Text spinning/disguised plagiarism | Bitcointalksearch.org

Piggy

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Quote from: Quickseller on July 22, 2018, 03:49:09 PM

Well theymos has said multiple times the forum is not in need of money. If this is the case, I don't see why theymos would not subscribe to some kind of plagiarism service.

Further, there are hundreds of thousands active users, and over time, it will become more and more difficult to detect this on any kind of manual basis.....I am not entirely sure how the OP was able to find these examples, but I suspect it would be difficult for someone to read a post and make a determination if said post was "spun" from another post.

I agree with adding more automation as well within the forum, as i was saying before there are several issues that would benefit from this.

The service you linked is probably using machine learning, on this matter, with the quantity and diversity of messages present in the forum, i believe there should be enough data to do other cool.and usefull things as well with a custom system.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Just found these two posts, which were back-to back:

Quote from: Xintenson on July 03, 2018, 09:31:32 PM

Because they turn their brains off, logic off, when they start to dream of good opportunity that pays off. Most people do this for all sorts of things.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Most people do this for all things because people want to be rich, that they start to dream of good oppurtunities.

I reported them for basically saying the same thing, both in the idea and in the words. They're probably alt accounts, but who knows. These morons think nobody's looking at them and that they can get away with this crap.

Here's another from this spam thread:

Quote from: ?? on ??

people can learn if when bad something happened and they can learn from experience. If they can't learn what has happened with them maybe they are is stupid people and hoping can get more.

Quote from: ?? on ??

People learn when something bad happen to them they will make this as their lesson and learn from it just like investing in crypto check first the project know all the people behind it to avoid loss of your money.

Quickseller

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Quote from: Piggy on July 22, 2018, 03:26:55 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on July 22, 2018, 01:21:01 PM

I still don't understand why the forum doesn't use a service like turnitin that complies writings and gives each writing a plagiarism score, and those that score too high can be automatically flagged for review by a moderator.

Is always a question of time and resources.
There are other problems as well which could be "easily" solved by adopting some particular solution server side. On the bright side part of the community is quite active in finding solutions.

Well theymos has said multiple times the forum is not in need of money. If this is the case, I don't see why theymos would not subscribe to some kind of plagiarism service.

Further, there are hundreds of thousands active users, and over time, it will become more and more difficult to detect this on any kind of manual basis.....I am not entirely sure how the OP was able to find these examples, but I suspect it would be difficult for someone to read a post and make a determination if said post was "spun" from another post.

Piggy

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Quote from: Quickseller on July 22, 2018, 01:21:01 PM

I still don't understand why the forum doesn't use a service like turnitin that complies writings and gives each writing a plagiarism score, and those that score too high can be automatically flagged for review by a moderator.

Is always a question of time and resources.
There are other problems as well which could be "easily" solved by adopting some particular solution server side. On the bright side part of the community is quite active in finding solutions.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: krishnapramod on July 22, 2018, 05:39:06 AM

The old fashion way, manually, searching through each and every page.

Doubly good catch, then. I've caught copy/pasters much the same way, but it was never moronic paraphrasing like what you found here--that makes it harder, unless you're reading very closely.

Also, did you report these knuckleheads? It's a pet peeve of mine when people who make good catches like this don't report or don't say that they reported them. I'd be happy to, but I won't if you've already done it.

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on July 22, 2018, 07:18:47 AM

Changing a few words is still stealing the idea of the original author.

It absolutely is. I understand why they do it--most of them probably can't assemble English words into anything that resembles a coherent sentence, so they have to change and reassemble sentences that already exist. Sadly, I think this is a cultural thing with a lot of them. They just don't think it's wrong to do this.

By the way Flying Hellfish, you left the Chipmixer campaign already?

Quickseller

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I still don't understand why the forum doesn't use a service like turnitin that complies writings and gives each writing a plagiarism score, and those that score too high can be automatically flagged for review by a moderator.

My initial reaction of the two reports in the OP was that the spammer read and agreed with and/or had a similar opinion of the person whose post he was copying. However after reading actuallytwolamas' post, I would no longer believe this.

If these posts are in fact being plagiarized, I would have no doubt that a bot is creating these posts.

The anti-plagiarism rules are good in theory, however they fail to address the root cause of the plagiarism. Having anti-plagiarism rules has resulted in moderators simply playing 'wack-a-mole' with spammers who have far greater resources available than the mod team. What needs to happen is we need to remove the underlying incentives to create plagiarized posts.

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on July 22, 2018, 05:06:49 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Vitalik will lessen the reward for excavators by 80%.

WTF? Excavators? I get that it's sort of a synonym for "miners", but these types of posts just make me slap my head. My head actually has red palm prints that I don't think are going to go away.

Good catch, OP. Did you catch these manually or are you using some sort of program? Also, did you report these thieves?

They might be using an online Rephraser/Rewording Tool and copying and pasting the product of it. It seems like this amateur mistakes will make them be easily caught of their wrong doings. These kinds of tools are widely available online however all of them don't work 100% as some words are really not meant to be change just like the mistake you pointed out. Although a lot of the words have been changed you cannot consider this as a paraphrased version of the original post as merely changing the words is not enough to make them officially your own words.

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Quote from: stompix on July 22, 2018, 12:01:50 PM

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on July 22, 2018, 05:06:49 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Vitalik will lessen the reward for excavators by 80%.

WTF? Excavators? I get that it's sort of a synonym for "miners", but these types of posts just make me slap my head. My head actually has red palm prints that I don't think are going to go away.

Surprised?

Quote from: lalunalaguna on June 27, 2018, 01:34:02 AM

As all known mineworker mining new bitcoins as well as affirming the exchanges as well. On the off chance that there is no excavator, at that point individuals can not exchange btc then beyond words.

Quote from: tonyja2017 on January 12, 2018, 06:23:58 AM

On the mining machine, I think it costs a lot of power and reduces the life of the excavator. You should know that a bitcoin digger is not cheap.

Unfortunately, Nicehash has a miner called"excavator" so it's getting annoying searching for that term alone

Quote from: krishnapramod on July 22, 2018, 05:39:06 AM

The old fashion way, manually, searching through each and every page. With the first post it was "floor" with second "80%". Although these disguised posts are difficult to spot than the exact copy/paste, still they do retain some words that stand out. I haven't reported them yet, looking for confirmation if spinned posts that retain 50% of the original should be reported/banned. If that's the case, spammers who think exact copy/paste to be the loophole could be reported.

It's annoying as hell to check those
I try to find some words that have no synonyms and use them in a search as:
"search words" site:btcointalk.org,
but they are posting a lot of crap with small sentences that is so hard to match...
Simple copy pasting can be easily checked but this text spinning needs another way to try and combat it, other than manual labor.

If somebody has an idea for some kind of tool...please share

If you rewrite the below post using Spinbot

Quote from: robocop3 on June 26, 2018, 05:45:49 PM

If miner stop mining then he bc net will go down and btc will die! As all known miner not only mining new bitcoins but also confirming the transactions too.
If there is no miner, then people can not transfer btc then btc die.

Then you will get:

Quote from: lalunalaguna on June 27, 2018, 01:34:02 AM

Quote from: kominfo.id on June 24, 2018, 10:48:27 PM

what if all miner bitcoin stops working does not generate or distributes bitcoin for one day if it could affect bitcoin price?

On the off chance that mineworker quit mining then he bc net will go down and btc will bite the dust! As all known mineworker mining new bitcoins as well as affirming the exchanges as well. On the off chance that there is no excavator, at that point individuals can not exchange btc then beyond words.

It's quite evident that lalunalaguna spun robocop3's post.

LoyceV

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Quote from: stompix on July 22, 2018, 12:01:50 PM

If somebody has an idea for some kind of tool...please share

It would be good if they can just be banned for using very bad English. It often obvious the language is machine-made, but very hard to show conclusive evidence. I'd say that doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

stompix

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on July 22, 2018, 05:06:49 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Vitalik will lessen the reward for excavators by 80%.

WTF? Excavators? I get that it's sort of a synonym for "miners", but these types of posts just make me slap my head. My head actually has red palm prints that I don't think are going to go away.

Surprised?

Quote from: lalunalaguna on June 27, 2018, 01:34:02 AM

As all known mineworker mining new bitcoins as well as affirming the exchanges as well. On the off chance that there is no excavator, at that point individuals can not exchange btc then beyond words.

Quote from: tonyja2017 on January 12, 2018, 06:23:58 AM

On the mining machine, I think it costs a lot of power and reduces the life of the excavator. You should know that a bitcoin digger is not cheap.

Unfortunately, Nicehash has a miner called"excavator" so it's getting annoying searching for that term alone

Quote from: krishnapramod on July 22, 2018, 05:39:06 AM

The old fashion way, manually, searching through each and every page. With the first post it was "floor" with second "80%". Although these disguised posts are difficult to spot than the exact copy/paste, still they do retain some words that stand out. I haven't reported them yet, looking for confirmation if spinned posts that retain 50% of the original should be reported/banned. If that's the case, spammers who think exact copy/paste to be the loophole could be reported.

It's annoying as hell to check those
I try to find some words that have no synonyms and use them in a search as:
"search words" site:btcointalk.org,
but they are posting a lot of crap with small sentences that is so hard to match...
Simple copy pasting can be easily checked but this text spinning needs another way to try and combat it, other than manual labor.

If somebody has an idea for some kind of tool...please share

Crypto_Sassy

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Quote from: xtraelv on July 22, 2018, 07:52:10 AM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on July 22, 2018, 07:18:47 AM

IMO (do not read this as an official forum statement), it's clearly plagiarism. Changing a few words is still stealing the idea of the original author. Try that trick at work as a journalist (or university) and see how fucking fast you're fired and shunned... Without this type of rule folks could "word fuck" anything and claim it as there own.

All of the following are considered plagiarism:

-turning in someone else's work as your own
-copying words or ideas from someone else without giving credit
-failing to put a quotation in quotation marks
-giving incorrect information about the source of a quotation
-changing words but copying the sentence structure of a source without giving credit
-copying so many words or ideas from a source that it makes up the majority of your work, whether ---you give credit or not (see our section on "fair use" rules)
Source: https://www.plagiarism.org/article/what-is-plagiarism

The problem with calling it plagiarism rather than shit posting using a random buzz word generator is that a lot of the sentences are so short that it is not really much of an original idea. Probably an idea generated by one of their many alts to farm accounts for resale.

Otherwise simply posting "good project" would be plagiarism.

Just because someone posted the same sentence before doesn't automatically make it plagiarism. It could be co-incidence or gathered their information from the same source.

http://www.robietherobot.com/buzzword.htm

Shills and bots deserve nuking or banning whatever it is called what they are doing.

Forum rules also state that do not spam. If the idea is already given by somebody then why to re post the idea again but with different words.
This is indeed plagiarism but still if they cannot be banned for it then hand the ban for spamming .
But I think this indeed plagiarism when you write 3 lines and all 3 lines have same meaning what is discussed above.

Is it possible some body is copying from other site and para phrasing at different levels to post at different alt accounts.

First spin:

Quote

Gathering decides likewise express that don't spam. On the off chance that the thought is as of now given by some person then for what reason to re post the thought again yet with various words.

This is surely literary theft yet at the same time on the off chance that they can't be prohibited for it at that point hand the boycott for spamming .

However, I think this for sure copyright infringement when you compose 3 lines and every one of the 3 lines have same importance what is talked about above.

Is it conceivable some body is replicating from other site and para stating at various levels to post at various alt accounts.

Second spin:

Quote

Get-together chooses similarly express that don't spam. In case the contemplation is starting at now given by some individual then for what motivation to re post the reconsidered yet with different words.

This is most likely artistic robbery yet in the meantime in case they can't be disallowed for it by then hand the blacklist for spamming .

Be that as it may, I think this for beyond any doubt copyright encroachment when you make 3 lines and each one of the 3 lines have same significance what is discussed previously.

Used "https://spinbot.com/" to spin my original post and I think people should be banned for plagiarism.

hilariousetc

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They do this is an attempt to hide their plagiarism and make it harder to detect. It's still plagiarism.

Signatures from lower ranks should be removed as 99% of the copy and pasting is from Junior Members. Users should only be allowed a signature once they've earned it. Either that or there needs to be some punishments for the campaigns and their managers that accept and pay for this continually. Any half decent campaign manager wouldn't even allow Junior Members in the first place, or certainly not ones that were making this kind of garbled nonsense. Users should be checked before they're accepted and denied if their posts are all one/two liners or utter lazy nonsense. If this happened then we wouldn't have this issue. The longer we sit back and do nothing the worse it's going to get and it gets worse week by week as this sort of abuse is becoming commonplace and dozens are being caught and banned for it every day. There will be many more that evade detection, especially in the recesses of the local boards etc.

Jet Cash

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Can't you just parse automatically for homographs, and just ban any users?

LoyceV

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Quote from: krishnapramod on July 22, 2018, 03:45:40 AM

Would reporting such disguised posts would also result in users getting banned?

I certainly hope so! Not only are they copying someone else's work, they also alter it because they know what they're doing isn't allowed.
The next and even more annoying step is adding a homograph attack to the text.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on July 22, 2018, 05:06:49 AM

WTF? Excavators? I get that it's sort of a synonym for "miners", but these types of posts just make me slap my head.

It's an automated system that replaces words by synonyms. It's very annoying, and a spammer's response to getting caught with plagiarism. In the bounty campaign I've managed, it started with just copy/pasting, but quickly "evolved" into synonyms and homographs when they realized they didn't get away with it. It largely increased my work load, I spent much more time finding cheaters than reading real content.
And that's the problem: it's very little effort to create, and a lot of work to catch.

xtraelv

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Quote from: Flying Hellfish on July 22, 2018, 07:18:47 AM

IMO (do not read this as an official forum statement), it's clearly plagiarism. Changing a few words is still stealing the idea of the original author. Try that trick at work as a journalist (or university) and see how fucking fast you're fired and shunned... Without this type of rule folks could "word fuck" anything and claim it as there own.

All of the following are considered plagiarism:

-turning in someone else's work as your own
-copying words or ideas from someone else without giving credit
-failing to put a quotation in quotation marks
-giving incorrect information about the source of a quotation
-changing words but copying the sentence structure of a source without giving credit
-copying so many words or ideas from a source that it makes up the majority of your work, whether ---you give credit or not (see our section on "fair use" rules)
Source: https://www.plagiarism.org/article/what-is-plagiarism

The problem with calling it plagiarism rather than shit posting using a random buzz word generator is that a lot of the sentences are so short that it is not really much of an original idea. Probably an idea generated by one of their many alts to farm accounts for resale.

Otherwise simply posting "good project" would be plagiarism.

Just because someone posted the same sentence before doesn't automatically make it plagiarism. It could be co-incidence or gathered their information from the same source.

http://www.robietherobot.com/buzzword.htm

Shills and bots deserve nuking or banning whatever it is called what they are doing.

Flying Hellfish

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IMO (do not read this as an official forum statement), it's clearly plagiarism. Changing a few words is still stealing the idea of the original author. Try that trick at work as a journalist (or university) and see how fucking fast you're fired and shunned... Without this type of rule folks could "word fuck" anything and claim it as there own.

All of the following are considered plagiarism:

-turning in someone else's work as your own
-copying words or ideas from someone else without giving credit
-failing to put a quotation in quotation marks
-giving incorrect information about the source of a quotation
-changing words but copying the sentence structure of a source without giving credit
-copying so many words or ideas from a source that it makes up the majority of your work, whether ---you give credit or not (see our section on "fair use" rules)
Source: https://www.plagiarism.org/article/what-is-plagiarism

krishnapramod

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on July 22, 2018, 05:06:49 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Vitalik will lessen the reward for excavators by 80%.

WTF? Excavators? I get that it's sort of a synonym for "miners", but these types of posts just make me slap my head. My head actually has red palm prints that I don't think are going to go away.

Good catch, OP. Did you catch these manually or are you using some sort of program? Also, did you report these thieves?

The old fashion way, manually, searching through each and every page. With the first post it was "floor" with second "80%". Although these disguised posts are difficult to spot than the exact copy/paste, still they do retain some words that stand out. I haven't reported them yet, looking for confirmation if spinned posts that retain 50% of the original should be reported/banned. If that's the case, spammers who think exact copy/paste to be the loophole could be reported.

Jet Cash

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I'm really concerned about plagiarism, and this is one of the reasons that I insist that members of Fit to Talk use their Bitcoin Talk member name to sign up. The primary function of the project is to help foreign language members to improve their English posts here. Because of this, it should be possible to make a modified post on a board here, without the risk of a plagiarism accusation. If anyone finds a post here that has not been made by the 'concept creator', then please report it to the mods. I would also be grateful if I could be notified, and I will investigate in case there is a misunderstanding.

Should the report be the result of a misunderstanding, how can I appeal on behalf of the rightful creator of the post?

actuallytwolamas

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They probably running text through some free text spinner and editing themselves a little bit more. I ran both texts through wordAI, and looks like they pretty much similar.
First:

Quote

{In my opinion|I think}, coin prices continue to fall sharply {because of|due to} interventions {from|out of} {governments|authorities}. In Korea, {authorities|police|governments} {are still|continue to be} considering {possible|potential} {closure|closed|closing} of {virtual|digital} {currency|money} trading floors. Despite the {closure|close} of {the|this} {virtual|digital} {currency|money} floor {last|this past} {year|12 months}, China still has {more|significantly more} {aggressive|competitive} measures {against|contrary to} the {virtual|digital} {currency|money|foreign exchange} {industry|market}.

Second:

Quote

{That's|That is} {what|exactly what} I thought a month {ago|past}. {But|However,} now I doubt it. ETH's {profitability|sustainability} is {declining|falling|decreasing}. Vitalik {is going to|will} {reduce|decrease} the {reward|benefit} for miners by {80%|80 percent}. This {can|will} {significantly|somewhat|considerably} {reduce|lower|decrease} the {popularity|prevalence} of {these|those|the} coins. I expect the {price|cost|purchase price} {of|tag on} Eth {against|contrary to|from} the {dollar|buck} {may|can|will|could} {increase|rise} {but |however |}in {relation to|connection with} btc I expect a further decline in the {price|purchase price}.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Vitalik will lessen the reward for excavators by 80%.

WTF? Excavators? I get that it's sort of a synonym for "miners", but these types of posts just make me slap my head. My head actually has red palm prints that I don't think are going to go away.

Good catch, OP. Did you catch these manually or are you using some sort of program? Also, did you report these thieves?

xtraelv

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Perma-ban. It is plagiarism. There is no reason for it. It has no constructive purpose in conversation. It is either shills using it to bump their scam ICO or BOTs that use a random phrase generator.

http://projects.wsj.com/buzzwords2014/#p=4%7C%7C21,23%7C%7C0%7C%7C0

It sometimes sounds funny but the Haiku buzz phrases / Dogecoin style nonsense are just bots using a buzzword generator.

https://github.com/nickmccurdy/buzzword-generator

It would good to be tougher on the ICO's that pay for those shills / bots to post that crap.

Cryptosandy1987

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they should be banned for a short duration with barning or maybe both accounts belong to the same person.

SFR10

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Quote from: krishnapramod on July 22, 2018, 03:45:40 AM

Would reporting such disguised posts would also result in users getting banned?

AFAIK, using someone else's template is equal to copying it partially so its end result, shouldn't be any different (same applies to users that tend to translate someone else's post into other languages).

krishnapramod

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Compared to users copying posts exactly as they are, a greater number of users are indulging in text spinning/disguised plagiarism and getting away with spamming. The post might match 90% with the original or even 50%, but when compared, it's quite evident that it's a disguised copy of another user's post with some words changed and whatsoever no originality. For example:

Quote from: Frob1992 on July 05, 2018, 12:01:44 AM

coin costs preserve to fall sharply due to interventions from governments. In Korea, government are nonetheless considering viable closure of virtual forex flooring. no matter the closure of the digital foreign money floor last year, China nevertheless has greater aggressive measures against the digital foreign money enterprise.

Quote from: luke liam on April 21, 2018, 01:14:20 PM

In my opinion, coin prices continue to fall sharply because of interventions from governments. In Korea, authorities are still considering possible closure of virtual currency trading floors. Despite the closure of the virtual currency floor last year, China still has more aggressive measures against the virtual currency industry.

A newbie's better attempt at disguised plagiarism.

Quote from: ?? on ??

That is the thing that I thought multi month back. Be that as it may, now I question it. ETH's benefit is declining. Vitalik will lessen the reward for excavators by 80%. This can altogether diminish the ubiquity of these coins. I expect the cost of Eth against the dollar may increment however in connection to btc I expect a further decrease in the cost.

Quote from: Coffee135 on April 04, 2018, 08:01:53 AM

That's what I thought a month ago. But now I doubt it. ETH's profitability is declining. Vitalik is going to reduce the reward for miners by 80%. This can significantly reduce the popularity of these coins. I expect the price of Eth against the dollar may increase but in relation to btc I expect a further decline in the price.

Be it copying exactly or disguising it and posting, the end result is the same, unoriginal spam post. Would reporting such disguised posts would also result in users getting banned?

Edit: I reported these posts and the newbie account got banned, the other one is unhandled, and since three of the users I had reported on LoyceV's thread using same tactics got banned, probably this user will get banned.

Topic: Text spinning/disguised plagiarism (Read 526 times)