The best countries tax wise for Bitcoin

zasad@

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Quote from: boumalo on January 09, 2024, 06:38:15 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on January 03, 2024, 06:20:42 AM

Quote from: boumalo on December 21, 2023, 02:40:37 PM

United Arab Emirates is pretty good!

0% and legal as long as it was not obtained illegally.

In the United Arab Emirates, taxes are included in the standard of living. In these countries, real estate is very expensive, legal services for registering companies, medicine, education and real estate rental are also expensive. 4-5 months of the year it is very hot there, and if you are not used to temperatures of 50 degrees Celsius during the day, then it will be very difficult for you.

Not more than in most big western countries.

Some prices are lower such as construction and home services.

I saw OK flats at 500$/month.

The UAE is an expensive country to live in, and for $500 you won’t get the best apartment to rent. I have not been to Qatar or Bahrain, but I can say that it is cheaper to live in Saudi Arabia if there are no problems with visas. Gasoline prices there are cheaper than in Europe, but the UAE is a good place for a crypto company, although many have moved to Lisbon.

icalical

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Quote from: boumalo on February 15, 2022, 02:11:48 PM

January 4th 2022 article, unknown website https://koinly.io/blog/crypto-tax-free-countries/

Can't find the exact number for the crypto tax on this article, most of it is tricks on how to avoid getting taxed on crypto. But I always consider that Indonesia is still generous related to tax, 0.11% for crypto trading plus 0.1% for annual profit. But there are also specific tax for miners on top of those 2 tax, so miners will get doubled (or triple) tax because they get taxed when they store their mined Bitcoin and they will be taxed again when they trade their Bitcoin, and taxed again if they hold their mined Bitcoin and it gain value.

boumalo

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Quote from: zasad@ on January 03, 2024, 06:20:42 AM

Quote from: boumalo on December 21, 2023, 02:40:37 PM

United Arab Emirates is pretty good!

0% and legal as long as it was not obtained illegally.

In the United Arab Emirates, taxes are included in the standard of living. In these countries, real estate is very expensive, legal services for registering companies, medicine, education and real estate rental are also expensive. 4-5 months of the year it is very hot there, and if you are not used to temperatures of 50 degrees Celsius during the day, then it will be very difficult for you.

Not more than in most big western countries.

Some prices are lower such as construction and home services.

I saw OK flats at 500$/month.

aoluain

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From the OP's list and being European I would opt for Portugal, Malta, Germany then Switzerland
in order of preference.

I have looked into living in Portugal and Malta based on their Tax conditions to Bitcoin and they are
very favourable ^{well they were when I last checked}. At this stage though I think you
have to be resident there for a year initially to avail of free Tax on crypto, you cant just arrive, liquidate
and not pay Tax.

Other countires to consider are the smallest states in the EU like Andorra and Leichtenstein

Capital gains Tax in Andorra is 10% [not zero but still very low] and when I last checked Leichtenstein
had zero captial gains tax

zasad@

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Quote from: boumalo on December 21, 2023, 02:40:37 PM

United Arab Emirates is pretty good!

0% and legal as long as it was not obtained illegally.

In the United Arab Emirates, taxes are included in the standard of living. In these countries, real estate is very expensive, legal services for registering companies, medicine, education and real estate rental are also expensive. 4-5 months of the year it is very hot there, and if you are not used to temperatures of 50 degrees Celsius during the day, then it will be very difficult for you.

boumalo

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Quote from: paid2 on December 24, 2023, 04:46:12 PM

Quote from: tread93 on December 24, 2023, 04:42:15 PM

I know someone from Grand Cayman who is living that tax free lifestyle, thats the way to go! Makes me want to move over to the carribbean! It would certainly be an adventure living in any of these countries wouldn't it! I for one would love to visit all of them, I only wish that the US was this way!

Yeah but what you gain thanks to the lack of taxes, you will lose it because of the cost of living, nope?

Island life is not for everyone and there is not always much to do I heard.

Some tax free countries have bad tax treaties so dividends can get taxed up to 90% from the country of origin of the company. For example if you have shares of a French company and you live in the Bahamas, France taxes 90% of the dividends you get from the company before it reaches you even if you are not a France tax resident.

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Quote from: tread93 on December 24, 2023, 04:42:15 PM

I know someone from Grand Cayman who is living that tax free lifestyle, thats the way to go! Makes me want to move over to the carribbean! It would certainly be an adventure living in any of these countries wouldn't it! I for one would love to visit all of them, I only wish that the US was this way!

Yeah but what you gain thanks to the lack of taxes, you will lose it because of the cost of living, nope?

tread93

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I know someone from Grand Cayman who is living that tax free lifestyle, thats the way to go! Makes me want to move over to the carribbean! It would certainly be an adventure living in any of these countries wouldn't it! I for one would love to visit all of them, I only wish that the US was this way!

boumalo

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United Arab Emirates is pretty good!

0% and legal as long as it was not obtained illegally.

countryfree

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Quote from: paid2 on June 18, 2023, 06:31:29 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on June 18, 2023, 06:00:07 AM

Bulgaria is not a country where it is so safe and comfortable. Many European countries are raising taxes. In Poland, the tax is already 19%, and in a year or a year and a half in European countries there will be almost the same tax. If you are satisfied with such a tax, then this is your choice.

I've lived in most of Bulgaria's main cities, and I can confirm that I feel much safer here than in any Western European country I've ever known (I was born in France, and I've lived in the UK, Germany and Spain). I think anyone who has grown up in Western Europe and then lived in Eastern Europe would agree that insecurity is a very Western thing in Europe.

10% of flat taxes is good for me, I can't think of a better alternative in my personal situation. Perhaps Malta or Gibraltar would be more advantageous, but what I would gain in taxes, I would lose because of the higher cost of living.

I agree that Bulgaria is nice and safe. And cheap, too. I could live there (maybe I will), whereas there are more and more cities in western Europe which I try to avoid as much as I can.

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Quote from: zasad@ on June 18, 2023, 06:00:07 AM

Bulgaria is not a country where it is so safe and comfortable. Many European countries are raising taxes. In Poland, the tax is already 19%, and in a year or a year and a half in European countries there will be almost the same tax. If you are satisfied with such a tax, then this is your choice.

I've lived in most of Bulgaria's main cities, and I can confirm that I feel much safer here than in any Western European country I've ever known (I was born in France, and I've lived in the UK, Germany and Spain). I think anyone who has grown up in Western Europe and then lived in Eastern Europe would agree that insecurity is a very Western thing in Europe.

10% of flat taxes is good for me, I can't think of a better alternative in my personal situation. Perhaps Malta or Gibraltar would be more advantageous, but what I would gain in taxes, I would lose because of the higher cost of living.

zasad@

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Quote from: paid2 on June 17, 2023, 07:47:36 AM

Bulgaria is a very good compromise for Europeans. There is a flat tax of 10% and you keep the privileges of the European Union. The cost of living is very low, there are jobs in almost every European language in certain fields, and private property is not expensive. That's the choice my wife and I made, but it was made easier by the fact that we're flexible in terms of employment and have no real responsibilities other than ourselves, and that we've already lived in other countries that were more difficult in terms of integration and administration. What convinced me was the cost of electricity, which can be extremely low here with certain contracts, as I have a mining farm.

Slovenia was very pleasant, an incredible living environment, but the laws on taxation of cryptos are becoming disadvantageous, and it is undergoing too much Westernisation unfortunately.

Many people talk about Portugal, but personally, in all my calculations, I would have lost out there because the advantages were only temporary and for certain thresholds.

Bulgaria is not a country where it is so safe and comfortable. Many European countries are raising taxes. In Poland, the tax is already 19%, and in a year or a year and a half in European countries there will be almost the same tax. If you are satisfied with such a tax, then this is your choice.

Poker Player

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on June 17, 2023, 01:47:50 PM

Accusing somebody of being dishonest is quite a way to start a debate, yeah...

Well no, I have not accused you of being dishonest before and anyone can check it by reading my post. Both your answer and the word "dishonest" you use have more to do with a third person than with what I wrote.

For you to answer me like that, I better not talk to you, so welcome to my ignore list.

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Quote from: Poker Player on June 15, 2023, 11:59:37 PM

But hey, my intention was to debate, not to pose this as a battle with winners and losers.

Accusing somebody of being dishonest is quite a way to start a debate, yeah...

Quote from: Poker Player on June 15, 2023, 11:59:37 PM

Deliberately? You talked about Germany and I answered you talking about Germany, or am I missing something here?

I was talking about your France and Italy examples.

Quote from: paid2 on June 17, 2023, 07:47:36 AM

Bulgaria is a very good compromise for Europeans. There is a flat tax of 10% and you keep the privileges of the European Union. The cost of living is very low, there are jobs in almost every European language in certain fields, and private property is not expensive. That's the choice my wife and I made, but it was made easier by the fact that we're flexible in terms of employment and have no real responsibilities other than ourselves, and that we've already lived in other countries that were more difficult in terms of integration and administration. What convinced me was the cost of electricity, which can be extremely low here with certain contracts, as I have a mining farm.

Slovenia was very pleasant, an incredible living environment, but the laws on taxation of cryptos are becoming disadvantageous, and it is undergoing too much Westernisation unfortunately.

Many people talk about Portugal, but personally, in all my calculations, I would have lost out there because the advantages were only temporary and for certain thresholds.

Nice examples. Afaik Croatia has also interesting laws on crypto taxation.
I'm surprised about what you're telling on Portugal. I guess I'm a bit behind with this, I'll have to research...

Woodie

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El Salvador seems like a well known name in our crypto circles and doesn't surprise me that this can be considered a crypto haven, but unfortunately nothing much is said about the tax element when it comes to cryprocurrencies like bitcoin.

Another country that seems to be living under the radar definitely has to be the Cayman Islands, too many shell companies seem to be coming from this and am guessing it could be in the lines of tax holidays..

Otherwise, if tax is our main concern then most countries that don't consider Bitcoin legal tender could be a good choice but to play it safe, stick to countries that have legalized or recognized BTC!

paid2

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Bulgaria is a very good compromise for Europeans. There is a flat tax of 10% and you keep the privileges of the European Union. The cost of living is very low, there are jobs in almost every European language in certain fields, and private property is not expensive. That's the choice my wife and I made, but it was made easier by the fact that we're flexible in terms of employment and have no real responsibilities other than ourselves, and that we've already lived in other countries that were more difficult in terms of integration and administration. What convinced me was the cost of electricity, which can be extremely low here with certain contracts, as I have a mining farm.

Slovenia was very pleasant, an incredible living environment, but the laws on taxation of cryptos are becoming disadvantageous, and it is undergoing too much Westernisation unfortunately.

Many people talk about Portugal, but personally, in all my calculations, I would have lost out there because the advantages were only temporary and for certain thresholds.

countryfree

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Quote from: zasad@ on June 16, 2023, 07:27:07 AM

Quote from: countryfree on June 15, 2023, 07:45:46 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on June 15, 2023, 06:46:49 AM

Quote from: Zoomic on June 14, 2023, 06:10:17 PM

Quote from: royalfestus on June 09, 2023, 02:01:25 PM

Nigeria deserves to be on the list because its citizens benefit from minimal taxation through peer-to-peer (P2P) transactions, and an impressive 5.75% of the global cryptocurrency ownership belongs to Nigerians. (According recent word statistics)

I do not even think Nigerians are taxed at all. Nigerians have an easy ride. The country doesn't permit crypto trading with their local banks so there is no how the banks will work out the taxing. So the Nigerians find ways to trade among themselves and using exchanges p2p with paying any form of tax.

If someone is looking for a country with the best tax treatment for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, then they will probably choose a country with a developed economy and a friendly banking system.
If you need a country where there is no control over cryptocurrency, no taxes, or you have many opportunities not to pay taxes, then this is Russia. In Nigeria, there are no such shadow cryptocurrency markets as in Russia, and no one plans to close this market yet.

Maybe I'm special, but I don't want to live in Russia, nor in Nigeria.
I'd rather choose a country which I like, then find a way to optimize, or evade taxation there.

If you like Europe or the USA, then there are higher taxes on cryptocurrencies than in Russia and Nigeria. You can not evade taxes in Russia and pay 6% taxes, and with your tax return, confirm your income in Turkey or Dubai, if you need it. If you are a tourist, there are still many countries where there is no serious tax control.

I know. I've been taking advantages of those for many years.

Quote from: Zoomic on June 15, 2023, 06:29:36 PM

Quote from: countryfree on June 15, 2023, 07:45:46 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on June 15, 2023, 06:46:49 AM

Quote from: Zoomic on June 14, 2023, 06:10:17 PM

Quote from: royalfestus on June 09, 2023, 02:01:25 PM

Nigeria deserves to be on the list because its citizens benefit from minimal taxation through peer-to-peer (P2P) transactions, and an impressive 5.75% of the global cryptocurrency ownership belongs to Nigerians. (According recent word statistics)

I do not even think Nigerians are taxed at all. Nigerians have an easy ride. The country doesn't permit crypto trading with their local banks so there is no how the banks will work out the taxing. So the Nigerians find ways to trade among themselves and using exchanges p2p with paying any form of tax.

If someone is looking for a country with the best tax treatment for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, then they will probably choose a country with a developed economy and a friendly banking system.
If you need a country where there is no control over cryptocurrency, no taxes, or you have many opportunities not to pay taxes, then this is Russia. In Nigeria, there are no such shadow cryptocurrency markets as in Russia, and no one plans to close this market yet.

Maybe I'm special, but I don't want to live in Russia, nor in Nigeria.
I'd rather choose a country which I like, then find a way to optimize, or evade taxation there.

When you said you won't live neither in Russia nor in Nigeria, I would have thought that your reason is that you are looking for a developed and peaceful country which is what many people seek for. Trying to evade tax is against the law and you can be dealt with if caught. It is better you live where you won't be taxed at all in crypto than living where you will put yourself in the extra stress of evading tax which is illegal.

Paying tax is stressful! Being a citizen is even more stressful. That's what I gave up.

zasad@

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Quote from: countryfree on June 15, 2023, 07:45:46 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on June 15, 2023, 06:46:49 AM

Quote from: Zoomic on June 14, 2023, 06:10:17 PM

Quote from: royalfestus on June 09, 2023, 02:01:25 PM

Nigeria deserves to be on the list because its citizens benefit from minimal taxation through peer-to-peer (P2P) transactions, and an impressive 5.75% of the global cryptocurrency ownership belongs to Nigerians. (According recent word statistics)

I do not even think Nigerians are taxed at all. Nigerians have an easy ride. The country doesn't permit crypto trading with their local banks so there is no how the banks will work out the taxing. So the Nigerians find ways to trade among themselves and using exchanges p2p with paying any form of tax.

If someone is looking for a country with the best tax treatment for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, then they will probably choose a country with a developed economy and a friendly banking system.
If you need a country where there is no control over cryptocurrency, no taxes, or you have many opportunities not to pay taxes, then this is Russia. In Nigeria, there are no such shadow cryptocurrency markets as in Russia, and no one plans to close this market yet.

Maybe I'm special, but I don't want to live in Russia, nor in Nigeria.
I'd rather choose a country which I like, then find a way to optimize, or evade taxation there.

If you like Europe or the USA, then there are higher taxes on cryptocurrencies than in Russia and Nigeria. You can not evade taxes in Russia and pay 6% taxes, and with your tax return, confirm your income in Turkey or Dubai, if you need it. If you are a tourist, there are still many countries where there is no serious tax control.

Poker Player

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on June 15, 2023, 02:40:52 PM

Not credible and "vain hope"? LOL! You come more than a year later saying that?! A lot changes in a year (do I really have to say that?!)
Back then I did expect that. Meanwhile the things somehow got.. slower, which is a surprise for me.
And, if you read, I wrote "some" countries. A possible short could contain Poland, Croatia, Romania, countries that imho look up to Germany. Especially France is expected to take its own decision (which may or may not be identical to Germany's),

Well no, I hadn't noticed the date, although I could have guessed it, because in this section the threads move much slower.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on June 15, 2023, 02:40:52 PM

hence you deliberately picked at least one poor example.

Deliberately? You talked about Germany and I answered you talking about Germany, or am I missing something here?

Also, as far as I remember, laws favorable to cryptocurrencies already existed years ago, not just a year ago, which is the gap in this thread between your post and my reply. But hey, my intention was to debate, not to pose this as a battle with winners and losers.

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Quote from: countryfree on June 15, 2023, 07:45:46 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on June 15, 2023, 06:46:49 AM

Quote from: Zoomic on June 14, 2023, 06:10:17 PM

Quote from: royalfestus on June 09, 2023, 02:01:25 PM

Nigeria deserves to be on the list because its citizens benefit from minimal taxation through peer-to-peer (P2P) transactions, and an impressive 5.75% of the global cryptocurrency ownership belongs to Nigerians. (According recent word statistics)

I do not even think Nigerians are taxed at all. Nigerians have an easy ride. The country doesn't permit crypto trading with their local banks so there is no how the banks will work out the taxing. So the Nigerians find ways to trade among themselves and using exchanges p2p with paying any form of tax.

If someone is looking for a country with the best tax treatment for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, then they will probably choose a country with a developed economy and a friendly banking system.
If you need a country where there is no control over cryptocurrency, no taxes, or you have many opportunities not to pay taxes, then this is Russia. In Nigeria, there are no such shadow cryptocurrency markets as in Russia, and no one plans to close this market yet.

Maybe I'm special, but I don't want to live in Russia, nor in Nigeria.
I'd rather choose a country which I like, then find a way to optimize, or evade taxation there.

When you said you won't live neither in Russia nor in Nigeria, I would have thought that your reason is that you are looking for a developed and peaceful country which is what many people seek for. Trying to evade tax is against the law and you can be dealt with if caught. It is better you live where you won't be taxed at all in crypto than living where you will put yourself in the extra stress of evading tax which is illegal.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: Poker Player on June 13, 2023, 11:39:15 PM

Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 16, 2022, 05:41:49 AM

4. If Germany's crypto tax is lax, I expect this will be copied in some other European countries in the not-so-far future, hence it may not be a bad idea to have a bit more patience and keep the eyes open.

I would find the statement more credible if you had used "I hope" instead of "I expect", which implies a more vain hope. Germany has had a more favorable legislation to cryptocurrencies for many years, and there has not been the copying effect you are talking about, so I do not expect it to happen, except in some specific case perhaps and for other reasons, not for copying what Germany does. In the same way, Germany is called the European locomotive because it has an economic policy different from the rest, which encourages productivity and mass competition, and France with its elephantine state or Italy with its peculiarities do not copy it.

Not credible and "vain hope"? LOL! You come more than a year later saying that?! A lot changes in a year (do I really have to say that?!)
Back then I did expect that. Meanwhile the things somehow got.. slower, which is a surprise for me.
And, if you read, I wrote "some" countries. A possible short could contain Poland, Croatia, Romania, countries that imho look up to Germany. Especially France is expected to take its own decision (which may or may not be identical to Germany's), hence you deliberately picked at least one poor example.

However, since then there were news that made me lower my expectations by a great deal, hence now I'm indeed at the "I hope" stage.
And yeah, believe what you want.

countryfree

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Quote from: zasad@ on June 15, 2023, 06:46:49 AM

Quote from: Zoomic on June 14, 2023, 06:10:17 PM

Quote from: royalfestus on June 09, 2023, 02:01:25 PM

Nigeria deserves to be on the list because its citizens benefit from minimal taxation through peer-to-peer (P2P) transactions, and an impressive 5.75% of the global cryptocurrency ownership belongs to Nigerians. (According recent word statistics)

I do not even think Nigerians are taxed at all. Nigerians have an easy ride. The country doesn't permit crypto trading with their local banks so there is no how the banks will work out the taxing. So the Nigerians find ways to trade among themselves and using exchanges p2p with paying any form of tax.

If someone is looking for a country with the best tax treatment for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, then they will probably choose a country with a developed economy and a friendly banking system.
If you need a country where there is no control over cryptocurrency, no taxes, or you have many opportunities not to pay taxes, then this is Russia. In Nigeria, there are no such shadow cryptocurrency markets as in Russia, and no one plans to close this market yet.

Maybe I'm special, but I don't want to live in Russia, nor in Nigeria.
I'd rather choose a country which I like, then find a way to optimize, or evade taxation there.

zasad@

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Quote from: Zoomic on June 14, 2023, 06:10:17 PM

Quote from: royalfestus on June 09, 2023, 02:01:25 PM

Nigeria deserves to be on the list because its citizens benefit from minimal taxation through peer-to-peer (P2P) transactions, and an impressive 5.75% of the global cryptocurrency ownership belongs to Nigerians. (According recent word statistics)

I do not even think Nigerians are taxed at all. Nigerians have an easy ride. The country doesn't permit crypto trading with their local banks so there is no how the banks will work out the taxing. So the Nigerians find ways to trade among themselves and using exchanges p2p with paying any form of tax.

If someone is looking for a country with the best tax treatment for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, then they will probably choose a country with a developed economy and a friendly banking system.
If you need a country where there is no control over cryptocurrency, no taxes, or you have many opportunities not to pay taxes, then this is Russia. In Nigeria, there are no such shadow cryptocurrency markets as in Russia, and no one plans to close this market yet.

Zoomic

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Quote from: royalfestus on June 09, 2023, 02:01:25 PM

Nigeria deserves to be on the list because its citizens benefit from minimal taxation through peer-to-peer (P2P) transactions, and an impressive 5.75% of the global cryptocurrency ownership belongs to Nigerians. (According recent word statistics)

I do not even think Nigerians are taxed at all. Nigerians have an easy ride. The country doesn't permit crypto trading with their local banks so there is no how the banks will work out the taxing. So the Nigerians find ways to trade among themselves and using exchanges p2p with paying any form of tax.

zasad@

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In Europe there is always more control. It is easier to legalize in Asia or other offshore zones where taxes on cryptocurrencies are close to 0. I would like to see how the MICA law starts to work, but I am sure that this will entail very high costs for crypto companies in the KYC officers and lawyers.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

I've lived in Germany for a while, and I was happy to leave.
Doing business is quite awful there. It's only a nice place as a tourist, but you can have a second home there, spend there a few months per year, and yes, it will be enjoyable. Best places are near the Bodensee.

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 16, 2022, 05:41:49 AM

4. If Germany's crypto tax is lax, I expect this will be copied in some other European countries in the not-so-far future, hence it may not be a bad idea to have a bit more patience and keep the eyes open.

I would find the statement more credible if you had used "I hope" instead of "I expect", which implies a more vain hope. Germany has had a more favorable legislation to cryptocurrencies for many years, and there has not been the copying effect you are talking about, so I do not expect it to happen, except in some specific case perhaps and for other reasons, not for copying what Germany does. In the same way, Germany is called the European locomotive because it has an economic policy different from the rest, which encourages productivity and mass competition, and France with its elephantine state or Italy with its peculiarities do not copy it.

royalfestus

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Nigeria deserves to be on the list because its citizens benefit from minimal taxation through peer-to-peer (P2P) transactions, and an impressive 5.75% of the global cryptocurrency ownership belongs to Nigerians. (According recent word statistics)

zasad@

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I like the politics of Dubai. You can register a company in the DIFC free zone, it will take 1-2 months and 10-15K dollars, if you use the services of intermediaries, you will get a work visa. If the company earns less than $200,000 per year, the tax is 0%.

goldkingcoiner

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I agree with Germany being the best country, tax wise for any cryptocurrency. But then again that only holds true if you can fulfill the expected conditions. If you hodl your crypto and do not sell/trade for one year, then you do not have to pay any taxes on the profits. You are allowed to shift your crypto from one wallet to the next, but as soon as you trade crypto for crypto, thats considered selling too.

We are seeing new laws for staking rewards that consider a 10 year rule, however, as far as I know, pure hodling is still 1 year.

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Quote from: Obito on February 16, 2022, 08:42:33 AM

I think Philippines would be a great one too, I have a friend who makes a lot of money already and I don't think that he pays that much tax. I too don't even though I make an amount that's already taxable in a regular setting. I don't recommend going to the country though, cost of living is low but the quality of life isn't good.

It is because Philippines hasn’t introduced crypto taxes yet. For now, we are paying a normal tax rate base on our income range whether monthly, quarterly or annually. If our income is below 250,000 Philippine peso annually, we’re exempted from getting taxed.

However, if it’s above, of course we are required to report that to the Bureau of Internal Revenue. As self-employed, we are only taxed for realized income (for instance crypto to fiat to bank) and not on capital gains or unrealized income.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: SFR10 on February 16, 2022, 02:42:18 PM

^{- Are you implying that most of the European countries also have such a thing in place?}

I don't know how it is, hence I didn't try to imply anything.
I would not be surprised though if the tax of the old country is bigger than the one from the new country, one would have to also pay the difference in the old country.
But again, this is speculation, I don't know for sure how it is.

SFR10

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Quote from: boumalo on February 15, 2022, 02:11:48 PM

Any other countries/states ?

Perhaps "some" of the missing names from "this article" from last year, are still relevant in 2022...

e.g. Antigua

Antigua Announces No New Taxes for Upcoming Year
Antigua and Barbuda Tax Guide
- Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 16, 2022, 05:41:49 AM
  1. Most probably one will have to give up the old citizenship in order to benefit of these countries.
  I'm fortunate enough to be a citizen of two countries with fair tax laws, so the above line doesn't apply to me ^{[normally, if I only had one]} but AFAIK, that's a big problem for US citizens ^{[unfortunately]}.
  ^{- Are you implying that most of the European countries also have such a thing in place?}

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It is not easy to move to another country. There is a difference in culture, lifestyle, and many other things to take into account. You find yourself away from your family, friends, and everything you knew before. You may even have to quit your job and maybe not even find another one later on. It's great not to pay taxes, but if you're going to be unemployed in a country where you don't speak the language well, it's not even worth it.

Moving to another country can be fun when you are in your twenties, but at a certain age, it is not an easy thing to do, especially when you have a family, children, a house, a job, responsibilities and all that

How many of us here have left our country to settle in another? All that to take advantage of a tax break? Not many, in my opinion. One hand would be enough to count them.

People thinking they can stay unnoticed until now will maybe cry later when more data is harvested and a lot of automation is done. With technology, governments are becoming more effective at detecting fraudsters. Nowadays, it is more and more difficult to cheat on taxes compared to 20 years ago.

I cheated once but I learned a good lesson. They never forget you Roll Eyes

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Quote from: Obito on February 16, 2022, 10:05:28 AM

Quote from: stompix on February 16, 2022, 09:31:48 AM

Quote from: Obito on February 16, 2022, 09:15:41 AM

~snip

So you're just avoiding taxes, which could land you in trouble unlike in the countries mentioned above where you can do this legally!

It's a yes and a no, in the eyes of the law, we are poor and minimum wage earners, they don't investigate you even if you buy stuff with crypto, they're too corrupt for their own good so us people that fade in the background get away with it. And the taxes for most Filipinos are already paid when we buy our products and we have a high income rate that considers you as tax exempted anyways.

@Obito don't you think that you have not bought certain product that is involving large number or fraction of bitcoin and that is why the government has not noticed it. I think so because you are spending very minimal amount of bitcoin and they may think you have that through faucet Grin

But the point is you have gone unnoticed because you spending just little , if you spend big amount you can see things can change and you don't evade again.

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Quote from: stompix on February 16, 2022, 09:31:48 AM

Quote from: Obito on February 16, 2022, 09:15:41 AM

~snip

So you're just avoiding taxes, which could land you in trouble unlike in the countries mentioned above where you can do this legally!

It's a yes and a no, in the eyes of the law, we are poor and minimum wage earners, they don't investigate you even if you buy stuff with crypto, they're too corrupt for their own good so us people that fade in the background get away with it. And the taxes for most Filipinos are already paid when we buy our products and we have a high income rate that considers you as tax exempted anyways.

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Quote from: Obito on February 16, 2022, 09:15:41 AM

Not really my guy, if you live here then you know that the legislation or bills passed will only be implemented strictly for about 3 months and then the people are going to forget about it, that's why I was confident that you can avoid taxes here with your crypto, the only time that you're going to pay taxes is if it's in fiat.

So you're just avoiding taxes, which could land you in trouble unlike in the countries mentioned above where you can do this legally! And no country in that list taxes crypto gains in the same crypto, lol, how would that ever be possible? If you follow the law once you sell any coin at a profit in the Philippines you must pay income tax since you have income, that's the law if you know differently please link the law that exempts you from this.

Again, this is not about getting away while breaking the law, this is how to live your life peacefully without surprise visits from the police while not paying a penny.

Just because the police don't give a damn about speeding and you haven't got a ticket in 10 years it doesn't mean there is no speed limit, unless, funny coincidence, you're in Germany again Grin

Obito

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Quote from: stompix on February 16, 2022, 09:09:01 AM

Quote from: Obito on February 16, 2022, 08:42:33 AM

~snip

If a person doesn't pay "that much' tax in most cases is because of tax evasion and not low taxes.

According to the laws, it seems that income in crypto is taxed the same way as normal income, so assuming you have made 1BTC in profits and you cash that out you're going to end in the near last threshold and pay around the equivalent of $11k in tax.
Comparing that to Germany where you just have to hold the crypto for one year and you're tax-exempt, legally!!!!

Not really my guy, if you live here then you know that the legislation or bills passed will only be implemented strictly for about 3 months and then the people are going to forget about it, that's why I was confident that you can avoid taxes here with your crypto, the only time that you're going to pay taxes is if it's in fiat. Also with the advent of Axie Infinity in the country, how come those that have made money in the early pump didn't get any visit from the tax bureau?

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Quote from: Obito on February 16, 2022, 08:42:33 AM

I think Philippines would be a great one too, I have a friend who makes a lot of money already and I don't think that he pays that much tax.

If a person doesn't pay "that much' tax in most cases is because of tax evasion and not low taxes.

According to the laws, it seems that income in crypto is taxed the same way as normal income, so assuming you have made 1BTC in profits and you cash that out you're going to end in the near last threshold and pay around the equivalent of $11k in tax.
Comparing that to Germany where you just have to hold the crypto for one year and you're tax-exempt, legally!!!!

Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 16, 2022, 05:41:49 AM

Well, as European I would not choose a country from outside Europe because the laws may become (very) strange for actually living there.

And most poeple think the same even if they live in way poorer countries.
That's why we didn't have even 100 000, that's 0.03% of the claimed number of crypto owners moving to Salvador. Cheesy

Obito

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I think Philippines would be a great one too, I have a friend who makes a lot of money already and I don't think that he pays that much tax. I too don't even though I make an amount that's already taxable in a regular setting. I don't recommend going to the country though, cost of living is low but the quality of life isn't good.

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 16, 2022, 05:41:49 AM

1. Most probably one will have to give up the old citizenship in order to benefit of these countries.

Yes, the process is a little more complicated than just finding a rent over there and moving out. Some of the countries also have their citizenship easier to obtain than others. From what I have read so far, the process seems to get harder the more nationalist or culturally-oriented the country is. On the other end, other countries offer citizenship for money and basic knowledge of the country's history, language and culture.

To me it seems that putting in the efforts to revoke your citizenship and obtain another one just for the taxes only makes sense when you have a big bag of money that is worth the time and effort.

Can confirm Portugal also seems to be a good choice tax-wise.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: boumalo on February 15, 2022, 02:11:48 PM

Any other countries/states ? Dubaï

Well, as European I would not choose a country from outside Europe because the laws may become (very) strange for actually living there.
This being said, according to newspapers, Portugal looks good.

I would add that:
1. Most probably one will have to give up the old citizenship in order to benefit of these countries.
2. There may be problems with those who bought BTC from KYC exchanges and then want to settle to "better" countries.
3. Although the tax rules in Belarus may be lax, I would not advise anyone move there, especially after what's happening there in the last 10+ months.
4. If Germany's crypto tax is lax, I expect this will be copied in some other European countries in the not-so-far future, hence it may not be a bad idea to have a bit more patience and keep the eyes open.

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Many countries have no capital gain taxes on financial assets nd they explicitly include Bitcoin.

The article lists 10 countries with favorable BTC tax rules :

Germany (!)

Belarus

El Salvador

Portugal

Singapore

Malaysia

Malta

Cayman Islands

Puerto Rico

Switzerland

January 4th 2022 article, unknown website https://koinly.io/blog/crypto-tax-free-countries/

Any other countries/states ? Dubaï don't tax gains, lot's of crypto investors/trader in Dubaï.

Topic: The best countries tax wise for Bitcoin (Read 647 times)