Topic: Technical analysis is a another form of manipulation. Here is everything I know, (Read 346 times)

Indeed question everything ?_?         TA on a basic level is record keeping, statistics, counting averages.     Nothing wrong with that or especially distorting but when people draw conclusions from a moving average, thats opinion.

TA can just be maths, nothing that evolved from the price especially.   Extrapolation is estimating based on previous prices, its not unreasonable nor is it ever entirely accurate.   I prefer stats to guessing though



Blue line is a 8 day average.   Horizontal lines are % of previous highs vs lows.    Green bar means it ends the (4hr) time period higher then when it started, red is a drop over this time.   The lines on the bar are prices in that time seen but did not stick, the bar bottom to top being the start and end of the price move

It is to a large extent, but no one is forcing people to buy signals or retarded courses that cost a few hundred dollars easily. Based on that I would say that people allow themselves to be manipulated.

It reminds me of how certain forex groups have tens of thousands of members all having bought a subscription. You can steer these people to a certain asset and long or short it based on your preferred levels.

People are too stupid to understand that these "gurus" selling information wouldn't need to sell anything if they were so good at trading. People need to lose money in order to figure that out I guess.

Exactly.

And regardless of what the intentions of the OP is, I think that he does bring up some good points. Most of the articles that are presented by media with some sort of price prediction and the so called "analysis" are complete bogus. And I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of ulterior motive other than purely gaining publicity that these predictions are still being published and pushed.

I think that in any given moment, TA could probably give multiple different predictions that may completely contradict each other, depend on the way you are actually analysing. And it is this that can be used to manipulate the markets, if you can somehow get others to buy into this narrative.

At the beginning of knowing bitcoin, I believed a lot in technical analysis, after having losses and losses it was impressive to get out of my mind that technical analysis is the way to win, I discovered that the best way to stop my losses was reading Wyckoff's books and Livermore, who were great Market Speculators, and according to their philosophies I apply them to the bitcoin market and it has given me good results, I managed to stop my losses and I started to understand the market, that is the way that I showed myself that the Technical analysis will never be fulfilled.

It's a pity when people are confronted with public debate, that they cannot face the music and cut and run at the slightest sign of confrontation. Bitcointalk is there for everyone to debate interesting subjects like this and people should not shy away from a little criticism or analytical discussions like this.

Bitcoiners can never deny that there are market manipulation in Bitcoin. Does this automatically mean that it is a Ponzi scheme?

A Ponzi scheme is a form of fraud which lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors by using funds obtained from more recent investors. The victims are led to believe that the profits are coming from product sales or other means, and they remain unaware that other investors are the source of profits. Source : Wikipedia

Looking at the above definition, would you see market manipulation as a deceptive strategy to create the perception that someone is buying something that was presented as something else?  

 

just because you don't understand something or even had some unrealistic expectations from that thing doesn't mean that thing is a "manipulation".
in case of technical analysis you first have to learn what it is, then have realistic expectations out of it and then start talking about what it is and what it isn't. based on what you are saying in this topic, it is very clear that you have very little understanding of TA, bitcoin and its market and also you are confused about altcoins and their markets too and apparently you had some unrealistic expectations from all of this and you got burned now you are lashing out!

nice image
i call it TREND ANAL's.... emphasis on the anal
which is different from TECHNICAL analysis
.. but yea
if people are just drawing lines on a chart, where they they are just finding 2 price points to line together.. thats not technical.. thats trend.. and is just pointless

anyone who has ever had a girlfriend or wife knows. if you had sex for the last 3 weks does not guarantee your gonna get it the fourth week
if you ate pizza for the last 3 weeks doesnt mean your gonna want it as much the 4 week
if you have  new born baby that peacefully slept 2 nights in a row, does not mean your gonna get it to happen every night

if you just look at a stat and draw a line. its meaningless and just poorly done trend anal

I believe that if bitcoin is a ponzi scheme for the reasons you have deduced then even the whole traditional financial system is a ponzi scheme and it's all s**t 

That's because of the volatility so that the price of bitcoin becomes tidal due to the influence of demand and supply on the market. Everyone has their own beliefs, and I don't think bitcoin is a ponzi scheme.

Contrary to the regulated market, bitcoin are supposed to be free market, manipulation on a free market, and you get the huge price volatility, I know some people can't accept the volatility, they want control badly, they want control price control, and 2008 tell us what a regulated market lead us to, and it is why bitcoin are born? I think TA are fine, it is part of the free market we always dream of.

thats why people invented spiritual empires and spheres.where people believe in punishments in hell

gamer spheres with atheist gamers, are hell on earth play the video game "rust" everybody is a potential snake that out of nothing might backstab you good luck with that

Might as well say water is wet. Also, tall people are longer than average.

TA has always tried to un-martingale a martingale - it's always been a joke. And crypto is obviously a grossly manipulated market. Of course, so is the Chinese stock market, and yet some people make money.

The small investor can only make money realizing he's small, accepting it. You're not going to out-HFT the big boys, and even if TA could work (which it can't mathematically - prices are a martingale), you would not be able to read the tea leaves faster and act on them faster than the big boys. You have to have a more realistic investment plan. And anything over 3-5% per annum would be really, really good for a small investor - don't be delusional.

I don't understand what the motivation for you posting this would be. Either educated investors agree with you, so it's a waste of time, or, you're talking to idiots who just get angry when you try to correct. So what's the point? I would imagine the only reason would be you venting about the ridiculous manipulation when you hoped-for/expected less?

he is actually right with that,

the current market manipulation by the bitcoin whales to attract desperate fomo dogs is another such ponzi scheme.

it is not a free market anyway. and it shouldnt be considered that way.

Lol! Now I understand what kind of market understanding you have got! Influencers and tech analysis is method of marketing for both crypto and real world stock market. That didn't make the stock market look like a ponzi scam so how come crypto market has become a ponzi scam?


Yes absolutely! That's how the earth is and so the people around you with common life goals. That's how we live here and continue doing so! No change will be bestowed upon us! So I am not trusting you as per your suggestions.

Did you invest in bitcoin during late 2017??

of course every party pushes the fake news trash that suits its agenda there is no neutrality.

in the end the jews might be right, and all the worlds activity is in the hands of the powerful sith lords that use the force to shape things.....

in certain condisions there are strategic buybacks in tandem with the media to attract the fomo dogs.

regards

---

On a more serious note, apart from sudden moves at inflection points I think the influence of TA is rather limited. Otherwise it'd be a sign that TA actually works.

I believed the OP add to his statement which is another form of market manipulation as I'm consider because bot trading cost $19 to $150 per month. Aside that, every experienced cryptoneir already knew that cointelegraph, whales, fake crypto enthusiasts etc fabricated stories sometimes in other to maniplate the market.


Some people don't know that Technical analysis is just a way of evaluate the trend poses by the market price and volume level. This why some people believed trading and gambling are somehow similar.

Everyone knows that TA in itself is really not an accurate tool to describe the future events in a market. It is a good indicator to position yourself on a given trend, though it isn't all that you need in trading. If someone sold you their own TA, then probably they are trying to instill something on your mind that the scenario they have is what's gonna happen, you should believe otherwise. The ones that are making money off of the droughts of the market are the ones selling their own predictions to the uneducated, and that's been going on for quite a long time now too.

You can call every investment a pyramid/ ponzi scheme.  The ones that get in early make tons of money while new investors often lose money and buy near the peak.  Bitcoin is still looking good compared to the overpriced stock market and the overpriced real estate market.

Bitcoin is not ponzi but the market is ponzi. It's a passive ponzi scheme. People blind still.

Enough. I will never be in Bitcointalk again. People are not appreciate truth here.

Good luck and dream moon tonight!

Bye.

The algorithms are trained with closed source data (Banking data, Offline data, the list goes on). you need to understand data science. I'm not selling anything neither promoting any bots. We don't use bots at all. The computers we're using don't have a display and they are really optimized to get maximum results . No bruh not even Intel  and we don't do day trading.

For day trading, HFT firms do this. I know Chumberland do HFT.

Your point being?

TA ist hokum.
Trying to find patterns in random walks has the same, solid, evidence-based foundation as
- Astrology
- Homeopathy
- Dowsing
- Clairvoyance
etc., etc.

If anything, not TA itself is manipulation; selling TA to others is.


https://xkcd.com/2101/

We never know the truth, but the facts is, there are someone or somebody (individual whales/groups) that wants to manipulate the market price of each coins mostly bitcoin, i dont care about the ratings in coindesk and cointelegraph or what so ever because money can buy anything, meaning millionaire's are becoming more billionaire in this kind of bussiness.

Oh boy. I expect more attacks from people like you. Where did I state that I used TA to predict price? Show me one piece of sentence.
Kiddo, TA are here since hundred years and everyone knows it's manipulative tool because one whale can pay any TA authors to show here where price goes. TA pay role in manipulation. 
I never lied anyone. I speak from my heart and honestly. I do not want to have fight with gamblers and shills.
1 billion is not my own money kiddo. It's our investors money. You can also start own one but I spouse many people here lack financial literacy. 

Regarding Coindesk and Cointelegraph, you don't need thousands of money here. All need 20k. your logic does not make any sense. They have thousands of articles. so 20k x ====== ?!? guess.
 
Tim bull is reputable?  Yo kiddo, he have his own fund as-well. He put prices as he want. He also play role in this whole ponzi giant scheme.
Again, Bitcoin is not ponzi but the market it's. The market need more surveillance tools.

Oh dude. Where did I state that I loose money? I did not state that. I just said the nature of current market. Of course I never loose single satoshi cent.  Our aum performance is much higher than other funds because we have right data sources and right tools.

I also did not dump and pump altcoins. In fact I never focused on altcoins. Where did I say that?

You so pathetic. I talk about Bitcoins.

I will listen to OP because he runs a 1 billion + crypto fund and yet has taken a few minutes to present us with these rarest of black pearls of wisdom.

Why are we always making a fuss about sponsored content? Traditional media does it. Respected publications do it. Some academic journals have even been known to do it. Certainly most scientific mainstream publications do it.

I don't necessarily agree, but hey, we're paying $4k for bits and bytes, so why shouldn't people pay BTC's ATH for millions of readers?

Why are we whining again?

The pump and the whales are the manipulators and not TA. The whales create artificial information in form of news to cause traders to panic as a result, take hasty decisions in the market.

TA is always on it own and would have totally been controlling the market direction if not the manipulations coming from whales and big players like the banks.

Corrupt? Do you even know the amount fo traffic those sites have? They probably get around 8-figures of monthly traffic so asking that much to publish an article that'll reach hundreds of thousands of readers sounds like a fair deal. The content of the article is a whole different story.

So, you shit on TA for trying to predict the price (which isn't the main purpose of TA, as @mjglqw pointed out), but then you go and do this:


Hmm, I wonder, who should I trust? The TA from a reputable person on CNBC, or some random stranger on the internet that's probably lying about running a 1 billion + crypto hedge fund?...Geez, I'm in a bit of a pickle right here (:

Yeah, starting with you.

your business (if we can all it that) is failing because you chose a dumb thing to spend your time and money on. "crypto hedge fund" doesn't mean anything when 90% of altcoins are in fact shitcoins and the only way they go up and down is through pumps and dumps. in which case TA doesn't even apply so your whole argument here is moot.

this is another reason for your failures. you are not familiar with this market yet you insist on thinking you are an expert in it.
pumps have been happening all along even when you started losing money at the beginning of 2018! it is just that the newbies left and the big top X altcoins stopped getting pumped.

so stop blaming TA, bots, whales, aliens,... and stop being involved with pump and dump altcoins

I mean, it isn't new that news are potentially being used for manipulation, and I also really see that it's very very possible some YouTube TA-ers potentially going bullish just to potentially manipulate the prices upward, but I really don't know about the "special fingerprinting algorithms" and the "$5000/mo trading bot" you're claiming to have.

I personally don't do TA, but TA isn't really for predicting prices. TA is just used as a guide to be able to see if the odds are in your favor or not, regardless how big or small the probability percentages are.

I agree with you that the basis of the cryptocurrency market is manipulation. The trend of prices on all the exchanges specify trading bots. We don't even know if they actually have that many coins to bet on or if it's just the numbers we see. The main volume of sales of crypto is done outside the exchanges. But I'm not sure that bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme. I believe in the future of bitcoin but after the opportunity to buy and sell it for dollars, it became subject to those who have a lot of dollars. They dictate prices and easily manipulate the market.

I can prove. Easy.

What will be the next price in one quarter?
Who predicted last 2017 Dec's 20k price using TA?

Ask them. You can't use TA in trading. it sucks. you always end up losing using funny cups. Those TA gurus are so funny. They hate to hear truth. Fearful.

Your friends maybe lying you using TA as a coverup method. No one sell money for money. Same goes for strategy.

In CNBC, I know fat scammer always say price go to 200k, 20k, 50k, 10k, 5k using TA ahahahhahahah guess who is   Dog timmy

Trading need data and it involve various data sources. Sure, one can use Google trends as a data source and make some profit but it's not long-term run as google vulnerable to automated keyword searching bots. So you gotta to find more data sources and clustering them. Data means money. TA means losers. TA is same as Casinos. It maybe have random chances but not much accurate.

My fellow Hedge funds, Quanta funds never ever use TA to trade.  TA is a method to fool people. Some using them as a coverup and some are using them as a manipulative tool. Coverup means they wanna to hide their real strategy.

My 2 cents. If something so hard to understand then it's never ever work.

Two sides of a coin. A usual thing  Even from a philosophical point of view the Truth is quite subjective.

Everything is a lie 
I never got those TA anyway 

Each person has his own truth. Why do you think that it is your truth that deserves more confidence than the truth of other people? I know people who successfully trade for many years using technical analysis. Try to prove to them that they have been wrong all this time and technical analysis is a lie. It seems to me that if technical analysis has existed for so many years and many people have successfully used it, then it has the right to life. Otherwise, he would have gone down in history. I believe that there are certain mathematical algorithms by which patterns can be determined. Of course, the fact that big players can play against technical analysis is quite likely. But this is a market, anything happens here.

I want to expose the truth for all of you. Technical analysis is an another form of manipulation. First of all, I run a 1 billion + crypto hedge fund and we know that TA's and news being used to manipulate your brains.  Those are either promoted by pump & dump people or whales. Big TA sites like tradingview.com offer their visitors insights data for million bucks which can be used to gain lots of insights.

Sites like Coindesk and Cointelegraph has corrupt authors who offer to write articles at $20,000.00 price tag. Usually, bigger whales hire Phd Physiology graduates to research and write articles then send to those corrupt authors for publication.

We do have special fingerprinting algorithms to detect fake news in crypto sphere and the other dangerous manipulation is trading bots/software. The trading bot/software authors offer data from their software users usually at $5000.00 monthly price tag.


My honest opinion is the bitcoin market is an another ponzi scheme. Bitcoin it-self not a ponzi scheme but the market is...........

The next pump is planned to take place in Q1-Q2 range. I do have contacts with whales and manipulators. What they want is Institutional people but it's another marketing and hope hype.  Whether it's Institutional or not, the expected pump will increase price upto $11,000 and back to $100.00.


This is my final warning. Don't trust anybody. The earth is an another shit hole. No alien will meet us