Topic: The legality of the AML and KYC procedures worldwide. (Read 603 times)
What suggestions do you have?
I propose to mark all exchangers and exchanges depending on the requirements of AML and KYC.
Fiat to crypto and vice versa possible AML or KYC requirements, but not crypto to crypto should be marked yellow.
Any general AML or KYC requirements should be marked red.
Requirements AML or KYC must be before the exchange, but not after the transfer of money or crypto!
Does the exchanger support work through TOR, VPN and other anonymizers marked with green letter V, if not red.
Collects whether the exchanger or exchanger site information about the user's computer (browser, system, hardware fingerprints) (through scripts and other) mark with sign (open eye).
Does the exchanger requires registration, mail or telephone in order to exchange marked with an icon
The contract for the exchange of most exchangers includes a disclaimer of any liability and compliance with all laws of all jurisdictions.
I would like to see the answers of exchangers aggregators, bestchange, kurs.expert
Fiat to crypto and vice versa possible AML or KYC requirements, but not crypto to crypto should be marked yellow.
Any general AML or KYC requirements should be marked red.
Requirements AML or KYC must be before the exchange, but not after the transfer of money or crypto!
Does the exchanger support work through TOR, VPN and other anonymizers marked with green letter V, if not red.
Collects whether the exchanger or exchanger site information about the user's computer (browser, system, hardware fingerprints) (through scripts and other) mark with sign (open eye).
Does the exchanger requires registration, mail or telephone in order to exchange marked with an icon
The contract for the exchange of most exchangers includes a disclaimer of any liability and compliance with all laws of all jurisdictions.
I would like to see the answers of exchangers aggregators, bestchange, kurs.expert
Sooner or later, the entire crypt will become dirty (gray) and cannot be replaced as fiat currency.
I don't think crypto users who obey AML and KYC rules think dirty, it's people with weak minds who think about AML and KYC procedures are dirty, that's weak and lay thinking.Today is not the era of the 70s, now the era of sophisticated technology, digital/crypto currency has become a popular currency in the world, although it cannot be made into fiat or paper money, Crypto and digital currency market laws cannot use a global recession mechanism or players are worried about the market, unlike fiat.
If you think AML and KYC procedures are dirty, why don't you think about companies and other things that lure big profits on investment by depositing fiat money and big profits in kyc procedures in the end scams, do you think about that where investing with fiat can also disappear into gray.
My advice, don't think what you don't know in the future, think about something that can make you grow today like people who are successful in crypto do, people think profit but you only think what you don't know.
What are you so afraid of?
I don't think the AML and KYC procedures themselves are dirty, I think they (AML and KYC) are totally illegal against ordinary people(but not companies).
As far as the average Joe is concerned, it's a presumption of guilt for an undetermined crime.
If you can't prove you are innocent, you will be guilty by default.
That is, if the police arrest me and demand to prove legal ownership of my pants, if I can't prove it I could be accused of robbing an unknown person from whom I took the pants.
There is no such thing as gray, black, white, stinky and other money, crypto, property, rights.
This is invented to create suspicion in society but with no real evidence.
So that one can accuse anyone of any crime, while the accuser himself bears no real criminal responsibility.
I advise you (no offense) to read the history of the world (including financial and legal) not on the Internet, and in books printed no later than 1980.
You will find a lot of amazing things that are not talked about today.
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We have no choice when it comes to KYC because it all comes down to the ownership of fiat money. See, according to the government fiat money belongs to them, not to you. You're just a user who was allowed to exchange it by the government, but the money isn't yours, it's still theirs!
You can see it by the way they manipulate money. They can print it, but you will be put in jail if you try. If they decide they can freeze your accounts and stop you from using it. They can also take it from you which is called seizing and you won't have it anymore. They can change the value of fiat money and choose not to allow you to take it abroad. It's their money.
You use it and want to exchange crypto into it, but they require AML rules to be obeyed and you don't have a choice between AML or no AML. Your only choice is between fiat money with AML or no fiat money at all. The only thing they cannot enforce is the use of fiat. If you choose to use some other form of payment and somebody else accepts it, they cannot make you stop or enforce AML on that form of payment.
You can see it by the way they manipulate money. They can print it, but you will be put in jail if you try. If they decide they can freeze your accounts and stop you from using it. They can also take it from you which is called seizing and you won't have it anymore. They can change the value of fiat money and choose not to allow you to take it abroad. It's their money.
You use it and want to exchange crypto into it, but they require AML rules to be obeyed and you don't have a choice between AML or no AML. Your only choice is between fiat money with AML or no fiat money at all. The only thing they cannot enforce is the use of fiat. If you choose to use some other form of payment and somebody else accepts it, they cannot make you stop or enforce AML on that form of payment.
I completely agree with you.
Fiat money is a credit obligation of the state, the rules of which they can change at their discretion unilaterally.
This has been known for over five hundred years, since Medici 1457.
Real money can only be made of gold or silver.
AML or KYC rules are legalized (ratified) by the parliament of a country (jurisdiction)
Recommendations (exactly recommendations) of FATF, which includes 27 countries.
There are more than 250 countries on planet Earth.
I welcome the exchange of crypto for property on an international scale, and the exclusion of fully fiat currency from circulation.
We have no choice when it comes to KYC because it all comes down to the ownership of fiat money. See, according to the government fiat money belongs to them, not to you. You're just a user who was allowed to exchange it by the government, but the money isn't yours, it's still theirs!
You can see it by the way they manipulate money. They can print it, but you will be put in jail if you try. If they decide they can freeze your accounts and stop you from using it. They can also take it from you which is called seizing and you won't have it anymore. They can change the value of fiat money and choose not to allow you to take it abroad. It's their money.
You use it and want to exchange crypto into it, but they require AML rules to be obeyed and you don't have a choice between AML or no AML. Your only choice is between fiat money with AML or no fiat money at all. The only thing they cannot enforce is the use of fiat. If you choose to use some other form of payment and somebody else accepts it, they cannot make you stop or enforce AML on that form of payment.
You can see it by the way they manipulate money. They can print it, but you will be put in jail if you try. If they decide they can freeze your accounts and stop you from using it. They can also take it from you which is called seizing and you won't have it anymore. They can change the value of fiat money and choose not to allow you to take it abroad. It's their money.
You use it and want to exchange crypto into it, but they require AML rules to be obeyed and you don't have a choice between AML or no AML. Your only choice is between fiat money with AML or no fiat money at all. The only thing they cannot enforce is the use of fiat. If you choose to use some other form of payment and somebody else accepts it, they cannot make you stop or enforce AML on that form of payment.
Sooner or later, the entire crypt will become dirty (gray) and cannot be replaced as fiat currency.
I don't think crypto users who obey AML and KYC rules think dirty, it's people with weak minds who think about AML and KYC procedures are dirty, that's weak and lay thinking.Today is not the era of the 70s, now the era of sophisticated technology, digital/crypto currency has become a popular currency in the world, although it cannot be made into fiat or paper money, Crypto and digital currency market laws cannot use a global recession mechanism or players are worried about the market, unlike fiat.
If you think AML and KYC procedures are dirty, why don't you think about companies and other things that lure big profits on investment by depositing fiat money and big profits in kyc procedures in the end scams, do you think about that where investing with fiat can also disappear into gray.
My advice, don't think what you don't know in the future, think about something that can make you grow today like people who are successful in crypto do, people think profit but you only think what you don't know.
I do not think that everyone who describes altcoins as dirty coins/shitcoins then (dirty crypt, pure crypt, gray crypt) means them in terms of economic or financial terms, meaning that this description is due to poor programming and based on quick adjustments to the Bitcoin protocol and not real changes in it.
In other words, the majority do not call Monero, Ethereum, and other unique models a dirty coins and not because of their financial nature.
Financially, all currencies are equal, those that come from drug dealing and selling ice cream.
In other words, the majority do not call Monero, Ethereum, and other unique models a dirty coins and not because of their financial nature.
Financially, all currencies are equal, those that come from drug dealing and selling ice cream.
I suggested sorting exchangers where AML or KYC is required from crypt to crypt, and where there are no AML or KYC requirements from crypt to crypt.
Fiat for crypt exchange.
Exchange of crypt for fiat.
Fiat for crypt exchange.
Exchange of crypt for fiat.
I propose to mark all exchangers who require or may require AML or KYC as possible fraudsters!
We can do that, but then we will be left with basically no centralized exchanges; at least none of the big established ones.
The problem is that KYC/AML is not imposed directly for crypto. It's imposed in order to access fiat. The fact the exchanges tend to overdo that "just for sure" is another (sad) story.
Tagging those exchanges as possible fraudsters is not a good way to go. The normal way is to tag a scammer if it's proven to be a scammer.
What we can do is to educate people don't treat lightly the KYC requirements and go for decentralized non-KYC exchanges.
And this is an already ongoing process.
I propose to mark all exchangers who require or may require AML or KYC as possible fraudsters!
The fight against money laundering is a big deception and a reason for total financial and political control of people.
Who are the real scammers and bandits ---
It is worth reading the history of 2006-2008, the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers bank, the debt of Greece, the mortgage crisis in the United States.
Bitcoin has no jurisdiction - the fiat currency always has, the property, the rights always have.
The rules of addition and subtraction, the laws of physics, the laws of nature in general, work on the planet the same for all people (whether they want it or not).
Social-herd schizophrenia affects people.
Who believes that the laws of the state are a given from above - you need to read the history of the states of Europe 1910-1950 (Italy, Germany) and how it ended.
The fight against money laundering is a big deception and a reason for total financial and political control of people.
Who are the real scammers and bandits ---
It is worth reading the history of 2006-2008, the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers bank, the debt of Greece, the mortgage crisis in the United States.
Bitcoin has no jurisdiction - the fiat currency always has, the property, the rights always have.
The rules of addition and subtraction, the laws of physics, the laws of nature in general, work on the planet the same for all people (whether they want it or not).
Social-herd schizophrenia affects people.
Who believes that the laws of the state are a given from above - you need to read the history of the states of Europe 1910-1950 (Italy, Germany) and how it ended.
Most countries in the world fund terrorism (openly or covertly).
No criminal gang can operate without the support of local authorities.
If people are not aware of it, they are very naive.
No criminal gang can operate without the support of local authorities.
If people are not aware of it, they are very naive.
In short, this can be explained by the fact that people have not yet rid of the banking system culture and do not appreciate well the importance that the blockchain system gives.
Many users do not feel safe unless there is a third party in charge of protecting their savings, and this explains the success of many platforms in providing wallet service. These same factors contribute to making identity documentation and anti-money laundering policies normal procedures that the user accepts without even asking about their legitimacy .
Many users do not feel safe unless there is a third party in charge of protecting their savings, and this explains the success of many platforms in providing wallet service. These same factors contribute to making identity documentation and anti-money laundering policies normal procedures that the user accepts without even asking about their legitimacy .
I agree with you on this point:
the government always want to take the control of it
The government wants to control everything, that's perfectly understandable.
But I don't agree with you on this point:
thats KYC and AML come from. what the gov want is try to avoid like terrorism funding drug and anything that can to lead at bad way.
This is not the reason why KYC and AML is imposed by the government but because the government wants to track all the legal and illegal transactions, in short the government doesn't want anything to get out of its grip, in my opinion they want to track even the legal transactions but they can't say that in front of the people and the press so they say They want to fight money laundering, drugs and terrorism, but in reality they are track the transactions of merchants, politicians and even ordinary citizens.
KYC or dont do kyc is choice and i think there is no clean crypto what satoshi did make bitcoin is tool againt the fiat and privacy and become popular as the popular rise the government always want to take the control of it thats KYC and AML come from. what the gov want is try to avoid like terrorism funding drug and anything that can to lead at bad way.
Today, settlement agreements and the concept of ownership are very relative. In any country, on the basis of sanctions, any property of citizens of other countries can be blocked. And if you work with cryptocurrencies, then it is better to avoid AML and KYC procedures.
Are you on the right side of what law?
A law that is binding on everyone (including the state that adopted it).
Or the law is only for the "average Joe".
You yourself wrote that the state controls and protects the shadow (illegal) turnover of money and goods.
Then the adoption of laws such as KYC, AML is a complete profanation of the law and the creation of total control over the "average Joe".
Over the past 30-50 years, a huge number of laws have been adopted to combat crime, this only led to the development of a criminal business and the total control of ordinary, thorough citizens.
If you're white and fluffy it doesn't mean the police won't knock on your door tomorrow.
I am not surprised that more and more people are using the darknet not to buy illegal things and services, but to communicate for fear of the state (but its presence is also great there).
The creation of a micronation has already been unsuccessful many times.
A micronation that is independent must have a large arsenal of nuclear weapons and weapons delivery vehicles around the world.
Only then will she have the right to exist in the modern world.
A law that is binding on everyone (including the state that adopted it).
Or the law is only for the "average Joe".
You yourself wrote that the state controls and protects the shadow (illegal) turnover of money and goods.
Then the adoption of laws such as KYC, AML is a complete profanation of the law and the creation of total control over the "average Joe".
Over the past 30-50 years, a huge number of laws have been adopted to combat crime, this only led to the development of a criminal business and the total control of ordinary, thorough citizens.
If you're white and fluffy it doesn't mean the police won't knock on your door tomorrow.
I am not surprised that more and more people are using the darknet not to buy illegal things and services, but to communicate for fear of the state (but its presence is also great there).
The creation of a micronation has already been unsuccessful many times.
A micronation that is independent must have a large arsenal of nuclear weapons and weapons delivery vehicles around the world.
Only then will she have the right to exist in the modern world.
I don't think we have a choice. - You are very much mistaken, there is always a choice, with any jurisdictions, laws.
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I created this topic so that the "average Joe" understands that when he honestly makes money, pays taxes on time, complies with all laws and rules, he can lose all his savings absolutely legally at any time.
The "average Joe" will not be able to sue the state and will not be able to protect his savings from the state.
I think we need to tell people more about free technology: DEX, Mixers, Coinjoins and many others.
_______________________________________________________________________________ ______________
I created this topic so that the "average Joe" understands that when he honestly makes money, pays taxes on time, complies with all laws and rules, he can lose all his savings absolutely legally at any time.
The "average Joe" will not be able to sue the state and will not be able to protect his savings from the state.
I think we need to tell people more about free technology: DEX, Mixers, Coinjoins and many others.
I wouldn't disagree! I am an "average joe" who likes to pay taxes on time and with full diligence. If that makes me an "Average Joe", I am happy with it! At least I am on the right side with the law and not against it!
These DEC, Mixers and Coinjoins are already available and many people are making use of their services to hide the trail of the money or to hide the ownership etc. But there are people out there, who likes to do their taxes because they live under the protection of the state. That's how the government runs all over the world.
What alternative do you have? Create a micronation? Otherwise, I don't see a complete freedom from state is happening!
I don't think we have a choice. - You are very much mistaken, there is always a choice, with any jurisdictions, laws.
_______________________________________________________________________________ ______________
I created this topic so that the "average Joe" understands that when he honestly makes money, pays taxes on time, complies with all laws and rules, he can lose all his savings absolutely legally at any time.
The "average Joe" will not be able to sue the state and will not be able to protect his savings from the state.
I think we need to tell people more about free technology: DEX, Mixers, Coinjoins and many others.
_______________________________________________________________________________ ______________
I created this topic so that the "average Joe" understands that when he honestly makes money, pays taxes on time, complies with all laws and rules, he can lose all his savings absolutely legally at any time.
The "average Joe" will not be able to sue the state and will not be able to protect his savings from the state.
I think we need to tell people more about free technology: DEX, Mixers, Coinjoins and many others.
Why people obey the imposed rules of the game (dirty crypt, pure crypt, gray crypt).
After all, there are no dirty numbers (dirty multiplication table), dirty letters of the alphabet and other things.
Sooner or later, the entire crypt will become dirty (gray) and cannot be replaced as fiat currency.
Maybe state laundries will appear, having passed through them the crypt will become (clean).
This is a huge business for manipulating the opinion of people and crypts.
After all, there are no dirty numbers (dirty multiplication table), dirty letters of the alphabet and other things.
Sooner or later, the entire crypt will become dirty (gray) and cannot be replaced as fiat currency.
Maybe state laundries will appear, having passed through them the crypt will become (clean).
This is a huge business for manipulating the opinion of people and crypts.
Do you want to propose an alternative?
I don't think we have a choice. Majority of the exchanges are centralized and if they choose to block grey/dirty cryptos, they can do it and report to the authorities. That's what the blockchain technology is! You can have a complete track of payments through the public ledger and bifurcate the coins based on its previous history.
DEXs are definitely here, mixers are here, coinjoins are here to make your crypto look clean. People can make use of those services.
As far as I understand it, if you make a business over holding someone elses funds while they trade using your platform, then you are legally obliged to take all risks that come from illegal actions like funding dictators, tax evasion or laundering money.
So obviously, if you pose a legal risk to exchanges then they want to know how to find you if problems should arise.
You on the other hand, also get a guarantee that the exchange will be held liable for those crimes, not you.
So fair or not fair, unless you buy your coin directly from people and store your coin in your own wallet, then all legal responsibility is on you and you need to do KYC.
Personally, I am not a fan of KYC.
If you want to daytrade your coins you don't need an exchange. You can use other blockchains which use decentralised exchanges that are completely free of any legal liability since nobody else is holding your funds for you.
So obviously, if you pose a legal risk to exchanges then they want to know how to find you if problems should arise.
You on the other hand, also get a guarantee that the exchange will be held liable for those crimes, not you.
So fair or not fair, unless you buy your coin directly from people and store your coin in your own wallet, then all legal responsibility is on you and you need to do KYC.
Personally, I am not a fan of KYC.
If you want to daytrade your coins you don't need an exchange. You can use other blockchains which use decentralised exchanges that are completely free of any legal liability since nobody else is holding your funds for you.
The problem is that official exchanges do not have legally registered crypto wallets.
The user "average Joe" will not be able to prove in court his deal on the exchange, the exchanger.
The user does not have legally significant evidence against the exchange, the exchanger, only screenshots of correspondence, transactions of transfers from his wallet, which are easy to fake.
All this if the exchange are in the same jurisdiction with the user, if they are in different jurisdictions, then it is either impossible to prove that at all.
So far, there are no generally accepted legal norms and rules in international law.
There are only treaties between some countries.
Exchanges very often abuse the procedures of the KYC and AML.
Conditionally pure bitcoins derived from one exchange, the exchanger can be easily blocked on another exchange by law.
You, as an average user, cannot prove that this is in court.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
As far as I understand it, if you make a business over holding someone elses funds while they trade using your platform, then you are legally obliged to take all risks that come from illegal actions like funding dictators, tax evasion or laundering money.
So obviously, if you pose a legal risk to exchanges then they want to know how to find you if problems should arise.
You on the other hand, also get a guarantee that those responsible will be held liable for those crimes, not you.
So fair or not fair, unless you buy your coin directly from people and store your coin in your own wallet, then all legal responsibility is on you and you need to do KYC.
Personally, I am not a fan of KYC.
If you want to daytrade your coins you don't need an exchange. You can use other blockchains which use decentralised exchanges that are completely free of any legal liability since nobody else is holding your funds for you.
So obviously, if you pose a legal risk to exchanges then they want to know how to find you if problems should arise.
You on the other hand, also get a guarantee that those responsible will be held liable for those crimes, not you.
So fair or not fair, unless you buy your coin directly from people and store your coin in your own wallet, then all legal responsibility is on you and you need to do KYC.
Personally, I am not a fan of KYC.
If you want to daytrade your coins you don't need an exchange. You can use other blockchains which use decentralised exchanges that are completely free of any legal liability since nobody else is holding your funds for you.
I didn't really ask about what you wrote.
The financial regulator always wants complete (total) control over your property and income, but the regulator itself must be legal.
If cryptocurrency has signs of use in illegal operations, it can be arrested legally, that is, with subsequent investigation by the police and the accusation of participants in court.
But if the bandit took a taxi, dined in a pizza shop, rented a hotel room and was then caught and charged with a crime, then this does not mean that it is necessary to arrest the accounts of a taxi company, pizza shop, hotel and other organizations.
The regulator should not be a bandit himself.
Crypt was made as unconditional property on the basis of the laws of nature as mathematics (cryptography).
Why people do not look for other ways of exchange based on (proof without disclosure) and other mathematical independent ways of exchange.
The financial regulator always wants complete (total) control over your property and income, but the regulator itself must be legal.
If cryptocurrency has signs of use in illegal operations, it can be arrested legally, that is, with subsequent investigation by the police and the accusation of participants in court.
But if the bandit took a taxi, dined in a pizza shop, rented a hotel room and was then caught and charged with a crime, then this does not mean that it is necessary to arrest the accounts of a taxi company, pizza shop, hotel and other organizations.
The regulator should not be a bandit himself.
Crypt was made as unconditional property on the basis of the laws of nature as mathematics (cryptography).
Why people do not look for other ways of exchange based on (proof without disclosure) and other mathematical independent ways of exchange.
Why the people obey to imposed rules?Because the vast majority of them don't want the police to knock on their doors. 
I agree that there are no "dirty coins" by definition,but the lazy bureaucrats want to find a way to track down all illegal transactions and catch the criminals.
I can't agree that all cryptocurrencies will become "dirty/gray" sooner or later.
Not all cryptocurrency users are involved into illegal activities.The criminals are mostly using privacy coins(monero) and BTC mixers.The "average Joe",who is trading crypto simply doesn't use monero or BTC mixers,because there's no reason for him to do so.He doesn't have anything to hide,so there's no reason for the authorities to confiscate his coins and put him in prison.
I agree that there are no "dirty coins" by definition,but the lazy bureaucrats want to find a way to track down all illegal transactions and catch the criminals.
I can't agree that all cryptocurrencies will become "dirty/gray" sooner or later.
Not all cryptocurrency users are involved into illegal activities.The criminals are mostly using privacy coins(monero) and BTC mixers.The "average Joe",who is trading crypto simply doesn't use monero or BTC mixers,because there's no reason for him to do so.He doesn't have anything to hide,so there's no reason for the authorities to confiscate his coins and put him in prison.
Why people obey the imposed rules of the game (dirty crypt, pure crypt, gray crypt).
After all, there are no dirty numbers (dirty multiplication table), dirty letters of the alphabet and other things.
Sooner or later, the entire crypt will become dirty (gray) and cannot be replaced as fiat currency.
Maybe state laundries will appear, having passed through them the crypt will become (clean).
This is a huge business for manipulating the opinion of people and crypts.
After all, there are no dirty numbers (dirty multiplication table), dirty letters of the alphabet and other things.
Sooner or later, the entire crypt will become dirty (gray) and cannot be replaced as fiat currency.
Maybe state laundries will appear, having passed through them the crypt will become (clean).
This is a huge business for manipulating the opinion of people and crypts.
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