The ballast | Bitcointalksearch.org

HarmonyA

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Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 08:38:28 AM

the ballast of a currency is given by the social cohesion of a society.
Bitcoin has no such characteristics, so it has no future.
You can bet against it, you just can't assess the time horizon of your downfall.

Your assertion is not correct. Bitcoin has increased some apparent worth (or balance) in the realm of as new businesses are subsidizing the structure of virtual underground vaults in mountain areas.
The ballast is the perceived value or balance.

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Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 08:52:04 AM

the strength of a common ideal that unites them.

And Bitcoin is quite possibly the purest expression of that in human history, far more so than any conventional society. No one is here because they were born into it or forced into it. They sought it out. It's entirely 100% voluntary. To have a community built totally on that basis makes it an order of magnitude more powerful and cohesive than where they came from.

If you're incapable of comprehending that then may the lord help you.

Do I feel any cohesion with the society I grew up in? Nope. They're mainly fuckwits.

LucioLemgruber

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will fail for the same reason, which failed Esperanto, had no culture behind, ie was not a reflection of a society, has no social ballast.
Bet as you wish.

NathanJB

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Quote from: cengat on December 25, 2019, 03:26:42 AM

Quote from: NathanJB on December 25, 2019, 12:13:29 AM

Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 08:38:28 AM

the ballast of a currency is given by the social cohesion of a society.
Bitcoin has no such characteristics, so it has no future.
You can bet against it, you just can't assess the time horizon of your downfall.

The social cohesion of a society does not start well. No society is born with everyone agreeing on something immediately. That is not how a society develops. Everything starts with disagreement. Everything has a different opinion or an idea.

The same with Bitcoin. People started to frown on it, did not believe in it, did not even think that it will grow big and succeed. But time goes by and they started to appreciate Bitcoin for what it is. And that is how the love of the world for Bitcoin started. The cohesion has grown intense from then on.

I believe anything that can stand there and live through people's opinion - will gain its value over time.
I mean literally anything can be part of our value system only if it is around long enough.

Probably. Because in the first place it could not have existed long enough if it is losing value or if it has no value at all. Sooner or later, it would wither away. But if it lasts long then it sure has value. The same with Bitcoin. Bitcoin is considered an illegal transaction's money in the past and was called with different labels but it remains strong 10 years later. Probably the critics need to revisit their arguments against it.

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Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 08:38:28 AM

the ballast of a currency is given by the social cohesion of a society.
Bitcoin has no such characteristics, so it has no future.
You can bet against it, you just can't assess the time horizon of your downfall.

The ballast is a currency of the coin is not given by the social cohesion of society because everyone has different views and views on living in society. The notion that Bitcoin has no future is wrong because the price of bitcoin has fallen much earlier than everything else But in the future the price will rise.

hahay

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Ballast and social cohesion of a society in a currency have indeed become something of harmony in its use, so it is not surprising when fiat is very close to the community because it has a value set by banks and the government, while bitcoin does not, isn't that what you mean about ballast? About this, of course bitcoin is still not strong enough so you doubt bitcoin in the future, but whatever will happen with future developments you will not be able to predict it for sure because a major change requires a long time.

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Quote from: wheelz1200 on December 24, 2019, 09:56:54 AM

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on December 22, 2019, 10:18:23 AM

Ballast? I don't think I've ever heard that term used about a currency before, and I've been reading financial news for at least twenty years now. I'm not sure if OP is applying it where it's not quite appropriate or if I've missed out on some new jargon lately.

Quote from: Dart18 on December 22, 2019, 08:56:29 AM

Why go far into talking about ballast.
Why not just say stability?

Beats me. It might be easier (and clearer) to say that bitcoin is extremely volatile, and the reason it's not stable is because 1) it's relatively new, and 2) it floats on the open market much like a share of a stock and gets traded quite a bit. Maybe if it had a higher market cap it might be a little less volatile, which tends to be the case with large cap stocks. Don't know where the ballast part comes in.

You hit the nail on the head. The stability is not there because its traded not only in the open market but over the course of many unregulated markets. As volume increases and regulations take a foothold the volatility will decrease more and more. Can anyone remember how stable usd was in the first 10 years of its infancy Cheesy

That's why there's a market manipulation happening in the market and it is unfair for those people who has a lot of patience in trading. Their strategies aren't that working because of the changes in the exchanges and volume. It also depends in a country's economy.

For example, here in our country, exchanging USD to our currency is higher compared to the past few years because of the downward movement of the economy. So the market is being affected and the cryptocurrencies is also affected.

cengat

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Quote from: NathanJB on December 25, 2019, 12:13:29 AM

Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 08:38:28 AM

the ballast of a currency is given by the social cohesion of a society.
Bitcoin has no such characteristics, so it has no future.
You can bet against it, you just can't assess the time horizon of your downfall.

The social cohesion of a society does not start well. No society is born with everyone agreeing on something immediately. That is not how a society develops. Everything starts with disagreement. Everything has a different opinion or an idea.

The same with Bitcoin. People started to frown on it, did not believe in it, did not even think that it will grow big and succeed. But time goes by and they started to appreciate Bitcoin for what it is. And that is how the love of the world for Bitcoin started. The cohesion has grown intense from then on.

I believe anything that can stand there and live through people's opinion - will gain its value over time.
I mean literally anything can be part of our value system only if it is around long enough.

NathanJB

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Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 08:38:28 AM

the ballast of a currency is given by the social cohesion of a society.
Bitcoin has no such characteristics, so it has no future.
You can bet against it, you just can't assess the time horizon of your downfall.

The social cohesion of a society does not start well. No society is born with everyone agreeing on something immediately. That is not how a society develops. Everything starts with disagreement. Everything has a different opinion or an idea.

The same with Bitcoin. People started to frown on it, did not believe in it, did not even think that it will grow big and succeed. But time goes by and they started to appreciate Bitcoin for what it is. And that is how the love of the world for Bitcoin started. The cohesion has grown intense from then on.

barbara44

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Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 08:38:28 AM

the ballast of a currency is given by the social cohesion of a society.
Bitcoin has no such characteristics, so it has no future.
You can bet against it, you just can't assess the time horizon of your downfall.

This is first time I hear the currency ballast. I don’t travel through times and I can’t tell what the future holds for cryptocurrency, but I do know that as long as the crypto community keeps growing strong Bitcoin will not die, we can definitely say they serve that purpose. The only time Bitcoin will end for good is when the community ends, because when there is nobody making use of it, it will become useless and stop functioning. Cryptocurrency is quite different from every other type of money there is.

And if it happens to end like you have said (which I know is not going to happen) there’s still nothing we can do about it than for everyone to just give up. We all understand that Bitcoin is a risky investment, so everyone should be ready for whatever that follows, and it’s one of the reasons you’re told to only save what you can afford to lose.

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on December 22, 2019, 10:18:23 AM

Ballast? I don't think I've ever heard that term used about a currency before, and I've been reading financial news for at least twenty years now. I'm not sure if OP is applying it where it's not quite appropriate or if I've missed out on some new jargon lately.

Quote from: Dart18 on December 22, 2019, 08:56:29 AM

Why go far into talking about ballast.
Why not just say stability?

Beats me. It might be easier (and clearer) to say that bitcoin is extremely volatile, and the reason it's not stable is because 1) it's relatively new, and 2) it floats on the open market much like a share of a stock and gets traded quite a bit. Maybe if it had a higher market cap it might be a little less volatile, which tends to be the case with large cap stocks. Don't know where the ballast part comes in.

You hit the nail on the head. The stability is not there because its traded not only in the open market but over the course of many unregulated markets. As volume increases and regulations take a foothold the volatility will decrease more and more. Can anyone remember how stable usd was in the first 10 years of its infancy Cheesy

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Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 12:11:42 PM

Come on guys, I'm not that old, but it was gold was a ballast, time of the gold standard. Today, the most obvious and easy way to identify is the correlation between state fiscal capacity and the value of money. When the state's fiscal capacity is changed, I know the very subjective characteristics to determine this ability, but it is not a completely free thing. When we look more closely, we see that the less fragmented a society is and the more united it becomes in its ideal lathes, the less uncertainty about its currency and consequently the stronger it is.
this Bitcoin does not have and never will, I am sorry.
The ballast aways be necessário, they apperent unnecessary is a illusion.

Probably something lost in translation but I totally get that opinion that Bitcoin does not have one cohesive society (probably true now) but we won't have enough data or time to find out if it never will.

Gold has certainly outlived modern economists too (in the 1970s they predicted the dominance of fiat would eradicate gold's value in a decade, and it has only become stronger). I don't see why Bitcoin won't go on to prove the economists wrong today.

Remember, rational models no longer work.

hugeblack

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It is a mistake to rely on one variable to describe a currency as having no future.
I did not understand your description of the currency, but it seems inaccurate. The guarantee you are talking about varies from one currency to another. For example, paper money is a guarantee of government promises.
Gold represents an asset that have a value on it self, and Bitcoin depends on the revolutionary technology that supports it in addition to providing solutions that cannot be solved by paper money and therefore it is valuable.

Amel

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Quote from: Ucy on December 24, 2019, 03:07:10 AM

Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 08:38:28 AM

the ballast of a currency is given by the social cohesion of a society.
Bitcoin has no such characteristics, so it has no future.
You can bet against it, you just can't assess the time horizon of your downfall.

Stability could be faked for any currency. I bet many currencies will collapse if they are allowed to free float naturally. If the stability of fiat currencies are determined by the so called ballast, why do we have "people" fighting day and night to keep them artificially stable?
Bitcoin could easily be kept stable with algorithm but how do we know the currency is doing well or not?
If most fiats are allowed to float like Bitcoin, they probably would not last long.

What do you mean by this floating? decentralized? As far as I know, bitcoin has survived all this time because of the decentralized system itself, bitcoin has been floating freely for the past 10 years and that has made bitcoin go crazy. If you say it doesn't last long, on what grounds do you say it like that? before bitcoin were there similar currencies?

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Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 08:38:28 AM

the ballast of a currency is given by the social cohesion of a society.
Bitcoin has no such characteristics, so it has no future.
You can bet against it, you just can't assess the time horizon of your downfall.

I agree that we may be wrong. This is common to all people. However, it seems to me that in this case you are mistaken. You do not understand the essence of this. Cryptocurrency is something else. You can not judge cryptocurrency in the usual framework. Cryptocurrency is developing in its own way.

Ucy

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Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 08:38:28 AM

the ballast of a currency is given by the social cohesion of a society.
Bitcoin has no such characteristics, so it has no future.
You can bet against it, you just can't assess the time horizon of your downfall.

Stability could be faked for any currency. I bet many currencies will collapse if they are allowed to free float naturally. If the stability of fiat currencies are determined by the so called ballast, why do we have "people" fighting day and night to keep them artificially stable?
Bitcoin could easily be kept stable with algorithm but how do we know the currency is doing well or not?
If most fiats are allowed to float like Bitcoin, they probably would not last long.

jameshugo17

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It's been 10 years since Bitcoin appeared. Now I think bitcoin has proven itself. Bitcoin will become more common day by day. There are situations. Smaller transfers require a faster method. LN is the solution.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Average fiat currency life expectancy is equal to 27 years. That's how much your "ballast" made by "social cohesion of a society" is worth. In most cases its end up with hyperinflation (up to -90% of value in a matter of 1 month for few months)

Bitcoin can be uses as currency for more than 10 years. 30% of average fiat currency life expectancy and I'm quite sure it will beat an average no matter how many people will try to find reasons why bitcoin is not a currency.

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on December 22, 2019, 10:18:23 AM

Ballast? I don't think I've ever heard that term used about a currency before, and I've been reading financial news for at least twenty years now. I'm not sure if OP is applying it where it's not quite appropriate or if I've missed out on some new jargon lately.

never head of it too. I've been on this space in a while but never encounter this word before, as for looking it on google it is related to having limit that can be associate with stability on which I cannot clearly state if it is appropriate.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on December 22, 2019, 10:18:23 AM

Quote from: Dart18 on December 22, 2019, 08:56:29 AM

Why go far into talking about ballast.
Why not just say stability?

Beats me. It might be easier (and clearer) to say that bitcoin is extremely volatile, and the reason it's not stable is because 1) it's relatively new, and 2) it floats on the open market much like a share of a stock and gets traded quite a bit. Maybe if it had a higher market cap it might be a little less volatile, which tends to be the case with large cap stocks. Don't know where the ballast part comes in.

He's referring to the fiat currency that has a ballast or stability because it is regulated by the government in contrast with the bitcoin that has no certainty. Is there anyone who claims that bitcoin is stable? NONE. what must be the problem is that the OP is against bitcoin and cryptocurrency saying it has no future at all. Sad

panganib999

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So ballast means let's say center pillar, the one that supports it's very existence. Isn't the fact that we traders right now are trading BTC, the ballast itself? Also, with the adoption of BTC to various stores, with it being used as a MOP right now, that could serve as it's ballast as well. See, currency wasn't limited to fiat. It started with gold and silver coins then started to move on to fiat, and all these were provided by the fact that humans accepted them as a form of currency. Without that acceptance, fiat could've never moved on from the age of gold and silver, and could've never moved on from the system of bartering where you just trade and no certain medium to trade items properly with.

With us traders as proof, the ballast itself of Crypto is forming slowly. Starting from us, towards the entire world. Easy as that. We wouldn't be here nor you without the so called ballast you are saying right now.

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Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 08:38:28 AM

the ballast of a currency is given by the social cohesion of a society.
Bitcoin has no such characteristics, so it has no future.
You can bet against it, you just can't assess the time horizon of your downfall.

In 300 BC Aristotle described what are traits of money. https://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10370.html Until now that had not changed, or some modern philosopher would expand his theory. I dont see he mention "the ballast of a currency" .

LucioLemgruber

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Come on guys, I'm not that old, but it was gold was a ballast, time of the gold standard. Today, the most obvious and easy way to identify is the correlation between state fiscal capacity and the value of money. When the state's fiscal capacity is changed, I know the very subjective characteristics to determine this ability, but it is not a completely free thing. When we look more closely, we see that the less fragmented a society is and the more united it becomes in its ideal lathes, the less uncertainty about its currency and consequently the stronger it is.
this Bitcoin does not have and never will, I am sorry.
The ballast aways be necessário, they apperent unnecessary is a illusion.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Ballast? I don't think I've ever heard that term used about a currency before, and I've been reading financial news for at least twenty years now. I'm not sure if OP is applying it where it's not quite appropriate or if I've missed out on some new jargon lately.

Quote from: Dart18 on December 22, 2019, 08:56:29 AM

Why go far into talking about ballast.
Why not just say stability?

Beats me. It might be easier (and clearer) to say that bitcoin is extremely volatile, and the reason it's not stable is because 1) it's relatively new, and 2) it floats on the open market much like a share of a stock and gets traded quite a bit. Maybe if it had a higher market cap it might be a little less volatile, which tends to be the case with large cap stocks. Don't know where the ballast part comes in.

Cherylstar86

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Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 08:52:04 AM

I'm talking about ballast, today there is a discussion about whether or not coins need ballast. they need, but in a superior way, they are the result of the strength of a society, the strength of a common ideal that unites them. This is reflected in a government with fiscal capacity, which is the most obvious form of ballast, which most of the time remains hidden to untrained eyes.

I got your point mate. Well, as far as I know it needs a long time study about your own analysis since the market is so down and very bearish it not easy as what you think. Many crypto enthusiasts affected about the situation of the market and it should each and everyone of us must aware the next things to do in order to avoid the possible consequences in the end.

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Quote from: LucioLemgruber on December 22, 2019, 09:12:51 AM

Ballast grants stability, not the other way around. There is always something that causes stability.

Did you mean a stabilizer? Grin

Let's assume "the ballast" is the social cohesion like what you said. How could Bitcoin not promote social cohesion?

LucioLemgruber

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Ballast grants stability, not the other way around. There is always something that causes stability.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Currency is just a promise though that you'll be able to exchange it for food/clothes/stocks at some point. Everything represented by a number is almost always a human generated arbitrary unit to explain something and money is the same...

Internationally currency reflects confidence in a certain country. If someone has a large amount of cash, they wouldn't want to store it in just the one currency so the demand on a currency is reflected in its value on exchanges. It's why uncertainty manipulates the market more than actual legislation (in most cases).

The idiot stores their funds in cash alone... You can at least hold anything more than a few months expenses in stocks to keep your portfolio of non emergency cash growing.

Sidenote: have you learnt a new word today (ballast)?

Dart18

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Why go far into talking about ballast.
Why not just say stability?

That is what we don't know. This is kind of discussion had been discussed here for a lot of times already but they are just using the word "stability" which is just the same.
Look, it is volatile now but ain't gold the same way before?
Who knows what an ounce of gold is valued before. They just use it for barters or creating a coin but that doesn't mean it has an exact value.
Same goes for the young bitcoin. Maybe you should try looking at the future then we can find out.
Who know what will happen tomorrow.

LucioLemgruber

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I'm talking about ballast, today there is a discussion about whether or not coins need ballast. they need, but in a superior way, they are the result of the strength of a society, the strength of a common ideal that unites them. This is reflected in a government with fiscal capacity, which is the most obvious form of ballast, which most of the time remains hidden to untrained eyes.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Actually you're wrong about currency.

A currency does well because a bank or government gives incentives for its use or promises it will be worth something.

Assets like bitcoin and gold can, for the moment at least, be considered more material than actual currency...

LucioLemgruber

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the ballast of a currency is given by the social cohesion of a society.
Bitcoin has no such characteristics, so it has no future.
You can bet against it, you just can't assess the time horizon of your downfall.

Topic: The ballast (Read 269 times)