Topic: The GG Poker Paradox: Thriving in a Declining Industry (Read 241 times)

And it's because it's no fun anymore as the psychology aspect of poker online is almost non existent because of all these solver tools that make the average online player a lot nittier than your average 'tight' player before solvers.  It's all about what's mathematically the right move and playing it like rock paper scissors.  It's no fun.

If you guys wanna play poker, play live poker imho.  At least it's fun talking to other people while you're waiting for your cards.  Some casinos even have free drinks. 

It also really baffles me that crypto poker is not really a thing and/or success yet.
Sure GG offers crypto deposits but still it's not really crypto poker since your coins get converted into fiat after the deposit.
True crypto sites like SWC (still wouldn't trust this site, even though they are around for like 10 years) will let you play with btc straight up.

I have a GG account for many years already and even though i love poker I never really use it. They have some nice promos here and there but there are not really any advantages using crypto, only the option to being able to deposit and withdraw it.

@Poker Player, @seoincorporation, @peter0425, @Wexnident, @arallmuus, @Doan9269, @alani123, @Wiwo, @Julien_Olynpic, @yahoo62278, @tokeweed, @Findingnemo, @Yatsan, @davis196,
Most of you focused on Strong Reputation & Marketing, Excellent Software, Large Player Base, Player Engagement, and Combating Cheating as the reasons for GG's paradoxical success.
I am not saying these are not important factors; indeed, these are the building blocks of any responsible gambling platform, let alone poker. Do you think other platforms lack these measures to such a degree that none of them is doing well? Here, I will give you the example of PokerStars, and I would argue that no one can beat PokerStars' standards when it comes to fair play-based reputation. Regarding promotion and marketing, PokerStars ruled the arena in terms of creating a whole new category of emerging poker celebrities and engaging content. They had a significant player base, and there wasn't much difference in terms of player base among other platforms.
But things suddenly changed after the advent of GG. It's not that GG is better in terms of all the above indicators; there was something else much deeper which, in my humble opinion, is responsible for GG's growth.
My argument is that while other platforms were going 'all in' to make poker a 'professional sport,' e.g., enabling HUDs on their platforms to favor skilled players, high amounts of rakeback, and so on, GG took a different approach from the beginning. They focused on the gambling aspect of poker, e.g., you cannot use a HUD (though they have their own, but it is available for all; even then, you can only look for VPIP at first glance, so there's less data to analyze), by default you have to gamble for your rakeback (you can choose fixed rakeback, but it is low), gamble for GG care, enabling bets on the flop, and promoting side bets, etc. All in all, they made life difficult for pro players. So most of the players (recreational players) who were losing on PokerStars quickly began to see slower deterioration of their bankrolls, which made them stick with GG.
GG is also available almost all over the world (they are good at bypassing local laws), and no matter which country you're from, there will be a skin of GG for you, and you will be playing internationally. The story is different for PokerStars, as not only are they not available worldwide, but you cannot play internationally from some locations, e.g., for Indians, there is PokerStars India, and you will be playing with only Indian players. I am not sure how GG is able to do that because if it were legal, I am sure PokerStars would have done it already.

   

I don't think they are much better than Pokerstars at this, so I don't think that's the determining factor.

It seems that especially at the beginning they gave a lot of promotions and the field was quite soft, but it must have been getting tougher as is normal because when a room becomes famous, the word spreads, more regulars go there, and as more regulars go there, the field gets harder. I have played quite a lot in pacific because the field has always been softer than in Pokerstars but it had a shitty software, which is another thing that GG seems to have done well.

The only way for a platform to grow in the online world is a combination of two factors: offering a great service and having great marketing.
The question about the overall decline of the poker industry cannot be answered easily. My speculation is that poker is a time consuming game that requires some level of skill and experience. The modern day people are lazy and have short attention span, so there are less and less people, who are willing to put time and effort into becoming decent poker players. Social media ruined the world.

You raise some interesting points. Especially in ongoing promotions like freerolls, I think it's the main reason why new crypto-based poker platforms are struggling. Even with reduced rake and attractive offers. Another is the difficulty of gaining long-term player confidence and maintaining a player base, GG Poker not only admits this with its excellent reputation and marketing, But it also provides a stable, reliable and attractive environment for both casual and professional players. Their software placement is top notch. At first it may not seem like a luxury. But it will greatly improve the user experience and certain things like bots or collaboration.

Another important factor is money. GG Poker has a large player base. Therefore, players are guaranteed to perform at any time of the day. The return on this investment is extremely important. And many smaller platforms struggle with it. Because when the new promotion ends There will not be enough players to sustain the game which will ultimately lead to a decline.

For Stake.com if they want to compete in the long term they must not only focus on the basics like freerolls. But it also needs to maintain a strong player experience and retain those players after the embargo ends. It's not just about attracting players. It's about storing data.


You're right, poker, specifically the original kind. It still has a core audience. Problem is how to attract new players. Specifically with so many other game modes, you said. Though offering freebies like freerolls will most certainly attract new players. Though it can't be kept up for long as a solution. The focus needs to shift at some point The position needs to be one that you want to hold and the experience. Not the bump.

Platforms like GG Poker have found that balance by investing heavily in player engagement. Not just through bonuses But it also makes the poker experience easy, reliable and fun, this consistent quality is what keeps players coming back for more. Even if the fuse is dry. I think smaller platforms and startups should focus on building the same player loyalty by enhancing the user experience. Focus on game variety and guarantee the quality of the game Promotions can attract people. But there are long-term benefits to keeping them.



The rise and fall of poker platforms appears to follow similar interests. Like many other phenomena in the world of gaming or finance, GG Poker may benefit from a perfect storm, strong software. Clever marketing and special times like COVID-19, when people are increasingly looking for fun online.

I also agree that poker the same applies to cryptocurrencies. There are fluctuations due to extraneous factors such as the state of the economy or market trends. However, I feel that is what makes sites like GG Poker stand out, even though returns are diminishing. It is the ability to create a culture and engage employees. Whether through the motivation of strong players, well-designed competitions, or even a collaboration with poker influencers, they managed to stay relevant and thrive when most others were flailing.

If a new startup wants to compete They want nothing more than promotion. They must understand these value chains. and create a strong platform that can climb up and down.

It's still got the own audience probably new players are not much attracted to it as before due to the availability of wide range of choices for them but still it's a classic game that never fades away in my opinion. Providing freebies can attract but it's not sustainable method so casinos had to choose what's best for them because they need to make profits and can't give freebies all the time if their intention is to make profits.

I think it's just interest in online poker is going down, coupled with the average online poker player has gotten way tighter due to all the info out there which in turn makes the noobs lose a lot faster than they would be losing had they played during 2010 or even before that. 

Online poker back in the day was a bit easier.  Just play tight and aggressive and you'd make decent money doing that at 200NL.  Today, almost everybody plays nitty TAG so playing TAG yourself kinda defeats the purpose.

Maybe players believe that GG poker is doing the best job in combatting collusion and bots? That seems to be a crazy problem on most platforms, although getting them to do anything about it is worse than pulling teeth. Every 6 months or so you'll see WPN refund a few players here and there saying they caught someone botting, but I don't think even half that were affected are actually compensated. To be honest I think they just trash a random house account and say it was a bot to make themselves look like they're actually doing something. Cannot prove that of course, just my conspiracy theory thinking lol.

This is an interesting topic and it touches upon not only the reasons for GG Poker's success in a dying poker market, but also the reasons for the decline of poker itself. In general, there is no single reason for the decline of poker. Just as there is no single reason for the temporary heyday of GG Poker. Poker. Just like cryptocurrencies, it develops in waves, and accordingly, interest in it changes over time. In order for a new round of interest to arise, many things must coincide. New promising platforms like GG Poker must appear, the economy must produce a large amount of printed money, as was the case during this covid-19, and some kind of push must occur, as during the formation of the last poker bubble.

There are alot of reasons and things to bring a project down to the it kneels no matter how active such a project is and for sure if there is lack of experience and intelligence then it could lead to a faster collapse in most cases and if you check a few of those projects that have taken such a position of being declared a failed project, you could easily trace it failure to mostly failure of management a d poker being a highly technical game requeirs alot of experience and responsibilities to stand out running it service.

I think you're putting things a bit backwards here.

Stake isn't the best example for poker because we aren't sure if they're doing anything to prevent boting or counting bots.
Online poker is incredibly hard to get right especially without KYC that most crypto sites run on.
And if you've played on any online platform that isn't crypto friendly you'll realize that they commit many privacy violations to make sure their players aren't cheating.

Anyway, cheating aside... What makes you think a crypto startup will have thousands of dollars to waste on freerolls daily? Stake is the biggest online casino on earth most likely. A startup can have a great UI, great devs, a fast platform, provable fairness perhaps even... But all this funding has to come from somewhere. If they have so much money to spend on customer acquisition maybe they've gone past being  a startup.

When something is not doing well, then it calls for attention and we have to check in what is the possible cause for that, this may be that such game or platform style is not invoke anymore and by this its going on a decline, it may also be that the best advertisement and promotion on that aspect is not much enough to have fascinate the interest of gamblers on paying such game, lastly, we may be having an operational error in this regard, which may be due to poor management.

All of this

Regular player in ggpoker here but I had stopped for months but lets be real about this. Have you ever seen better software out there compared to GG? There is none and GG is top notch, once you have tried GG then you will realize how trash the other softwares are. You can even gamble on their software, blackjack, roulette you name it all and they have it on their software

Not to mention that they have higher prizepool on low-mid tournaments so yeah in terms of numbers, there are alot more players on GG on daily basis because low-mid tournaments are the most packed tournaments

Well, there was a time when no one could have imagined that Pokerstars would be dethroned, and look. The end of online poker as we knew it already happened, and if you mean a total end that's not going to happen. It will still have more or less traffic but it still has many years ahead.

Time I guess? I reckon the recent poker platforms aren't exactly offering anything better than say GG poker as you said. People won't leave what they're used to if in the first place there's nothing better, like a LOT better than the current one they use. Not to mention Poker isn't a solo game, so having an established player base also helps. Not familiar with how GG poker works but I reckon there's like a "level" system there as well or at least something similar that takes both time and money to raise, so yeah, unless other platforms can give out something better immediately, no reason to leave it for them.

That, and partly poker isn't really anything new now, unlike in the past. Kind of getting into the market late problem.

GG poker has been around for quite a while now so obviously they have been able to make a reputation for themselves and a branding that a lot of new projects would have a hard time building to catch up to GG. The platform has loyal customers now as they are trusted and tested.
The priority for me always is the players. Make sure that anyone that uses your platform will have fun and be entertained in the easiest, most convenient way possible for them. I am talking about interface, variation of games and promotions, and many more. Marketing should also play a huge part in such success.

I am not sure if this analogy refers to slow or accelerated growth.
  Really! good argument but only problem is that it can be applied to any deviation.
Currently, I do not have any reason to believe so, and honestly, I do not want to because it will be the final nail in the coffin of online poker.
lol you stopped when they decreased prize of freeroll. You are kind of essence of my argument that freerolls cannot be the way to gain sustainable player base.

I have seen some other casinos offering freerolls in the past but they stopped offering them because the freerolls were abused by users, and stake had some abuse too, that's why they ask for users to complete the KYC level 2 to be able to play those freerolls. And even with that measure for sure some users will keep trying to abuse those freerolls just by the fact that there is money involved.

But the freerolls are a cool feature and some good marketing, i try a lot of them when they was for $1000, but didn't have luck at all.

That is probably one reason. I lived through the era of poker expansion, though only the end of it. And it has been in decline for many years now.


GG poker is a growth within a decreasing market, they will have succeeded with their projects and investments but it is as if someone starts playing today in NL5 and in 3 years is in the final of the WSOP. It is the exception that proves the rule. Don't be surprised if in a couple of years or so they hit a slump.

I have seen many new crypto-based poker platforms mushrooming up in recent times. Not even one of them is doing well except 7XL, which is a skin of the GG network. What could be the reason for that? Why is it very hard to compete with GG Poker despite lower rake structures and massive promotional offers?
One promising prospect which I can think of is Stake.com, which recently introduced poker into their platform. New startups might learn a thing or two from Stake.com, as they are offering regular $500 freerolls which are now starting to show results, especially in their cash tables. Will it be sustainable if they stop those lucrative freerolls? That is the question, as we have seen many startups die after stopping freerolls.
What could be the reason behind such failures? Is it because poker, in general, is on the decline?(collusion, solvers etc.). Even most traditional fiat-based established poker platforms are not doing well, except GG.
But why is GG showing impressive growth and on the verge of claiming monopoly? Is it because of their massive investment in software? Or is it because they are collaborating with famous poker players? In my humble opinion, this can't be the reason, as PokerStars has been doing that for much longer, but their player base is declining rapidly.
What are your thoughts on this matter and what do you think is the secret sauce of success in this field?