Tesla and market manipulation crime | Bitcointalksearch.org

seoincorporation

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Let's take this topic back to life because he did it again...

16 hours ago he made a post on twitter with the title 'Tesla & Bitcoin', the tweet is the next one:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1392602041025843203

And there he posts the next photo where he explains how tesla will stop accepting bitcoin...

We all can guess what happens after that.

Boom, -10% in the past 24h and I still think we can call that market manipulation.

SimpleMan

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Quote from: kryptqnick on May 08, 2021, 11:00:05 AM

Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

Honestly, I didn't know that pump and dump was illegal. I mean, surely it's a morally questionable and harmful strategy, but making it illegal seems a little far-fetched to me. And isn't it what guys on Wall Street do all the time? Isn't it how trading largely works?
In any case, Tesla invested in BTC and announced it. This definitely doesn't qualify as anything illegal. And any company has the right to cash out on investments whenever they see fit.
Besides, Bitcoin is not low on trading volume, so I don't think investments into it can lead to legal action.

I agree and it is only so controversial because it's about Elon Musk. If it was some average dude with maybe just a hundred million net worth nobody would even be discussing such tweets. I fully agree that it's controversial but so what? Send Musk to jail for communicating his opinion? It is a problematic case but he wouldn't b doing what he is doing if he wasn't certain that nothing can be done to him in terms of manipulation and the applicable laws.

Yamifoud

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Quote from: acener on May 09, 2021, 06:49:47 AM

They didn't manipulate it they invested on it and sold when they already reach the profit that they want.
So if a whale sold some of their coin it would be considered as manipulation crime?
They just announced their investment they didn't force others to invest on it,
Everyone who invested after Tesla joins did it on their own and they could also follow the path and sell their crypto.

Perhaps, it was their choice to invest in Bitcoin, not by following Elon Musk. And that fact that Elon is rich and is too far to compare to ourselves. He has a kind of vision that we never have and he has the potential to influence the market if he wants, nobody can stop that since this is a free market and definitely, it wasn't a crime.
But I believe that OP does not literally give the meaning of manipulation is a crime unless if Elon did this to fraud others and brings the life of people to become miserable which I never saw it.

ene1980

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 10, 2021, 09:26:31 AM

You are not getting the point mate, I'm not talking about the fact that tesla allows bitcoin payments for their cars, I'm talking about the fact that they bought $1.5B of btc and when the coin hit the moon they sold 10% of that stack.

It is called trading, then what do you think these investors should do, when they think they had enough profit they will book the profit and there is nothing illegal about it.

Quote from: seoincorporation on May 10, 2021, 09:26:31 AM

If this is the case, then why John McAfee gets charged with fraud over cryptocurrency? even if cryptos are not considered money, people can make fraud with it, and people can make market manipulation with it.

John McAfee is a proven scammer, he took money from scammers and promised everyone that they are the best projects and faked the genuinity of the project and many investors lost millions and that is the reason he is charged with fraud.

seoincorporation

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Quote from: Rkss4 on May 08, 2021, 12:58:40 PM

Tesla company which accepted bitcoin as their payments systems but why Tesla manipulation consider it crimes. Elon musk accepted bitcoin as exchange by tesla but he doesn't force anybody to buy Tesla with bitcoin.

You are not getting the point mate, I'm not talking about the fact that tesla allows bitcoin payments for their cars, I'm talking about the fact that they bought $1.5B of btc and when the coin hit the moon they sold 10% of that stack.

Quote from: concept2 on May 09, 2021, 06:26:29 AM

Bitcoin is not a recognized asset by any authorities. Most brokers and exchange in US only provide you tools and network to access bitcoin trading so I do not think that Tesla will be responsible for that issue

If this is the case, then why John McAfee gets charged with fraud over cryptocurrency? even if cryptos are not considered money, people can make fraud with it, and people can make market manipulation with it.

Ecol

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Tesla or Elon has a lot of bitcoins. So he will make moves to praise bitcoin and ethereum. I think he sells it when he's quiet. As an example, we can give April 24, in that big fall, Elon did not speak up.

tygeade

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

I think making it public is something that they are supposed to do, they shouldn’t keep their investment in Bitcoin a private. And there are other big institutions too that have been making investments before Tesla, and we don’t know how far with them. We are all keeping an eye on Tesla because it’s a very popular company with the influence of Elon Musk.

When they first made this their investment I was telling my friends that it’s not going to be something they will hold forever, there will still come a time that they will decide to sell it. They have sold 10% and now 90% left, we don’t know what’s next.

acener

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They didn't manipulate it they invested on it and sold when they already reach the profit that they want.
So if a whale sold some of their coin it would be considered as manipulation crime?
They just announced their investment they didn't force others to invest on it,
Everyone who invested after Tesla joins did it on their own and they could also follow the path and sell their crypto.

concept2

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Bitcoin is not a recognized asset by any authorities. Most brokers and exchange in US only provide you tools and network to access bitcoin trading so I do not think that Tesla will be responsible for that issue

ILuckyGuyI

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Quote from: Ryker1 on May 08, 2021, 04:56:39 PM

Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on May 08, 2021, 04:20:13 PM

It was really a big manipulation when they bought BTC worth $1.5 billion. I liked it actually as it was in a good way. But I don't want to miss the point here because it shows how easy the market can be manipulated. I wonder whether this will change but I don't think so.

Well, as you can see and I respect what your point is, but for me, there is no manipulating the price there, it is a big investor who also wants to keep and hold because they saw that it has the potential to gain profit in a long run and even how big the fund they will invest, that is a small amount for them. Perhaps they are just simple investors like us but only for a small amount that can afford. But if you are talking with Elon Musk's side, it could be he wants to shill his token and bitcoin as well.

Yeah, I know that his goal is not just manipulating the market. Tesla made that huge investment due to they saw a potential in Bitcoin of course. But even if that was not on purpose, they manipulated the price very easily. As long as the price increases in such situations there won't be so many people who will oppose, but in an opposite scenario, it will be too bad for the investors.

scarface97

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I don't think tesla manipulates the cryptocurrency market. As Tesla invests in cryptocurrencies, the cryptocurrency market can rise even more. Thanks to tesla and elon musk, people can be more aware of cryptocurrencies. he devotes a lot of time to them tesla and elon musk. I don't think it's a crime.

Ryker1

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Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on May 08, 2021, 04:20:13 PM

It was really a big manipulation when they bought BTC worth $1.5 billion. I liked it actually as it was in a good way. But I don't want to miss the point here because it shows how easy the market can be manipulated. I wonder whether this will change but I don't think so.

Well, as you can see and I respect what your point is, but for me, there is no manipulating the price there, it is a big investor who also wants to keep and hold because they saw that it has the potential to gain profit in a long run and even how big the fund they will invest, that is a small amount for them. Perhaps they are just simple investors like us but only for a small amount that can afford. But if you are talking with Elon Musk's side, it could be he wants to shill his token and bitcoin as well.

ILuckyGuyI

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It was really a big manipulation when they bought BTC worth $1.5 billion. I liked it actually as it was in a good way. But I don't want to miss the point here because it shows how easy the market can be manipulated. I wonder whether this will change but I don't think so.

mindrust

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Lots of people hate Elon lately because the coin he pumped mainly (which is doge) sucked value out of the other alts and btc. Crypto ain't stocks and they are not regulated by the SEC yet as far as I know so I don't if what Elon is doing deserves to get punished.

If he was telling people the same stuff about Apple stocks then it would have been a different story probably. Elon also showed us that any coin can raise to the top. Its project, its past, its devs don't matter at all. One billionaire can manipulate everything.

AniviaBtc

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Quote from: Little Mouse on May 01, 2021, 09:54:25 AM

I don't think this can be considered as pump and dumo fraud. Tesla has bought bitcoin long ago, possibly around $30k per BTC. They didn’t sold all of their holding even. According to the article you shared, "if someone pump the price intentionally to increase the liquidity so that they can sell their holding, can be considered as fraud."
So, I think, tesla has no chance here to get punished.
On a side note, I think Elon Musk is having such fraud activity with Dogecoin if he is selling his DOGE.

Elon Musk will probably not do that as it will destroy his legitimacy and his reputation towards DOGE coin because if he do that, that means that he is just doing it for himself and not for other people. Also that signifies that he is just a fraud and just trolling in twitter by fooling people.

Still do your own research so that you are not strongly affected by these schemes.

Rkss4

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Tesla company which accepted bitcoin as their payments systems but why Tesla manipulation consider it crimes. Elon musk accepted bitcoin as exchange by tesla but he doesn't force anybody to buy Tesla with bitcoin.

pawanjain

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

I don't think that can be considered as market manipulation because Tesla didn't tell anybody else to buy bitcoin.
The company had bought bitcoin for itself and sold the 10% of the holding when they wanted to.
If the people are reacting to their trades then it's not Tesla's fault right. We can't blame them for buying bitcoin.

$crypto$

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Quote from: pinggoki on May 08, 2021, 10:08:26 AM

To those who really has the knowledge in crypto, they know that Elon Musk and the Tesla is just manipulating bitcoin especially the market in which they just want to earn and take more profit by hyping and hyping it to other people so that the price or the value of it to the market goes up and up. To be honest not all in the crypto wants the manipulation that has been doing by the Tesla and its founder Elon because of this market manipulation many people being manipulate and don't know how they will get back their money who has been invested on a very high amount of bitcoin.

We do not know if it is true that they completely manipulate so that many people are hypnotized by it? there is no legal basis in this case maybe everyone can do it but this is still a secret, we know Elon Musk's tweets are always controversial, even many are waiting for what is said in these tweets, therefore we must know that the market is moving on its own and no whale can control all of his this is just a blow to those who want to buy less.
And only Tesla's investments are in the opinion right now everywhere.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

Honestly, I didn't know that pump and dump was illegal. I mean, surely it's a morally questionable and harmful strategy, but making it illegal seems a little far-fetched to me. And isn't it what guys on Wall Street do all the time? Isn't it how trading largely works?
In any case, Tesla invested in BTC and announced it. This definitely doesn't qualify as anything illegal. And any company has the right to cash out on investments whenever they see fit.
Besides, Bitcoin is not low on trading volume, so I don't think investments into it can lead to legal action.

MrcMrc

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Quote from: rhomelmabini on May 08, 2021, 10:20:25 AM

Quote from: pinggoki on May 08, 2021, 10:08:26 AM

To those who really has the knowledge in crypto, they know that Elon Musk and the Tesla is just manipulating bitcoin especially the market in which they just want to earn and take more profit by hyping and hyping it to other people so that the price or the value of it to the market goes up and up. To be honest not all in the crypto wants the manipulation that has been doing by the Tesla and its founder Elon because of this market manipulation many people being manipulate and don't know how they will get back their money who has been invested on a very high amount of bitcoin.

Only noobs and FOMO guys will buy there calls now I think the law of diminishing returns finally hit on him, the tweets doesn't that much of a show right now. Though most of his followers are permabulls, I am not saying that it is not good for this market but I think he should refrain from it anymore. We just don't know he states a bull tweet yet he sold some of his assets that's totally bias considering the space isn't yet regulated.

Tesla as a company is just taking advantage of the present market and that is all that cryptocurrency investment is about, the fact is Elon Musk will constantly continue to tweets to support whatever coin he is holding.

rhomelmabini

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Quote from: pinggoki on May 08, 2021, 10:08:26 AM

To those who really has the knowledge in crypto, they know that Elon Musk and the Tesla is just manipulating bitcoin especially the market in which they just want to earn and take more profit by hyping and hyping it to other people so that the price or the value of it to the market goes up and up. To be honest not all in the crypto wants the manipulation that has been doing by the Tesla and its founder Elon because of this market manipulation many people being manipulate and don't know how they will get back their money who has been invested on a very high amount of bitcoin.

Only noobs and FOMO guys will buy there calls now I think the law of diminishing returns finally hit on him, the tweets doesn't that much of a show right now. Though most of his followers are permabulls, I am not saying that it is not good for this market but I think he should refrain from it anymore. We just don't know he states a bull tweet yet he sold some of his assets that's totally bias considering the space isn't yet regulated.

pinggoki

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To those who really has the knowledge in crypto, they know that Elon Musk and the Tesla is just manipulating bitcoin especially the market in which they just want to earn and take more profit by hyping and hyping it to other people so that the price or the value of it to the market goes up and up. To be honest not all in the crypto wants the manipulation that has been doing by the Tesla and its founder Elon because of this market manipulation many people being manipulate and don't know how they will get back their money who has been invested on a very high amount of bitcoin.

Taskford

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Quote from: Maslate on May 08, 2021, 06:52:43 AM

Quote from: CaVO32 on May 07, 2021, 06:55:49 PM

Quote from: Rruchi man on May 07, 2021, 01:52:49 PM

Bitcoin still remain decentralised and is opened to every level of investor irrespective of your purchasing power. To me i feel he took advantage of the trend and also utilized his funds wisely by investing in a project he believed would secure a lasting future both for him and his company alike. Tesla shouldn't be blamed here assuming you owned the company or you happend to be the CEO you would have bought more

I am also with you here. In this market, everyone is free what to do with their funds. It is just that, Tesla is a big company with huge investments in bitcoin. So every little movement they will take, will be under the microscope of many people. But come to think of it, they are just one of the businesses that are into crypto. So whatever they feel will give them better opportunity, they will take it. So for me, I don't think it is a market manipulating but just taking advantage of the opportunity, and I guess, it will be the same for all of us. If you have the opportunity, why not take it, right?

You can't blame some people for thinking that Musk uses his influence to manipulate the market.

Maybe they have not ridden with hype yet or missed the DOGE hype which already makes a lot of investors earn a big profit.

Tesla is own by Elon, he is one of the richest in the world, his popularity and influence are big, so he should be careful with his statement, hyping the market might attract the newbie to invest blindly which they will just panic once the correction happens.

Actually he has a background of same doing but this is on tesla stock read this https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Technology/wireStory/tesla-shareholder-suit-elon-musk-tweets-remains-hold-70775549

I'm thinking that he stop doing that on their stock and change it on crypto especially on Doge since no one can sue him there if he want to do a certain hyping or manipulation on the said coin.

Although many people got a huge profit with it still you are at risk if you aim to hold for more longer years since we really don't know on when Elon or other rich comrades will dump their coin so for newbies don't buy at FOMO to avoid losing your money.

MIner1448

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There was definitely a manipulation and everyone knows about it, but there is nothing transcendental to my opinion, because Elon manipulated thanks to his name and the brand that brought him a lot of money. He's a handsome man, I can't say anything, he earned so beautifully, in his own name, he is my idol;)

Lorence.xD

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Quote from: Bilgent on May 07, 2021, 02:38:04 PM

This is absolutely a market manipulation of course. We've seen how much the market was affected by Tesla's buying a lot of BTCs. Bitcoin price just literally went to the moon after it. But I don't think that Tesla will be charged for it. It is the nature of this market in the end, it's easily manipulable.

I guess they just have to get away with it, this is the shortcomings of decentralization, people can commit insane stunts without consequences. Now that I look at his manipulation, I think that we can use it to our advantage if we know when they are going to pump it.

Maslate

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Quote from: CaVO32 on May 07, 2021, 06:55:49 PM

Quote from: Rruchi man on May 07, 2021, 01:52:49 PM

Bitcoin still remain decentralised and is opened to every level of investor irrespective of your purchasing power. To me i feel he took advantage of the trend and also utilized his funds wisely by investing in a project he believed would secure a lasting future both for him and his company alike. Tesla shouldn't be blamed here assuming you owned the company or you happend to be the CEO you would have bought more

I am also with you here. In this market, everyone is free what to do with their funds. It is just that, Tesla is a big company with huge investments in bitcoin. So every little movement they will take, will be under the microscope of many people. But come to think of it, they are just one of the businesses that are into crypto. So whatever they feel will give them better opportunity, they will take it. So for me, I don't think it is a market manipulating but just taking advantage of the opportunity, and I guess, it will be the same for all of us. If you have the opportunity, why not take it, right?

You can't blame some people for thinking that Musk uses his influence to manipulate the market.

Maybe they have not ridden with hype yet or missed the DOGE hype which already makes a lot of investors earn a big profit.

Tesla is own by Elon, he is one of the richest in the world, his popularity and influence are big, so he should be careful with his statement, hyping the market might attract the newbie to invest blindly which they will just panic once the correction happens.

CaVO32

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Quote from: Rruchi man on May 07, 2021, 01:52:49 PM

Bitcoin still remain decentralised and is opened to every level of investor irrespective of your purchasing power. To me i feel he took advantage of the trend and also utilized his funds wisely by investing in a project he believed would secure a lasting future both for him and his company alike. Tesla shouldn't be blamed here assuming you owned the company or you happend to be the CEO you would have bought more

I am also with you here. In this market, everyone is free what to do with their funds. It is just that, Tesla is a big company with huge investments in bitcoin. So every little movement they will take, will be under the microscope of many people. But come to think of it, they are just one of the businesses that are into crypto. So whatever they feel will give them better opportunity, they will take it. So for me, I don't think it is a market manipulating but just taking advantage of the opportunity, and I guess, it will be the same for all of us. If you have the opportunity, why not take it, right?

Bilgent

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This is absolutely a market manipulation of course. We've seen how much the market was affected by Tesla's buying a lot of BTCs. Bitcoin price just literally went to the moon after it. But I don't think that Tesla will be charged for it. It is the nature of this market in the end, it's easily manipulable.

ModelT

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Getting long and getting loud has been a commonly accepted tactic on Wall Street. Musk has made some questionable tweets about Tesla shares https://mattelston.com/2021/02/10/elon-musk-a-reverse-psychology-genius/ (as well as his going private at $420/share tweet)
and been chastised by the SEC .

In the case of crypto, I think Tesla backed the wrong coin,
https://mattelston.com/2021/03/24/teslas-bitcoin-folies/
but if the SEC gave Musk only a slap on the wrist for past tweets involving his own company, its likely they will go even lighter re btc.

Rruchi man

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Bitcoin still remain decentralised and is opened to every level of investor irrespective of your purchasing power. To me i feel he took advantage of the trend and also utilized his funds wisely by investing in a project he believed would secure a lasting future both for him and his company alike. Tesla shouldn't be blamed here assuming you owned the company or you happend to be the CEO you would have bought more

virasog

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Quote from: xianbits on May 05, 2021, 06:31:39 PM

Tesla company is just being wise in this aspect. The company is taking advantage of its influencing power not just for their advantage but for everyone. For me, no crime has been involved here. They opened to the public their investment decisions and it's up to the people to when will they stop riding.

Tesla has not scammed anyone. If they openly told their investment decisions and other people are following it then what's fault in it. They never force anyone to copy the same investment strategy. I think this may be called manipulation but its not illegal as the big players have enough money and influence to move the market and that is what Tesla tends to do.

Weawant

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Elon Musk is too equipped with accountants and lawyers on his payroll system to move with loopholes on his decisions. Surely, before he made their move he was able to seek consultation to his legal and accounting team so they can execute it without any penalties.

That’s how great executives work. Like Elon Musk have all the money to seek consultancy so I don’t think he would do it without the ignorance to the law.

Tesla was just one fo the products Elon Musk was able to produce with his cleverness and ability to get a very good team members with him. And I don’t think he will let that company go down just because of market manipulation which we know that he can totally influence without moving a single finger.

Kasabus

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We actually never know and recognize Tesla if not because of Elon Musk. That is the real sentiment now, it adds to the hypes in the market but that is not enough to say it was a sort of manipulation, neither we call it as a crime. Because if tried to figure it out, Tesla never ask and force people to adopt and invest Bitcoin, it was the mindset of the people to invest because they saw big companies are already there.

And besides, we are already in the bullish season before Tesla has arrive together with Elon Musk.

elisabetheva

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Quote from: jerrison on May 05, 2021, 06:22:47 PM

tesla has been involved in so much technological innovation and i pwersonally give them credits for their innovations as loads of their works are ecofriendly and also presents loads of job opportunity and also the privilege of other technologies to thrive on the already existing tech brand. I do not consider it as involved in any form of manipulation in the market.

It is so interesting that a large company like Tesla is in the spotlight with its performance in other areas and I think it is their right, to innovate in their finances by buying bitcoin for investment. just like other companies investing in stocks or gold.

I agree with you, that Tesla is doing so much innovation that is connected to environmentally friendly and it seems that the Tesla trend has attracted many people to be able to accept what is done by helping to buy it. resulting in what he does produce for Tesla himself, it is only natural to finally accept the results of his work so that currently Tesla is included in the ranks of the best.

Regarding manipulation, I cannot give any response that might differ from one another, as long as it does not violate the law it seems legitimate.

affandi

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Tesla invested US $1.5 billion in Bitcoin in February and then reduced its holdings by 10%. This has had a positive impact with the cryptocurrency contributing US $101 million to Tesla's profitability.

CFO or master of coin Tesla Zach Kirkhorn reveals the reason for this Elon Musk electric car company. According to him, the company believes Bitcoin will live a long life despite its volatility.

Tesla sold 10% of its bitcoins in Q1 to maintain bitcoin liquidity.

bitcoin is a highly volatile asset, I think there is no manipulation in bitcoin and cannot be manipulated, a lot of bad news and good news in crypto, this should only be good news

arapgeceleri

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Many big companies like Tesla invest in bitcoin. we are in favor of these big companies investing more. Big companies investing in this market is a healthy development for the cryptocurrency market. increases trust and attracts investors. But Tesla and Elon Musk seem to be trying to manage this situation differently lately. They act like the market leaders and think they can move the market as they wish. this manipulation is undesirable for us.

xianbits

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Tesla company is just being wise in this aspect. The company is taking advantage of its influencing power not just for their advantage but for everyone. For me, no crime has been involved here. They opened to the public their investment decisions and it's up to the people to when will they stop riding.

jerrison

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tesla has been involved in so much technological innovation and i pwersonally give them credits for their innovations as loads of their works are ecofriendly and also presents loads of job opportunity and also the privilege of other technologies to thrive on the already existing tech brand. I do not consider it as involved in any form of manipulation in the market.

Alucard1

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I don't think that Tesla has done market manipulation with the price of bitcoin, they bought bitcoin before when its price is only $30k and now it is at $58k, I don't think that they have done something manipulating on it because they have not sell their bitcoin yet but according to the tweet of Elon Musk, Tesla had sold their 10% of bitcoin but that is still not a market manipulation as they have not sold all of their bitcoin.

Sircoss

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Perhaps Tesla is involved in crypto manipulation, but can we somehow influence this?

yazher

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That's ain't fraud for my own understanding as long as they didn't sell everything after they announced it. It's normal that they sold that much because they need some assurance to take some of their investment. Small investors have been making a profit from their huge investment last time so it's not really right to put the blame on them for this so-called price manipulation. I think right now, they just need to be careful because all eyes are on them when they sold all of their BTC. I think next time if a big company will put its money on BTC, they won't gonna announce it since they will face these kinds of accusations.

bocyaj

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

The tesla had done the action of the whales in the market.It was a quite common factor in most of trading platform.Which includes the stock market investment.I don't think,they will charged for this action.They will had a capacity to defend themselves.Investment of 10% of bitcoin on their altcoin will be the master move of them,which should be appreciated.

Ziskinberg

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

Had someone in here have been charged with that? There is nothing right?
May we say it was a manipulation but Tesla did nothing to force people to do that, it was their well to do it and invest in Bitcoin and definitely, it wasn't a crime. Because if that will be the case and manipulation is already a crime, then many project developers must be taken into prison. But nothing, unless it was very clear enough that the project is fake and fraudulent.

vennali

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

It sure does sound like it but there are a lot of companies that do similar "investments" that are made public which in itself isnt a fraud. Neither is cashing out when ATH and that didnt really dump the price either, so you cant really call it a dump. A strong case could have been made if the BTC price collapsed right when they sold BTC. I however do think Elon Musk is responsible for manipulating Doge and he should be held accountable for it.

nelson4lov

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Quote from: ene1980 on May 02, 2021, 06:12:44 PM

Quote from: nelson4lov on May 02, 2021, 05:56:46 PM

~Snipped

~
Elon Musk never cared about his company trading value and have you seen him manipulating that market as well Grin

and if that is the case do you think he will care any less for the cryptocurrency market.

Even though what he's doing isn't outright market manipulation, it's still to be seen that newbies are jumping on his tweets to buy anything he tweets about since he tweets does get enough tractions. Well, each to their own. It's up to anyone that decides to fomo into any he tweets about. Most people who bought tokens based off "crypto influencers" recommendations in the past ended up losing more than they gain. Let's see how everything plays out though. Tesla and Elon Musk are just out to make money, nothing more. Not like they like Bitcoin... They already have $TSLA.

decodx

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Quote from: avikz on May 03, 2021, 10:36:51 AM

It is indeed a market manipulation that Elon has done. Not just with bitcoin but also with dogecoin. He never indeed spoke about his dogecoin holding but I assume he must have invested few millions personally in dogecoin and then manipulated the price through his immensely popular twitter handle and booked a good amount of profit.

If the Financial Fraud Investigation Agency starts an investigation around such allegation, he will find that true!

These are all wild guesses. We don't know if Musk really owns DOGE, so it's difficult to say that this is a deliberate market manipulation.

Gamerholic

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I do not quite understand what exactly is the manipulation? The fact that they published the fact of the purchase and the head of the company wrote about it on twitter, or because then he sold it? Isn't it the freedom of market relations to buy and sell as much as you want and can? And since it is a public company, the fact that they made it public just to their investors as acting so potential is it a crime? In my opinion, there is some kind of confusion or something I do not understand ...

777Jolami

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

This cannot be evidence to accuse Tesla - Elon is manipulating the market. with 1.5 billion compared to bitcoin's current market cap of approximately 1075 billion? I don't think they are qualified to do that. Although, they are pioneers in the process of driving incentives for institutional investors around the world. Even if they had enough bonds, I thought this possibility would still be unlikely in such an easy direction.

BrewMaster

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i don't think this can be categorized as a "pump and dump" because for it to be that they have to had pumped the coin themselves not just buy it and then tell others that they bought bitcoin. same with the dump. there was no dump in bitcoin, there was just a small correction that didn't even have anything to do with Tesla, their news came way after the drop started. the drop was actually because of the FUD about hashrate drop and panic sell.

perla

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Quote from: avikz on May 03, 2021, 10:36:51 AM

Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

It is indeed a market manipulation that Elon has done. Not just with bitcoin but also with dogecoin. He never indeed spoke about his dogecoin holding but I assume he must have invested few millions personally in dogecoin and then manipulated the price through his immensely popular twitter handle and booked a good amount of profit.

If the Financial Fraud Investigation Agency starts an investigation around such allegation, he will find that true!

This is a reasonable interpretation of the events. I understand where you are coming from since their name influence were used to lure people. But somehow I also wonder based from comments of others that they have the right to do their own will, and is the accusation would really matter here?

avikz

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

It is indeed a market manipulation that Elon has done. Not just with bitcoin but also with dogecoin. He never indeed spoke about his dogecoin holding but I assume he must have invested few millions personally in dogecoin and then manipulated the price through his immensely popular twitter handle and booked a good amount of profit.

If the Financial Fraud Investigation Agency starts an investigation around such allegation, he will find that true!

seoincorporation

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Tesla company knows what are they doing for sure, but the fact that they use social networks to spread the word about their big investment, and the fact that the news was in all the paper news was for sure a manipulation. The number of people who decide to buy bitcoin after tesla did was enormous, and that generates a big bump in the markets. That's why I feel like it was some kind of manipulation. But maybe I'm wrong and the move was totally legit.

dificanovi

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

it is a business opportunity, they are good at taking opportunities to make a profit. for those of us who have bought bitcoin at an expensive price, don't be afraid to hold it because the price of bitcoin will definitely continue to rise, so we'll just look forward to the time. Big companies in the world will also want to buy bitcoin to invest in the long term, so that's when the price of bitcoin will rise even higher and we will make a big profit.

slaman29

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Quote from: ecnalubma on May 02, 2021, 06:52:18 PM

For a big company like Tesla I think they are aware of what they are doing. If they committed a violation then they might knew it somehow, Tesla is not the first big company that too vulgar about their crypto holdings remember that blockchain is a transparent network where every companies crypto holdings is publicised.

Normally I would have reservations about companies knowing what they're doing. Owners in the CEO level and and managers in the operation level are usually very different. One owner can decide things and only inform operations later. And the same thing the other way around.

But in Tesla's case I have to agree, they probably know 100% what they're doing.

hector3115

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Tesla maybe associated with some manipulations in the crypto industry, but rest assured that they are just one of many players.

Torps1

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

In my opinion, I think Tesla as an individual or a company has the right to do what others are also doing(buying and selling of bitcoin) as long as the law within his country permits.
One thing is obvious here, Tesla is a big name(my thought) thus his actions in the market is capable of causing some kind of excitement, that's why the price of bitcoin went up after his $1.5b investment.

Buying bitcoin means that he's in business, and doing business means that profit would be made. He can't keep holding his asset for ever, there will be need to sell his holdings at some point in time, that's what just happened.

davis196

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

So what do you suggest?Tesla buying lots of BTC and keeping it a secret?
I don't know about companies,that are obligated by the law to keep their asset portfolio as a secret.
Does Berkshire Hathaway keep their portfolio a secret?When Warren Buffet buys a stock,the price of that stock goes up for a while,only because Warren Buffet bought a share in that company.Is this a pump&dump?
It looks to me like a pump&dump.Why didn't FBI arrest Warren Buffet then? Grin

wack slacker

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Market manipulation is a deception in trading. Tesla only buys Bitcoin low and sells high. So it is not possible to consider their purchase as manipulation.
If Tesla used their money to make Bitcoin's value rise from $ 30,000 to $ 60,000 across multiple accounts and multiple transactions to generate demand, that's a lie. The Bitcoin market is floating and not only is Tesla invested, but many other hedge funds are also buying Bitcoin so accusing Tesla of manipulating the market seems like a lack of evidence.

ecnalubma

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For a big company like Tesla I think they are aware of what they are doing. If they committed a violation then they might knew it somehow, Tesla is not the first big company that too vulgar about their crypto holdings remember that blockchain is a transparent network where every companies crypto holdings is publicised.

Zemomtum

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John McAfee also promoted scam projected in the year 2017 and the USA government was after him after some years. Tesla does not manipulate BTC alone but also very influential in promoting and messing around crypto market by endorsing Doge Coin. We shall see what will happen after few months ahead

jpnl0006

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Whether the market is being manipulated or not i see it as something that people need to come to terms with, the prices of crypto is volatile and every investor should understand this before investing into crypto.

Twinkledoe

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Quote from: sheenshane on May 02, 2021, 06:28:38 PM

Everyone was happy when Tesla investing Bitcoin because they know that there's a bull trend waving ahead but when is Tesla deciding to sell their Bitcoin, we think now that they're manipulating the market? I don't see market manipulation here because they'd right to decide if when they will sell their Bitcoin and invest back when Bitcoin will become low price.

This is very common in crypto space now, if we think Elon Musk used his popularity because he knows influencing people is very easy, then it's up to them if someone followed him but at least he didn't make promises such as a good return.

I don't consider it also as market manipulation given the fact that it is only small percentage of their bitcoin assets. And besides, that is their assets and they can do whatever they deemed is necessary for the benefit of their company. We can't stop this kind of action as companies who are investing in bitcoin have their own plans or strategies to take advantage of this market. But they will not be the reason of the downfall of bitcoin or crypto, because bitcoin has been here even without their participation in the market.

sheenshane

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Everyone was happy when Tesla investing Bitcoin because they know that there's a bull trend waving ahead but when is Tesla deciding to sell their Bitcoin, we think now that they're manipulating the market? I don't see market manipulation here because they'd right to decide if when they will sell their Bitcoin and invest back when Bitcoin will become low price.

This is very common in crypto space now, if we think Elon Musk used his popularity because he knows influencing people is very easy, then it's up to them if someone followed him but at least he didn't make promises such as a good return.

Jaycee99

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

From my point of view, there is another perspective that can possibly be the reason. The commonly known Buy and Sell procedure some people who hold bitcoin in a big amount are people who bought bitcoin that is the same with Tesla and Elon they just did not make it public.

Also, there is also one reason that can possibly make the big cost of bitcoin price going down is there is a lot of countries today year 2021 banned bitcoin that instead of them seeing value bitcoin. It is shown as a treat to them which definitely made a big impact which is 6 countries when I search the internet/ Google to my surprise its actually a lot from only what I know there is only one country that is Algeria.

Here is a new article about it.
https://medium.datadriveninvestor.com/countries-that-bitcoin-is-banned-in-2021-a29658d4046f

We all know that bitcoin is worldwide so possibly before it was banned there are actually a lot of people who have bitcoin in this country.

ene1980

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Quote from: nelson4lov on May 02, 2021, 05:56:46 PM

~
They are free to buy and sell their holdings at any time time but I feel the way they went about it was wrong. How did they do it?
- Buy bitcoin - newbies join them to buy the top due to fomo.
- Make profits and sell Bitcoin while creating panics amongst those newbies.

- Buy back those bitcoins at $47K during the last correction.

I used to think Elon Musk was against shortsellimg an asset until tesla pulled one off.

Your above statement and your second statement is entirely polar opposite. You said there is nothing wrong in trading but yet you are claiming but they did manipulate the market. It was an huge investment and they are free to do anything with their money and none asked any newbie to join the market and when they invested they never promised to hold for N number of years or days.

Elon Musk never cared about his company trading value and have you seen him manipulating that market as well Grin

and if that is the case do you think he will care any less for the cryptocurrency market.

arwin100

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Quote from: Tomiwa_akin on May 02, 2021, 05:24:19 PM

anyone has the right to sell at any point in time unless there is a law that states how long you can hold before you sell. i dont see it as market manipulation way. even if they are charged, i believe they will win. what abut others that bough without making announcement who would charge them for selling ?

Absolutely they have money invested on it so expect this selling scenario with them although we know how influencial they are I think we should treat their selling time as normal since they are also the same like us where if we already get a profit we sell it. Maybe there's some part that their top person hype it up but for me its normal.

nelson4lov

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

~Snipped

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

Even though Tesla would deny it, they actively participated and manipulated the market. Tesla is one of the last few companies that have invested in bitcoin yet they were one of the first to take out a huge junk of their investments shortly after they saw it appreciate enough for them to take profits. They are free to buy and sell their holdings at any time time but I feel the way they went about it was wrong. How did they do it?

- Buy bitcoin - newbies join them to buy the top due to fomo.
- Make profits and sell Bitcoin while creating panics amongst those newbies.

- Buy back those bitcoins at $47K during the last correction.

I used to think Elon Musk was against shortsellimg an asset until tesla pulled one off.

Tomiwa_akin

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anyone has the right to sell at any point in time unless there is a law that states how long you can hold before you sell. i dont see it as market manipulation way. even if they are charged, i believe they will win. what abut others that bough without making announcement who would charge them for selling ?

akm3535

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It is clear that tesla is doing market manipulation. These large companies have the confidence to lead people with their behavior. It also has the power to direct the market. Therefore, it is a complete manipulation that it makes such high purchases, directs the market, attracts investors and now selling at the new ATC price. it's also the same what elon musk did for dogecoin.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: hugeblack on May 01, 2021, 02:46:06 PM

Is there any reference telling that Tesla has sold 10% of the overalls because and according to the Tweet of MUSK they have not sold any of them BTC.
Generally, even if they sell, btc price is high and if you have purchased since the date of the announcement is still gaining gains and if you have bought from the top $ 64,000, you can not sell and leave the market.

If Bitcoin changing because of news about Tesla, they you should sold all your bitcoins

Don't say bull shits bro, Elon Musk admitted himself on twitter that Tesla had sold 10% of its BTC holdings. He just said he didn't sell himself his own personal BTC holdings but Tesla, his company has sold 272 million USD of bitcoins during the first quarter of 2021.

https://www.coindesk.com/tesla-sold-bitcoin-in-q1-for-proceeds-of-272m

Elon Musk @elonmusk Apr 27
No, you do not. I have not sold any of my Bitcoin. Tesla sold 10% of its holdings essentially to prove liquidity of Bitcoin as an alternative to holding cash on balance sheet.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/elon-musk-says-tesla-sold-bitcoin-to-prove-liquidity-as-cash-alternative/articleshow/82272013.cms

The Great Kardoko

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Promoting an asset without disclosing your position would be considered an offense if that's what you believe he did.

virtualdn

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What Elon Musk is doing with Dogecoin sounds more like market manipulation to me. In the end the Dogecoin bubble may burst and I'm sure not too many will be happy about it. Dogecoin can't grow without pump support.

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Those who are investing in crypto have to deal with the market risks. That is like a statement that enthusiastic newbies forget before they enter.

All the while the market price of BTC and DOGE were rising, nobody seemed to accuse Musk for the same but considered them to be some Cosmic fortune teller. But they have been manipulating the market for a longer time, not today.

And since the SEC does not look into regulation or in fact nobody regulates crypto, this is not coming under any criminal code. Had it been the stock market, things would have been slightly different.

Bottom line for all traders, you are responsible for your trades. Humans tend to blame others for their mistakes but that is a wrong approach in trading.

electronicash

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If it's not Tesla or Elon who bought 1.5B worth of BTC and sold 10% and then bought again, would there be someone we identify he manipulated the market? it's the same situation that we buy at a low price and sell at ATH.

the laws may be different in some countries but a rich man like him could get away if he really violates such law. it could be something else if he sold 100%.

Bitstar_coin

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Quote from: MFahad on May 01, 2021, 11:52:51 PM

Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

Was there any legal requirement and agreement that Tesla will not sell their bitcoin holdings ? I guess No.
So if they sell 10% of the holdings at all time high or sold all of their holdings, no one can charge them for this action. Tesla is a money making organization and hence they can make money by buying selling bitcoin holdings, although morally it is not good.

I don't know why this is an issue, I don't think 10% out of out Tesla's bag of btc is such a bad thing, even if they sell to take profit, they still hold 90% of their investment which is more than okey, between they also provide opportunity to buy Tesla with btc which will increase liquidity.

MFahad

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

Was there any legal requirement and agreement that Tesla will not sell their bitcoin holdings ? I guess No.
So if they sell 10% of the holdings at all time high or sold all of their holdings, no one can charge them for this action. Tesla is a money making organization and hence they can make money by buying selling bitcoin holdings, although morally it is not good.

boyptc

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There is that sense but bitcoin is a decentralized crypto and market, does the FBI will still intervene with that? probably yes, to protect the investors and its people.

But it should be black and white and FBI should collect some serious evidences and proof about it.

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

I think this matters depends on an individual's point of view. Tesla only stated the truth that they invested on Bitcoin and never said anything else. They don't say Bitcoin will increase in x% or will be pump nor hype the market according to their gain. They just release a news that they had invested and there is no lie in it. If their reputation enable other investors to invest heavily in Bitcoin, it isn't Tesla's fault since Tesla never said directly to anyone to buy Bitcoin. The increase of price of Bitcoin is just a natural course of market when one reputable company invested on it.

cryptomaniac_xxx

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Since I started my crypto journey, there have been calls of individuals or what we call whales during market manipulation, but we haven't seen anyone persecuted against this fraudulent practice.

So for me, yeah they could have been manipulating, but can anyone do about it? Go file cases against Tesla or Elon Musk? Maybe what they did doesn't sit with some, but just like every other else, they are here to make profits.

Maslate

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Activity: 2954

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Message @Hhampuz if you are looking for a CM!

First of all, bitcoin is not illegal, and therefore anyone has the right to invest in it given they understand the risk.
They too the risk for investing in crypto, and that's alright, there's no crime on that.

For most of us, maybe we believe that Elon is manipulating the market, though indirectly by using his influence, that's it, that's normal in crypto space, besides he did not promise anything, he just open to the public what he did and the public followed him.

hugeblack

legendary

Activity: 2702

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Is there any reference telling that Tesla has sold 10% of the overalls because and according to the Tweet of MUSK they have not sold any of them BTC.
Generally, even if they sell, btc price is high and if you have purchased since the date of the announcement is still gaining gains and if you have bought from the top $ 64,000, you can not sell and leave the market.

If Bitcoin changing because of news about Tesla, they you should sold all your bitcoins

DoublerHunter

hero member

Activity: 2590

Merit: 644

Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

~snip~
As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

^ I don't think they are subjected to this, they do not involve such pump and dump activity that can make market manipulation.
I don't understand why people blaming others when they have failed of what they invested, because actually, they don't know of what they invested for, as they saw Tesla company was a successful company and what they did, also others do. Nevertheless, in my own opinion, this doesn't have to make sense as we know Tesla company is just a big investor, not a manipulator.

hatshepsut93

legendary

Activity: 3024

Merit: 2148

Buying low and selling high is not market manipulation. Market manipulation is when you single-handedly move the entire market. This isn't the case here, Bitcoin was rising before Musk's tweets, and it would have risen without them too. And the amount disclosed by Tesla is not enough to be responsible behind this entire bull run. Also, you can't say that Tesla or Musk were trying hard to promote Bitcoin or make some false claims to investors about it.

Saint-loup

legendary

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

According to your link from the FBI this criminal offense only applies to securities, then prosecuting Tesla would imply that Bitcoin is an asset belonging to the securities asset class. But AFAIK Bitcoin didn't pass the Howey test.

"Market manipulation fraud—commonly referred to as a “pump and dump”—creates artificial buying pressure for a targeted security, generally a low-trading volume issuer in the over-the-counter securities market largely controlled by the fraud perpetrators."

bL4nkcode

copper member

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Limited in number. Limitless in potential.

So what you mean is, once a company buy or invest stocks/commodities/crypto/company, they should not sell it for the own good of their company? Also, as a company they should be silent when they sell and announce to PR etc when they buy? That doesn't make sense.

I never heard anyone here make a thread about market manipulation when tesla bought bitcoin though tell me if there is.

Stedsm

legendary

Activity: 3052

Merit: 1273

Selling their coins was their right TBH no matter what market manipulation we're talking about, because if someone bought something and released it publicly, doesn't mean he asked anyone to invest and people have their own brain each to DYOR and decide whether to get into Bitcoin or not. It's not a pump and dump, but yeah the impact of Elon's tweets moved BTC so gradually that the volume that we saw while the sellers were selling was good enough because it was weekend and we usually understand that liquidity is less in crypto during weekends, but the bull power! My Gosh? Even if it was a dump by Elon Musk's tweet or himself, the riders rode the dip hard and bought everything they could in FOMO that the move upwards was even better than it was during the crash.

Little Mouse

legendary

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Marketing Campaign Manager |Telegram ID- @LT_Mouse

Quote from: stompix on May 01, 2021, 10:21:46 AM

So should every single r/dogecoin poster that sells even one coin, right?

If they are somehow influencing someone to trick this pump and dump, I think they are also subjected to be fraud. But, r/dogecoin (never visited to be honest) can't be identified and they can never be charged of fraud.
If I'm correct, there was some discussion on the GME stock when it skyrockted from $50 to $300+ overnight.

fiulpro

hero member

Activity: 1890

Merit: 831

Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

They won't be charged for it!
Even if they would be charged they would be asked to pay a little and that's like a drop in the ocean for them.
Elon Musk used his Twitter many times to fluctuate the price and it's not just for bitcoins but for many other ATH also. He exited the market when the price was fluctuating and who knows if he caused it?
A slight problem with having a decentralized network is the lack of a body to take these concerns into account and to organize themselves and take this matter to court. But that does not prevent several small crypto positive organizations to look into this matter and to address it over the internet, which I believe would give people more information about how such big companies are using the investors and the cryptos or shares or any investments alike. This needs to be stopped ! But how is the question. !

Alanaz

member

Activity: 980

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if from my point of view they are more to take some advantage only because with the momentum at that time when bitcoin in new ath only natural if they take advantage of the existing momentum.
it's only taken 10 percent of the total and for me it's not included in the crime because they are also even though big companies are more profit -oriented when there is momentum. just like us

Yogee

sr. member

Activity: 1554

Merit: 413

It would be interesting if someone would actually file a case against Tesla and Elon for buying and selling BTC which is currently an unregulated market unlike stocks. Those who spread FUD against BTC and later found out to have bought for a cheaper price should be accused of market manipulation as well hehe.

Oceat

sr. member

Activity: 2506

Merit: 368

Yeah, market manipulation is a crime but what is the difference of getting some profit of your investment? Is it really bad to make some profit out of your whole investment? I don't think so. What Tesla did is just right but since they did take a total of 10% to their investment then, that would actually make a huge impact on the price. And I don't see something wrong about that because it's their rights to make the trade.

And why these people are angry in Tesla when they did nothing wrong, they just simply make a profit.

Sterbens

sr. member

Activity: 1848

Merit: 341

Duelbits.com

Is it wrong if Bitcoin shows that even Tesla's classmates can be interested in entering the crypto industry with great enthusiasm?
then where do we see the role of the government in full support of Bitcoin? the company always tries to follow the desires of consumers, with that they become an unstoppable part of owning Bitcoin.
I know this looks very clear of market manipulation, but what about the state of Bitcoin which is pushing it every year to become more and more expensive? Tesla is only the smallest part of Bitcoin's growth. because the rest lies with all of you who are trying to become true holders of Bitcoin without being under the auspices of the institution.

BChydro

hero member

Activity: 1426

Merit: 506

Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

It is an open market and no one forced anyone to invest in the market and i cannot understand what kind of crime took place if you are investing in a market and then booking your profit. If they are taking advantage of a situation before the event taking place and then placing huge amounts can be considered as manipulation. Here in this situation they only played by the books, they never announced before hand that they are going to invest in Bitcoin nor did they inform that they are going to book profit beforehand.

Poker Player

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 2017

I agree with the previous comments that accusing Tesla of market manipulation has little traction. Many other companies have done it and are going to do it: first they buy and then, after a while, they report their acquisitions. There is no crime anywhere.

ninkdwi

member

Activity: 364

Merit: 14

Regardless of what Tesla did to market manipulation, the fact is that we traders have had a positive impact on Bitcoin rise this year. indeed this will look unnatural when the market suddenly becomes a boomerang which causes the company to become interested in competing to buy Bitcoin. So I feel the balance between the negative and the positive side of what is going on.

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation

Could be considered by some, but it won't were it matters.
What they did was just what every other investor has done, buy then publish the reports, remember that what people consider the pump was the SEC filling which is an official required statement, plus nobody forces a company to publish in advance what they are going to sell or buy if that would be a law we would see some really weird trading going on.

I don't understand why people are so angry at Tesla right now because they made a profit using bitcoin? Why are 99% in Bitcoin, to help people when the rapture comes, to cure cancer to end poverty, or to make money? They did what almost all of us are doing tweet every day how BTC is great then at one point sell in profit, every single person that has posted how great Bitcoin is in the last 10 years and has sold at least 1 mbt at a profit should be hanged by this reasoning.

Quote from: Little Mouse on May 01, 2021, 09:54:25 AM

On a side note, I think Elon Musk is having such fraud activity with Dogecoin if he is selling his DOGE.

So should every single r/dogecoin poster that sells even one coin, right?

Little Mouse

legendary

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Marketing Campaign Manager |Telegram ID- @LT_Mouse

I don't think this can be considered as pump and dumo fraud. Tesla has bought bitcoin long ago, possibly around $30k per BTC. They didn’t sold all of their holding even. According to the article you shared, "if someone pump the price intentionally to increase the liquidity so that they can sell their holding, can be considered as fraud."
So, I think, tesla has no chance here to get punished.
On a side note, I think Elon Musk is having such fraud activity with Dogecoin if he is selling his DOGE.

seoincorporation

legendary

Activity: 3346

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What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

Topic: Tesla and market manipulation crime (Read 732 times)