Topic: The free market speaks! FDA-AVOIDED Dustberries! (Read 10241 times)

Other interesting info:
It is also noted that this is used in
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFDA/ReportsManualsForms/Reports/BudgetReports/UCM243370.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/05inrate.pdf

So that's (on average) $48.13 per income taxpayer per year. Actually, that does not sound like a bad deal for this service. And there are probably more taxpayers now so it is an overestimate.

This is just a quick estimation. I realize the government has other sources of revenue that US citizens all pay for indirectly. I am also not taking into account all the money that is spent in meeting FDA standards, which are probably the strictest in the world (at least for drugs, ever since thalidomide). You eventually pay this in the form of higher drug cost, as well as money going to medicare, medicaid, social security, etc. I haven't bothered to add this up but it is most likely much higher than that $48.13 per year. Maybe someone else would like to.

If you have enough money and/or clout you can get out of:

1) paying taxes (see Scientology)
2) FDA bans (see Tobacco Products)

So, how much better is the FDA, really, than a private "certification firm" without teeth? I couldn't easily find a primary source for what percentage of drugs, etc need to be eventually recalled even after FDA approval (as a kind of measure of effectiveness). But that info would also be useful to this analysis.

I don't have an opinion on this yet. I am just trying to frame the discussion so that it becomes more possible for rational decisions to be made rather than endlessly arguing back and forth.

There is something pretty close to a real life case of this.

A homeopathic cold/allergy drug that was being sold outside the purview of the FDA for over 20 years (although the FDA advised against its use).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zicam

When the company got sued for making people lose their sense of smell, investors sued the company for not doing the science right and being transparent with the results (and thus losing the investors money). It went all the way to the supreme court (January 2011) where they argued about "what if satanists started liking a drug and it became associated with the devil, could the company get sued for that" and other crazy stuff (barking lunatics, etc) about what constitutes "reliable information":

http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/09-1156.pdf

No, read the thread. <3

I didn't read the thread...so let me know if this has been covered.

Has anyone with access to a geiger counter (not that expensive) tested these berries? Over time wouldn't a trusted group of experts come into being that people would pay to make recommendations equivalent to the FDA. People selling foods, etc would get inspected and certified by this group. Is a there reason to think this would a be more or less corrupt system than the FDA?

Then he would just take a picture with a dust filter installed. I doubt he would buy and install any more since there is no one to ensure that he continues to do so.

What what hidden agendas? WTF? If you are worried, just ask the dustberries guy to put a dust filter in between the rigs and berries. Problem solved

*shrug*

I can't know what I don't know. I do know that if someone says 'STOP DON'T WALK ANY FURTHER!' I'll probably ask why and they'll probably explain. If they refuse the explain, I would obviously press on and do some investigation of my own. I don't think there is any lack of explanation why foods are regulated for safety. This is not to say that I agree with all regulations, but the people involved can't all be evil and in it for 'hidden agendas'. It's statistically improbable.

Since you're a "life scientist" that's pretty much what I expected you to say.

As a life scientist I can't comprehend someone learning about berries with a 'hidden agenda'.

They do when they only "find out" if the berry causes cancer because they have a hidden agenda. I mean really, if you spend your whole life trying to find out if a berry causes cancer obviously you're going to want to "find out" it does, amirite guys?

Now if you let the free market handle it, you get the absolute best-quality, cheapest possible cancer-berries (thanks to zero government inefficiency) and then someone else will sell you the cure to that pesky cancer. It's a win-win for everyone.

America is pretty much scattered, uneducated and helpless. The whole world is. That doesn't mean that the scientists who spend their entire life finding out if a berry can cause cancer or not don't deserve to be listened to.

Let me get this straight.  You don't think America is scatterd, uneducated and helpless?

I agree with allten on this one. We should crush those evil regulating bodies that keep us from contracting diseases from random foods and stop people from poisoningour milk, meat, produce etc. We deserve the choice to be scattered, uneducated and helpless individuals when there are countless educated and passionate individuals working in that field trying to keep people safe and healthy.

Don't you love it when idiots try to say things like that?  It's almost as dumb as saying "cops are bad".

What is a "health moral hazard"?

But it isn't the consumers giving up their freedom, so why would they care about getting extra safety at the cost of some regulating industry existing?

why so much support for the FDA?
Do a google search for "FDA Hidden agenda"
As with all research, it takes time to sort between fact, opinion, and fictions, but if you really think
the current FDA cares about public health.... you've been deceived.

The whole point of the U.S. constitution was to limit and distribute power in government because when it is
consolidated and increased it is always abused. Who regulates all these bureaucratic regulating agencies?
When they screw up or have alternate agendas rarely anyone puts them into check.
Let the free market do it.

FDA just creates health moral hazard - people stop taking their food health choices into their own hands 'cuz government has their back. what a joke!

Those who would change freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security and always end up losing both.

Yeah, now we know what we do with our computers when mining Bitcoins isn't profitable enough. We use them as some kind of perpetuum mobile to solve the world's energy problem. Renewable energy from computers FTW!

1. Acquire steal computer
2. Bring computer to Chernobyl Fukushima
3.
4. Infinite Dust
5. Infinite Radiation
6.
7. Infinite Profit

The Bitcoin network is regulation without force. We all voluntarily agreed to the rules. We could each make our own version of Bitcoin but we don't, not because we're afraid of having physical force used on us but because we don't want to be isolated using our version that few to no other people use. Regulation can and does work using only market forces.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.624509

Sorry for the troll.

I didn't say that (does it already cause hallucinations?), but please enlighten me and tell me where inside your computer you find >radioactive< material.

Haha. You thought you don't get cancer from computers. Cute.

I had to laugh. xD

God, what kind of computer do you  have that 1)produces dust and 2) makes it radioactive.

You could sell this technology to operators of atomic power plants, so they don't have to filter these materials from shitloads of mined earth and stuff.

Also how do you prevent all that radiation coming from your computer to cause cancer in first place?

Give the kid a break, he's a daring pioneer in alternative sleep routines. Who can fault him for being incoherent and groggy. At least he has an excuse now.

In which case atlas probably shouldn't be posting. You can't make a coherent argument (which atlas doesn't seem to do anyway at the best of times) if you're not even going to read the points you're meant to be refuting.

A slight case of missreading I think. "Slurry pit" and "Slurpee" are similar if you're just skimming the text.

Why the hell did you bring slurpees up? Do you just fail to read things before posting one of you're incoherent arguments?

Heh if such rigorous regulation for slurpees was truly desirable people would pay for it. Also, said regulatory body would be accountable to the customers paying for its services. If they don't trust them nor desire them , they will not be reimbursed and thus cease to exist.

Yes, most alternate political and economic theories assume that people want to take personal responsibility. Instead of ridiculing people who question the status quo, we should be thinking of alternative proposals to their faulty ones.

I don't remember ever having time to go down to my local slurry pit and asking the regulatory team there to have all the gear provided to me to perform an audit of it's services.

Maybe I could hire another unaccountable private company to audit the first unaccountable private accountancy company?

Ah but the private company will be accountable assuming its being supported by paying constituents. If people desire clean environments and contract a company to keep said environments in check, a company failing to keep its part of the contract will not be paid and thus be quickly displaced by one that meets the desires of its constituents.

So what you're saying is if another unaccountable private company (with no interested in protecting any of the national and public resources, mind) regulates another private companies dumping of toxic waste in a public and national resource this will be the perfect outcome?

That's the whole point of America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlU5-LQ_EGE

Libertarianism, in all it's glory. O how my heart yearns to try all those things that my oppressive government thinks are 'dangerous' to be mixed in with my food and pharmaceuticals. If I want to use mercury to homeopathically cure my brain tumor, goddamn it, I should be able to buy it from a basement pharmacist. Prop 215 can suck it. Lead paint for life.


Read 'The Jungle', son.


How many languages did this go through in google translate?

Found this on reddit about the dustberries..

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/mhbcv/picked_up_some_delicious_bitberries_at_the_corner/

Yes because accountable regulation would exist as opposed to regulatory monopolies that cannot fail and be easily displaced.

I'm just going to point out that atlas's idea of government wrongdoing is when a coal company dumps radioactive, carcinogenic ash slurry into a river upstream of a water purification plant because government regulations weren't enforced (against dumping toxic waste in rivers) he will blame the government becuase he has some wierd notion that if those laws against dumping toxic waste in the river didn't exist the coal company wouldn't have done so in the first place.

JUST CHECKING  

Umm hello? We already are doing that. We're just making fun of the dustberry producing idiots in our break time.

This quote from SA preatty much summarizes this entire thread.


Don't get it twisted, I disagree with 90% of the shit these people spew. However, in between the 90% of the pure shit they post, there does lie some truth.

We should not be focused on selling dried "bit-berries"...

What we should be focused on is building revolutionary apps and services that accept Bitcoin.

Quick question.  How do you think those products end up on those store shelves?

Also, these strawberries just look gross.  I wouldn't give those to my dogs.

Rofl. My girlfriend just screamed when she read this.

Dustberries - Worst case: might give you cancer
- Best case: The berries you are eating are covered with the finest dead skin cells and dandruff flakes of some Bitcoiner

I still don't understand why he thinks this is an actual valid description of what the government does, there is a reason there are parts of our society that we do not trust to private groups (especially regulation), but fuck if that will ever get through to the Atlastron 4000

Holy haberdashery, Batman! No more NutraSweet on my berries and milk.

Fun fact: Donald Rumsfeld was once part of the FDA.

https://todayyesterdayandtomorrow.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/donald-rumsfeld-in-bed-with-aspartame/

Couldn't help myself, Jeffk, but...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_monopoly

I enjoy unpasteurized milk on my dehydrated strawberries. I meant to say that I used to: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/28/feds-sting-amish-farmer-selling-raw-milk-locally/?page=all


Trust me this one time, Silo Mervin. Them Bitcoiners  goin' to want our unpasteurized milk on them dehydrated berries.

Plenty. People pay for what they desire and neglect what they don't. That to me is very effective regulation. It doesn't bend the world to the pompous whims of the few but it certainly caters to the individual.

Anyways, the social contract is not a valid nor a voluntary contract considering all governments over all associations of people will initiate force against anyone who does not wish to enter into such a contract. I believe man is entitled to interact with his fellow man.

What in fuck's name would a "regulation without force" do or accomplish?

And honestly what the fuck is a "government monopoly", and how do you have no concept of what a Social Contract is and how it works?

I have yet to see any direct evidence of that.

This is assuming regulations means provisions provided by a government monopoly and not regulations provided without force.

I'll give up the "freedom" of being able to buy possibly poisoned food or sell possibly poisoned food for the peace of mind that comes with a FDA drastically lowering the risk of being poisoned. Almost everyone would, exceptions being the people here who don't understand how deadly lack of regulations can be.

This happens every day when the FDA fails to do its job. The response from the FDA is little to nothing.

Anyways, they'll likely have dependents and the grocery store will be found as the source. Word will get around and if the store doesn't shape up, people will stop doing business with it. If people are happy shopping there despite the risk of poisoning, that's their right.

Everyone should hire a lab and test all your food for botulism, people who can't afford it should just take the risk that the grocery stores have vetted their products.

What is their response if it poisons and kills them?

Heh, obviously it isn't causing people much of an issue. Certainly not enough to cut their business with them. Why should they be forced to pay for your pompous sensibilities when it comes to food quality? I see no victim. I only see choice. I hold that people know what is best for themselves. I am not their father and neither are you.

I would prefer every shitty chain restaurant and globalist fast-food regime destroyed but it doesn't mean I am entitled to this fantasy. People will eat what they desire and if it happens to be shit, by all means. It's their goddamn right.

Err, a grocery store not too many miles from the cunt-hole town I live in? Yeah, they like to sell shit that's way past the the expiry date. They on occasion turn their freezers off overnight. You'll frequently buy frozen things that have very obviously been frozen multiple times. Most of their "fresh" produce has the surface texture of a scrotum. One time, someone I know bought a ham, and when they cooked it it smelt like roadkill. This is not a new practice for them, they have done all of these things for many years.

What on earth makes you think the free market will drive them out of business?

No, I simply buy products from reputable grocery stores that haven't gone out of business from selling bad products.

But what if you didn't have an internet forum to correct your knowledge of this product and saw it on store shelves? should you have to go home and research every brand you buy before you get it?

It's a glider from Conway's game of life, "hacker symbol" or whatever

It's not THAT hard.

Ok, of course "bitcoin strawberry" is a really long and complicated search term and all that and really Google should be expected to know what we are looking for when googling for "Bitcoin strawberry" and...

oh wait... it does....

 http://www.reddit.com/user/freeborn

no, no. I mean I actually don't know who is selling them. I cannot find them anywhere to buy them.

That is why you buy them anyways. If you get sick, you will know not to buy from the seller again. Or if you die from food poisoning, your family will know not to buy from the seller.

how can they expect to sell them then!

Not quite-- I still don't know who's making them.

It seems the free-market is already regulating itself by making these berries an issue.

BULLSHIT!!! Name one person on this forum that has brain tumors. (darn you to go there!)

Some people in my circle seem to think it is possibly responsible for brain tumors.

Well, there are BFR's (Brominated_flame_retardant) in computers, many believed to be harmful to humans. And there's cadmium and other not so nice things in there too. Generally I wouldn't use a computers exhaust as a supply of fresh air, although I don't believe it to be critically harmful.

...or the DOSA (Depratment of Silly Acronyms). (apologies to MPFC)

The biggest problem I have with Stawberries is with the pickers. Of all the images on the net, I've yet to see porta-johns, and if you did find one, what are the chances that there's running water nearby to wash your hands prior to going back out to a pickin'? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Here's the bottom line: The demographics that normally harvest our food--here in the states--normally answer nature when it calls right there in the fields. Washing hands is not even an option. But if you believe that every single strawberry is scrubbed down prior to hitting the market, you've got another thing coming. ~JP on the SFV LP

That's alright, I'll be waiting with the UABB 

You're probably right. I'm out of touch with Amerifaggotry.

OSHA is the Occupational Safety and Health Administration; you probably meant FDA.

if you're actually serious about this you'd have done a few things differently
1.) go get berrycoin.com or something so you have a webpage to sell them through
2.) include that URL and a small QR code on your packaging(linking to weusecoins on your webpage would be nice as well)
3.) as far as the berries themselves are concerned any dehydrator i've sold/used has a filter, go to homedepot or lowes and get a furnace air filter to place between your rigs and your berries, enclose the sides you want things enclosed to force the air through the filter. OR go with liqud cooling get some flexible copper and use a radiator as a heat exchanger for drying the berries

Okay so upon verifying with a government agency on the subject (actually I just asked a friend on skype), you can't actually get cancer from those strawberries unless the computers were old computers that still had more dangerous radiation emitting parts than the ones that newer computers have. But that doesn't excuse the dust issue, and by the looks of his rigs there is absolute no filtering going on.

So cancer? Probably not.

Gonna eat them?  

EDIT: Title updated to reflect findings.

Do you drink milk from a carton with a recycling symbol?

Come to think of it, the recycling symbol is kind of creepy too. Would you eat a bag of strawberries that had a recycled symbol on it?

Nice little typo on the back, too!

hey thanks terrytibs. edit: and redheaded elggawf

I guess although I can't totally rule out 'foo' until I find who did it, I can't assume it's him either.

I am glad to see that being a hacker has evolved from BBS door hacking all the way up to dehydrating strawberries. With any luck, by the time I have grandchildren 'hacking' will be getting the morning newspaper.

It's the "glider", an interesting piece in the game of life, commonly used as the "hacker emblem" by white-hat hackers.

Edit: Beaten like a red-headed stepchild.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_Emblem

...

That symbol on the bag-- what does it stand for?

The user "foo" has the same one as his avatar.



Could he be the one making them?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/foo-4199

Christ, so wrong.


True. It's an awesome idea, just done with all the finesse expected of do-it-yourself bitcoin businessmen.

I hear Iran is switching to Bitcoin mining rigs for their enrichment facilities - turns out they are simply more effective!

I don't even

Can I build an atomic energy plant and/or bomb from these computeriffic radioactive dust particles and if so can I either power my mining rig with it or irradiate Fort Knox?

As many of you know, I'm virtually new to Bitcoin (and society in general) and I choose to get my information about bitcoin from people who aren't fueled by positive energy alone, on somethingawful.com forums.

While looking through all the posts in a bitcoin thread to make sure they spelled my name correctly (I hate being called 'Matt' because kabalarianism dictates that in combination with my birthdate it would make me aggressive....and it's usually given to fat losers and I'm skinny as all hell), and I came across something I hadn't caught before--- someone selling strawberries dehydrated by their mining rigs.



I respect the guys at SA even when they can't quite decide if I'm a scammer, 'scummy asshole' or middle-aged lowlife, but at the moment I'm a little disappointed to see the majority of the responses completely ignoring the health hazards of these strawberries.



I think "dust" and "grossness" are the least of concerns with this product. How about cancer? The dust from computers carries loads of radioactive dust that causes cancer. Whoever is selling these horribly dangerously prepared strawberries is asking for a lawsuit.

Now that I've said my piece (better than paying ANOTHER $40 to register/avatar/archives/etc on SA) I'd like to give a friendly word to all our libertarian friends (note: of all the things I'm uneducated on, politics is at the top)--

Libertarians! This is what your free market brings. Enjoy the cancer, suckers!