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Topic: Tax write off for Coinlenders loss (Read 1605 times)

hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
February 08, 2014, 01:06:16 AM
#8
Interesting.  So in that case, I would assume that the tax basis would be the value of the bitcoins at the time of the theft.  Either that or when I discovered it, which was a few weeks later, unfortunately for me.
No. Your tax basis would be the cost of the Bitcoins, not their value.

If you buy some Bitcoins for $10, you have a $10 tax basis in those Bitcoins. Unless some subsequent event changes the tax basis, when you sell them or lose them, your tax basis is still $10. If you sell them for $50, you have a taxable gain of $40. If you lose them, you have a taxable loss of $10.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc703.html

See also Topic 515 on theft losses. "The amount of your theft loss is generally the adjusted basis of your property because the fair market value of your property immediately after the theft is considered to be zero."

Of course, there's a form:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4684.pdf


Ah, I see, thanks for clarifying.  I appreciate it.

Interesting.  So in that case, I would assume that the tax basis would be the value of the bitcoins at the time of the theft.  Either that or when I discovered it, which was a few weeks later, unfortunately for me.
Quit assuming and start reading. Your deductible loss is what you paid for your coins, minus whatever compensation you received for losing them. Assuming your coins were not insured and you have not successfully sued Coinlenders, you have no compensation whatsoever and you can deduct the entire cost base. Which, again, is what you paid for your coins and no more.

It sounds like you're trying to get the IRS to fully compensate you for your loss. This is tax fraud and you are likely to go to jail if you are caught. Do not claim a larger deduction than you are legally entitled to.

I did read what JoelKatz had to say.  I just didn't comprehend it very well, obviously. 
legendary
Activity: 4535
Merit: 3188
Vile Vixen and Miss Bitcointalk 2021-2023
February 04, 2014, 06:02:33 AM
#7
Interesting.  So in that case, I would assume that the tax basis would be the value of the bitcoins at the time of the theft.  Either that or when I discovered it, which was a few weeks later, unfortunately for me.
Quit assuming and start reading. Your deductible loss is what you paid for your coins, minus whatever compensation you received for losing them. Assuming your coins were not insured and you have not successfully sued Coinlenders, you have no compensation whatsoever and you can deduct the entire cost base. Which, again, is what you paid for your coins and no more.

It sounds like you're trying to get the IRS to fully compensate you for your loss. This is tax fraud and you are likely to go to jail if you are caught. Do not claim a larger deduction than you are legally entitled to.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
February 04, 2014, 04:18:19 AM
#6
Interesting.  So in that case, I would assume that the tax basis would be the value of the bitcoins at the time of the theft.  Either that or when I discovered it, which was a few weeks later, unfortunately for me.
No. Your tax basis would be the cost of the Bitcoins, not their value.

If you buy some Bitcoins for $10, you have a $10 tax basis in those Bitcoins. Unless some subsequent event changes the tax basis, when you sell them or lose them, your tax basis is still $10. If you sell them for $50, you have a taxable gain of $40. If you lose them, you have a taxable loss of $10.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc703.html

See also Topic 515 on theft losses. "The amount of your theft loss is generally the adjusted basis of your property because the fair market value of your property immediately after the theft is considered to be zero."

Of course, there's a form:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4684.pdf
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
February 04, 2014, 03:40:46 AM
#5
And if so, would one report the loss in the exchange rate dollar amount that I invested it in, or the current exchange rate as of when I file my taxes, likely to be quite a bit higher?
Neither. As I understand it, the loss would be your tax basis. Unless some other event adjusted your tax basis, it would be your cost in acquiring the Bitcoins.

"The tax basis of an asset is generally its cost. ... Adjusted tax basis is used in determining gain or loss from disposition of the asset." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_basis

It would be the same as if you bought a stock for $50, it went up to $5,000, and then it went down to $0. Your loss would be your tax basis, which would be the $50 you paid for the stock.

Interesting.  So in that case, I would assume that the tax basis would be the value of the bitcoins at the time of the theft.  Either that or when I discovered it, which was a few weeks later, unfortunately for me.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
February 04, 2014, 03:33:21 AM
#4
And if so, would one report the loss in the exchange rate dollar amount that I invested it in, or the current exchange rate as of when I file my taxes, likely to be quite a bit higher?
Neither. As I understand it, the loss would be your tax basis. Unless some other event adjusted your tax basis, it would be your cost in acquiring the Bitcoins.

"The tax basis of an asset is generally its cost. ... Adjusted tax basis is used in determining gain or loss from disposition of the asset." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_basis

It would be the same as if you bought a stock for $50, it went up to $5,000, and then it went down to $0. Your loss would be your tax basis, which would be the $50 you paid for the stock.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
February 04, 2014, 03:23:39 AM
#3
I am not an accountant, and this is not tax advice (please consult an actual accountant or tax advisor before believing anything you read on these forums!), but generally, yes, loss or theft of an asset is a realisation event and therefore can be written off a capital loss, subject to the normal limits on the deductions you can claim for capital losses. The amount realised is, of course, zero (unless you received some sort of compensation for your lost coins, eg, as a result of a successful lawsuit or insurance claim, which I'm assuming isn't the case), so your net loss is simply your cost base, which is the price you originally paid for your coins (and not what they would be worth now or at the time they were lost).

Also, be sure to keep all records pertaining to your Coinlenders transactions and your SEC report, in case you get audited.

Thanks.  That all makes sense.  I'm still debating on whether or not it'll actually be worthwhile to claim it as I wouldn't be surprised if the IRS treats Bitcoin transactions as kind of a red flag.  I just read the digital currency users need guidance PDF and it wasn't particularly helpful one way or another.
legendary
Activity: 4535
Merit: 3188
Vile Vixen and Miss Bitcointalk 2021-2023
February 03, 2014, 04:05:35 AM
#2
I am not an accountant, and this is not tax advice (please consult an actual accountant or tax advisor before believing anything you read on these forums!), but generally, yes, loss or theft of an asset is a realisation event and therefore can be written off a capital loss, subject to the normal limits on the deductions you can claim for capital losses. The amount realised is, of course, zero (unless you received some sort of compensation for your lost coins, eg, as a result of a successful lawsuit or insurance claim, which I'm assuming isn't the case), so your net loss is simply your cost base, which is the price you originally paid for your coins (and not what they would be worth now or at the time they were lost).

Also, be sure to keep all records pertaining to your Coinlenders transactions and your SEC report, in case you get audited.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
February 03, 2014, 03:20:56 AM
#1
So I lost nearly all my bitcoins in the Coinlenders scam.  Yeah, I know, it was a bad investment, and I feel dumb for it. 

I reported it to the SEC since it sure felt like theft to me.  Having said that, as much as I'd love to get the money back at some point in the future, at this point it's not looking likely.  And it's tax season in America, where I live.  Does anyone know if you can write something like this off as a capital loss as far as taxes go?  And if so, would one report the loss in the exchange rate dollar amount that I invested it in, or the current exchange rate as of when I file my taxes, likely to be quite a bit higher?
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