The Evolution of the Bitcoin Vending Machine

yndye

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Quote from: Posternut on July 30, 2016, 04:34:08 PM

A Cryptocurrency vending machine has been found at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). Just recently MIT Media Lab’s Ethan Zuckerman tweeted to his followers about the campus’ machine, which accepts bitcoin and is stocked with nothing but Soylent meal replacement drinks.

The Bitcoin-Friendly Vending Machine at MIT Media Lab

Previously, the machine was stocked with unique natural and organic food bars and snacks. Now, it contains nothing but Soylent and also accepts bitcoin. MIT Media Lab’s Ethan Zuckerman posted a photo of the machine on Twitter, which quickly went viral.

https://news.bitcoin.com/evolution-bitcoin-vending-machine/

This is a good innovation of using bitcoin. If there are more people who will be aware that they can pay a vending machine not using an actual coin but a digital one then maybe they will be entice to use it. I hope there are more vending machines that will accept bitcoin as payment and then put it in the streets so that more people will be curious and be aware of the existence of digital coin. This would also minimize loss for the vending machine owners when there are times that the machine accept coins that is of lesser value because of it being the same size,shape and weight with other coins.

Nahl

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i was already know that Japan as the country with the most widely used vending machine for their daily needs even you could buy not only food at there and that was very cool the first vending machine who accept bitcoin but this project not from Japan however i wish this not only A pilot project because those vending machine will facilitate the bitcoin users for buying their needs in the future

franky1

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Quote from: biggus dickus on July 30, 2016, 05:48:50 PM

Quote from: Straux on July 30, 2016, 05:25:36 PM

Quote from: franky1 on July 30, 2016, 05:15:54 PM

Quote from: biggus dickus on July 30, 2016, 05:06:11 PM

I doubt accepting unconfirmed Bitcoin transactions as payment would cost a machine operator much in double spends. It's too much work to attempt a double spend for a bar of chocolate.

double spends are actually easier then you think.
small items are treated as dust. so send a payment with zero fee to the vending machine. and also on a phone send the same inputs to yourself with a fee.. 98% of the time the tx with fee going back to you gets accepted. and the zero fee drops off the mempool unconfirmed.

all it takes is 2 transactions.

to make it easier. if you know the PUSHTX addresses of pools, to API call your tx (with fee to yourself) to the pool direct, and know the ip addresses of the vending machines block explorer to send the zero fee tx. you can time it right to send the zero fee tx to the vending machine. and get ur food and send the other tx (to yourself) to the mining pool to get the better chance of both "businesses"/nodes not seeing the other tx first

it doesnt require any expensive equipment. just good timing

I think that what he's trying to say is that no-one will be bothered to. But in actuality, you could even make a script for double-spending.

That's what I was thinking, but after reading franky1's comment I'm not so sure.

Is there a simple way to minimize the risk of double spends through a machine? Would requiring a minimum fee, or getting the machine to API call any tx to all possible pools direct work?

How does Bitpay manage to accept zero tx payments? Couldn't a machine copy Bitpay's methods?

bitpay does have nodes connected direct to pools to ensure that the tx is "seen first" by pools. this reduces the risks. but there are some other factor bitpay uses too. however simple vending machines offering products of under $2 are not going to be as sophisticated to implement all the stuff bitpay does.

infact there are numerous ways to "attack" a vending machine, which cant be done to something like bitpay

biggus dickus

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Quote from: Straux on July 30, 2016, 05:25:36 PM

Quote from: franky1 on July 30, 2016, 05:15:54 PM

Quote from: biggus dickus on July 30, 2016, 05:06:11 PM

I doubt accepting unconfirmed Bitcoin transactions as payment would cost a machine operator much in double spends. It's too much work to attempt a double spend for a bar of chocolate.

double spends are actually easier then you think.
small items are treated as dust. so send a payment with zero fee to the vending machine. and also on a phone send the same inputs to yourself with a fee.. 98% of the time the tx with fee going back to you gets accepted. and the zero fee drops off the mempool unconfirmed.

all it takes is 2 transactions.

to make it easier. if you know the PUSHTX addresses of pools, to API call your tx (with fee to yourself) to the pool direct, and know the ip addresses of the vending machines block explorer to send the zero fee tx. you can time it right to send the zero fee tx to the vending machine. and get ur food and send the other tx (to yourself) to the mining pool to get the better chance of both "businesses"/nodes not seeing the other tx first

it doesnt require any expensive equipment. just good timing

I think that what he's trying to say is that no-one will be bothered to. But in actuality, you could even make a script for double-spending.

That's what I was thinking, but after reading franky1's comment I'm not so sure.

Is there a simple way to minimize the risk of double spends through a machine? Would requiring a minimum fee, or getting the machine to API call any tx to all possible pools direct work?

How does Bitpay manage to accept zero tx payments? Couldn't a machine copy Bitpay's methods?

Arcteryx

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EtherSphere - Social Games

This is just a starting point remember this fellow members.
Next if this pays for it's time being on that campus, will pave the way for more mainstream vendors to want to have their machines to also accept bitcoins for their products as well.
It is the way product service progression work for a not so known venture that bitcoin poses for large corporations. They are the masters to know if something is a success to fail after all Roll Eyes

.
That is the business that they are in.

Straux

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 30, 2016, 05:14:32 PM

Yes. Our German teacher told us some UK coin, can't remember what it was, was accepted as a Deutschmark in German vending machines which saved my little friends rather a lot of money on school trips.

I knew a guy whose full time living was going around vending machines with an official-looking vest and a nefariously obtained copy of a key and emptying them. It looked like extremely lucrative 'work'.

Probably was. Those things accept up to 2.5k each transaction if I remember correctly. It could do it for multiple people, too.

Quote from: franky1 on July 30, 2016, 05:15:54 PM

Quote from: biggus dickus on July 30, 2016, 05:06:11 PM

I doubt accepting unconfirmed Bitcoin transactions as payment would cost a machine operator much in double spends. It's too much work to attempt a double spend for a bar of chocolate.

double spends are actually easier then you think.
small items are treated as dust. so send a payment with zero fee to the vending machine. and also on a phone send the same inputs to yourself with a fee.. 98% of the time the tx with fee going back to you gets accepted. and the zero fee drops off the mempool unconfirmed.

all it takes is 2 transactions.

to make it easier. if you know the PUSHTX addresses of pools, to API call your tx (with fee to yourself) to the pool direct, and know the ip addresses of the vending machines block explorer to send the zero fee tx. you can time it right to send the zero fee tx to the vending machine. and get ur food and send the other tx (to yourself) to the mining pool to get the better chance of both "businesses"/nodes not seeing the other tx first

it doesnt require any expensive equipment. just good timing

I think that what he's trying to say is that no-one will be bothered to. But in actuality, you could even make a script for double-spending.

Quote from: Snorek on July 30, 2016, 05:25:05 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on July 30, 2016, 04:37:02 PM

I'm more concerned about someone inventing a vending machine that doesn't use those piece of shit curly things to spit your stuff out. I've been denied my refreshment three times in a row when they jammed. Clearly they have failed to address this problem.

Haha. Touching story, but that is beside the point. The main idea is to create working and simple Bitcoin powered vending machine.
That spiral feeder you talk about is industry standard in machines like this. Smart heads need to design easy system to prevent double spending first.

Lightning... Network?

Snorek

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 30, 2016, 04:37:02 PM

I'm more concerned about someone inventing a vending machine that doesn't use those piece of shit curly things to spit your stuff out. I've been denied my refreshment three times in a row when they jammed. Clearly they have failed to address this problem.

Haha. Touching story, but that is beside the point. The main idea is to create working and simple Bitcoin powered vending machine.
That spiral feeder you talk about is industry standard in machines like this. Smart heads need to design easy system to prevent double spending first.

franky1

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Quote from: biggus dickus on July 30, 2016, 05:06:11 PM

I doubt accepting unconfirmed Bitcoin transactions as payment would cost a machine operator much in double spends. It's too much work to attempt a double spend for a bar of chocolate.

double spends are actually easier then you think.
small items are treated as dust. so send a payment with zero fee to the vending machines address. and also on a phone send the same inputs to your own address, but with a fee.. 98% of the time the tx with fee going back to you will get accepted. and the zero tx fee drops off the mempool unconfirmed.

all it takes is 2 transactions.

to make it easier. if you know the PUSHTX addresses of pools, to API call your tx (with fee to yourself) to the pool direct, and know the ip addresses of the vending machines block explorer to send the zero fee tx. you can time it right to send the zero fee tx to the vending machine. and as you hear the machine release the food(seeing tx) send the other tx (to yourself) to the mining pool direct to get the better chance of both "businesses"/nodes not seeing the other tx first

it doesnt require any expensive equipment. just good timing.

on a different note.. im thinking the change over from proper food to the soylent stuff is more to do with not having much "customers", afterall organic foods start to go off quite fast, yet soylent has over a years shelf life.. making it a cheaper product to sell due to less waste items being left unsold

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Yes. Our German teacher told us some UK coin, can't remember what it was, was accepted as a Deutschmark in German vending machines which saved my little friends rather a lot of money on school trips.

I knew a guy whose full time living was going around vending machines with an official-looking vest and a nefariously obtained copy of a key and emptying them. It looked like extremely lucrative 'work'.

biggus dickus

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Bitcoin vending machine owners have less chance of losing money through Bitcoin than if they had a cash vending machine.

People are constantly inventing new ways to trick vending machines by putting fake coins into them. Sometimes vending machines have registered low value foreign coins as high value coins of a different currency. There have even been some machines that accepted washers as real coins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slug_(coin)

Quote

A slug is a counterfeit coin that is used to make illegal purchases from a coin-operated device, such as a vending machine...

By resembling various features of a genuine coin, including the weight, size, and shape, a slug is designed to trick the machine into accepting it like a real coin.

Though slug usage is a violation of the law, prosecution for slug usage is rare due to the low value of the theft and the difficulty in identifying the offender.

There was a way to trick some machines by using a 10 baht coin (worth only €0.25) as a 2 euro coin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vending_machine#Coin_fraud

Quote

The 2 euro coin is similar in size to the 10 baht coin (worth only €0.25). Some vending machines used to accept this coin as 2 euro. They have since been upgraded and will not accept it anymore.

I doubt accepting unconfirmed Bitcoin transactions as payment would cost a machine operator much in double spends. It's too much work to attempt a double spend for a bar of chocolate.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

I'm more concerned about someone inventing a vending machine that doesn't use those piece of shit curly things to spit your stuff out. I've been denied my refreshment three times in a row when they jammed. Clearly they have failed to address this problem.

Posternut

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A Cryptocurrency vending machine has been found at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). Just recently MIT Media Lab’s Ethan Zuckerman tweeted to his followers about the campus’ machine, which accepts bitcoin and is stocked with nothing but Soylent meal replacement drinks.

The Bitcoin-Friendly Vending Machine at MIT Media Lab

Previously, the machine was stocked with unique natural and organic food bars and snacks. Now, it contains nothing but Soylent and also accepts bitcoin. MIT Media Lab’s Ethan Zuckerman posted a photo of the machine on Twitter, which quickly went viral.

https://news.bitcoin.com/evolution-bitcoin-vending-machine/

Topic: The Evolution of the Bitcoin Vending Machine (Read 647 times)