Topic: The Fat Emperor talks to a leading virologist about herd immunity (Read 679 times)

i watched the video and heres my take

my initial reaction at the intro where he introduced a silicon valley guy who's not a immunologist. i thought.. ok this is gonna be full of crap..
BUT
dare i say it
he is 92.5% got it in a knutshell bar a few small inconsistencies

such as the small peptide waste molecules siting at the tip of the receptor. and why
ill explain
these receptors (Y shape at cell surface) are full of the ribbons of proteins in a particular shape that are designed for other particular molecules shape... some cells need oxygen so there is a Y receptor formed to want to grab oxygen molecule.. some need glucose, some need protein
when the cell has enough material inside it and is starting to make excess it excretes the excess out of that receptor and the receptor holds onto to.
its the mechanism of saying im hungry give me apples when the receptor is empty. and not hungry dont feed me when the receptor is full

anyway. lets get to the point

viruses have their own receptors/surfaces which over the millenia of mutations and pure luck found their ribbon pattern(shape) that identifies as an ingrediant a lung cell wants. without being the ingrediant itself
(dressing a bomb timer as a normal clock mechanism for a clock making factory)
once inside the virus multiplying . but then having soo much virus that it just bursts the cell open(trojan horse)

by blocking the lungcell receptor is not really meant to be advertising to the immune system 'peekaboo nasties inside' its instead the virus telling its fellow viruses, 'skip this factory guys im already inside. try the next factory'
however our immune systems t cells use this oppertunity to catch the invader at the factory door
BY CHANCE
..
now lets deal with the T cells
the guy correctly corrected the host about the function of T-cells. but i would prefer to descibe it as your body whereby the more healthier you are the more pure luck variable shaped T cell receptors your body is making randomly. along side ones it already has blueprints for.
when a pure luck t cell receptor latches onto something. it then locks on and blocks that virus receptor from locking onto a lung cell receptor. the T cell will then recognise it latched onto something. and split off a part of itself to then signal to go make more

this pure luck part is the what was at the start called the 'innate immune system' block
emphasis here. t cells are not just waiting for the lung cell to present itself with the viral molecule.
Tcells can latch on to viruses before it gets to the cell aswell. which is where if done right and there happen to be more security guards watching outside the factory and not many invaders in the neghbourhood you get successful no symptomatic 'innate immunity' defense.
but it al depends on how much lucky random security guards are outside watching the neighbourhood and how little amount of invaders there are. for your immune system to fight it off without asking to train many more guards to help out. and the effectiveness of a small team of guards against a small team of invaders to need much reinforcement is the 'iffy question' of the whole 'not necessary get a positive antibody test'

so keep that in mind
innate immunity
is more so about how many invaders got in. and how lucky your security guards can defend without calling in more trained up troops

but the important thing to note is those with compromised immune systems or other metabolic issues wont have as many random luck tcells and thus less luck. or if taught the identity of an invader your body may not be training new guards fast enough

being able to just be in the right place at the right time to grab a threat before its done damage
is innate immunity

just got to add a faceplant moment
the host between 40:00-45:00 is doing what i expected and trying to take the guests knowledge. but then spin it to say sars-covid-2 is just a common cold.. (facepalm)

the guest was talking about the identifying threat whilst virus is inside and multiply and signalling its full.. because the LUCK of innate immunity before getting in the lung cell is a small % (very slim wedge on the piechart).
the more invaders the more the t cells need to replicate the more it will show on a test

if it gets into a cell multiplies and bursts out. the more bursts out is the more symptomatic you will get
because your body is then getting damaged

..
the last points where he was mentioning the maybe/partial immunity due to previous families of sars..
he seems to be overselling this


yes your body has billions of different t cells
if we say 1bill varied immuno cells in your system while not infected by anything,
once your invaded/there might be just 200k-500k pot luck compatible to sars 2.

these pot luck come about from previous infections of similar viruses
ill explain
imagine MERS
once infected and your 500k potluck from prefious viral family sars1 tcells latch on, signal its found a latch, ramps up replicating more immuno cells of that type to then be upto like 500m(really sick and need a big fight against huge invasion)
or it might be less invaders so less production

and as you get better/were not as sick in first place, it dampens down to just 50m if your not being invaded as much (season stil present)
and decrease until lets say 1m it keeps as 'memory cells' once the season is over

those 1m memory cells are then used to make a few varients. so you might then have 200k-500k potluck that can be identifiable to sars2 (and lots of other 200k-500k batches for other pot lucks)

now here is the thing.
if you are only being invaded by 200k-500k sars 2. then your lucky it wasnt taking a direct breath from someone exhaling 500m viruses from someone really sick
but if your upclose such as a nurse with a very sick patient that is exhaling 500million of sars 2. then your 200k-500k immune system wont be enough to latch onto all viruses. nor fast enough to produce more tcells to then handle the viral load in that first wave/inhale.
and so the virus gets passed the early defenses and gets into the cells and the trojan horse is then set and ready to break out with more viruses from within

this is why the 'innate immunity' is very low % once you factor in the pot luck vs invader viral load and the replication rate of more cells to defend before getting into the cells
for instance a upclose inhale from a very sick person might be a 0.1% innate immunity chance
where as if 2 metres away only inhaling 1m viral load it might be a 20-50% innate immunity chance


obviously having some potluck first off due to it being a known family of previously immunised virus speeds up what can then be replicated into more tcells. to try catching up after the first wave of attack.
but its more about that each wave attack has a low viral load to have best success
to avoid it getting to attack the lung cells

and this part is the reason why doctors even healthy ones getting up close to sick patients and breathed on many days will get symptomatic sick. and would need face protection to dilute the viral load due to not being able to just distance themselves.

where as staying at a 2metre distance to dilute how much invaders gets into your mouth helps you fight it off sooner. with less symptoms. or if lucky no symptoms

its not an exact 20-50% pre-immunity guaranteed symptom free thing due to previous mutant strains. its also the viral load and the bodies health to efficiently replicate more when needed

but you also have to consider the immune systems speed of replication to be ready for the next round.
which might bring it down to just 10%or 1% chance of symptom free infection even from 2metre distance if your immune system is not fast enough to make more or you have no pre existing pot luck due to immuno problems/deficiencies..

.. a downside of this innate immunity. is that your body didnt build up 500m antibodies to then have millions of memory antibodies. instead it only has a few hundred k to then use as blueprints to the make under 100k pot luck variants.

this means a person that says they never ever had a runny nose or cough either has a very high immune system to have under 100k multiply to millions real quick.
or they are just risking their chances each time of having less memory cells so that eventually a varient of a variant of a variant then gets them sicker

its why having a mild symptom infection (cough and slight warm temp) is better than those who never have a cough. because as they age the ones that never built up much tolerance offensively will later have less tolerance defensively once their speed of replication slows down with age/other illness

I strongly believe this, I have known coronavius since my second school age, but covid-19 is another mutated form of the same virus that had been existing from ages, our accestors had ways to cure this virus and their immune system was so strong to combat the virus even completely in the past. Normally, tiny organisms like viruses, bacteria, fungi and protozoans are able to mutate from one form to another ina very short period of time, this evident the fact that this virus would have mutated in the past but people are yet still easily cured.

Scientific research has even led to ways deadly micro-organisms can be created and reproduced, the existing ones can even be genetically modified and mutated artificially, it is even possible that some cruel scientists could be behind the cause of some modern era diseases in order for the world to be more dependent on them, and now it is happening, the world are depending on pharmaceutical industries.

Instead for the scientists to focus on traditional medicines, and ways to boost immune system naturally, advising and telling reasons good lifestyles are beneficial, trying to reduce or extint environmental agents like smoke and chemicals that can reduce immune system, they busy focusing on what could make humans dependent on the drugs they are creating. And the fact still remain, drugs weakens immune system.

Drugs positive effect are just acute, but over long time period the immune system weakens and later deadly pathogens mutate and more adapting to human body in order to illicit there detrimental effects which can lead to death.

The video talks about the under-counting anti body test and herd immunity. I was fascinated on how they explained about immunology. I am not an expert or knowledgeable about that but how they explain it, I understand it well.

Actually, we can avoid any viruses if we have strong immunity. Our immune system helps us to fight viruses that enter in our body. Many people have been infected by Corona Virus because of weak immune system.

Why our immune system becomes weaker?

It is because of our lifestyle and environment around us. Most people prone in that are those who are:

In City - Most of the cities are crowded, polluted and has sophisticated lifestyle.
Age - Old people are more prone because their body is not strong enough to fight viruses.
Lifestyle - Foods and Regular exercise helps our body to contain nutrients which may help our immune system strong. The more toxic you intake, the more your body becomes vulnerable to the virus.
Stressed - Of course, if you are stress, you can`t sleep and eat well. That may affect your body immunity since we should have enough rest and nutrients to our body.

In my own opinion, we should become more aware about our immune system. Because I notice how some people take it as granted because they don`t balance their meal, have enthusiasm in exercise, avoiding extra pollution to the body (such smoking and alcoholic drinking). Let us all educate ourselves to improve our healthy lifestyle. We can kill the virus without using vaccines, if we just have a strong immune system to fight it.

As expert says, it become more difficult to produce anti-bodies from COVID-19 positive. Therefore, I think that being in a healthy lifestyle is better than to wait the vaccine. Remember, an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.

Natural remedies has advantages over other means in
+ Cost lesser
+ After effects are lesser or non
+ Less toxic
+ More readily available

My opinion is that a lot of investment has been made into the pharmacy companies already so they won't won't to run at a lost to switch focus away from it -this is more like a business ideal-  
There is an elderly man i am familiar with -80+ years- he has not taking any medication apart from natural medication for over 4 decades and he is as strong and active as ever, the government are leaving out what was used in old times for medication -natural remedies paved a path for the medication we have now-

More than 70 different research on possible corona virus vaccine on the way and all focusing on the same direction, I will not want to be used as a test trial for any possible vaccine outcome -the desperation to make something out of this pandemic situation is glaring-
Before corona virus out body has been faced with attacks from pathological organisms -bacteria, fungi, virus, parasites and more- some which eventually took the lives of their victims and others which resistance and immunity won the battle,  a patient in Africa can have a case of malaria and be placed on intensive medical care and still die of it while an old man in Africa too can get that same malaria and with little anti- malaria pills recover-immune strength matters-  Research should go beyond the laboratory of a pharmaceutical company, go into the natural world.

My opinions are subjective, and are based of a lack of medical training ( Pharma indoctrination ). Many years as a systems programmer have led me to question the origins an causes of problems, and I seem to apply this to many of my life experiences. For example, there is an obsession with chronological age, and many Pharma poisons are prescribed based on this, and not as a result of any health testing. Biological age is far more significant, and older people who have resisted vaccination and the use of drugs seem to be more resistant to the virus than many people who follow the standard American diet. However it is extremely to difficult to discover these research results. Similarly, all talk about coping with the virus are based on pumping large sums of monet into the Pharma industry, and not on research into natural remedies that have evolved over millions of years ot trials and testing.

One good thing about the virus is that it has generated a massive amount of research, but much of this is suppressed. For example, babies exposed to a wide range of infections develop a cross-viral immunity during the first year of life, and this cannot be established later in life. This ties in with evolutionary success, and it doesn't seem that it is limited to humans. The so called health system doesn't like this, and it wants people to have weakened immune systems that make them dependent on their poisons and artificially constructed immune system replacements.

Are your statements based on your expertise in immunology, or the peer-reviewed papers that you have read and that you can cite, or just your own speculation and biases?

Looks like arrogance has taken over.  The average age of infected Americans here in Canada is now 49 years.   I assume its worse in the US, where young people think they are invincible.

I understand people are getting restless, but the virus doesn't care you think you are healthy. 

Immunity and health, while related, are not connected so directly.  Many obese smokers have survived infection, and many healthy young people have died.

We still don't know exactly what the virus does to the body, so assuming white blood cell numbers are the key is premature.

Age is the main factor in deaths right now, not taking into account any other attribute. 

 

I initially thought you were trying to hit the symmetrically increasing even number sequence. I had been looking out for that.

I agree to an extent on the vaccine point, if it's going to be discovered and before all regulations would be passed, so much time would have elapsed and people would have begun to live with the situation. My main reservation however of acquired immunity is the after effects on the person who has recovered. I've come across (on the internet) cases of lung conditions, shortening of breadth, weakness and other effects after a person has tested negative. Understanding how the virus reacts after a person recovers would be vital in the quest for normalcy.

I was going to give you 5 merits, but I dropped it to 4 because of your vaccine comment. In my opinion there will never be a vaccine, and certainly not one that even approaches the natural immune system. As I see it, the only people that are threatened by this virus are those with weakened immune systems. ie. the vaccinated, the sugar drink consumers, those eating ultra-processed foods, smokers, and recreational and pharmaceutical drug users. Age doesn't really have anything to do with it, provided the person has a healthy diet, gets exercised, stays hydrated, and keeps off the pharmaceuticals that the pharma salesmen ( known as doctors) try to force on them without checking heath histories or lifestyle habits.

I couldn't watch the whole video at a go, I'll probably watch more bits of it over the it couple of days, till it's complete.

Herd immunity has been a prevalent discussion since the onset of the pandemic caused by the SARS CoV-2 virus. These discussions are mostly tentative, as lot is known about the virus but yet, a lot is yet to be known.
I was always of the impression that herd immunity would mean simply allowing everyone to contract the virus, which could take years, despite the rate of it's spread and lead to loss of lives. But if one factors in the other aspects of immunity (discussed in the early minutes of the video), where we have developed immunity and intrinsic ones. It could happen quicker with lower mortality rate.

The body has cells that defends it against a variety of threats such as bacteria (neutrophils), parasite (eosinophilis) etc. There are also cells that fight against viruses, and they would have a patent for a broad strain of viruses and related ones. So if the body is exposed to one which it can activate antibodies for, the virus is blocked, and the spread is slowed.
I should note that this is also dependent on other variables, like; age, existing health condition, living standard, etc.

The higher the percentage of people with some kind of protection, the slower the spread, so those without immunity would also be more protected, while we await a vaccine.

This video is a bit long, but I found it fascinating, and I would be interested in hearing other opinions about it.
In the video the Fat Emperor interviews Creon Levit, the chief scientist of Planet Labs. I loved his analogy where he describes the human body as a collection of factories producing specific products, and the immune system having a police force checking the factory bins to see if they were producing unauthorised waste products.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IY4M0kp8xM