected to military and are applicable only during wartime. It pretty much speaks for the fact that China is still highly militarized country, no doubt it has very strict rules regarding death penalty.

Though I agree with some of the crimes on the list, I think some of them are too severe and I am talking about the jailbreak here but if in the case of a jailbreak people die then I think it will be okay for the death penalty in that scenario.

Plenty of places overreact to citizens' actions, but it's more of a strategy to set an example so that the rest of the population doesn't follow heed. It's seen as a small inconvenience for the health of the greater good. Also, considering eastern cultures/religions prioritize individual human life much less than the west, this Chinese situation isn't surprising.

I believe that decentralization, AI, virtual and blockchain tech are going to protect and benefit general populations more than ever. They're going to take away the initial motivation to commit crimes in the first place and governments' power to act on tyrannical ideologies.

What a crazy country they have in China, you could be put to death for committing a crime and / OR you could be put to death for not commiting a crime (such as the gov not agreeing with what you're saying, though I do guess this could be a crime in the country of China)

People can say what they want about the US, but I'm VERY happy I live in this country and don't have to be subjected to the government of China. Most western nations are like us, and it's a wonderful thing.

Even if this is an estimation, the number is still more than impressive. I wonder what does it speak for: excessive list of death penalty articles, or that death penalty doesn`t work as an effective preventive measure to prevent further crimes and people are still willing to risk their lives to pursue their illegal goals.

The principle of presumption of innocence actually has similar provisions in China.
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW OF THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

Most of the criminal law articles in China stems from Soviet Union, so many death sentences are crimes related to national security.
China has begun to learn from Germany and Japan, it pays more attention to the evidence and human rights. but it now still retains many brutal articles of the former Soviet Union.
I believe that it will become better as more and more human rights articles in German and Japanese criminal law are absorbed.

I don't think death penalty should be abolished at all, specially in China.
it's not impressive That a country with that kind of totalitarian regime have those kind
Of punishments. But what should be taken more seriously is the process throught which
They blame someone as guilty. Innocence Presumption should be a must in all cases.
Even though there are actually some of their causes of penalty that should be abolished

Every thing has its own plus and minus ; merits and  demerits.  Communism stole human independence; with strict rules.  Though strict rules paid China a lot but thousands of people have been killed for minor crimes.  China developed at the cost of independence of its people.
Punishing criminals is good But death penalty should be in rarest of rare cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazexiang_uprising

Just saying, perverse incentive is a thing.

The Chinese are known to be very severe when it comes to dealing with corruption and the sentence for corruption in China is the death penalty and I do believe that’s the right to do because corruption causes the death of people either directly and indirectly

Thank you, I will edit it.

• Smuggling of weapons or ammunition
• Smuggling of nuclear material
• Forgery/smuggling of counterfeit money（here contains 2 articles）
• Fundraising fraud
• Organizing/compulsory/assisting prostitution（here contains 3 articles）
• Spreading rumors during the war

The quota for conclusion of any cases should just be removed if they don't want to wrongfully accuse anyone.

The forensic science is now a great tool for cracking cases, plus, they have facial recognition technology for surveillance and their newly implemented social credit system. Criminal activities should now lessen within their system.

Death penalty should not be demolished in their country, IMO. It can help in reducing their population.

English version - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huugjilt

What are those articles?

It seems that many friends on the forum are interested in the death penalty, especially the death penalty for China. I have conducted in-depth research on Chinese criminal law. Here, I will talk about the death penalty in China.
There are still 58 countries and regions in the world that have retained the death penalty (see the picture below). China is the country with the most crimes of death penalty. At present, there are 55 death penalty clauses in Chinese criminal law.


China's current criminal law provides for 55 death penalty clauses:

• The crime of splitting the country
• The crime of armed rebellion
• Riot
• Jailbreak
• stealing information
• Illegal purchase provides state secrets
• Spy crime
• funded enemy crimes
• Arson
• Destroying the dam
• Explosion
• Crime of destroying the vehicle
• Crime of damaging traffic facilities
• Crime of destroying electrical equipment
• Crime of destroying Inflammable or explosive equipment
• Hijacking plane
• Illegal manufacturing/selling/transporting/storage of firearms/ammunition/explosives
• Illegal manufacturing/selling/transporting/storage of hazardous substances
• Theft/robbery Firearms/ammunition/explosives/dangerous substances/hazardous substances
• Crime of producing/selling counterfeit drugs
• Crime of producing/selling toxic and harmful foods
• Smuggling of weapons or ammunition
• Smuggling of nuclear material
• Forgery/smuggling of counterfeit money
• Fundraising fraud
• Intentional homicide
• Intentional injury
• Rape
• Trafficking women and children
• Robbery
• Teaching crime methods
• Organizing the crime of jailbreak
• Hijacking prison
• Theft of ancient cultural sites and ancient tombs
• Riminal theft of ancient human fossils and ancient vertebrate fossils
• Smuggling/trafficking/transportation/manufacturing drugs
• Organizing/compulsory/assisting prostitution
• Destruction of weapons/equipment/military facilities/military communications
• Crime of negligent damage to weapons/equipment/military facilities/military communications
• Deliberately providing unqualified weapons/equipment/military facilities; negligently providing unqualified weapons/equipment/military facilities
• Corruption
• Boycotting military orders during wartime
• Concealing and falsely reporting military conditions, refusing to pass or mishandling military orders
• Leaving the army without permission during the war
• Preventing the execution of military orders
• Stealing/spyware/purchasing/illegal provision of foreign military secrets
• Spreading rumors during the war
• Theft/Robbery Weapons/Equipment/Military Supplies/Firearms/Ammunition/Explosives/Dangerous Substances
• Illegal sale or transfer of weapons/equipment
  
• Crime of maiming the residents or rob the residents in the wartime

Note: : Statistics such as “Illegal Manufacturing/Sales/Mailing/Transportation/Storage of Firearms/Ammunition/Explosives” contain various criminal acts that can be committed as long as one of the acts is violated.

The number of China’s annual death sentence is considered a state secret and has not yet been announced. It is widely estimated in the academic world that about 8,000 people are sentenced to death each year in China, almost 20 times the total number of people sentenced to death in other parts of the world. China is currently preparing to issue a new version of the Criminal Code with the intention of canceling 9 articles for death.
There has been controversy over whether China should abolish the death penalty, and the legal profession generally supports the abolition of the death penalty, but the government and most ordinary people do not think so. here the government and the general public have different reasons to oppose the abolition of the death penalty.
We must analyze the articles of the death penalty in China first , China's death penalty articles can be divided into 5 types.
1. Related to national security,such as "Stealing intelligence".
2. Related to public safety, such as "Arson."
3. Related to military/weapons and equipment safety, such as “illegal sale or transfer of weapons/equipment”.
4. Related to national economic policies, such as “falsification/smuggling of counterfeit money”.
5. Related to the personal safety of citizens, such as "intentional homicide".

There are 3 types of death penalty related to the government/military. As an authoritarian government, it retains these types of death punishments to defend their dominance, and they are reluctant to abolish these types of death fines.
There are 2 types of death sentences related to personal safety, deeply rooted in the concept of "Eye for an Eye" in Chinese culture. Therefore, the most people think that criminals who commit serious crimes must die. Only in this way can people's anger be quelled.
Therefore, although the state and citizens have different reasons to oppose the abolition of the death penalty, they have formed a unified force against the death penalty. This power against the death penalty is extremely powerful. At least for now, China’s abolition of the death penalty is still out of reach.

But in recent years, this power has weakened because China has already proactively announced some cases that have been wrongly sentenced in recent years. Here is one most typical case here：
Mongolian youth Huugjilt was wrongly identified as a criminal of rape and murder in 1996, he was shot 62 days after his conviction, and the case has entered the retrial process in 2014 and he was flipped, but he has been dead for 18 years.

For a long time, China has never disclosed such cases, especially during the Mao Zedong rule, at that time thousands of people were wrongly sentenced to death. I believe that even now many people are wrongly sentenced to death in China,but most of them have not been found. Many ordinary people and China's highest judicial organs are realize of the problem. The death of Huugjilt has awakened some people.
Therefore, China is beginning to learn the death penalty implementation from foreign experienceand and delay the execution of the death penalty. Although this does not completely avoid wrong judgments, it can at least save the lives of some innocent people.

Is it possible for the Chinese government to abolish the death penalty? I think is impossible for this government.
World Coalition Against the Death Penalty has been established for 16 years. According to statistics, nearly 150 of the 193 member states of the United Nations have joined. The abolition of the death penalty is a trend of human development，it's not a matter of if at this point, it's a matter of when.

Reference:
1. CRIMINAL LAW OF THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA
2. United Nations resolution 62/149
3. The case about Huugjilt