That is why play to earn concept is a massive failure

X-ray

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Quote from: asyakashi on February 11, 2022, 08:04:59 PM

Play to Earn so far has not been perfect, because it is more burdensome to someone who has a large capital and enters early as a winner, well, I think all cryptocurrency concepts are the same,

The big player can afford to buy a lot of good NFT to play in the game. that's why they can get fast ROI. That's different with small players that are only paying with what they have. Different income, different ROI and many more. I guess how many small players that already trapped by the shitty play to earn game. The game needs to be re-structured. It's not even balance. I know that people are still looking for nice profit from investing in this play to earn game but they don't even realize if they are putting their money into the big risk that will make them all unable to get back their money caused by long ROI.

Quote from: asyakashi on February 11, 2022, 08:04:59 PM

everything will be lively at the beginning and will disappear soon as well as the play concept to earn in cryptocurrency.

As long as it can sustain and that's fine.

yazher

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

There are lots of example of these kinds of games which was shut down last where most of their developers cut down the rewards until they run out of supply to give their users. Now they are making some new concept but the same mission where they disappear again after they gathered enough money to steal from their innocent gamer investors. That's why everyone needs to take heed and lesson from last year if they don't want to waste their money thinking that it will multiply but in reality, it will forever be lost.

bluebit25

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Looking back at current P2E products, there is not much difference, there are really too many copies of the gameplay, almost nothing special. Only a few have done that and have had great success in this space, but fomo following the trend without careful preparation makes creating a coin or P2E products as a form of publicity. In order to industrialize, you just need to think of a random name and attract then pay to hire dev teams, you will have a new product right away. The loss of censorship and overflow makes many people think it is thriving, but when it comes to reality, we are still just getting started.

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Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on February 12, 2022, 12:46:49 PM

in fact at one point I was going to enter one of the best games that they had considered from the beginning, but for reasons of life I had to do a lot of corresponding errands with my 4-month-old daughter and she left a lot time on it, after I wanted to do it, something prevented me, then I saw that the price fell more than 60%, then I believed even lower, the discord and telegram of that game said that it was only a strong correction and that it was safe to enter, which was cheaper, but when these things happen, everything is already damaged, there are cracks that cannot be repaired and the price went to less than 1 USD, the number of people they lost was gigantic, from that moment I did not believe anymore in NFT games.

I would guess that the purchasing is the main problem because it has very little utility that attracts people. Lets take Axie in our hands, they charge you SLP for breeding but we will breed and breed and breed and one day there will be countless of them, so the price would have to go down significantly to cover that, you can't have the same axie prices at 100k total axie versus 1 million vs 10 million.

It means that breeding will not be profitable, which means that you can't really use SLP that way. They dropped the amount of SLP you can earn, so that the price would go up, so that you can earn less but worth more, which failed miserably since people already stashed so much. All in all, if you do not provide a good "buy this token because of this" mechanism in any play to earn game, that token will be earned but not spent like you assumed it would.

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Quote from: lvsca on February 11, 2022, 08:54:09 PM

the most advantageous are those who enter early,

The early you join the more money you get

Quote from: lvsca on February 11, 2022, 08:54:09 PM

can understand the meta quickly and get cheaper character prices, the concept of Play to earn is sometimes more like pay to win now, you have to have stronger characters to win.

I do agree with this. play to earn already evolved to be pay to win to earn. This concept is getting changed like some chara getting over buffed while remember that there was also rare and common NFT. People who owned rare NFT will have more chance to earn more from the market. Just like axie, bomb crypto and almost all of play to earn is also getting evolved into the pay to win to earn.
I hope that the dev will try to change the mechanism that already used in the play to earn. This concept is not relevant anymore and there must be a major change to this mechanism.
that's how so many play to earn project can't sustain for long term.

TastyChillySauce00

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Most of the famous game, will eventually decrease in terms of unique gamers that are gonna be registering in their game.
doesn’t necessarily the trend of blockchain gaming is fading and going down with flame, because if the active users are still quite many and most of them are still normally trying to make some money by playing the game, I think it could be said that the trend is still there.
if you seek for higher statistics of new unique users registration in game, then try seeking these new games that just opens up their games recently, that’s exactly the place that you’re truly looking for if you wanna see if the trend is still going or the opposite is happening.
even if the existing famous game platform that revolves around blockchain eventually fades, there’s always new blockchain game that gonna be taking over.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

Just to say that once there is new, it easily gets in the hype and people will choose that while leaving the old one. At this time where major gaming companies are offering that Play-to earn platform, this serves a market competition as well. Like mentioning Axie Infinity, looking at their performance now, they are absolutely in decline after another project comes doing the same.
So, if you are early adopters and can ride the hypes, you'll exactly in huge profit but if not, well, you can still earn some but not compared to them.

7788bitcoin

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The hype is really great and there are many projects claiming to come up with P2E games but you cannot expect them to release the best version from the start. Right now the fees are really high and there is not much great games either but in the future we can expect interesting games coming up when big game development companies start producing P2E games and then the entire landscape will change.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 11, 2022, 06:19:00 PM

...

If you have any data that shows the number of users increasing then please provide the link here. Axis infinity is a very popular P2E model and they have huge active users. It's wise to check bigger user base games because that's where most of the money flows and gamers are more focused on.

I don't have those numbers yet but it remains true that Axie players or investors are moving their money around but still within the P2E ecosystem. Some people I've talked to moved to games like Bombcrypto and they are also on the lookout of newer games about to be launched. Axie is a good reference but I insist that it's not enough to conclude or assume the hype is fading and players are decreasing.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

I have never had interest in all these games, because I don’t really see the need for me to be doing such, investing my money and also having to stress myself physically and mentally trying to earn after I have invested. I would rather look for good assets and invest in them knowing that as time goes on they will generate value for me, and then I will also look for other things that I can do to keep myself busy.

If I felt like I want to play games, then I have some high end games that I’m interested in playing and not all those little games that they would usually set up as play to earn. They don’t interest me at all.

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Quote from: virasog on February 12, 2022, 09:38:31 AM

Quote from: lvsca on February 11, 2022, 08:54:09 PM

the most advantageous are those who enter early, can understand the meta quickly and get cheaper character prices, the concept of Play to earn is sometimes more like pay to win now, you have to have stronger characters to win.

Almost all the play to earn games loses value over time. This means if you have invested in play to earn games, a few month ago, you would be in a big loss. Axie Infinity is a perfect example for this where a team of three axie cost you around 1200-1500$ two month before. Now the same team can be formed in around 150-300$. Think about those early investors, who must be in a big big loss. The reason for this is poor planning from the game developers who do not think if the game is sustainable over time.

The cost of team before are quite expensive but the price of slp and axs is not heavily dump as today and investors can recover what they invested in a short duration of time. Now the teams cost are quite cheaper that is because the value of the slp or the axs have also decline and it will now be harder for them to gain their investments.

Axie have a roadmap just like a typical crypto project therefore you cant say that the game is poorly planned but can we just assume that there are competitors and people have jumping to other games when they think the other game is more fun and more profitable? I think every crypto project have foreseen that possibility. It is unavoidable.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

... Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

If you are among the early users when even the game coin is not traded anywhere, you have a great chance to earn these coins for the purpose of subsequent sale to the listing. But the problem is that no one knows how much this coin will cost and whether it will be traded at all. In this case, you can just lose your time, or if the game is interesting, enjoy the game.

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Quote from: virasog on February 12, 2022, 09:38:31 AM

Almost all the play to earn games loses value over time. This means if you have invested in play to earn games, a few month ago, you would be in a big loss. Axie Infinity is a perfect example for this where a team of three axie cost you around 1200-1500$ two month before. Now the same team can be formed in around 150-300$. Think about those early investors, who must be in a big big loss. The reason for this is poor planning from the game developers who do not think if the game is sustainable over time.

It would be difficult to find a better example of a Ponzi scheme.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I have quit with play to earn concept game and coin because not have potential as long term keep profitable, last time I try play to earn coin first time price up and few days only trough active playing price dump almost 80%. I think never try with play to earn coin for investing or buying character NFTs because not keep consistent for long term profit, coin can suddenly dump extremely and loss much money if you keep make play to earn coin as investment.

You are right, in fact at one point I was going to enter one of the best games that they had considered from the beginning, but for reasons of life I had to do a lot of corresponding errands with my 4-month-old daughter and she left a lot time on it, after I wanted to do it, something prevented me, then I saw that the price fell more than 60%, then I believed even lower, the discord and telegram of that game said that it was only a strong correction and that it was safe to enter, which was cheaper, but when these things happen, everything is already damaged, there are cracks that cannot be repaired and the price went to less than 1 USD, the number of people they lost was gigantic, from that moment I did not believe anymore in NFT games.

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Quote from: lvsca on February 11, 2022, 08:54:09 PM

the most advantageous are those who enter early, can understand the meta quickly and get cheaper character prices, the concept of Play to earn is sometimes more like pay to win now, you have to have stronger characters to win.

Almost all the play to earn games loses value over time. This means if you have invested in play to earn games, a few month ago, you would be in a big loss. Axie Infinity is a perfect example for this where a team of three axie cost you around 1200-1500$ two month before. Now the same team can be formed in around 150-300$. Think about those early investors, who must be in a big big loss. The reason for this is poor planning from the game developers who do not think if the game is sustainable over time.

JeffBrad12

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I see that. My friends are losing a lot of money caused by they have joined in this play to earn a game at the late game. So many early adopters have been leaving the game and this is also putting the game with no demand. That means the tokens have no value. This concept needs a lot of solutions. People are still looking for more play to earn as they can make a lot of money once they will able to buy in early. So many holes in this mechanism and this makes the dev has so much homework to solve this problem. It's too early for the play to earn to be big project with two digits billions marketcap. I think that so many things need to be solved as soon as possible started from the economic, inflation and many more.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

Actually, this kind of thing isn't only applied to play to earn model games but all of the games with different genre.
See other MMORPG games for example (not NFT). User registration is only high at its releasing date and its succeeding weeks but after that if the users see the game as hard and repetitive then the number of users registering the game and play will decrease daily.

In terms of the play to earn model particularly the NFT games, I'm playing NFT games and I can say that its kinda like a pyramid scheme like system where early adopters of the game will be the ones who will earn the most. Well, the good thing though in these NFT games is that you have an opportunity to earn while playing unlike playing other games where you are spending money to buy skins or anything related to the game but no return of the user or maybe fun but you can enjoy while earning in these P2E games right?

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Quote from: asyakashi on February 11, 2022, 08:04:59 PM

Play to Earn so far has not been perfect, because it is more burdensome to someone who has a large capital and enters early as a winner, well, I think all cryptocurrency concepts are the same, everything will be lively at the beginning and will disappear soon as well as the play concept to earn in cryptocurrency.

It's almost the same if we study it conceptually initially, although there are also differences, but only slightly because whatever the trend is always better in the beginning and will be very bad in the end like what happened with the coin meme last year.

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Quote from: kojektea on February 11, 2022, 07:48:17 PM

Looks like a Pay To Win concept rather than Play To Earn, but as far as I see it is like that, new players will only be used as virtual slaves, those who have little capital or don't understand the meta game will lose capital here, even in my opinion every few seasons meta games are always changing, that means we have to buy meta characters to win the game.

Yappp, it will be there because people who have money and want to spend it are what make the project work and will attract a lot of players because of the money coming in.
In the long run it's up to developers who want invest their time and their mind in order to survive, if the project only want to follow the trend then this is only short term trend and will die.
There are many example in this new type of blockchain game and now many people think axie infinity game are going to die.
Actually it's only up to developers&CEO who decide This is The End

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Quote from: lvsca on February 11, 2022, 08:54:09 PM

the most advantageous are those who enter early, can understand the meta quickly and get cheaper character prices, the concept of Play to earn is sometimes more like pay to win now, you have to have stronger characters to win.

That is clear and almost similar to other things too, for example like the people on this forum, when you are at a very high rank, then you will get paid very much and that is clearly profitable because not everyone have the same rank now.

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well, I also think that there are systems to watch out for in the P2E world. Just like Axie, every day there will be more and more people playing it, and people are making Axie more and more. every day people make millions of SLP. however, sooner or later, SLP will have a low price as the players of this game get bigger. well, maybe I don't understand something. however, I think that there will come a time when there will be more Axie users, and the level of SLP sales in each tier will make the price even lower. well, this may apply to other P2E. I took axie as an example because I feel that it is the best P2E game to date.

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So many existing p2e game is only getting the new users that created by the existing users. I meant there are so many farmers in this kind of game. This is making the game become unsustain caused by farmers are having intention only to dump tokens earned from the game. We have so many games that already dead and this proven that this ecosystem was only for short term.
I do agree with your statement about this ecosystem. The new user didn't wanna join caused by too much farmers. When there will be a limitation for the account that can be created to keep the ecosystem will sustain and this is good. I avoid to invest in the NFT that related with play to earn. Axie has proven if it's not worth and only full with hype

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I feel that the Play To Earn concept can lose its popularity sooner or later because I do not see that players can earn much before competing with the others. The other people will earn more, especially if they can deposit some money and buy stuff from the games to increase their power to defeat the other player. I think the dev needs to work more to invite more players and give them the other things to be excited to play the games.

But maybe I am wrong on this since I do not play to earn like other people.

timerland

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I completely agree with this.

P2E is another buzzword that is used by marketers to push their own agendas. In reality, there is very little utility for the games that they launch, and the fact that they are so hierarchically skewed towards capital holders and early adopters.

Pyramid scheme would do the P2E genre justice. The people who come late get pennies.

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Quote from: topbitcoin on February 11, 2022, 08:22:05 AM

At first we should know probably what their aim is not user's experience but profit. We can see on some play to earn games, who doing it with free account wouldn't survived that easily and even who pay it must pay more and compete in how high we can pay the character or anything else or maybe stuck with gacha which sometimes give us bad thing too.

It’s always the same thing with all of them, there wouldn’t be a game that you would play with a free account and be able to win and earn something reasonable. It’s not really a game that is fair to play and relies on your skills. it has nothing at all to do with your skills, it only has to do with your money and how much you are able to invest in these games.

I do understand that the reason why the developers are doing this is because they also need to make their own money, because if it was a fair to play game that has to rely on skills, then people would rather rely on their skills than having to spend money for them to be able to earn from the game.

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So far, only the axie infinify game Play to Earn has lasted for quite a long time, although some time ago it experienced a drastic decline, even changing the income system to be very small, but they said it was only temporary, because currently there is no income that is not in accordance with the capital obtained. Besides, axie infinity many Play to Earn games were discontinued because they failed.

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the most advantageous are those who enter early, can understand the meta quickly and get cheaper character prices, the concept of Play to earn is sometimes more like pay to win now, you have to have stronger characters to win.

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Play to Earn so far has not been perfect, because it is more burdensome to someone who has a large capital and enters early as a winner, well, I think all cryptocurrency concepts are the same, everything will be lively at the beginning and will disappear soon as well as the play concept to earn in cryptocurrency.

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Looks like a Pay To Win concept rather than Play To Earn, but as far as I see it is like that, new players will only be used as virtual slaves, those who have little capital or don't understand the meta game will lose capital here, even in my opinion every few seasons meta games are always changing, that means we have to buy meta characters to win the game.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

Regardless of what the game feature is, the main reason for play-to-earn games to be successful is only because of HYPE. There are lots of games already that we can fairly say have a good build and features but without hype, those games won't attract the players.

I have seen lots of good graphics play-to-earn games that didn't get the attention of the masses.

We just have to hunt that best game and hope for the best result if we risk money on those.

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Play-to-earn is good enough if the game itself is nice and interesting to play. All the worst play-to-earn projects look so bad just because of this reason - their gameplay suxx...

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Quote from: Yogee on February 11, 2022, 04:20:52 PM

Quote from: laredo7mm on February 11, 2022, 04:02:27 AM

Quote from: Yogee on February 10, 2022, 05:28:16 PM

...
Can you provide data or statistics about the "decreasing day by day"?

Look at this chart of one of the popular P2E game axis infinity. Data shows the number of active users is in decline but the fact is the number is much higher. Because many of these active users are not unique and already existing users who play from other user accounts and share the profit 50-50 between them. This system become very popular in the Philippines and 40% of total users are from that particular country.

Have you checked other P2E games if the number of new users are also decreasing? Why limit it to one game when your post talks about the totality of P2E model. Many old time players have left and sold their Axie but they didn't leave the space entirely. They just moved on to other games. You may argue that they aren't considered as unique users but you cannot also say people in P2E are decreasing everyday.

If you have any data that shows the number of users increasing then please provide the link here. Axis infinity is a very popular P2E model and they have huge active users. It's wise to check bigger user base games because that's where most of the money flows and gamers are more focused on.

Quote from: Oilacris on February 11, 2022, 04:55:26 PM

Its expected on a certain trend on which if the hype goes down then expect that people would be flocking out into something new.People would really tend to get in as early as they can thats why you

could really see rushing up on making investment on something new on which it do really leads on losing money considering that there were lots of rug pulls that do happen in the market.

This is why there's no other way but to make yourself that aware of the risks and only invest on the amount which you could afford to lose.

In the P2E model game users only care about where they will have the biggest chance to earn profits. Also, those game and their developers are bringing new upgrade everyday to keep users into their platform.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

Its expected on a certain trend on which if the hype goes down then expect that people would be flocking out into something new.People would really tend to get in as early as they can thats why you

could really see rushing up on making investment on something new on which it do really leads on losing money considering that there were lots of rug pulls that do happen in the market.

This is why there's no other way but to make yourself that aware of the risks and only invest on the amount which you could afford to lose.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 11, 2022, 04:02:27 AM

Quote from: Yogee on February 10, 2022, 05:28:16 PM

...
Can you provide data or statistics about the "decreasing day by day"?

Look at this chart of one of the popular P2E game axis infinity. Data shows the number of active users is in decline but the fact is the number is much higher. Because many of these active users are not unique and already existing users who play from other user accounts and share the profit 50-50 between them. This system become very popular in the Philippines and 40% of total users are from that particular country.

Have you checked other P2E games if the number of new users are also decreasing? Why limit it to one game when your post talks about the totality of P2E model. Many old time players have left and sold their Axie but they didn't leave the space entirely. They just moved on to other games. You may argue that they aren't considered as unique users but you cannot also say people in P2E are decreasing everyday.

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Quote from: Psynthax on February 11, 2022, 11:31:09 AM

Early joiners = winners. This is how ponzi scheme work as well.

Early joiners in most defi projects last year were basically doing exactly that. They knew that there would be a big big chance that it turns out a scam, but they still risked a lot of money (combined, maybe little individually) just so they could get in at the first day, see the super increase on release, sell there, and get out.

Price could be near zero by day 10, but they didn't care about that at all. This is what we are facing right now with most stuff, nft, metaverse, all these new things are doing the same thing. People do not care what it will worth in 10 years, they care about what they can make on the release date and that is it.

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its true that these kind of model is unsustaining, the game developers behind the project instead of creating more and more products with the growing of the users instead they just staying with the existing games.
as a result, they get less and less new gamers because as you said the early birds are getting the most of the revenues generated.
just like axie, you can see so many NFTs generated out of the game and that created a great effect of making the price of that NFTs going down for the simple fact that its kinda easy for big guilds that have many scholarships in earning so many of these NFTs all at once and they usually have target for earnings.

Psynthax

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game

It's hard to say but this makes it looks like a ponzi scheme. People need to pay to buy the item from the early adopters to be able to play the game and what's the different with ponzi that force you to get into the early game to get a huge money from this scheme? So many holes in the play to earn schemes and this needs more research. The game developers forced people to pay before we can try to get experience with the game.

Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got.

Early joiners = winners. This is how ponzi scheme work as well.

Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

The new registrations are coming from the grinders and it's not from the native users or new players.

michellee

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Related to the play-to-earn concept, I think it is still the same before integrating it with the blockchain. But with blockchain, the player can earn something that they can sell at the market to make money. The real concept is all about money but with a different face to attract those unfamiliar with the games and make them curious about how to play while earning money.

I am not too understanding about play to earn but I think that is what I can get after playing games such as league of kingdoms. I do not know if that play to earn can grow more than now since it needs to work there and here, making the developer more creative or doing something that can help the games survive.

topbitcoin

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At first we should know probably what their aim is not user's experience but profit. We can see on some play to earn games, who doing it with free account wouldn't survived that easily and even who pay it must pay more and compete in how high we can pay the character or anything else or maybe stuck with gacha which sometimes give us bad thing too.

Mauser

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I am also struggling to understand the value and lifetime of such play to earn schemes. As soon as the inflow of new players stops and no new money is being added to the system the values drop sharply. I understand that advertising and promotions are one form to create value for the goods, but these are usually not permanent contracts and will eventually. I noticed that for certain games artificial items that offer bonuses or cosmetic changes are the best way to retain value within the game. These goods usually involve rarity and are hard to obtain to be valuable. In the end it seems that only the most popular games manage to stay profitable, most schemes eventually drop to 0.

laredo7mm

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Quote from: danherbias07 on February 11, 2022, 07:47:15 AM

It is a pyramid scheme. I believe that. There must be money that comes first for them to give back.
But, why not try to compare it with just normal online games. You pay for skins for the pleasure of your eyes and play the game spending a lot of time and money. What did you get at the end of the day or when the developer decides they cannot continue anymore? Nothing.

If somehow, at this pyramid scheme I can get my ROI and some small profit then it's worth it than nothing at all. I enjoyed the game and at the same time a chance to earn some even at small amounts.

Yes as long as you are enjoying the game. Most of these games are no fun because there is a total imbalance of power between new users and experienced ones. There is no chance for new users to level up or win against those users that have powerful weapons which can only be found on the super expensive box. As soon as users understand that it's not possible to level up without investing money they gave up and those who invest money are stuck there because he needs to inject more money to further level up. You need to invest money, sleep, and time to earn some profits. Is that really worth it! I don't think so. I agree with you its a pyramid scheme.

danherbias07

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It is a pyramid scheme. I believe that. There must be money that comes first for them to give back.
But, why not try to compare it with just normal online games. You pay for skins for the pleasure of your eyes and play the game spending a lot of time and money. What did you get at the end of the day or when the developer decides they cannot continue anymore? Nothing.
If somehow, at this pyramid scheme I can get my ROI and some small profit then it's worth it than nothing at all. I enjoyed the game and at the same time a chance to earn some even at small amounts.

ultrloa

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Quote from: kaya11 on February 11, 2022, 07:05:06 AM

Quote from: Synerggy on February 10, 2022, 12:19:43 PM

Still it depends on how fun the game is, skin colour means a lot for we hardcore gamers, I'd want to wear Arnold Schwarzenegger skin in call of duty multiplayer or use some custom skin in ninja like format, people spend money on skins mate but it depends on how fun the game is anyways.

I agree, good example is Dota Franchise. Look how old it is, the players are increasing and the game keeps on updating. If ever there would be play to earn games that would stand a chance, maybe another moba game with good quality characters that can compete with Dota2. It is massive and yearly it has and International Championship with millions of dollars at stake. Look at Axie now, slp fells and new player are dismayed and frustrated because they've bought their teams at high prices and the revenue is far from expectation.

Well its undeniable that the value of slp drop down badly but we also need to consider the number of players minting their tokens everyday and minus the burning rate of the tokens so expect the value will dump since the burning rate is so low these days that's why the dev are working now to balance their economy that's why they take out the daily rewards from adventure and daily quest. And for this action it can help the economy to recover since it will eliminate the over minting also the bots farming it.

Also their V3(Origin) is bound to launch so for sure it can help their token to reach its another peak once that update release.

Note: I don't recommend anyone to invest and DYOR.

redwine49

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Quote from: marcous on February 11, 2022, 06:43:40 AM

Quote from: redwine49 on February 11, 2022, 06:25:28 AM

Backthen i know about PYR. It's a really good game ecosystem. the dev can be trusted to provide many quality games to play. there are many promotions which you can get income & free NFT, but now there are not many promotions since they entered the binance exchange. i don't know which game you play there. but now i don't follow much because i don't have much time

The main capital in playing any game is time, and when you don't have much time, then obviously there is nothing new that you can explore for now because every day there is always something new that may also be very important for those who can use it to know at a certain place.

Yeppp, we all know everything need time even just playing a game to earn money or replying your post

Quote from: masterrex on February 11, 2022, 07:04:09 AM

IMO, I believe that blockchain base P2E games are no different from any other crypto-based platform in the industry and it was bound to fade or even failed later, maybe they were just created for that purpose. But anyway, we should learn how the crypto industry works because all of these crypto-related things are working similarly, just like the other existing platforms, that's why most of the crypto projects are failing sooner or later and P2E games are not exempted from this reality.

I still believe that some P2E games will survive, not many because these are all competing against each other over who will be the champion.
In the last 1 decade the world of cryptocurrency has evolved and changed a lot, we've seen what used to seem impossible to achieve.
Even though many people have lost a lot of money, cryptocurrencies still exist despite their own opinion.

kaya11

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Quote from: Synerggy on February 10, 2022, 12:19:43 PM

Still it depends on how fun the game is, skin colour means a lot for we hardcore gamers, I'd want to wear Arnold Schwarzenegger skin in call of duty multiplayer or use some custom skin in ninja like format, people spend money on skins mate but it depends on how fun the game is anyways.

I agree, good example is Dota Franchise. Look how old it is, the players are increasing and the game keeps on updating. If ever there would be play to earn games that would stand a chance, maybe another moba game with good quality characters that can compete with Dota2. It is massive and yearly it has and International Championship with millions of dollars at stake. Look at Axie now, slp fells and new player are dismayed and frustrated because they've bought their teams at high prices and the revenue is far from expectation.

masterrex

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IMO, I believe that blockchain base P2E games are no different from any other crypto-based platform in the industry and it was bound to fade or even failed later, maybe they were just created for that purpose. But anyway, we should learn how the crypto industry works because all of these crypto-related things are working similarly, just like the other existing platforms, that's why most of the crypto projects are failing sooner or later and P2E games are not exempted from this reality.

marcous

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Quote from: redwine49 on February 11, 2022, 06:25:28 AM

Backthen i know about PYR. It's a really good game ecosystem. the dev can be trusted to provide many quality games to play. there are many promotions which you can get income & free NFT, but now there are not many promotions since they entered the binance exchange. i don't know which game you play there. but now i don't follow much because i don't have much time

The main capital in playing any game is time, and when you don't have much time, then obviously there is nothing new that you can explore for now because every day there is always something new that may also be very important for those who can use it to know at a certain place.

redwine49

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Yes, you are right, but what's gonna happen when AAA games come into contact with crypto world?
Sure, these browser games do what you said, but check out some more serious games where crypto is just a bonus. Like Dustlands or Gold Fever

what do you know about those game? will it take a lot of time to play?

Quote from: lobo13hf on February 10, 2022, 06:15:09 PM

That's a bit different with what already implemented by PYR. You can play to earn for free without needed tp buy NFT like another shit scam pyramid platform such as axie infinity, bombcrypto and many more. Remember that so many dead projects have been using this scheme like PVU, SKILL and these tokens are dead. Recently a gaming token called bombcrypto is almost dead as well. I rarely seen gaming crypto that didn't force its users to pay some money on the early game to be able to participated in the play to earn game. Only 1 or two gamest that let the new gamers to participate in the play to earn for free such as PYR.
I can't deny the fact that i can earn abouit $10 - $20 everyday from there. I know that's quite small but it's free.

Backthen i know about PYR. It's a really good game ecosystem. the dev can be trusted to provide many quality games to play. there are many promotions which you can get income & free NFT, but now there are not many promotions since they entered the binance exchange. i don't know which game you play there. but now i don't follow much because i don't have much time

bakasabo

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The whole idea of using blockchain in games looks strange to me. Every game has its limits of interest and things to do. To make people stay, developers must release DLC, updates and etc. All the new stuff and mechanics makes the impact on old stuff and mecanics. That forces developers to make changes in old part of the game - to balance things in game. If the idea of blockchain is "what is in there, it can not be changed or deleted", that it does not come together with balancing. Imagine what would be, if you can edit your confirmed transaction.

laredo7mm

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Quote from: Yogee on February 10, 2022, 05:28:16 PM

Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

That is like blaming BTC for crimes like money laundering which is happening before crypto became popular. People have been investing in a lot of games by buying items for their favorite characters prior to the introduction of P2E NFT games.

Quote

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

Can you provide data or statistics about the "decreasing day by day"?

P2E concept isn't a massive failure but it's a fact that some existing legitimate projects are failing due to their flawed reward system.

Look at this chart of one of the popular P2E game axis infinity. Data shows the number of active users is in decline but the fact is the number is much higher. Because many of these active users are not unique and already existing users who play from other user accounts and share the profit 50-50 between them. This system become very popular in the Philippines and 40% of total users are from that particular country.

lobo13hf

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That's a bit different with what already implemented by PYR. You can play to earn for free without needed tp buy NFT like another shit scam pyramid platform such as axie infinity, bombcrypto and many more. Remember that so many dead projects have been using this scheme like PVU, SKILL and these tokens are dead. Recently a gaming token called bombcrypto is almost dead as well. I rarely seen gaming crypto that didn't force its users to pay some money on the early game to be able to participated in the play to earn game. Only 1 or two gamest that let the new gamers to participate in the play to earn for free such as PYR.
I can't deny the fact that i can earn abouit $10 - $20 everyday from there. I know that's quite small but it's free.

redwine49

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

NFT games are new compared to cryptocurrencies that have been around for more than a decade.
In my opinion play to earn model is almost like staking cryptocurrency, it's basically staking NFTs vs staking Coin
But play-to-earn model is still untested even now people are talking about the future of the metaverse.
The big question is....

will it work or not?

ultrloa

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

Maybe for other things its completely failure especially on the copy ones but not all of them is completely failure since there are play to earn games which is totally good to play at. And don't be surprise for having an advantage if you are early adopters since that's your reward for believing their project. Also to make sure that you are in play 2 earn games then better avoid who use BSC tokens and project owner which copy certain successful p2e project since most of them are there to scam.

Yogee

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

That is like blaming BTC for crimes like money laundering which is happening before crypto became popular. People have been investing in a lot of games by buying items for their favorite characters prior to the introduction of P2E NFT games.

Quote

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

Can you provide data or statistics about the "decreasing day by day"?

P2E concept isn't a massive failure but it's a fact that some existing legitimate projects are failing due to their flawed reward system.

QueenVera

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

Concentration are more on price of the tokens of project and how popular the games are getting instead of how the games graphic are developing and encouraging new years to join. Most of the games are not interesting and yes the concept are always alike.

When it comes to gaming with the blockchain, We are still early though and I believe things will improve as the industry grows. Immediately more partnership takes coming in and develop are made on the graphic if the games and concept, new members will begin to join the games.

passwordnow

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Failure of a P2E project is going to be related on how the developers are coping with the need to continue developing what they've started. It's always the balance that everyone is looking for not just with the game but as well as the token economy of that project.
There's a hard truth with this topic but not all of them are the same scheme.

Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system.

About this, if the project is fresh and it's on the hype. It's really discouraging to buy them because they're too expensive but wait until the hype neutralizes and the price for sure of that any character or requirement to play that P2E will become cheaper.

vv181

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Aside from an economic perspective, the P2E game whose concepts are built without a proper game design in mind will deem to fail in the long run. Their economical parts may help the longevity of the game but if the only that part is missing, which is to make their users earn money, it will come to an end.

If we are talking about a game, there is a lot of factors that make a user will keep loyal to playing the game. That is the part where the concept as a whole and the game design play their part to make the interaction between the user and the game are entertaining. If only all of those P2E game makers are whole fully considering it, I believe there will be a game that much fun to play.

CaVO32

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Quote from: adzino on February 10, 2022, 03:32:11 PM

Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

Never tried any of those play to earn games, but all I know is that this is something new and still on their early stage. Right now only small independent developers are making the games. They may all be similar, but eventually some better and good games might be developed in the future by some AAA industries.
And the play to earn mechanism will never work. As more people starts to play, the less people will be earning. Only early birds that are lucky will be able to make some good fortune. Rest will have to spend money and try their luck.

These P2E gaming platforms are banking on the players that will buy their access to get in their site as well as buy the items (character, skin, power, etc.) needed to play the game. That alone, they can already generate good amount of money. But this is still up to the player if he will join the game or not. In the end, it is the choice of the user if he will play or not. Now, some are offering free P2E games, so if a user doesn't want to spend money, look for this kind of platform. No one is obliging to buy and join in this kind of gaming model. And right now, it is not yet considered failure as more projects are introducing this kind of gaming concept.

adzino

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

Never tried any of those play to earn games, but all I know is that this is something new and still on their early stage. Right now only small independent developers are making the games. They may all be similar, but eventually some better and good games might be developed in the future by some AAA industries.
And the play to earn mechanism will never work. As more people starts to play, the less people will be earning. Only early birds that are lucky will be able to make some good fortune. Rest will have to spend money and try their luck.

teosanru

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

I agree with your second point that individuals obviously are dragged forward by the lure of playing a game at cost of their health but don't all the avenues of earning have the same problem? You just have to somehow sacrifice your mental and physical health to earn money. Talking about the first problem, I don't agree with it, as games become more like ecosystems, we might get more intuitive games where the cost doesn't only comes from the early adoption of the player but also from the skill set of the player in that particular game. Comparing it with a pyramid scheme is like comparing the whole real estate industry with a pyramid scheme or complete bullion industry as pyramid scheme.

Fesatmas

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First. I am not really interested and not good at playing games, and secondly that the first person to enter early is the one who will loot the profits. Because after the hype, it fell apart and people flocked to take advantage, not to enjoy the game. So the hype play to earn is only used as a source of income. However, as the P2E hype grows, it is now difficult to be the first to enter other than those who have booked seats in advance. Plus the gamers clearly master the game.

tyz

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 11:35:56 AM

Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

Well, it's no secret that the play-to-earn business model only works because money is constantly being put into the tokens, and the tokens gain value as a result. That's way, it is still possible to hide the fact that the business model is failed and that it will have to collapse sooner or later.

tsaroz

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For most of the games, approach is wrong from the start. Not only the game looks and mechanism are similar, they are more interested in making the people buy the tokens than actually making a playable game and a working earn and pay mechanism.
And with so much of new games everyday, people keep switching and the older ones keeps dying as the same people travels from one to another.

Synerggy

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Still it depends on how fun the game is, skin colour means a lot for we hardcore gamers, I'd want to wear Arnold Schwarzenegger skin in call of duty multiplayer or use some custom skin in ninja like format, people spend money on skins mate but it depends on how fun the game is anyways.

laredo7mm

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Quote

The play-to-earn model on its own is unsustainable. By its very nature, it creates an unsustainable pyramid scheme-like system where new players buy in only to create and sell digital goods to those who buy in after them. Above and beyond that, it creates a culture of virtual indentured servitude where individuals are dragged forward by the threat of a lost investment to play a video game at the cost of their own mental and physical health.

All the games build upon this same structure and there is nothing new other than skin color and weapon design. High entry fees in the game and high challenge for new users is demotivating new users to join the system. Only early adopters are earning massively because of those unique teams they got. Unique users registration is decreasing day by day which shows the hype is going down with flame.

Topic: That is why play to earn concept is a massive failure (Read 417 times)