Topic: The Great Misconception (Read 2812 times)

Quote from: Jakewell on June 08, 2013, 03:32:50 PM

People always seem to think that BTC is overvalued and that we are currently in the great bubble of 2013 with only one possible outcome... Down.

But allow me to warp your mind around:
There is no bubble, we are actually in a great depression, the depression of FIAT!
BTC isn't going up, it's FIAT that's going down! Every day your FIAT is worth a little less.

BTC has decreasing inflation, FIAT has increasing inflation!

in the 2012 i bought the last iphone for 700 dll, and this year i can buy the new iphone for the same usd amount.. so the bubble is on bitcoin, not in the fiat..

With same amount of bitcoins you can now buy $110/$5 -> 20 iphones

Techno Mr. Bojangles with that many iPhones.
Bitcoin is nextlevel better. We're shockingly lucky any amount of fiat can still part a bitcoin from its owner.

Odalv

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

People always seem to think that BTC is overvalued and that we are currently in the great bubble of 2013 with only one possible outcome... Down.

But allow me to warp your mind around:
There is no bubble, we are actually in a great depression, the depression of FIAT!
BTC isn't going up, it's FIAT that's going down! Every day your FIAT is worth a little less.

BTC has decreasing inflation, FIAT has increasing inflation!

in the 2012 i bought the last iphone for 700 dll, and this year i can buy the new iphone for the same usd amount.. so the bubble is on bitcoin, not in the fiat..

With same amount of bitcoins you can now buy $110/$5 -> 20 iphones

Jakewell

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: afbitcoins on June 06, 2013, 01:35:44 PM

People always seem to think that BTC is overvalued and that we are currently in the great bubble of 2013 with only one possible outcome... Down.

But allow me to warp your mind around:
There is no bubble, we are actually in a great depression, the depression of FIAT!
BTC isn't going up, it's FIAT that's going down! Every day your FIAT is worth a little less.

BTC has decreasing inflation, FIAT has increasing inflation!

in the 2012 i bought the last iphone for 700 dll, and this year i can buy the new iphone for the same usd amount.. so the bubble is on bitcoin, not in the fiat..

Odalv

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

Since the federal reserve was established 100 years ago, the US dollar has devalued by 98%

They call it 2% inflation. (1.02 ^ 100 = 7,25 => 86%/100 year )
expected: During 100 years $1 had to inflate into $0.14 (2% inflation)
reality: $1 inflated to $0.02-$0.04 (inflation is 3.5-7 times higher )

notme

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Activity: 1904

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Quote from: johnyj on June 07, 2013, 06:32:49 AM

Quote from: notme on June 07, 2013, 06:31:33 AM

Quote from: johnyj on June 07, 2013, 06:28:12 AM

http://www.agweb.com/article/usda_predicts_higher_milk_prices_for_2013/

It's a common sense that empolyees never questioned the profit of the company even their salary is only 1% of the CEO's bonus

Same for money, there is no inflation since those banks pocketed all the newly printed money, for every one dollar of inflation, they pocketed 99, that's the reason even after 4x increase of money supply, there is barely some inflation. Anyway, no one cares as long as their milk price do not rise Wink

A 3% increase? When there is 400% increase in money supply Cool

Stocks, mortgages, and bonds.

Exactly, these are mostly bank's holdings. Print money to support the price of my own assets, is there any business better than that?

I agree. And don't forget: If we make a really bad bet, we just have to make sure everybody goes down with us and then the government will bail us out.

johnyj

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Activity: 1988

Merit: 1012

Beyond Imagination

Quote from: notme on June 07, 2013, 06:31:33 AM

Quote from: johnyj on June 07, 2013, 06:28:12 AM

http://www.agweb.com/article/usda_predicts_higher_milk_prices_for_2013/

It's a common sense that empolyees never questioned the profit of the company even their salary is only 1% of the CEO's bonus

Same for money, there is no inflation since those banks pocketed all the newly printed money, for every one dollar of inflation, they pocketed 99, that's the reason even after 4x increase of money supply, there is barely some inflation. Anyway, no one cares as long as their milk price do not rise Wink

A 3% increase? When there is 400% increase in money supply Cool

Stocks, mortgages, and bonds.

Exactly, these are mostly bank's holdings. Print money to support the price of my own assets, is there any business better than that?

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: johnyj on June 07, 2013, 06:28:12 AM

http://www.agweb.com/article/usda_predicts_higher_milk_prices_for_2013/

It's a common sense that empolyees never questioned the profit of the company even their salary is only 1% of the CEO's bonus

Same for money, there is no inflation since those banks pocketed all the newly printed money, for every one dollar of inflation, they pocketed 99, that's the reason even after 4x increase of money supply, there is barely some inflation. Anyway, no one cares as long as their milk price do not rise Wink

A 3% increase? When there is 400% increase in money supply Cool

Stocks, mortgages, and bonds.

johnyj

legendary

Activity: 1988

Merit: 1012

Beyond Imagination

http://www.agweb.com/article/usda_predicts_higher_milk_prices_for_2013/

It's a common sense that empolyees never questioned the profit of the company even their salary is only 1% of the CEO's bonus

Same for money, there is no inflation since those banks pocketed all the newly printed money, for every one dollar of inflation, they pocketed 99, that's the reason even after 4x increase of money supply, there is barely some inflation. Anyway, no one cares as long as their milk price do not rise Wink

A 3% increase? When there is 400% increase in money supply Cool

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: hlynur on June 06, 2013, 09:57:39 PM

It's a common sense that empolyees never questioned the profit of the company even their salary is only 1% of the CEO's bonus

Same for money, there is no inflation since those banks pocketed all the newly printed money, for every one dollar of inflation, they pocketed 99, that's the reason even after 4x increase of money supply, there is barely some inflation. Anyway, no one cares as long as their milk price do not rise Wink

http://www.agweb.com/article/usda_predicts_higher_milk_prices_for_2013/

johnyj

legendary

Activity: 1988

Merit: 1012

Beyond Imagination

It's a common sense that empolyees never questioned the profit of the company even their salary is only 1% of the CEO's bonus

Same for money, there is no inflation since those banks pocketed all the newly printed money, for every one dollar of inflation, they pocketed 99, that's the reason even after 4x increase of money supply, there is barely some inflation. Anyway, no one cares as long as their milk price do not rise Wink

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: keewee on June 06, 2013, 09:40:49 PM

Quote from: kokojie on June 06, 2013, 09:31:44 PM

That's bull, fiat value has not went down that much.

Perhaps not, but it's a lot

when was dollar detached from backup by gold standard?

Nixon declared our default in 1971. Prior to that, the peg was moved several times.

San1ty

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Funny thing is, I'm a European myself! I just in the habit of when talking about Bitcoin valuation I always use dollars :-).

ask

legendary

Activity: 1386

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I am reading those posts an can't believe that people are talking only about US $. There are also other currencies:

http://worldtop10.net/top-10-currencies-in-the-world/

desired_username

hero member

Activity: 886

Merit: 1013

I don't care much about dollars, but experiencing massive inflation on my own currency is not very nice. :S

hlynur

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 501

Quote from: keewee on June 06, 2013, 09:40:49 PM

Quote from: kokojie on June 06, 2013, 09:31:44 PM

That's bull, fiat value has not went down that much.

Perhaps not, but it's a lot

when was dollar detached from backup by gold standard?

keewee

legendary

Activity: 1025

Merit: 1000

Quote from: kokojie on June 06, 2013, 09:31:44 PM

That's bull, fiat value has not went down that much.

Perhaps not, but it's a lot

lucas.sev

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

kokojie

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1003

That's bull, fiat value has not went down that much.

afbitcoins

legendary

Activity: 2101

Merit: 1061

Since the federal reserve was established 100 years ago, the US dollar has devalued by 98%

Odalv

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

Quote from: San1ty on June 05, 2013, 08:35:09 AM

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on June 05, 2013, 08:08:44 AM

...and BTC buys ~1700% more? Does not compute

It buys you 1700% more, but is it overvalued? Let's do a little math:

How much would BTC be worth if there were as many in existence as there are dollars?

Total USD around: 829000000000
Total BTC around: 11247000

829000000000 / 11247000 = 73709

BTC Price in USD: 120

Real BTC Price in USD: 120 / 73709 = 0.0016

Still overvalued? As long as that number is below 1, it's undervalued!

TL;DR: It's not a bubble, It's limited edition!

PS: How do you like my reality distortion field?

$908.6 billion in the M0 (only cache, there is 307,212,123 Americans alive. If you took all the cash and divided it up equally, each person should have about $3,000 in cash)

M1 represents all of the currency in the M0 money supply, plus all of the money held in checking accounts and other checkable accounts, as well as all of the money in travelers' checks. In July 2009, the M1 money supply for U.S. dollars equaled about $1,655.6 billion

All told, anyone looking for all of the U.S. dollars in the world in July 2009 could expect to find around $8.3 trillion in existence.

$8T / 21M = $380k/btc :-)

San1ty

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on June 05, 2013, 08:08:44 AM

...and BTC buys ~1700% more? Does not compute

It buys you 1700% more, but is it overvalued? Let's do a little math:

How much would BTC be worth if there were as many in existence as there are dollars?

Total USD around: 829000000000
Total BTC around: 11247000

829000000000 / 11247000 = 73709

BTC Price in USD: 120

Real BTC Price in USD: 120 / 73709 = 0.0016

Still overvalued? As long as that number is below 1, it's undervalued!

TL;DR: It's not a bubble, It's limited edition!

PS: How do you like my reality distortion field?

RyNinDaCleM

legendary

Activity: 2408

Merit: 1009

Legen -wait for it- dary

Quote from: San1ty on June 05, 2013, 07:47:32 AM

Quote from: Zaih on June 05, 2013, 07:33:35 AM

Quote from: San1ty on June 05, 2013, 07:28:24 AM

Quote from: Zaih on June 05, 2013, 07:33:35 AM

BTC isn't going up, it's FIAT that's going down! Every day your FIAT is worth a little less.

That's weird, I was under the impression that the same Bitcoin can buy 10 times more stuff than a few months before. Also weird that one USD doesn't buy me 10 less.

Must be some FIAT manipulation by Bernanke or something. Cheesy

OR Gold, Silver, stocks, real estate are inflating vs. Bitcoin too. Basically, only Bitcoin in this world is stable and all other assets fluctuate agaist it! Finally we see the truth!

Glad you see the light my friend Wink

!

Poor sarcasm detection xD

Orrr, Great reality dodging skills! (Where is your sense of humor

)

In all seriousness tho:
In 2013 1 dollar buys you 1.3% less when compared with 2012.

...and BTC buys ~1700% more? Does not compute

San1ty

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: San1ty on June 05, 2013, 07:28:24 AM

Quote from: San1ty on June 05, 2013, 07:28:24 AM

BTC isn't going up, it's FIAT that's going down! Every day your FIAT is worth a little less.

That's weird, I was under the impression that the same Bitcoin can buy 10 times more stuff than a few months before. Also weird that one USD doesn't buy me 10 less.

Must be some FIAT manipulation by Bernanke or something. Cheesy

OR Gold, Silver, stocks, real estate are inflating vs. Bitcoin too. Basically, only Bitcoin in this world is stable and all other assets fluctuate agaist it! Finally we see the truth!

Glad you see the light my friend Wink

!

Poor sarcasm detection xD

Orrr, Great reality dodging skills! (Where is your sense of humor

)

In all seriousness tho:
In 2013 1 dollar buys you 1.3% less when compared with 2012.

Zaih

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

BTC isn't going up, it's FIAT that's going down! Every day your FIAT is worth a little less.

That's weird, I was under the impression that the same Bitcoin can buy 10 times more stuff than a few months before. Also weird that one USD doesn't buy me 10 less.

Must be some FIAT manipulation by Bernanke or something. Cheesy

OR Gold, Silver, stocks, real estate are inflating vs. Bitcoin too. Basically, only Bitcoin in this world is stable and all other assets fluctuate agaist it! Finally we see the truth!

Glad you see the light my friend Wink

!

Poor sarcasm detection xD

San1ty

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

BTC isn't going up, it's FIAT that's going down! Every day your FIAT is worth a little less.

That's weird, I was under the impression that the same Bitcoin can buy 10 times more stuff than a few months before. Also weird that one USD doesn't buy me 10 less.

Must be some FIAT manipulation by Bernanke or something. Cheesy

OR Gold, Silver, stocks, real estate are inflating vs. Bitcoin too. Basically, only Bitcoin in this world is stable and all other assets fluctuate agaist it! Finally we see the truth!

Glad you see the light my friend Wink

!

N12

donator

Activity: 1610

Merit: 1010