Topic: [TEASER] - showing if a coin is funded/unfunded (Opinions needed) (Read 1412 times)
Maybe just sell some funded, and some DIY? Maybe mark one of the types' holograms so it can be easily distinguishable.
June 21, 2016, 03:31:40 PM
About the questions and solutions I posted yesterday, I thought of another alternative of printing onto the hologram with an inkjet. I still think that either the lasering or the pgp signed list would be the better of the options.
June 21, 2016, 07:41:51 AM
Thanks for that, hadn't seen the post from Mike directly 
And he talks an enormous amount of sense and it's a cautionary tale for those making coins (and their customers) now
Don't be so sure, there was more to it then that:
And he talks an enormous amount of sense and it's a cautionary tale for those making coins (and their customers) now
Don't be so sure, there was more to it then that:
Reasons I'm likely to not sell more coins:
1. Don't want compliance hassle of being a money transmitter (this was a hobby project meant to promote awareness - moving money was never an objective)
2. Don't want security risk (the more valuable bitcoins get, the more professional the security must be and the more sophisticated attacks I must anticipate)
3. Don't want to make a mistake and become a bitcoin poster child (like Charlie Shrem, I feel like I'd be a high value prosecution target if I were to make some sort of legal mistake, just for my visibility alone)
4. Mission already accomplished (original mission was to help people become aware of bitcoin and to help people start conversations about it)
5. An appropriate mission nowadays would be to encourage people to store their own bitcoin safely on self-produced paper wallets instead of trusting others without recourse. Continuing to produce other people's private keys is perverse toward that objective.
6. I feel like the more coins I sell, the more I accumulate a presumed liability in the form of people who must trust me not to scam them. What happens if someone calls my trustworthiness into question, even without cause? Then people might think I lied and kept the keys, and then someone might want to harm me. Not what I signed up for.
7. I don't want to be in over my head. Look at Mark Karpeles, his life is probably now ruined. He could and should have quit while he was ahead.
8. It's honestly fun to see my past coins skyrocket in value. That was never anticipated in the beginning, but I will be honest, I enjoy seeing them fetch ever higher prices on the secondary market.
1. Don't want compliance hassle of being a money transmitter (this was a hobby project meant to promote awareness - moving money was never an objective)
2. Don't want security risk (the more valuable bitcoins get, the more professional the security must be and the more sophisticated attacks I must anticipate)
3. Don't want to make a mistake and become a bitcoin poster child (like Charlie Shrem, I feel like I'd be a high value prosecution target if I were to make some sort of legal mistake, just for my visibility alone)
4. Mission already accomplished (original mission was to help people become aware of bitcoin and to help people start conversations about it)
5. An appropriate mission nowadays would be to encourage people to store their own bitcoin safely on self-produced paper wallets instead of trusting others without recourse. Continuing to produce other people's private keys is perverse toward that objective.
6. I feel like the more coins I sell, the more I accumulate a presumed liability in the form of people who must trust me not to scam them. What happens if someone calls my trustworthiness into question, even without cause? Then people might think I lied and kept the keys, and then someone might want to harm me. Not what I signed up for.
7. I don't want to be in over my head. Look at Mark Karpeles, his life is probably now ruined. He could and should have quit while he was ahead.
8. It's honestly fun to see my past coins skyrocket in value. That was never anticipated in the beginning, but I will be honest, I enjoy seeing them fetch ever higher prices on the secondary market.
June 21, 2016, 04:45:19 AM
How do people in the US receive funded coins? Does someone just do a group buy and then distribute them? But how does the person doing the group buy get them in the first place because I assume they are in the US too. My vote is The option of unfunded
They receive the coins from miffman directly. Just like any other coin, they get shipped to your address. No idea what you're talking about group buys.I assume you just want the sig payout from yobit.
Its illegal unless they have a money transmitter license. So that is why I asked. If it wasnt illegal/frowned upon then casascius would probably still be doing his thing.
Don't be so sure, there was more to it then that:
Reasons I'm likely to not sell more coins:
1. Don't want compliance hassle of being a money transmitter (this was a hobby project meant to promote awareness - moving money was never an objective)
2. Don't want security risk (the more valuable bitcoins get, the more professional the security must be and the more sophisticated attacks I must anticipate)
3. Don't want to make a mistake and become a bitcoin poster child (like Charlie Shrem, I feel like I'd be a high value prosecution target if I were to make some sort of legal mistake, just for my visibility alone)
4. Mission already accomplished (original mission was to help people become aware of bitcoin and to help people start conversations about it)
5. An appropriate mission nowadays would be to encourage people to store their own bitcoin safely on self-produced paper wallets instead of trusting others without recourse. Continuing to produce other people's private keys is perverse toward that objective.
6. I feel like the more coins I sell, the more I accumulate a presumed liability in the form of people who must trust me not to scam them. What happens if someone calls my trustworthiness into question, even without cause? Then people might think I lied and kept the keys, and then someone might want to harm me. Not what I signed up for.
7. I don't want to be in over my head. Look at Mark Karpeles, his life is probably now ruined. He could and should have quit while he was ahead.
8. It's honestly fun to see my past coins skyrocket in value. That was never anticipated in the beginning, but I will be honest, I enjoy seeing them fetch ever higher prices on the secondary market.
1. Don't want compliance hassle of being a money transmitter (this was a hobby project meant to promote awareness - moving money was never an objective)
2. Don't want security risk (the more valuable bitcoins get, the more professional the security must be and the more sophisticated attacks I must anticipate)
3. Don't want to make a mistake and become a bitcoin poster child (like Charlie Shrem, I feel like I'd be a high value prosecution target if I were to make some sort of legal mistake, just for my visibility alone)
4. Mission already accomplished (original mission was to help people become aware of bitcoin and to help people start conversations about it)
5. An appropriate mission nowadays would be to encourage people to store their own bitcoin safely on self-produced paper wallets instead of trusting others without recourse. Continuing to produce other people's private keys is perverse toward that objective.
6. I feel like the more coins I sell, the more I accumulate a presumed liability in the form of people who must trust me not to scam them. What happens if someone calls my trustworthiness into question, even without cause? Then people might think I lied and kept the keys, and then someone might want to harm me. Not what I signed up for.
7. I don't want to be in over my head. Look at Mark Karpeles, his life is probably now ruined. He could and should have quit while he was ahead.
8. It's honestly fun to see my past coins skyrocket in value. That was never anticipated in the beginning, but I will be honest, I enjoy seeing them fetch ever higher prices on the secondary market.
June 21, 2016, 03:08:07 AM
How do people in the US receive funded coins? Does someone just do a group buy and then distribute them? But how does the person doing the group buy get them in the first place because I assume they are in the US too. My vote is The option of unfunded
They receive the coins from miffman directly. Just like any other coin, they get shipped to your address. No idea what you're talking about group buys.I assume you just want the sig payout from yobit.
Its illegal unless they have a money transmitter license. So that is why I asked. If it wasnt illegal/frowned upon then casascius would probably still be doing his thing.
June 21, 2016, 02:39:27 AM
How do people in the US receive funded coins? Does someone just do a group buy and then distribute them? But how does the person doing the group buy get them in the first place because I assume they are in the US too. My vote is The option of unfunded
They receive the coins from miffman directly. Just like any other coin, they get shipped to your address. No idea what you're talking about group buys.I assume you just want the sig payout from yobit.
June 21, 2016, 01:59:13 AM
How do people in the US receive funded coins? Does someone just do a group buy and then distribute them? But how does the person doing the group buy get them in the first place because I assume they are in the US too. My vote is The option of unfunded
June 20, 2016, 11:50:32 PM
Thanks for the replies everyone the idea is not to have a non-denominated coin, but a coin with the option of funding. It is riskier, but if done properly it could work.
Still looking to hear what others say about the proposed solution if the lasering does not work out.
the idea is not to have a non-denominated coin, but a coin with the option of funding. It is riskier, but if done properly it could work. Still looking to hear what others say about the proposed solution if the lasering does not work out.
June 20, 2016, 04:52:31 PM
It's always nice to have options and as price climbs even the smallest amounts added to cost of coin could marginalise some people out.
If you want sales, then options to me, is the way forward.
If limited runs, then reduce the options too.
If you want sales, then options to me, is the way forward.
If limited runs, then reduce the options too.
If OGN gets the nastyfans seats working, that's the way to do a crypto coin. Inexhaustable payments allocated to the the address associated with the piece. That's actually my final answer.
June 20, 2016, 04:35:45 PM
It's always nice to have options and as price climbs even the smallest amounts added to cost of coin could marginalise some people out.
If you want sales, then options to me, is the way forward.
If limited runs, then reduce the options too.
If you want sales, then options to me, is the way forward.
If limited runs, then reduce the options too.
June 20, 2016, 04:33:43 PM
Plus making a coin is expensive enough, to say there's a x BTC premium above spot and design is a tough sale unless people love to collect your product. Especially if you're loading it with a $740 BTC today and it's a $850 BTC when the coin gets minted. A lot of moving parts IMO. There's way more risk then When cas started this thing.
June 20, 2016, 04:24:46 PM
I'm a noob in this physical coin business, but I've chosen an UNFUNDED, laser etched keys motif for my first run. Folks have asked for blanks, as well. That's cool, let folks manage the value of the piece. There will be a couple that will be funded for collectible purposes. But it should be up to the purchaser to load as much (or as little) crypto they want. For example, I have a lealana 10LTC with a 100LTC on it. I hope it will have 1000 on it soon. I'd rather just manage the coin and know it has 423.35637 LTC on it rather than the coin face dictating how many coins are captured in that address.
Understand and people could look at it 2 ways, for just straight loading a coin with random btc, or litecoin i personally would use a non denominational coin like silver wallets. You can see people who overload cas coins its tough to get rid of it for any premium, but if you are looking for just storage and not resale either way could work.
June 20, 2016, 04:22:15 PM
I would go the lealana route, easily distiguishable between funded and unfunded coins. Different colors might not be known to the average buyer, therefore slight chance of being duped.
Buyer Funded lasering sounds best
Thanks for the reply
If the lasering doesn't work out (I will phone around as far as I can though), do you think option 3 would be suitable? Oh yes option3. For me that would be fine (i want mine funded
)But even for the coins with just first bits, there needs to be a list somewhere for addresses, so i guess that will work as well
June 20, 2016, 04:15:22 PM
I'm a noob in this physical coin business, but I've chosen an UNFUNDED, laser etched keys motif for my first run. Folks have asked for blanks, as well. That's cool, let folks manage the value of the piece. There will be a couple that will be funded for collectible purposes. But it should be up to the purchaser to load as much (or as little) crypto they want. For example, I have a lealana 10LTC with a 100LTC on it. I hope it will have 1000 on it soon. I'd rather just manage the coin and know it has 423.35637 LTC on it rather than the coin face dictating how many coins are captured in that address.
June 20, 2016, 04:12:12 PM
I would go the lealana route, easily distiguishable between funded and unfunded coins. Different colors might not be known to the average buyer, therefore slight chance of being duped.
Buyer Funded lasering sounds best
Thanks for the reply
If the lasering doesn't work out (I will phone around as far as I can though), do you think option 3 would be suitable? June 20, 2016, 04:10:34 PM
Buyer Funded lasering sounds best
June 20, 2016, 04:04:57 PM
I would go the lealana route, easily distiguishable between funded and unfunded coins. Different colors might not be known to the average buyer, therefore slight chance of being duped.
June 20, 2016, 03:42:26 PM
So coins have been making some progress, but not enough to post a new pic just yet
I do want some opinions again though:
So I've been thinking of different ways to cater for both funded and unfunded. I'd like to mark the coin in some way to let the buyer know the coin was originally unfunded. A known way is to just get the holo lasered. I've already contacted some people to enquire about lasering my holo since I don't have one myself.
Another way was to mark the first bits in a different colour. (I'm not keen on this, an outsider might just look past it)
A third way was to replace the address first few characters in the transparent window with some text that says 'unfunded' or something similar. The address of the coin for funding would then correspond to it's number (since all coins are numbered) on a pgp signed list of addresses.
If the lasering doesn't work out, I'd look at going with option 3. There would be a lot more book keeping and address checking, but I'm willing to do it. If anyone doesn't like this idea, please let me know why. And if you do, let me know too
Thanks!
I do want some opinions again though:
So I've been thinking of different ways to cater for both funded and unfunded. I'd like to mark the coin in some way to let the buyer know the coin was originally unfunded. A known way is to just get the holo lasered. I've already contacted some people to enquire about lasering my holo since I don't have one myself.
Another way was to mark the first bits in a different colour. (I'm not keen on this, an outsider might just look past it)
A third way was to replace the address first few characters in the transparent window with some text that says 'unfunded' or something similar. The address of the coin for funding would then correspond to it's number (since all coins are numbered) on a pgp signed list of addresses.
If the lasering doesn't work out, I'd look at going with option 3. There would be a lot more book keeping and address checking, but I'm willing to do it. If anyone doesn't like this idea, please let me know why. And if you do, let me know too
Thanks!
Are there any particular angles you'd like to see?
Call me old-fashioned but front and back maybe?
I'll show the back when I have the holograms and they're assembled
Are there any particular angles you'd like to see?
Call me old-fashioned but front and back maybe?
I can take some on Friday afternoon/evening. Are there any particular angles you'd like to see?
I would like to see all of them. Are there any particular angles you'd like to see?Me too.
All of the angles or all of the coins?
either way, I will take some pics of all the coins together. I can take some on Friday afternoon/evening. Are there any particular angles you'd like to see?
I would like to see all of them. Are there any particular angles you'd like to see?Me too.
I can take some on Friday afternoon/evening. Are there any particular angles you'd like to see?
I would like to see all of them. Are there any particular angles you'd like to see? Hey miffman,
Can you share some more pictures of the coin?
Can you share some more pictures of the coin?
I can take some on Friday afternoon/evening.
Are there any particular angles you'd like to see?
Hey miffman,
Can you share some more pictures of the coin?
Can you share some more pictures of the coin?
Thanks all for the opinions and votes.
I've come to a conclusion. I will be selling the coins with the option to have it funded or unfunded. If the coin is funded, it will have a hologram with no markings/text on it. An unfunded coin will be assembled and have the hologram marked with some text or something to notify the owner or prospective buyer that it was not funded by me.
This has pushed hologram production a bit more since I don't have direct access to a laser to be able to mark the holograms. That being said, I'm sure all of you would appreciate having a properly done coin that one that isn't I will keep everyone updated as things progress as always.
PS: For those who have been asking or who want to ask, there will be no pre-orders (at all) and no reservations as of right now for this coin. There will be a preset time
I've come to a conclusion. I will be selling the coins with the option to have it funded or unfunded. If the coin is funded, it will have a hologram with no markings/text on it. An unfunded coin will be assembled and have the hologram marked with some text or something to notify the owner or prospective buyer that it was not funded by me.
This has pushed hologram production a bit more since I don't have direct access to a laser to be able to mark the holograms. That being said, I'm sure all of you would appreciate having a properly done coin that one that isn't
I will keep everyone updated as things progress as always. PS: For those who have been asking or who want to ask, there will be no pre-orders (at all) and no reservations as of right now for this coin. There will be a preset time
In my opinion there are two types of coin collectors:
1. Those who can afford to buy a prefunded coin and store it as a beautiful long term investment.
2. Those who cannot afford to fund a high amount of bitcoin in type of a long term investment and just want the physical item.
I personally am a "type 1" collector. So I voted for funded.
But I think giving the option to get both the unfunded and funded coins would be the most profitable option for the seller(miffman) - You will gauge interest from both "types" of collectors and therefore get more sales.
1. Those who can afford to buy a prefunded coin and store it as a beautiful long term investment.
2. Those who cannot afford to fund a high amount of bitcoin in type of a long term investment and just want the physical item.
I personally am a "type 1" collector. So I voted for funded.
But I think giving the option to get both the unfunded and funded coins would be the most profitable option for the seller(miffman) - You will gauge interest from both "types" of collectors and therefore get more sales.
Would be up for a couple if funded depending on the mark up.
I won't buy it if I need to fund it with 0.25BTC. I prefer to spend that on buying more coins for my collection.
I prefer the option. .25B may be more than some people want to fund in addition to the cost of the coin.
I would agree. Anyways if you have it open to funded or not funded, you could reach a larger audience (those not willing to pay for funding). 
I prefer the option. .25B may be more than some people want to fund in addition to the cost of the coin.
I voted funded.
Vote Funded- interested! Thanks
I am a buyer if they are funded 
Great coin 
0.25 BTC right
?
Funding depends on how many are being Minted ?
0.25 BTC right
?Funding depends on how many are being Minted ?
I should have said in the OP, the face value is 0.25BTC
Great coin
0.25 BTC right?
Funding depends on how many are being Minted ?
0.25 BTC right
?Funding depends on how many are being Minted ?
I wanted to gauge with everyone what their preferences are on coin funding. I would like to have all of my coins funded, but I realize that it may be expensive for some.
This is with regards to the coin I posted as a teaser:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/teaser-reservations-are-open-1471696
Let me know your thoughts
This is with regards to the coin I posted as a teaser:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/teaser-reservations-are-open-1471696
Let me know your thoughts
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