Topic: Team ponzi? Can someone shed some light on this? Edit: [Kind-of Solved] (Read 1135 times)

Oh.  You coulda just said a black hole.

My Coffee and my secure, distributed and backed up dual VPS fund.

Regards,
Jonathan

1.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 payout  --> pot = .9 BTC      
2.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 payout --> pot = .75 BTC   1.) paid
3.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 payout --> pot = .6 BTC     2.) paid
4.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 payout --> pot = .45 BTC   3.)paid
1.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .3 BTC                4.) paid
2.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .15 BTC              1.) paid
3.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = 0 BTC                2.)paid
4.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = 1 BTC              
1.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .85 BTC            3.)paid
2.) Deposit 1 BTC -->   1.15 --> pot = .7 BTC              4.)paid
3.) Deposit 1 BTC -->   1.15 --> pot = .55 BTC                1.)paid
4.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .4 BTC              2.)paid
1.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .25 BTC                3.) paid
2.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .1 BTC              4.) paid
3.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = 1.10  BTC              
4.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .95  BTC             1.)  paid
1.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .8 BTC                2.) paid
2.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .65  BTC             3.)  paid
3.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .5  BTC             4.)  paid
4.)  Deposit 1 BTC  --> 1.15 --> pot = .35 BTC               1.)  paid
1.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .2 BTC             2.)  paid
2.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .05  BTC              3.)  paid
3.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = 1.05  BTC            
4.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .9                       4.) paid

Each player paid 5 times   Deposit 6 BTC  each, but each wins 5.75
5.75 X 4 = 23  BTC
.9 extra......
24 BTC in, 23.9 BTC out.....so .1 BTC (10% of initial deposit) goes where?

Edit:  Also, where does the .9 extra in the pot go?

Edit 2:  I'm going to spam now.  Join these so I can reinvest and so you can make me happy for doing math at 4:42 AM U.S. central time.  This is my greedy side.  Enjoy it.
http://bitcoinduit.com/game/viewRound.php?id=Lets_Ponz
http://bitcoinduit.com/game/viewRound.php?id=MaxJackpot
http://bitcoinduit.com/game/viewRound.php?id=Half_double

If there's 10% fee on first deposit, then the whole thing is off because pot isn't 1 BTC at start, correct?  It would be .9 BTC, and that shifts everything.

My question is, where does this 10% go to?

I think that's your only mistake. With that fixed, you get 24 coins paid in and 24 coins paid out.

My maths are the finest around.  I will even do your taxes.

I like OPs maths. We're starting a /2 reverse doubler soon - you should give it a try! Bring your friends!

Yes you're right, but there was a much more fundamental problem from the beginning.

Ok but...then is my math off?

If first deposit is 1 BTC, then .9BTC ends up in the pot to begin with...

Total payout for each game is 24.05 BTC....deposit is still only 24 BTC...
24 transactions X .0005 transaction fees in = .012.....
24 transactions X .0005 transaction fees out = .012...
.012 X 2 = .024....
24.05 - .024 = 24.026....
24.026 > 24

Still not sure where I'm off...

Edit:  This would affect the total payments and amount in pot.  Nevermind.  I think I see the problem.  

First deposit of the game, which is from the round's creator.

So even when there's 'no fees,' there's always an obligatory 10% fee on the first deposit?   Is this the first deposit of the game or first deposit of each player?

The payout of a ponzi can't be higher than the total input. In fact, its always lower than the input because of the 10% fee to the first deposit and transaction fees from sending.

Come on, I thought you all were smart 

So, excuse me if I'm having a mental lapse at the moment but...assuming no jackpot and no fees.....

If 4 people coordinated together and alone for 4 different 6-round ponzi games....couldn't all win, always?

For example, a 1 BTC deposit with 15% ROI...

1.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 payout  --> pot = 1 BTC      
2.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 payout --> pot = .85 BTC   1.) paid
3.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 payout --> pot = .7 BTC     2.) paid
4.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 payout --> pot = .65 BTC   3.)paid
1.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .5 BTC                4.) paid
2.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .35 BTC              1.) paid
3.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .2 BTC                2.)paid
4.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .05 BTC              3.)paid
1.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = 1.10 BTC
2.) Deposit 1 BTC -->   1.15 --> pot = .95 BTC              4.)paid
3.) Deposit 1 BTC -->   1.15 --> pot = .8 BTC                1.)paid
4.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .65 BTC              2.)paid
1.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .5 BTC                3.) paid
2.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .35 BTC              4.) paid
3.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .2  BTC              1.)  paid
4.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .05  BTC             2.)  paid
1.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = 1.05 BTC  
2.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .90  BTC             3.)  paid
3.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .75  BTC             4.)  paid
4.)  Deposit 1 BTC  --> 1.15 --> pot = .6 BTC               1.)  paid
1.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .45 BTC             2.)  paid
2.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .3  BTC              3.)  paid
3.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = .15  BTC            4.)  paid
4.)  Deposit 1 BTC -->  1.15 --> pot = 0                       1.)  paid

Player 1   = 6 deposits and win 6.9 BTC
player 2 = 6 deposits and win 5.75 BTC
player 3 = 6 deposits and win 5.75 BTC
player 4 = 6 deposits and win 5.75 BTC

Game 2, player 2 starts and wins 6.9 BTC, all others win 5.75
Game 3, player 3 starts and wins 6.9 BTC, all others win 5.75
Game 4, player 4 starts and wins 6.9 BTC, all others win 5.75

4 game deposit for all 4 players = 24 BTC  but all win 24.15 BTC

Now this seems like a ridiculous amount of work and coordination, but scaled up, who knows....for example, a starting deposit = 100 BTC  where everyone would walk away with 15 BTC by the end

Why, and how, does this work?  Am I missing something?  Why do the total winnings end up to be more than the initial deposits, and where does the ROI come from?