Topic: The comment layout is awful here (Read 483 times)

I lean in that direction, too (a conservator/preservation mindset), but I also think it's important to attract (or, at least not alienate) new users. That's a very difficult balancing act, but once in a while I see it done successfully. I don't know if you're a gamer, but one recent example that comes to mind (of something that was cherished in its original form, but also deeply appreciated in its modern form) is the work that Bluepoint did on Demon's Souls. That might seem like a strange analogy, but I think that's exactly the kind of treatment that Bitcointalk needs (i.e. modern touches where it makes sense, but without changing anything fundamental).

Yup, it's on my backlog (I agreed to look into it here), and my current thinking is to put the button inside the topic, like this:



I'd also like to get around to paginating the user ignore list at some point. When I find the time to do that, I'm thinking of experimenting with the idea of making one "unified" ignore list that can handle multiple things (i.e. users, boards, topics, etc.) though I haven't put much thought into that approach, so it may not pan out.

Honestly, I thought it was an aberration not to have a Reddit account at the time I came into this crypto industry because everyone seemed to be on it but I was disappointed when I eventually got on there. For me, it's not even user-friendly. I can't remember the last time I was on that site, let alone dropped a post there.

I hope he doesn't on this request from OP. If there's anything I don't want theymos doing, it's changing the layout here. I like the ease of navigation. I've been on other crypto sites and I can say to the best of my perspicacity that BTT takes the top.

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BTW, OP I don't see anything awful about the layout.

You know most times people always wanted the forum to be the way they thought without knowing if that same chance is given to them at their time of arrival to the forum another new arrival would also come to speak how he or she needs the forum to looks like, by then theymos could keep making changes and if time not taken we might ended up with improper layout or outlook of the forum.

So theymos decided not to respond to anyone since they aren't yet gotten familiarized with the whole concept and I believe by the time they spent days, weeks and months possibly years they would understand why the forum remain unchanged from its original version to another newer version, although I barely make use of social media because it doesn't looks like this forum and sometimes I wish Mark Z. could make a changes as well to look more like this forum for me but no way. The bottom line is we should be patient with any site we find ourselves and also learned to be used to that specific site instead of taking another version of site configuration to another without knowing that is the interface of that site.

I did not know what you proposed but assume that like many topics in Beginners & Help, proposals can be repeatedly asked by different users.

If you want to propose anything, check Community generated suggestions to improve the forum (+ eventual voting on them) to know whether it was proposed before.

theymos does sees what community discuss especially in Meta board but he prioritizes security of forum and users, not new customization or new features even they can be done in SMF forum software. Have to mention many proposed features can not be done with this software. Forum also is lack of human resource to code it.

That's probably because you belong to the newer generations that never posted on other forums or were ever a part of any forum community outside of bitcoin. And that's understandable. Many of us old folk are used to the forum culture, and we were and still are forum members in other communities outside of the crypto space. 

As you have realized by now, it isn't difficult to post and quote. Creating complex tables, for example, takes some practice and getting used to it. But that's not something you need to do every day, and many users probably never did it at all. Making simple posts and quoting those of other members is 90% of what happens on Bitcointalk. 

It is perfect as it is now. Hence the name Simple Machine Forum. Thought it was funny, ha ha  . It is simply gorgeous. Yeah for new users it can be confusing, a headache. But after you really get to know the forum everything seems perfect. When I came to this forum, I said to myself, "what the hell is this!" How do people write here, how to post here, how to comment, how to reply, it was all so hard. I didn't even know what BBcodes were. But after some time everything was normal. If you want something like facebook, Twitter, Reddit  or any other social media platform, well! Good luck with that. That would never happen. Do you know what I like about this forum? My personal opinion, It gives us a classical vibe, a nostalogic vibe. 

When I was new to this forum, I was practically suggesting many changes but theymos was adamant to my proposals, little did I know why he was deaf to my proposals and that of many others. I was obviously coming from the social media background and here appeared echaic to me. But right now I am just seeing perfection in the forum and I will hardly support any major change to the structure of this forum save creation of necessary boards. The layout of this forum is its originality and should not be toyed with.
If what Op suggested I implemented, I do not know the possibility of multiple quoting and that will hinder the free flow of conversation in this forum. This is a forum Op.

UX improvement will probably bring new UI elements and design changes, I usually don't write UI and UX together and I believe these words are often abused use only UI but probably you are right.

I'm afraid dramatic changes are necessary for better future of this forum. To be honest, I think that at the moment signature campaigns are a huge drive of this forum but this is not a long-term solution if forum is unable to attract new customers in upcoming years. If there are no new customers and some old people are leaving, then there won't be new campaigns because it won't be financially and statistically beneficial for companies to pay here. And if sig campaigns die, I'm afraid this forum will die too, that's why dramatic change is necessary and theymos has to take this risk if he cares about the forum. I also think that community here is very friendly and educated unlike other forums, so, he may get help from some users.

Yes, layout is outdated and probably being a forum alone the exact way it is right now won't be enough in future.
By the way, it's entirely possible and very easy to make this forum responsive. This forum is made via HTML tables and we need to convert it in CSS Flexbox or CSS Grid. Then we have to convert some images in CSS grid and that's all. I don't know what kind of changes he has to do in SMF CMS but I think it won't be hard.
Here is an example of how would this forum look like if it was responsive: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5414229

I would never vote for something like that because I don't want to see it. If someone can create it for those interested in seeing a social media-lookalike, I don't mind it. But don't push it on everyone else.
Imagine a discussion of 10 or 20 pages where everyone would be posting and quoting someone on different pages and places. People would have to scroll up and down all the time to see if there is anything interesting quoted in a post from the past. No thanks.

This layout is the most logical one. You have the older posts on top and each new one goes below the previous one. You can't make a mistake that way.

It's true that this forum was created in 2009. But do you know a very interesting point?
The way the forum is organized continues to be the same as that used today in forums created in 2023. They can have a different layout, more colors, more curves, a more dynamic look, etc. But structurally it is the same.

Therefore, it is not the structure of Bitcointalk that is outdated. At least we can say it's the layout, the design. Despite this, I have nothing against this design - even though part of my job is making websites. Maybe it could be suitable for mobile devices? Yes, it could... but if we look closely, that is also part of this forum and what makes it different.

I for one would be horrified if it changed visually in any major way. I know I've said it before but one of the most powerful aspects of this forum is the fact that it acts as a repository for posts by important early contributors, like satoshi and Hal. When people come here for this reason, I assume they want to see satoshi's posts as he wrote them -- same font, format, background color & all... Changing the layout of the forum would be a detriment to this experience, so I hope it never changes.

As far as Reddit is concerned, interestingly bitcointalk gets 1.1% of its traffic from Reddit. It appears more people are coming from there to here than here to there.

Yes it is designed to make you obsolete and be replaced be someone younger.

If you are over 40 always encourage retro ideas to fight back against the youngins.

At the age of 66 and having had 49 years working with computers I have seen tons of false obsolete moves made.  ie reddit is a false improvement.  young people look at it and are conned that bitcointalks format is obsolete.

you know reddit is like a pcie based ssd and bitcointalk is older like a floppy disk.

while it is true that a pcie based ssd kicks the ass of a floppy disk 1000x or more.

reddit does not kick the ass of bitcointalk.

but too many are fooled into thinking that.

It just needs UX improvements, not necessarily UI. And it should be achieved through the mythical EpochTalk (that's pretty much a dead project now I think lmao).


In a business sense, that's going to be next to impossible unless Theymos' takes a huge risk through making a huge change on Bitcointalk — which I doubt he would do.

This forum could definitely use some new features (first thing that comes to my mind is making it more mobile friendly), but features like having the comment layout to be more reddit like is completely different thing as it would make it harder to have a quality discussion which is the main feature of Internet forums and the reason why people still use them.

After all, I don't see what we would get if all these platforms look similar with similar features.

This website probably needs UI improvement but you are right, there are some users because of this old layout. But does that mean that website shouldn't improve and shouldn't attract new people?

I don't understand what is your point, should we always leave things the way they were from the very beginning? Or should we develop? I understand that it's hard for old people to adapt new things but you know, life continues, new generation is born, the world sets towards them because they are the future. Don't get my words wrong but that's natural to, as you would say, hurt older for newer's benefits.
If this forum wants to remain popular and attract new members, it should adapt to new things and change over time, it's not 2009 anymore and before anyone tells me to move on Reddit or Twitter, analyze what I said, I'm not enemy here.

I won't say I hate it, as I haven't attended it long enough to create that kind of feeling.  

But, in the research I do and end up on Reddit, I'm simply there for only 2 or 3 minutes (or a few seconds). I can't understand the conversations being had, because the answers to one answer are after the answer to any other answer. And in the middle there are still questions about something else. Just get lost.

My dear Bitcointalk forum!

I certainly wouldn't want it to be the default view, but if there was something in account settings that you could edit to change how comments are displayed for your own preferences, then I don't see an issue with it.  Am I right in thinking that type of layout is called "nested" replies?  Can't say I'm a fan of it, but each to their own.

I have a smart phone due to its compact and portable nature — so I can use it when on-the-go especially in public places. Having a tablet(or flip phone, because having to flip it open when on-the-go is a hassle imo) defeats this purpose.

At home, I exclusively use my computer.

As for tablets, I only use mine for design work.

Yes, well, I don't find it very uncomfortable to read from a mobile phone, with the limitations of space, obviously, as it will always be more comfortable to read from a larger screen.

Replying on the forum with my mobile is something I hardly ever do, and even less so when quoting several previous comments.

But as I said before, I wouldn't change anything.


Well, I have a tablet but I often don't take it with me. And I don't have a flip phone at the moment, but it will come.

you should have a tablet for mobile and a flip phone.

smart phones suck
the screens are simply too small.

I have no complaints on Bitcointalk's UI/UX as well — when I'm on my computer, that is. It's perfect and I really really love it when I'm on my computer but it's the total utter opposite when I'm on my phone. Quote tweeting multiple people are just the worst UX ever.

I like old, simple things more than modern and fancy and i like this forum in the way it is. you are talking about this type of changes because you may surf other forums or social media more than bitcointalk.
maybe i like this forum because i made first forum account in my life which is this one. if i were previously on reddit then i like to visit reddit more then bitcointalk.

The forum's current layout is the best one for us and no other social media platform can match its simplistic design. I don't think that anyone would like this amazing forum to look anything like those social media platforms. I don't really spend much time on social media platforms because I spend most of my time on this forum and it's layout is really amazing for me.

I love to spend time on this forum because of its simplistic design and I give a lot of time to it because it's addictive for me. The social media platforms are useless and anyone who wants to destroy their time should spend it on social media.

Just wondering how much of an upgrade simple machines offers, as I thought everything needs to be kept simple...incase this swings in favor of a new look,do we have other forums that have managed to fork SMF that can be used as a reference point and maybe put this up for a vote to get BCT a face-lift.
But then again I honestly don't see a reason to get the the forum a new sleeve as as the current one is fully functional, besides we have 2FA in the pipeline which we are yet to try around..but overall not a bad idea to give SMF a modern look.

They don't understand the purpose of reddit's "new"  format.

He or she the op that is, should watch this movie

"Wild in the streets."

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063808/

I saw it in the movies with my dad I was 11 at the time.

Here I am at 66 and still see the same techniques to hurt the older for the newer's benefit.

reddit simply is a variation of that movie. as is all the 'new formats' are on the net.

I totally, agree, plus it kind a feels cool to type messages here. Like if one is making posts or messages here on BTT and using this same layout to make some posts, And if one is making them in public like among friends. Then they also become curious. As I have seen many situations like these. Where friend got curious whenever I tried to make a post or message in class. Those who sat near me, started to ask questions related to this and I have only one thing to say, this is a discussion form where you can learn and learn about and through BTC respectively.

I really like this layout and I hope this will never be changed. As, it is very cool and now become a little handy too.

There is no need for this, the layout makes the forum remain unique.

Whenever you are on the forum, you can see that it is a serious place from the layout, a place to learn from, not some social media platform where their layout has been made to look attractive to make people want to remain.

If you are truly in the forum to learn, the layout will be the least of your concerns.

No we should not.  in fact you should go on reddit and ask them to switch their format to bitcointalk.

You are simply programmed wrong and don't even understand why it was done to you.

Please for your home work go complain on reddit.

Twitter is good for a quick exchange of informations and I use it on the daily basis as that's where crypto news usually show up first, but its totally unsuitable for any type of serious conversation and it shoulnd't really be used for that.


Yesah same here. Not because of comment layout though but instead how easy is to get banned there.

Spend less time on those social media platforms and more on Bitcointalk and you'll get used to the features here and prefer them to those of the social media platforms you're speaking about. I love the forum layout especially the comment section. The layout makes it easier to track comments based on which one came first and makes it easy to understand where the conversation is heading. I don't like collapsible drop down layout, it looks untidy to me and obstruct the flow of reading. The forum layout looks clean and simple to understand. We have the quoting function that can be used to reply others comments and they're clickable (redirecting you to the quoted message) so I don't understand why there's a problem here.

We're getting too used to the new look of social media but we're forgetting that they're arrangements those platforms in the best way it'll be easier for them to get their advertisements to a broader audience. I like the fact the forum is different from the rest of the social platforms and it gives me another type of feeling when I'm here which I prefer to other social platforms. This layout makes it easier to read and follow up conversations on the thread.

Heaven help us all if Theymos changes the forum format to anything akin to Reddit.  I know nothing about how Twitter is laid out, but I've seen screenshots of tweets and the whole thing looks retarded with a very big capital "R".  Should that ever come about, I think I would flee to my fantasy sig campaign castle and live there behind locked doors for eternity.

Yeah, I hate Reddit with a passion.

That's anyone's guess.  Sometimes you think he's ignored all suggestions and then suddenly one of them has been implemented.  It's a crapshoot with him--but I'd bet the house he's not going to lift a finger to act on this one.

God please no (not that theymos will seriously consider this, but still..).

Just let us oldtimers enjoy this last remnants of what discussion on Internet looked like before all that social media/chat type of platforms took over. And as others pointed out, you have reddit if you prefer that kind of style.

OP you should understand that all platforms have different ways of doing things and the Layout from twitter and other social media platforms which you prefer must not be applicable to all platforms so you don’t have the right to condemn the ways of this forum. We are okay with it and we are already used to it so making changes will not change anything.

It’s even better this way because early replies are the most relevant and other replies are mostly spam. Also reading a post and early responses makes it easier to understand the topic better.

This feature makes things easy and instead of regularly going through the whole forum and boards to access new posts you will have all unread posts and threads from different boards lined up for you. I sometimes make use of this feature.

I have not come across this feature of placing a board on ignore, rather i simply place notifications on the topics and boards that interests me so i get notified of new posts on a particular board.

Oh... I just remembered that the topics that appear ignored are because the person who created them is on the ignore list, not the topic itself. But maybe it is possible somehow to implement a patch in SMF that places a button next to each topic on the far right that you can click on to toggle ignore/unignore status (@PowerGlove?) and combine that with the list of ignored users to get the final set.

How? I don't think that's possible (but I'd like to have this feature).

Such an algorithm already exists her, it's called "Show unread posts since last visit".

A quick and dirty way for a user to put this into action is to place all the topics they don't like on ignore, and all the boards they are not interested in reading on ignore as well (which will automatically ignore all topics in that board), and then that feed will be full of topics you actually want to read.

It sounds a lot like OP wants an algorithm to decide what he gets to read. That's great for maximizing advertising revenue on social media, it's terrible for the content itself.

SMF patches to ignore users but they only satisfy part of OP demands.

Skipping to the next/previous post within a topic by the same author (SMF patch)

Member filtering widget.

I don't think what you are looking for is available in the latest version of SMF ---> https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF/milestones

since we are talking about changes in the front-end, I think it is possible to create a UserScript to display the quoted responses under each other, but still with the same current theme, but with the same effect as what happens in Reddit.

Although I like how threads are displayed on Twitter and/or Reddit, discussions can be followed here.

This will be hectic to implement here on bitcointalk. In discussions there are always multiple side conversations where one user can quote 2 or more users at a particular time, and a collapsible dropdown button will fail to capture the entire thread of discussion.

The current layout is also not terrible, it's just a matter ofbwhat you frequent. I am mostly on the forum, so when I visit Reddit which is sparingly I struggle to go with the flow of discussions there and end up not going further than the first lump of replies, same happens on Twitter to (except it's a really interesting conversation).

We definitely don't need more social media like elements.

I don't see it as awful at all but maybe it's because I don't comment on Twitter or Reddit.


I agree.


You can never know what's going through his mind, but I'd bet he's not even thinking about making such a change.

You're pretty much describing Twitter and/or Reddit. If you prefer that layout, you can simply move to there. This old-style forum layout is one of the reasons why a lot of people are here so it'd be counter-intuitive to change it.

(Assuming Theymos is planning on changing anything in the first place lol.)

Honestly can we make a push to bundle comments directed towards a certain side convo between users within a certain topic to stack directly underneath with a collapsible drop down that doesn't move the comments all the way to the last page? I feel like this system is due for an upgrade and could use some more social media like elements. ...



Update:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-comment-layout-here-is-actually-pretty-unique-and-should-be-preserved-5466990