Title is all wrong. BTC is not an option, nor would it change anything because Greece has no currency problem. It has a budget problem (it's spending too much) and a debt problem (it owes billions to every other European country). Greece may go back to its BS drachma, but as long as it keeps spending more than it's making, not much will change.
The referendum? What's the question? Have the ballot papers been printed yet?
Topic: The Greek Dilemma: Hyper Inflation, Austerity, or Bitcoin? (Read 757 times)
The Greeks still seem to really want to keep the Euro.
Too early to say anything about it. The final decision will be taken after the results of the referendum are out. If the people vote NO, then Greece will be out of the Eurozone. If they vote YES, then the Greeks will continue to use the Euro. Opinion polls are confusing, and therefore I don't want to predict the results. We will have to wait until July 5th, to learn about the outcome.
I laugh with the people talking about Hyper Inflation. lol lol They dont know shit about Keynesian economics. Please entertain us with your posts! lol lol
The Greeks still seem to really want to keep the Euro. They would rather stick with a dreadful system for them, than risk change.
I think if they do leave, and I am not 100% sure they will yet, then they will accept Hyperinflation and austerity and financial ruin, and the masses will still not adopt Bitcoin.
I might be wrong, but they seem fairly backwards financially in Greece. The UK would have defaulted years ago in their situation. A small EU rule change riles the masses, I can only imagine what would happen is major austerity was forced on us by the Germans!
I think if they do leave, and I am not 100% sure they will yet, then they will accept Hyperinflation and austerity and financial ruin, and the masses will still not adopt Bitcoin.
I might be wrong, but they seem fairly backwards financially in Greece. The UK would have defaulted years ago in their situation. A small EU rule change riles the masses, I can only imagine what would happen is major austerity was forced on us by the Germans!
I totally agree and this is what makes me so sad. Greeks were long ago pioneers and visionaries but now they seem to be stuck in a time warp of fear and prefer to stick with the devil they know than to be daring and take a risk. They seem to prefer to lose their sovereignty and dignity as well as all their asset and financial wealth just to be drip fed on life support by the EU and IMF and EU Central bank..For me Dijsselbloem, Dragi and Lagarde should be put on trial for crimes against humanity at the Hague!!!! They will go down in history for genocide.. Future generations of Greeks will look at their forefathers and foremothers in disgust if they vote YES to a CERTAIN DEATH now..
The Greeks still seem to really want to keep the Euro. They would rather stick with a dreadful system for them, than risk change.
I think if they do leave, and I am not 100% sure they will yet, then they will accept Hyperinflation and austerity and financial ruin, and the masses will still not adopt Bitcoin.
I might be wrong, but they seem fairly backwards financially in Greece. The UK would have defaulted years ago in their situation. A small EU rule change riles the masses, I can only imagine what would happen is major austerity was forced on us by the Germans!
I think if they do leave, and I am not 100% sure they will yet, then they will accept Hyperinflation and austerity and financial ruin, and the masses will still not adopt Bitcoin.
I might be wrong, but they seem fairly backwards financially in Greece. The UK would have defaulted years ago in their situation. A small EU rule change riles the masses, I can only imagine what would happen is major austerity was forced on us by the Germans!
They have extremely lazy work schedules and are not nearly as productive as they could be.
A large number of the Greeks depend upon the government for employment, and this is one of the root causes of the problems. These government employees have powerful unions backing them, so it is not possible for the government to impose strict rules on attendance and productivity. Also, the Greek defense spending is very high, and most of it is being used to pay salaries to the officers and the soldiers.
I agree here, pervious Greek governments used to evne put their cat and dog in the civil service but before they can just lay off another load of peeps they will ened find jobs for the new ones..
This is my plan for Greece, if I were in power..
1. Setup my own currency both digital and in paper form, like Bitcoin but even better. Make it an asset backed currency and back it with all public and some private assets..Peeps owning some of this money and declare savings at the end of the year earn an roi on revenues - output..Peeps working to rebuild the country will also earn roi and shares through output/surpus from the cooperatives.
The Government along with the Private sector can setup kibbutz/cooperative like structures all around Greece and get the unemployed to work..
Build cheap eco homes, you can get a lovely eco home 0 energy for around 5k-20k euros build and ready for epeps to move in..Change the whole infrastructure and you get a new thriving economy.. So when people have the basics, like a nice little home to live in, they also are part of the cooperatives, they will work harder and lovingly for themselves and to rebuild their country.. The solution is simple yet I don't see anyone even touching it..They just talk of Euro or Drachma, we need some Greeks to move forward and be pioneers again.
They have extremely lazy work schedules and are not nearly as productive as they could be.
A large number of the Greeks depend upon the government for employment, and this is one of the root causes of the problems. These government employees have powerful unions backing them, so it is not possible for the government to impose strict rules on attendance and productivity. Also, the Greek defense spending is very high, and most of it is being used to pay salaries to the officers and the soldiers.
Or another option for them: get off their lazy buts and get to work. They have extremely lazy work schedules and are not nearly as productive as they could be. They need to do some benchmarking and start applying best practices of other nations to get their industry up to par with modern nations. Their ego is so full because they feel like they already conquered the world so they've just lost motivation to be great again. Perfect example of a smart but lazy complex.
I strongly think that Greece will have the option of accepting an overwhelming inflation and I do not know what will happen in future, maybe austerity.
The never ending tragedy known as the Eurozone is flirting with disaster and the unknown consequences of what would happen if Greece is ejected by brute force or leaves by sheer will from the EU. Interestingly enough, the first Bitcoin ATM has arrived in Athens just in time.
4 options
The clear lesson being learned is the recipe of political and social integration before economic integration makes a terrible meal. A lot of noise and overcomplicated explanations have been put forth as to what will happen.
In reality, there are four options left as to how this can play out:
1. Greece gives in;
2. Greece digs in and demands more concessions, the EU listens and agrees;
3. Greece defaults, which may lead to the EU pulling the plug on commercial banks in Greece and massive bank restrictions which would probably result in capital controls to stop bank runs in Greece and a total collapse in the monetary base;
4. As a result of this, Greece begins printing its own currency in order to ease the massive blow of default which will be extremely painful at first and could lead to hyperinflation.
Bailout proposal
The latest news from Athens is that Prime Minister Alex Tsipiras has announced a referendum to be held on July 5 to accept the bailout proposal given by Greece’s foreign creditors.
This directly contradicts the weekend deadline that is needed to make a viable deal happen and is just more of the same from Greece to buy extra time. Expect fireworks this weekend.
Below is a key timeline of events for Greece over the next month:
Option 1) Give In
As the chart above shows, Greece needs to make a EUR1.6 billion debt repayment to the IMF. Creditors have offered to release EUR15.5 billion of funding, EUR1.8 billion would be available immediately conditional on Greece carrying out more reforms.
To receive this money, the EU is asking Greece to take on more cost cutting and austerity measures, which include the following:
more cuts to pension payments and wages (particularly in the government sector);
get rid of a special benefit paid to low income pensioners (a big sticking point);
The IMF wants deeper spending cuts accompanied with higher tax payments;
As well as a wider Value Added Tax (VAT) base to include medicines, electricity bills, hotels and restaurants.
Meanwhile, Athens wants a concrete commitment to debt relief, which creditors are not offering.
This is a hard pill for Greece to swallow, as Tsipiras ran on a platform of avoiding more cuts and higher taxes at all costs. Accepting this proposal will leave Greece a zombie country not able to control its own economic and financial destiny. However, in reality, it gave this up when it joined a flawed Monetary Union.
Option 2) Dig In
Greece could refuse to accept the terms being offered and ask for a different set of reforms that are less stringent and don’t choke off the entire populace.
Alternatively, they can flat out refuse to accept a deal and hope the EU caves in since it certainly fears the implications of a Greek default i.e. contagion. According to many pundits, a Greek default will be “contained.”
The Guardian has reported that “eurozone finance ministers and Greece’s creditors are to draw up plans for emergency measures to ring-fence the country’s financial system unless the Greek prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, accepts the creditors’ terms for a five-month extension of Athens’s bailout on Saturday.”
Imagining a Greek exit (Grexit) can be contained is a pipedream. This is not about Greece at all but about the other countries that will follow suit if Greece leaves (Spain, Italy, & Portugal). Not too far in the future (September) is an upcoming Spanish election, in which the far left party, Podemos, has a commanding lead.
Spain has suffered a similar fate to Greece since entering the EU and is still in the midst of a deep recession. It would be highly likely that other countries would follow suit so this could play into Greece’s hand in negotiations.
Option 3) Default
In anticipation of the real possibility of default, people have been rushing to withdraw money from Greek Banks.
As the chart below shows, this has been going on for quite a while and not due to the most recent events in Greece. Deposits have fallen to their lowest level in 11 years, dropping by 3.7 billion pounds to 135.7 billion pounds, according to data from the European Central Bank.
Default will have its obvious implications: a complete collapse in economic output, a run on banks, Greek commercial banks being weened from the EU, capital controls being placed on Greece’s citizens as the banks have to deal with implications of default, unemployment rising even higher (see chart below), and complete social chaos.
Inflation will rise dramatically and could potentially spiral into hyperinflation as Greek Central Bank will need to begin printing its own currency, since it will have to drop the Euro.
Note: Those figures imply 1.4 million unemployed (according to official records) out of a population of ~10 million. Unemployment Levels are at their highest levels since 2006, and will increase exponentially in a default.
Greece may choose to swallow this bitter pill as Iceland did, which led to a lot of short term pain, followed by eventual growth and a return to some kind of economic normalcy.
Meanwhile, a run on the banks is already being reported. According to a CNBC article written by Holly Ellyatt and Everett Rosenfeld:
“Hours after the call for a referendum, reports about long lines for cash machines started appearing on social media.”
First Bitcoin ATM in Athens
It will be interesting to see the numbers around of how many Greeks are using the first bitcoin ATM to launch in Athens this past week.
While using bitcoin as a national currency may be a bad idea for Greece, using bitcoin as an alternative to the Euro and the Dollar in fears of a default, might be something some Greeks decide is a reasonable strategy as they panic to access their money and try and decipher what exactly capital controls might mean.
The world will find out soon enough what unfolds. What might not be clear, despite the result, is the aftermath of the decision and its impact on the entire global macro economy. Interesting days ahead.
Original Source : http://cointelegraph.com/news/114683/the-greek-dilemma-hyper-inflation-austerity-or-bitcoin
4 options
The clear lesson being learned is the recipe of political and social integration before economic integration makes a terrible meal. A lot of noise and overcomplicated explanations have been put forth as to what will happen.
In reality, there are four options left as to how this can play out:
1. Greece gives in;
2. Greece digs in and demands more concessions, the EU listens and agrees;
3. Greece defaults, which may lead to the EU pulling the plug on commercial banks in Greece and massive bank restrictions which would probably result in capital controls to stop bank runs in Greece and a total collapse in the monetary base;
4. As a result of this, Greece begins printing its own currency in order to ease the massive blow of default which will be extremely painful at first and could lead to hyperinflation.
Bailout proposal
The latest news from Athens is that Prime Minister Alex Tsipiras has announced a referendum to be held on July 5 to accept the bailout proposal given by Greece’s foreign creditors.
This directly contradicts the weekend deadline that is needed to make a viable deal happen and is just more of the same from Greece to buy extra time. Expect fireworks this weekend.
Below is a key timeline of events for Greece over the next month:
Option 1) Give In
As the chart above shows, Greece needs to make a EUR1.6 billion debt repayment to the IMF. Creditors have offered to release EUR15.5 billion of funding, EUR1.8 billion would be available immediately conditional on Greece carrying out more reforms.
To receive this money, the EU is asking Greece to take on more cost cutting and austerity measures, which include the following:
more cuts to pension payments and wages (particularly in the government sector);
get rid of a special benefit paid to low income pensioners (a big sticking point);
The IMF wants deeper spending cuts accompanied with higher tax payments;
As well as a wider Value Added Tax (VAT) base to include medicines, electricity bills, hotels and restaurants.
Meanwhile, Athens wants a concrete commitment to debt relief, which creditors are not offering.
This is a hard pill for Greece to swallow, as Tsipiras ran on a platform of avoiding more cuts and higher taxes at all costs. Accepting this proposal will leave Greece a zombie country not able to control its own economic and financial destiny. However, in reality, it gave this up when it joined a flawed Monetary Union.
Option 2) Dig In
Greece could refuse to accept the terms being offered and ask for a different set of reforms that are less stringent and don’t choke off the entire populace.
Alternatively, they can flat out refuse to accept a deal and hope the EU caves in since it certainly fears the implications of a Greek default i.e. contagion. According to many pundits, a Greek default will be “contained.”
The Guardian has reported that “eurozone finance ministers and Greece’s creditors are to draw up plans for emergency measures to ring-fence the country’s financial system unless the Greek prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, accepts the creditors’ terms for a five-month extension of Athens’s bailout on Saturday.”
Imagining a Greek exit (Grexit) can be contained is a pipedream. This is not about Greece at all but about the other countries that will follow suit if Greece leaves (Spain, Italy, & Portugal). Not too far in the future (September) is an upcoming Spanish election, in which the far left party, Podemos, has a commanding lead.
Spain has suffered a similar fate to Greece since entering the EU and is still in the midst of a deep recession. It would be highly likely that other countries would follow suit so this could play into Greece’s hand in negotiations.
Option 3) Default
In anticipation of the real possibility of default, people have been rushing to withdraw money from Greek Banks.
As the chart below shows, this has been going on for quite a while and not due to the most recent events in Greece. Deposits have fallen to their lowest level in 11 years, dropping by 3.7 billion pounds to 135.7 billion pounds, according to data from the European Central Bank.
Default will have its obvious implications: a complete collapse in economic output, a run on banks, Greek commercial banks being weened from the EU, capital controls being placed on Greece’s citizens as the banks have to deal with implications of default, unemployment rising even higher (see chart below), and complete social chaos.
Inflation will rise dramatically and could potentially spiral into hyperinflation as Greek Central Bank will need to begin printing its own currency, since it will have to drop the Euro.
Note: Those figures imply 1.4 million unemployed (according to official records) out of a population of ~10 million. Unemployment Levels are at their highest levels since 2006, and will increase exponentially in a default.
Greece may choose to swallow this bitter pill as Iceland did, which led to a lot of short term pain, followed by eventual growth and a return to some kind of economic normalcy.
Meanwhile, a run on the banks is already being reported. According to a CNBC article written by Holly Ellyatt and Everett Rosenfeld:
“Hours after the call for a referendum, reports about long lines for cash machines started appearing on social media.”
First Bitcoin ATM in Athens
It will be interesting to see the numbers around of how many Greeks are using the first bitcoin ATM to launch in Athens this past week.
While using bitcoin as a national currency may be a bad idea for Greece, using bitcoin as an alternative to the Euro and the Dollar in fears of a default, might be something some Greeks decide is a reasonable strategy as they panic to access their money and try and decipher what exactly capital controls might mean.
The world will find out soon enough what unfolds. What might not be clear, despite the result, is the aftermath of the decision and its impact on the entire global macro economy. Interesting days ahead.
Original Source : http://cointelegraph.com/news/114683/the-greek-dilemma-hyper-inflation-austerity-or-bitcoin
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