Topic: The Everything Bubble (Read 2266 times)

Quote from: radamiel on June 06, 2017, 08:56:15 AM

The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

It sounds stupid but everything can't be overpriced because if everything is overpriced then nothing is. Overpriced means that the price of something is higher than its actual value, and this is the defining characteristic of bubbles. However, really ultimately the "value" of anything comes down to how much people are willing to pay for it. It gets almost philosophical, or at least theoretical. All calculations of value are relative, and ultimately boil down to how much people are willing to pay for something

I basically agree that the notion of overpriced loses its relevance if everything is overpriced. But as you yourself say, it all comes down or amounts to how much people are willing to pay for something, so there cannot be a reason the very existence of such notion in the first place. But since it, nevertheless, exists there should necessarily be a reason for its existence, right? As to me, overpriced relates to prices above the ones which would be there it the buying (selling) decisions were made via rational reasoning given the available info

That is, without being affected by market sentiment, hype, or hysteria

Yeah but what is a rational price for, for example, a bank stock? If they are all pretty close to having a price/sales ratio of 2 then would that be over or under priced? What if they were all 3, or 4? We can use fundamental data about an asset to determine its value, but only to the extent of determining value compared to other similar assets. Ultimately it all comes down to how much people are willing to pay. What makes one p/s ratio more rational than another?

There can be quite a few factors at play

They may not be easily quantifiable but this doesn't in the least mean that they are not real or inconsequential. For example, if a company has been there for ages (like IBM) and has been showing consistent profits year after year, we could well expect its PS ratio or any such metric higher than an average value across the markets. In this way, a company with a higher PS can be considered as undervalued while another company with a lower PS as overvalued. Indeed, in real life it all comes down to how much people are willing to pay, but people are not rational on the whole and susceptible to hype and unfounded optimism as well as pessimism. That's why there is some substance behind such claims (i.e. something being undervalued or overvalued)

What you are saying in your IBM example is true, but once again it is relative. You are saying it is over or under valued compared to the market. But what should the average value of the market be? This is where it just comes down to how much people are willing to pay. You can say an asset is overvalued compared to other similar ones, but ultimately the calculation of value is based on how much people are willing to pay, just indirectly

In fact, I expected that you would come up with something like that

But I specifically didn't address that point beforehand, to let you speak it out loud. Basically, these ratios (PS, PE, PC, etc) mean the same thing, i.e. how long it will take to break even with investments in a company stock if the company earnings remain the same over years. And break even times are an objective measure, more or less (since the mean life span of people is known, and it remains in a pretty narrow range, i.e. 75-80 years). Obviously, if a company is rock-solid through decades, it is expected that it will remain stable and profitable in the future, and therefore people could wait longer till they break even (in essence, by investing in such stocks they are just insuring their future). If people are paying more than is reasonable given these terms, it means that the stock is overvalued and overpriced (read hyped up) and vice versa. In other words, what people are willing to pay is nowhere near being an objective measure, thus the notion of overpriced

epitome

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As long as the fundamentals are strong, the bubble will not be a problem, many countries with rapid economic growth, the state will realize if there is a problem and will make the right regulation, intelligent countries can certainly take the wisdom of the bubble crisis in some countries, Such as US

Are you implying that countries like US are intelligent enough to avoid these sort of economic blunders and if that is what you are trying to tell ,i should ask one thing,what caused the global meltdown ,if you are not aware of it,it caused the entire world in a bubble like the great depression because of the fundamental economic blunders made by the US ,so when it comes to the alt coin market you really cannot predict exactly what is going to happen when everyone moves their assets to fiat ,if that happens there will be a collapse,other than that i do not see that happening.

ktabb

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Quote from: deisik on June 06, 2017, 10:03:36 AM

Quote from: ktabb on June 06, 2017, 05:37:15 AM

Quote from: ktabb on June 06, 2017, 05:37:15 AM

The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

It sounds stupid but everything can't be overpriced because if everything is overpriced then nothing is. Overpriced means that the price of something is higher than its actual value, and this is the defining characteristic of bubbles. However, really ultimately the "value" of anything comes down to how much people are willing to pay for it. It gets almost philosophical, or at least theoretical. All calculations of value are relative, and ultimately boil down to how much people are willing to pay for something

I basically agree that the notion of overpriced loses its relevance if everything is overpriced. But as you yourself say, it all comes down or amounts to how much people are willing to pay for something, so there cannot be a reason the very existence of such notion in the first place. But since it, nevertheless, exists there should necessarily be a reason for its existence, right? As to me, overpriced relates to prices above the ones which would be there it the buying (selling) decisions were made via rational reasoning given the available info

That is, without being affected by market sentiment, hype, or hysteria

Yeah but what is a rational price for, for example, a bank stock? If they are all pretty close to having a price/sales ratio of 2 then would that be over or under priced? What if they were all 3, or 4? We can use fundamental data about an asset to determine its value, but only to the extent of determining value compared to other similar assets. Ultimately it all comes down to how much people are willing to pay. What makes one p/s ratio more rational than another?

There can be quite a few factors at play

They may not be easily quantifiable but this doesn't in the least mean that they are not real or inconsequential. For example, if a company has been there for ages (like IBM) and has been showing consistent profits year after year, we could well expect its PS ratio or any such metric higher than an average value across the markets. In this way, a company with a higher PS can be considered as undervalued while another company with a lower PS as overvalued. Indeed, in real life it all comes down to how much people are willing to pay, but people are not rational on the whole and susceptible to hype and unfounded optimism as well as pessimism. That's why there is some substance behind such claims (i.e. something being undervalued or overvalued)

What you are saying in your IBM example is true, but once again it is relative. You are saying it is over or under valued compared to the market. But what should the average value of the market be? This is where it just comes down to how much people are willing to pay. You can say an asset is overvalued compared to other similar ones, but ultimately the calculation of value is based on how much people are willing to pay, just indirectly. It is directly based on an asset's fundamentals compared to similar assets, but ultimately there is no solid quantifiable data to say that asset A should be worth x dollars without just comparing it to other assets whose value is determined the same way.

deisik

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Quote from: Creepings on June 01, 2017, 10:11:00 PM

The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

It sounds stupid but everything can't be overpriced because if everything is overpriced then nothing is. Overpriced means that the price of something is higher than its actual value, and this is the defining characteristic of bubbles. However, really ultimately the "value" of anything comes down to how much people are willing to pay for it. It gets almost philosophical, or at least theoretical. All calculations of value are relative, and ultimately boil down to how much people are willing to pay for something

I basically agree that the notion of overpriced loses its relevance if everything is overpriced. But as you yourself say, it all comes down or amounts to how much people are willing to pay for something, so there cannot be a reason the very existence of such notion in the first place. But since it, nevertheless, exists there should necessarily be a reason for its existence, right? As to me, overpriced relates to prices above the ones which would be there it the buying (selling) decisions were made via rational reasoning given the available info

That is, without being affected by market sentiment, hype, or hysteria

Yeah but what is a rational price for, for example, a bank stock? If they are all pretty close to having a price/sales ratio of 2 then would that be over or under priced? What if they were all 3, or 4? We can use fundamental data about an asset to determine its value, but only to the extent of determining value compared to other similar assets. Ultimately it all comes down to how much people are willing to pay. What makes one p/s ratio more rational than another?

There can be quite a few factors at play

They may not be easily quantifiable but this doesn't in the least mean that they are not real or inconsequential. For example, if a company has been there for ages (like IBM) and has been showing consistent profits year after year, we could well expect its PS ratio or any such metric higher than an average value across the markets. In this way, a company with a higher PS can be considered as undervalued while another company with a lower PS as overvalued. Indeed, in real life it all comes down to how much people are willing to pay, but people are not rational on the whole and susceptible to hype and unfounded optimism as well as pessimism. That's why there is some substance behind such claims (i.e. something being undervalued or overvalued)

BitcoinzB

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The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

I think it is not overpriced, it's just a good stuffs making a increase in price, because that is how the businesses works. I think sometimes the price of something rise up or pump because of the demand and they need it that time that is why the price also increase, then after that time, the demand goes down, the same as the price.

You're right - price and demand are linked, but there's many other factors involved into making the value of a good. Although, as long as the demand rises and the offer stays the same, price will inevitably go up

radamiel

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As long as the fundamentals are strong, the bubble will not be a problem, many countries with rapid economic growth, the state will realize if there is a problem and will make the right regulation, intelligent countries can certainly take the wisdom of the bubble crisis in some countries, Such as US

ktabb

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The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

It sounds stupid but everything can't be overpriced because if everything is overpriced then nothing is. Overpriced means that the price of something is higher than its actual value, and this is the defining characteristic of bubbles. However, really ultimately the "value" of anything comes down to how much people are willing to pay for it. It gets almost philosophical, or at least theoretical. All calculations of value are relative, and ultimately boil down to how much people are willing to pay for something

I basically agree that the notion of overpriced loses its relevance if everything is overpriced. But as you yourself say, it all comes down or amounts to how much people are willing to pay for something, so there cannot be a reason the very existence of such notion in the first place. But since it, nevertheless, exists there should necessarily be a reason for its existence, right? As to me, overpriced relates to prices above the ones which would be there it the buying (selling) decisions were made via rational reasoning given the available info

That is, without being affected by market sentiment, hype, or hysteria

Yeah but what is a rational price for, for example, a bank stock? If they are all pretty close to having a price/sales ratio of 2 then would that be over or under priced? What if they were all 3, or 4? We can use fundamental data about an asset to determine its value, but only to the extent of determining value compared to other similar assets. Ultimately it all comes down to how much people are willing to pay. What makes one p/s ratio more rational than another?

ridery99

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Very interesting:

The World’s $100 Trillion Question: Why Is Inflation So Low?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-05/so-much-for-xiflation-china-slowdown-derails-inflation-calls

Quote

Central bankers and investors are grappling with a $100 trillion question: why consumer price inflation remains so low in most parts of the world even as economic growth quickens.

Compounding the riddle, question marks are now emerging over the one part of the global inflation picture that had been moving higher -- producer prices. That’s because two engines of that turnaround -- China’s resurgent factories and prospects for tax-cut fueled stimulus under President Donald Trump -- are showing signs of fading.

Which way the inflation mystery unravels is crucial for the global monetary policy outlook and the world’s $100 trillion bond market. And as with any puzzle, there are rival camps out there in the eco-sphere, with Michael Shaoul, chief executive officer at Marketfield Asset Management in New York, among the PPI-reflation believers.

“This remains an obviously reflationary period for the global economy, with the broadest rise in input cost seen since the global V-shaped recovery hit the skids in 2011,” Shaoul wrote in a recent email. He charts producer prices in China, the U.S., Germany and South Korea -- which make up more than 50 percent of traded goods -- to show the trend.

deisik

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The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

It sounds stupid but everything can't be overpriced because if everything is overpriced then nothing is. Overpriced means that the price of something is higher than its actual value, and this is the defining characteristic of bubbles. However, really ultimately the "value" of anything comes down to how much people are willing to pay for it. It gets almost philosophical, or at least theoretical. All calculations of value are relative, and ultimately boil down to how much people are willing to pay for something

I basically agree that the notion of overpriced loses its relevance if everything is overpriced. But as you yourself say, it all comes down or amounts to how much people are willing to pay for something, so there cannot be a reason the very existence of such notion in the first place. But since it, nevertheless, exists there should necessarily be a reason for its existence, right? As to me, overpriced relates to prices above the ones which would be there it the buying (selling) decisions were made via rational reasoning given the available info

That is, without being affected by market sentiment, hype, or hysteria

Creepings

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The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

I think it is not overpriced, it's just a good stuffs making a increase in price, because that is how the businesses works. I think sometimes the price of something rise up or pump because of the demand and they need it that time that is why the price also increase, then after that time, the demand goes down, the same as the price.

ktabb

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Quote from: webtricks on June 01, 2017, 08:43:16 AM

The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

It sounds stupid but everything can't be overpriced because if everything is overpriced then nothing is. Overpriced means that the price of something is higher than its actual value, and this is the defining characteristic of bubbles. However, really ultimately the "value" of anything comes down to how much people are willing to pay for it. It gets almost philosophical, or at least theoretical. All calculations of value are relative, and ultimately boil down to how much people are willing to pay for something. You can say that company A is overpriced at a p/s ratio of 6 because other similar companies have a p/s ratio of 5, but who is to say that 5 or 6 is the proper "value"? Which p/s ratio is "correct"? If a year later those companies all have a p/s ratio of 7, then none of them can really be said to be overpriced because they are all in line with each other, even though a p/s ratio of 7 would have been overpriced the previous year.

If everything is overpriced, nothing is - as long as everything is equally overpriced.

ethereumhunter

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Not everything is bubble, indeed!
Not everytime inflated balloon burst, sometimes it just inflated or deflated. Suppose the price of commodity rose by 20-30% in a day due to sudden surge in demand and fell by 10-20% the next very day due to correction. Does that mean price of that could not cross the highest again and burst? Exactly not, commodity can rise again if there is potential to rise again in future.

yes i am agree that not all news is bubble, some of them is right and needs our attention to followed. but the rest if we think that the news or something is not right, then we don't have to following. its our job to determine what is real and what is not and we need to make filter for our self so we don't eat the news right away.

webtricks

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Not everything is bubble, indeed!
Not everytime inflated balloon burst, sometimes it just inflated or deflated. Suppose the price of commodity rose by 20-30% in a day due to sudden surge in demand and fell by 10-20% the next very day due to correction. Does that mean price of that could not cross the highest again and burst? Exactly not, commodity can rise again if there is potential to rise again in future.

IIOII

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When looking at historic valuations it's definitely correct that stocks, bonds and real estate are all significantly overpriced. The direct cause for these bubbles are the monetary policies of the central banks, which collectively engage in excessive fiat creation.

The biggest bubble is in the bond market for sure. Of the traditional assets only precious metals and some other commodities hold an attractive valuation.

Quote from: potatopower on June 01, 2017, 07:20:01 AM

the ripple is going to grow really huge in the near future. To be honest the fact that banks are going to invest in ripple is going to grow the price up easily. Plus there will be a coin lock up which will make the price pump a lot as well. I think the only question is when it is going to reach one dollar per ripple price, but I can almost assure that sooner or later it is going to happen. And everything bubble is good, it means that people can make money.

This is really hilariously funny BS! Cheesy

Ripple is not a decentralized cryptocurrency. It's a corporation coin - just another Paypal. No need for further analysis. But dumb people are free to "invest" in it...

matuson

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This surge in the bitcoin market occurs constantly. I am sure that this is the work of whales which invest big money in speculation. If bitcoin will be the "blood" of the new economy on the Internet bubble will not burst for a long time. Now we are only at the beginning.

potatopower

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Quote from: jacafbiz on May 19, 2017, 12:35:07 AM

Quote from: Searing on May 20, 2017, 04:13:26 AM

Actually there are so many bubbles. Some better projects with really cheap comparing with others. For example monero is a such a nice projects with great expectaions from investors. But the price is so fixed. However for example xrp so much volume and overpriced in a very short time period.

Agreed. XRP put a ton more into their economy then say they are going to lock it up. That created a price crash when they added more and when they said they will lock a lot of it up it created a bigger bubble

Ripple must be very good example in recent times for a bubble. I hope it will get crashed down more quickly.

Did you read any ripple based ETF nor any market giant is going to adopt ripple as one of their payment option, then for what reason it is getting 10x appreciations ? As long as I am looking into their in depth related things, there was no solid events to support it to grow. Yet, it is rising in market, it must be just a bubble and may pop out at any time.

The Ripple story just shows how irrational some people are when it comes to investing (speculating) I think Ripples will take alot of people down but how great it will be I don't know

the ripple is going to grow really huge in the near future. To be honest the fact that banks are going to invest in ripple is going to grow the price up easily. Plus there will be a coin lock up which will make the price pump a lot as well. I think the only question is when it is going to reach one dollar per ripple price, but I can almost assure that sooner or later it is going to happen. And everything bubble is good, it means that people can make money.

race2tb

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It wont crash we will go through a period of stagflation, look it up. Banks can keep this game going forever.

deisik

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will that help crypto? or is all this NEW $$$ flowing into crypto FROM the bubble (like running up your credit card) and thus will

There seems to be a bit of misunderstanding

When a bubble bursts eventually, there is no "all this NEW $$$" flowing into anywhere. How come? Because this money is taken away (or gets stolen if you please), it simply disappears as if it didn't exist at all. It means that people remain basically empty handed, that's what bubbles are essentially about. At first, a bubble sucks in cash like there's no tomorrow and then oops! No tomorrow becomes a new reality for the happy-go-lucky investors

Monnt

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Quote from: Sled on May 31, 2017, 10:38:28 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on May 18, 2017, 10:31:56 PM

The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

I don't think that everything is a bubble because if everything is a bubble then a lot of people are now complaining about it because of being over priced and even bitcoin does not have bubble price because it has a reason and root of cause why it is very expensive now and that is because of the demand and the progress of bitcoin in overall.

Probably every price rise do happen only with pumping because traders alone making those decisions to take some commodity's prices in to new level and which can be termed as bubble. Practically traders will be having some view to speculate how big the prices will go. I am not finding any wrong with that because with their available options/resources, they are doing that.

After the pump, the new investors coming into market to ensure the bubble gets realization.

Schuyler

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Quote from: odolvlobo on May 17, 2017, 03:17:58 PM

Quote from: ProzCoin on May 17, 2017, 11:16:56 AM

Well bubble were caused by the huge whales who are buying a large amount of stocks or commodities.

Just look at the housing bubble. That was caused by millions of ordinary people buying houses that they ultimately could not afford.

A bubble is caused by speculative buying by many small investors. It may be triggered by whales making large buys, but it isn't a bubble until it becomes mainstream.

We are not there yet, but it will be time to exit when you see waves of newbies talking about how much their bitcoin investments are worth.

I would agree with this. True, whales may collude to pump up a commodity but it would take a number of small participants to really push it up. The initial boost makes it attractive to newer players.

This is actually making me nervous. I started around December last year, and just held on to my btc despite the mini-plunges. I waited long enough to trade, actually wouldn't have if I was not egged. "Oh come on, how will you get more btc without buying with your fiat?".

I did my first trade last night - I bought XRP. Undecided

Now I'm wondering if that is just money down the drain...

Quite agree. If you really come to think of it, every mainstream investment is suffering from a bubble, and sometimes or in most cases, those who are late to the party and the ones who get to witness the bursting of it, all when the first to arrive have long exited their positions.

dunfida

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Yes, everything is a bubble and soon, the price of everything will drop. Price of crypto can not be as higher as they are right now. Whales are just here to take money from all the people

Cryptocurrency wouldn't affect too much to popped out those bubbles in local fiat financial system which I can really say that is too much overpriced but telling or saying that they will crash,its possible but no on these days and would really takes time as long people already got used to it and continue to use then it would still remain as a bubble and we cant do anything about it.

farharhadi

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So many good projects but there are some that bubble up as a very cheap comparison with others. Investors who will give good hope to a project.

Sled

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Quote from: n0ne on May 18, 2017, 10:41:12 PM

The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

I don't think that everything is a bubble because if everything is a bubble then a lot of people are now complaining about it because of being over priced and even bitcoin does not have bubble price because it has a reason and root of cause why it is very expensive now and that is because of the demand and the progress of bitcoin in overall.

GreenBits

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Quote from: deisik on May 18, 2017, 05:00:42 AM

Quote from: wuvdoll on May 18, 2017, 03:33:52 AM

I am not ready to agree that everything is being pumped to be a bubble. A bubble could be identified and classified when its market is not backing up with enough volume. When there are many/enough people to contribute to continue an up surge, I believe that scenario should not be termed as bubble

This is an impossible case and claim

I mean if we took that assumption as legit and valid, bubbles would not be possible at all. There should always be enough people ready to pour their money until the bubble finally pops. If it were not so, you wouldn't be able to create bubbles in the first place. Otherwise, how could you make a bubble? The only way to do that is via injecting massive amounts of money into something (e.g. real estate, dot-coms, stocks, or whatever). Therefore, the very definition of bubble assumes hefty amounts of money required to inflate it

Agreed, bubbles gets popped when the inflow increases. This too can be caused by the large volume bitcoin holders to make the price grow. Recently the bubbles were due to the ongoing adoption around the world countries, major part is because of the Japan's huge investment into bitcoin. Bubbles too have valid reason, without which bubbles are fake pumps.

But that's an inherent problem with bitcoin, valuation. This is information that we have attached this high price to, and that price is completely borne on speculation/hype. This market has the highest percentage of capitalized, uneducated investors; it shows with the volatility. The price of bitcoin is essentially what we want it to be (its not derived from production price). So, hard to call a bubble.unless.you use percent increase as a metric; price points are meaningless.

Bubble are real pumps for fake/illegitimate reasons. Japan's interest is valid, but not sustainable. And when we reach the end of that sustainability..

POP! Wink

Weatherby

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There might be a truth in some of the facts mentioned because the real estate bubble was really huge in the past and the people who are holding black money had the biggest advantage during that time as they could convert those into real estate investments and that is when the bubble starts and these sort of things will pop in the future,we need to have some fundamentals when the increase in price if not it will pop.

ridery99

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Marc Faber—aka Dr. Doom—warns that in financial markets ‘there is a bubble in everything’

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/marc-faberaka-dr-doomwarns-that-in-financial-markets-there-is-a-bubble-in-everything-2017-05-31

Searing

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Clueless!

The question is IF the bubble gets big and goes boom and takes out financials/recession/etc in the traditional capitalist world

will that help crypto? or is all this NEW $$$ flowing into crypto FROM the bubble (like running up your credit card) and thus will

dry up investment into crypto ..and we also go down with the ship (although likely not as much)

just asking...not a slam on crypto/or bubbles

Przemax

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It is impossible not to have bubbles in the current world. Firstly there is no mechanism in the market that punishes wrong financial decision for the big investment banks. Secondly, its the human nature that we value the things that are priced high, as well as those that are trendy right now.

Thirdly the economy needs the bubbles because of the interest rates. There have to be either extreme growth to rationalise the usury, or people have to be broke to have to work for pennies, for their employers to be able to pay the usury fees to the banks. If bubbles are making one group of people broke and others increase the GPD, its a saving grace for the economy. Not exactly saving grace, just kicking the ball out, but nevertheless from a banking perspective it might be viewed as so.

deisik

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Quote from: iluvpie60 on May 19, 2017, 08:58:30 AM

There are soo many bubbles going on that never really pop, more like they deflate. I think btc will have a price correction. It will probably go down in price in a few weeks. Almost no news has driven this increase. Speculation fueled by a pump n dump coming. Be ready!!

That's the same what people had been saying late fall-early winter of 2016

When Bitcoin had just started its rise which we are still watching to push ahead today. This rise was driven by a reward halving (many seem to have forgotten about it already) that happened almost a year ago. It required some time to develop and show up eventually but that was basically "written in stone". The same with Japan equaling Bitcoin to other currencies (and still more so with other countries which are going to follow Japan's lead). The genuine effects of these events will also take some time to manifest themselves. So I wouldn't be very optimistic about the dump just around the corner. Get ready for more!

iluvpie60

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There are soo many bubbles going on that never really pop, more like they deflate. I think btc will have a price correction. It will probably go down in price in a few weeks. Almost no news has driven this increase. Speculation fueled by a pump n dump coming. Be ready!!

mobilezz

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Quote from: jacafbiz on May 19, 2017, 12:35:07 AM

Quote from: jacafbiz on May 19, 2017, 12:35:07 AM

Actually there are so many bubbles. Some better projects with really cheap comparing with others. For example monero is a such a nice projects with great expectaions from investors. But the price is so fixed. However for example xrp so much volume and overpriced in a very short time period.

Agreed. XRP put a ton more into their economy then say they are going to lock it up. That created a price crash when they added more and when they said they will lock a lot of it up it created a bigger bubble

Ripple must be very good example in recent times for a bubble. I hope it will get crashed down more quickly.

Did you read any ripple based ETF nor any market giant is going to adopt ripple as one of their payment option, then for what reason it is getting 10x appreciations ? As long as I am looking into their in depth related things, there was no solid events to support it to grow. Yet, it is rising in market, it must be just a bubble and may pop out at any time.

The Ripple story just shows how irrational some people are when it comes to investing (speculating) I think Ripples will take alot of people down but how great it will be I don't know

But someone has managed to earn money on Ripple. And for many it will be a loss-making investment. It is difficult to guess and predict something. Even experience does not help. A lot of new "crypto"

deisik

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Actually there are so many bubbles. Some better projects with really cheap comparing with others. For example monero is a such a nice projects with great expectaions from investors. But the price is so fixed. However for example xrp so much volume and overpriced in a very short time period.

Agreed. XRP put a ton more into their economy then say they are going to lock it up. That created a price crash when they added more and when they said they will lock a lot of it up it created a bigger bubble

Ripple must be very good example in recent times for a bubble. I hope it will get crashed down more quickly.

Did you read any ripple based ETF nor any market giant is going to adopt ripple as one of their payment option, then for what reason it is getting 10x appreciations ? As long as I am looking into their in depth related things, there was no solid events to support it to grow. Yet, it is rising in market, it must be just a bubble and may pop out at any time.

The Ripple story just shows how irrational some people are when it comes to investing (speculating) I think Ripples will take alot of people down but how great it will be I don't know

I wholeheartedly support this view

It becomes even more evident when people start seriously mentioning the Ripple market cap as being the second after Bitcoin (around 15B dollars in total) without ever thinking that is a completely irrelevant metric. And not just irrelevant (as it is per se) but in fact detrimental and harmful since such people look at these whopping numbers and come to think that Ripple somehow is certainly worth the shit

jacafbiz

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PredX - AI-Powered Prediction Market

Actually there are so many bubbles. Some better projects with really cheap comparing with others. For example monero is a such a nice projects with great expectaions from investors. But the price is so fixed. However for example xrp so much volume and overpriced in a very short time period.

Agreed. XRP put a ton more into their economy then say they are going to lock it up. That created a price crash when they added more and when they said they will lock a lot of it up it created a bigger bubble

Ripple must be very good example in recent times for a bubble. I hope it will get crashed down more quickly.

Did you read any ripple based ETF nor any market giant is going to adopt ripple as one of their payment option, then for what reason it is getting 10x appreciations ? As long as I am looking into their in depth related things, there was no solid events to support it to grow. Yet, it is rising in market, it must be just a bubble and may pop out at any time.

The Ripple story just shows how irrational some people are when it comes to investing (speculating) I think Ripples will take alot of people down but how great it will be I don't know

sana54210

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Quote from: deisik on May 18, 2017, 05:00:42 AM

Actually there are so many bubbles. Some better projects with really cheap comparing with others. For example monero is a such a nice projects with great expectaions from investors. But the price is so fixed. However for example xrp so much volume and overpriced in a very short time period.

Agreed. XRP put a ton more into their economy then say they are going to lock it up. That created a price crash when they added more and when they said they will lock a lot of it up it created a bigger bubble

Ripple must be very good example in recent times for a bubble. I hope it will get crashed down more quickly.

Did you read any ripple based ETF nor any market giant is going to adopt ripple as one of their payment option, then for what reason it is getting 10x appreciations ? As long as I am looking into their in depth related things, there was no solid events to support it to grow. Yet, it is rising in market, it must be just a bubble and may pop out at any time.

n0ne

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Quote from: wuvdoll on May 18, 2017, 03:33:52 AM

I am not ready to agree that everything is being pumped to be a bubble. A bubble could be identified and classified when its market is not backing up with enough volume. When there are many/enough people to contribute to continue an up surge, I believe that scenario should not be termed as bubble

This is an impossible case and claim

I mean if we took that assumption as legit and valid, bubbles would not be possible at all. There should always be enough people ready to pour their money until the bubble finally pops. If it were not so, you wouldn't be able to create bubbles in the first place. Otherwise, how could you make a bubble? The only way to do that is via injecting massive amounts of money into something (e.g. real estate, dot-coms, stocks, or whatever). Therefore, the very definition of bubble assumes hefty amounts of money required to inflate it

Agreed, bubbles gets popped when the inflow increases. This too can be caused by the large volume bitcoin holders to make the price grow. Recently the bubbles were due to the ongoing adoption around the world countries, major part is because of the Japan's huge investment into bitcoin. Bubbles too have valid reason, without which bubbles are fake pumps.

Mometaskers

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Quote from: odolvlobo on May 17, 2017, 03:17:58 PM

Well bubble were caused by the huge whales who are buying a large amount of stocks or commodities.

Just look at the housing bubble. That was caused by millions of ordinary people buying houses that they ultimately could not afford.

A bubble is caused by speculative buying by many small investors. It may be triggered by whales making large buys, but it isn't a bubble until it becomes mainstream.

We are not there yet, but it will be time to exit when you see waves of newbies talking about how much their bitcoin investments are worth.

I would agree with this. True, whales may collude to pump up a commodity but it would take a number of small participants to really push it up. The initial boost makes it attractive to newer players.

This is actually making me nervous. I started around December last year, and just held on to my btc despite the mini-plunges. I waited long enough to trade, actually wouldn't have if I was not egged. "Oh come on, how will you get more btc without buying with your fiat?".

I did my first trade last night - I bought XRP. Undecided

Now I'm wondering if that is just money down the drain...

iluvpie60

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Quote from: wuvdoll on May 18, 2017, 03:33:52 AM

Actually there are so many bubbles. Some better projects with really cheap comparing with others. For example monero is a such a nice projects with great expectaions from investors. But the price is so fixed. However for example xrp so much volume and overpriced in a very short time period.

Agreed. XRP put a ton more into their economy then say they are going to lock it up. That created a price crash when they added more and when they said they will lock a lot of it up it created a bigger bubble

deisik

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I am not ready to agree that everything is being pumped to be a bubble. A bubble could be identified and classified when its market is not backing up with enough volume. When there are many/enough people to contribute to continue an up surge, I believe that scenario should not be termed as bubble

This is an impossible case and claim

I mean if we took that assumption as legit and valid, bubbles would not be possible at all. There should always be enough people ready to pour their money until the bubble finally pops. If it were not so, you wouldn't be able to create bubbles in the first place. Otherwise, how could you make a bubble? The only way to do that is via injecting massive amounts of money into something (e.g. real estate, dot-coms, stocks, or whatever). Therefore, the very definition of bubble assumes hefty amounts of money required to inflate it

wuvdoll

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I am not ready to agree that everything is being pumped to be a bubble. A bubble could be identified and classified when its market is not backing up with enough volume. When there are many/enough people to contribute to continue an up surge, I believe that scenario should not be termed as bubble.

A bubble will find a crash whereas a valid appreciations may find some corrections. This could be another way of identifying a bubble.

deisik

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Quote from: odolvlobo on May 17, 2017, 03:17:58 PM

Well bubble were caused by the huge whales who are buying a large amount of stocks or commodities.

Just look at the housing bubble. That was caused by millions of ordinary people buying houses that they ultimately could not afford

This is not even about that

If people only bought houses to live in them (i.e. as their homes), that might not have been such a big issue, after all (say, one house per family). But many people had been buying more than enough (so to speak) with borrowed money at that only to sell their property later when the price rose. Obviously, it couldn't but cause a real estate bubble to swell first and then burst it with people being unable to pay out their debts when the price of their "investments" plummeted like a stone

DrGuns4Hands

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Absolutely yes. Everything is a bubble. But we are not in there right now. Will we crash? Probably, yes or not. It depends on the situation. If the banks let it happen? Then be it. Accept it atleast at that point you know you earn something in there. The thing here is be ready to face that speculation.

MingLee

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The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

I dunno what kind of reputation this guy has, but his video on fractional reserve lending was neat to watch and somewhat educational when it came down to it, might recommend it to some of my friends.
As for whether or not everything is overpriced: probably.
There is a new generation in America that is going to have a hard time paying for basically everything that you're mentioning, and a lot of what you have listed will probably have to be inherited by each subsequent generation for there to not be a collapse.

CyberKuro

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The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

Everything in economics circulation which can doubled money will always bubbles, in case stocks or cryptocurrencies mostly will drop after the tide due to people trade these objects. Some may crash obviously, but others will stand such as bitcoin right now has great movement and persist at this level of price because people still believe in this investment, it may decline again as long as 'transaction stuck' problem not resolved.

Yakamoto

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The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

I would say that there is a LOT that is overpriced, stocks are bubbled and RE is also bubbled in a lot of areas, mostly due to people moving and inflating values, as well as new immigrants getting mortgages on things that they aren't necessarily able to afford or are ready to start buying. Happening in a lot of places.

Will we crash? Probably, but it depends on whether or not the banks let it happen in a brutal manner. Chances are they won't and it will be like 2008 again, but it just makes the "reset" crash many times worse the longer it all goes on.

AlBTross

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The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

The stock market is in a bubble and it's about to pop. Today there was a 370 point drop, just the beginning.

Hydrogen

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Stocks, bonds, real estate aren't a bubble.

The underlying issues are wealth/wage inequality and the negative effect it has upon the world economy.

Big taxes, the high cost of healthcare & rent being expensive has a negative economic impact as those liabilities deplete the dollar sum that can be spent on the economy.

Analysts who claim a bubble is coming, aren't really talking about a bubble where things are overpriced.

Its more accurate to say they're acknowledging the spending power of the average person is declining to a point where prices can't be maintained.

odolvlobo

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Well bubble were caused by the huge whales who are buying a large amount of stocks or commodities.

Just look at the housing bubble. That was caused by millions of ordinary people buying houses that they ultimately could not afford.

A bubble is caused by speculative buying by many small investors. It may be triggered by whales making large buys, but it isn't a bubble until it becomes mainstream.

We are not there yet, but it will be time to exit when you see waves of newbies talking about how much their bitcoin investments are worth.

surus

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Never in the history the money (interest) has been so cheap across so many important economies. That makes shifts in the money flows when looking for yield (bonds->stocks->startUps..). It's a reversible process.

cellard

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The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

Mike Maloney is officially supporting bitcoin as a must-have asset in everyone's portfolio. Slowly more and more big investment personalities are going to be recommend bitcoin as a requirement to hedge against the collapsing banking system.

The last step is convincing Peter Schiff of finally joining the bitcoin team, but that guy will die still in denial as BTC reaches 6 figures an gold continues his descent into stagnation.

ProzCoin

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Yes, everything is a bubble and soon, the price of everything will drop. Price of crypto can not be as higher as they are right now. Whales are just here to take money from all the people

deisik

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The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion

I basically agree with Mr. Mike Maloney

Though I don't know him and whether we should trust him. That said, if everything is a bubble, then money is a bubble too, so it is essentially six of one and half a dozen of the other. That means that you should simply stick to the approach preached by Warren Butteff (with whom I also completely agree), who says that it is "far better to buy a wonderful company at a fair price than a fair company at a wonderful price". In this case, it comes down to choosing between bubbles and buying the bubble which is slightly less bubbled than the rest of the bubbles

davis196

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The Everything Bubble: Stocks, Real Estate & Bond Implosion - Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

Is everything overpriced? Are we going to crash soon? When? Discussion.

Yes,everything will continue to be overpriced as long as people continue to use fiat money and the central banks continue to print them.
Are we going to crash?YES,but it won`t be soon.The people still trust the financial system.

Xester

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