The Mt Gox coin sales | Bitcointalksearch.org

rodalutor

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Quote from: Bytem3 on September 26, 2018, 03:51:52 AM

Mt. Gox bankruptcy trustee said that he sold $230 Million worth of BTC and BCH between March and June, this is still haunting us

https://coincodex.com/article/2395/mt-gox-bankruptcy-trustee-says-he-sold-230-million-worth-of-btc-and-bch-between-march-and-june/

This should not really come as news to anyone now, just confirmation of what we already knew. I don't think it's looming over us anymore at least until a further decision is taken as what to do with all of the remaining bitcoin. I believe that there won't be any definitive news with that for a while.

Bytem3

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Mt. Gox bankruptcy trustee said that he sold $230 Million worth of BTC and BCH between March and June, this is still haunting us

https://coincodex.com/article/2395/mt-gox-bankruptcy-trustee-says-he-sold-230-million-worth-of-btc-and-bch-between-march-and-june/

stayeduptolate

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Quote from: alyssa85 on March 08, 2018, 09:00:08 AM

According to the following article, the Trustee has another loads more bitcoins to sell:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-07/bitcoin-s-tokyo-whale-sold-400-million-and-he-s-not-done-yet

Quote

Kobayashi, who’s liquidating the tokens on behalf of Mt. Gox creditors, has another $1.9 billion to offload

I wish someone would explain to him that he can auction the coins the way the US Marshalls do, instead of going on an exchange and tanking the price.

Then this would mean that the price can further sink to the bottom as more coin selling would lead to a bearish market and that would lead to a reduced confidence on bitcoin market and the price would fall.
Also he should absolutely sell the coins like US Marshalls do as it would not take it's toll on the market price and then he would also get much more value for money for his coins.

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: gentlemand on March 08, 2018, 11:02:52 AM

Quote from: Tzupy on March 08, 2018, 10:55:21 AM

As for the missing fiat, it's still a mystery...

How?

It must've been in clearly nominated Gox accounts. It must've been sent somewhere by someone through a bank that could follow it.

It's really strange. Any operating exchange must have a high proportion of its holdings in fiat.

The strangest thing of all is how no one ever seems to talk about it, the victims or the people doing the bankruptcy. It's like a total non subject. Never have I seen anyone anywhere complain about the loss of their JPY or whatever.

Yeah it's very weird that they were able to find 200,000 BTC but all the fiat from the exchange is missing?

Don't understimate the power of offshore accounts tho, the experienced on that field can create really complicated schemes that are incredibly hard to trace.

I think the remaining coins must have been mixed so well that it will be impossible for them to ever show up again. If someone gets caught then it will be from trying to launder it, because what's the point of being a $billionaire if you can only buy snacks with it?

gentlemand

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Quote from: Tzupy on March 08, 2018, 10:55:21 AM

As for the missing fiat, it's still a mystery...

How?

It must've been in clearly nominated Gox accounts. It must've been sent somewhere by someone through a bank that could follow it.

It's really strange. Any operating exchange must have a high proportion of its holdings in fiat.

The strangest thing of all is how no one ever seems to talk about it, the victims or the people doing the bankruptcy. It's like a total non subject. Never have I seen anyone anywhere complain about the loss of their JPY or whatever.

Tzupy

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Quote from: alyssa85 on March 08, 2018, 08:23:58 AM

As everyone now knows, the Trustee of the Mt Gox coins sold 6000 BTC in December, Jan and Feb. See

https://www.trustnodes.com/2018/03/07/mt-gox-trustee-sold-half-billion-dollars-worth-bitcoin-bitcoin-cash

Someone on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/82ryay/ive_mapped_the_exact_time_when_money_was/) mapped the dates the coins were sold, and it really does look like the MtGox Trustee is responsible for the price coming down from the all time high:

Correction: that map points to the transfer dates, but the precise sale numbers (amount, price, time) are not publicly known yet. It's up to the Trustee or the Court to disclose the information.

Tzupy

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Quote from: gentlemand on March 08, 2018, 10:40:43 AM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 08, 2018, 10:35:00 AM

From what I understand he may be bail after the creditors get paid he's a free man with no charges, AND he will get the money, im not sure if in japanese yens or in bitcoins.. I assume it will be in JPY. Some of the other people involved in MtGox will also get the money, but Karpeles owned 88%... he will become one of the biggest whales in bitcoin.

And originally there were 850,000 BTC stolen and only 200k are being talked about, so there are a lot of BTC that were never recovered from what I understand, so I wonder if Karpeles owns these too somewhere.

I was under the impression that that Russian bloke from BTC-e had a large amount of it away. He's still languishing somewhere being squabbled over who gets to try him.

Throughout all of this I still don't understand why little to no mention has been made of Gox's fiat. There must have been a very substantial amount of it. Where did it go and who has it?

Vinnik is supposed to have at least laundered, if not stolen himself, the missing MtGox coins. As for the missing fiat, it's still a mystery...
https://blog.magicaltux.net/article/Alexander-Vinnik-indictment

Torque

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gentlemand

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 08, 2018, 10:35:00 AM

From what I understand he may be bail after the creditors get paid he's a free man with no charges, AND he will get the money, im not sure if in japanese yens or in bitcoins.. I assume it will be in JPY. Some of the other people involved in MtGox will also get the money, but Karpeles owned 88%... he will become one of the biggest whales in bitcoin.

And originally there were 850,000 BTC stolen and only 200k are being talked about, so there are a lot of BTC that were never recovered from what I understand, so I wonder if Karpeles owns these too somewhere.

I was under the impression that that Russian bloke from BTC-e had a large amount of it away. He's still languishing somewhere being squabbled over who gets to try him.

Throughout all of this I still don't understand why little to no mention has been made of Gox's fiat. There must have been a very substantial amount of it. Where did it go and who has it?

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: gentlemand on March 08, 2018, 10:03:05 AM

Quote from: fabiorem on March 08, 2018, 09:56:18 AM

Governments will still have thousands of bitcoins after the cash is distributed. They will be able to crash the price at any time.

The Japanese government has none of these coins. The Japanese court has them in its custody on behalf of creditors.

Japan is not a banana republic. The government cannot help itself to these coins. The government has sod all to do with these coins and will never have anything to do with them. Processes will be followed, even if they're crappy ones.

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 08, 2018, 10:01:27 AM

I wonder how is it possible that Karpeles is going to get any coins at all after such a scam. He is going to be a billionaire and free of any jail sentences, amazing. So now Karpeles could crash the market after the thing ends.

Is he not out on bail? I wasn't aware that his actual trial had taken place yet. I could be wrong.

From what I understand he may be bail after the creditors get paid he's a free man with no charges, AND he will get the money, im not sure if in japanese yens or in bitcoins.. I assume it will be in JPY. Some of the other people involved in MtGox will also get the money, but Karpeles owned 88%... he will become one of the biggest whales in bitcoin.

And originally there were 850,000 BTC stolen and only 200k are being talked about, so there are a lot of BTC that were never recovered from what I understand, so I wonder if Karpeles owns these too somewhere.

Denker

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He should have sold over the counter.
Well at least now the world knows who sold the coins. And we also know there are plenty left to sell if he has to.
I'm pretty sure some institutionals will offer him some nice OTC deals now.
If he rejects then he is short. Grin

Ok I know he isn't allowed to speculate in that case, but bis buddies are. Of course he would get a nice cut.

fabiorem

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 08, 2018, 10:01:27 AM

I know that the governments are going to settle it in cash which is unfair since BTC is now x10 of what it was during the Goxing.

What % will governments get?

Shareholders will get whatever amount is needed in order to cover their equivalent value back in the day, which is not that much, given that the price was cheaper.

What I don't know is if Karpeles will get it cash settled as well or will get the actual bitcoins back. I've read that Karpeles will get the actual coins and he will get a ton, more than 100k BTC...

I wonder how is it possible that Karpeles is going to get any coins at all after such a scam. He is going to be a billionaire and free of any jail sentences, amazing. So now Karpeles could crash the market after the thing ends.

And then the % for the government which is not clear to me.

Why would he receive all these coins when the users are settled in cash?

He is probably going to receive in cash as well.

Unless there's some manipulation going on, and he dump the coins following instructions from governments, taking some part of the profits for himself. They can very well do that.

gentlemand

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Quote from: fabiorem on March 08, 2018, 09:56:18 AM

Governments will still have thousands of bitcoins after the cash is distributed. They will be able to crash the price at any time.

The Japanese government has none of these coins. The Japanese court has them in its custody on behalf of creditors.

Japan is not a banana republic. The government cannot help itself to these coins. The government has sod all to do with these coins and will never have anything to do with them. Processes will be followed, even if they're crappy ones.

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 08, 2018, 10:01:27 AM

I wonder how is it possible that Karpeles is going to get any coins at all after such a scam. He is going to be a billionaire and free of any jail sentences, amazing. So now Karpeles could crash the market after the thing ends.

Is he not out on bail? I wasn't aware that his actual trial had taken place yet. I could be wrong.

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: fabiorem on March 08, 2018, 09:56:18 AM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 08, 2018, 09:40:22 AM

Apparently the trustee is also selling BCash, so I assume they are going to give them their BCash equivalents too.

He is not giving back the coins to the users. The issue is being settled in cash. Worse still, the price was settled at the time the "hack" happened, which will leave the users at a loss.

Governments will still have thousands of bitcoins after the cash is distributed. They will be able to crash the price at any time.

I know that the governments are going to settle it in cash which is unfair since BTC is now x10 of what it was during the Goxing.

What % will governments get?

Shareholders will get whatever amount is needed in order to cover their equivalent value back in the day, which is not that much, given that the price was cheaper.

What I don't know is if Karpeles will get it cash settled as well or will get the actual bitcoins back. I've read that Karpeles will get the actual coins and he will get a ton, more than 100k BTC...

I wonder how is it possible that Karpeles is going to get any coins at all after such a scam. He is going to be a billionaire and free of any jail sentences, amazing. So now Karpeles could crash the market after the thing ends.

And then the % for the government which is not clear to me.

fabiorem

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 08, 2018, 09:40:22 AM

Apparently the trustee is also selling BCash, so I assume they are going to give them their BCash equivalents too.

He is not giving back the coins to the users. The issue is being settled in cash. Worse still, the price was settled at the time the "hack" happened, which will leave the users at a loss.

Governments will still have thousands of bitcoins after the cash is distributed. They will be able to crash the price at any time.

tomahawk9

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Quote from: alyssa85 on March 08, 2018, 09:00:08 AM

I wish someone would explain to him that he can auction the coins the way the US Marshalls do, instead of going on an exchange and tanking the price.

Tha would imply that the bankruptcy law in Japan works the same as the U.S. bankruptcy law (i'm no expert on this matter ). But I don't think the trustee is going to sell the remaining BTC and crash the market, he did his job, the amount of BTC (assets) sold should cover liability to creditors, and since they've all been paid off, I believe the rest of the funds (around 180k BTC or a bit less) will be distributed among the mtgox shareholders (Mark Karpeles, CEO of Tibanne which owns 88% of mtgox, and some other person who owns the remaining 12%), so it's up to these shareholders if they want to tank the price by using exchanges, again.

gentlemand

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Quote from: alyssa85 on March 08, 2018, 09:00:08 AM

I wish someone would explain to him that he can auction the coins the way the US Marshalls do, instead of going on an exchange and tanking the price.

I find this beyond incomprehensible. OTC traders have made offers to facilitate the sale. Jesse Powell, who is part of the process, told them he could arrange an auction for the coins and they didn't pay any attention. He didn't even find out about the sales until afterwards.

There's got to be something seriously strange going on here. It does not make any sense whatsoever.

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: leea-1334 on March 08, 2018, 08:50:48 AM

I did not know that. Will the trustee be distributing the returns to all holders based on the amount of Bitcoins they owned and lost at the time? Or are these returns adjusted for the price? December was an awesome time to sell, but I doubt 6,000 BTC is really the cause for the dropping price (I mean, if he sold 6k, then other people bought 6k BTC, right?). And all those people getting their claims back, I am sure they would be re-entering the market after waiting for so long.

Anybody knows how much Roger Ver is claiming? I believe he lost quite a bit at Mt Gox.

There was a list of MtGox holders and Roger Ver was one of the top holders. Apparently the trustee is also selling BCash, so I assume they are going to give them their BCash equivalents too. I guess they didn't bother with the rest of the coins, but big bitcoin holders will be lossing a lot of money by not getting the rest of the forks too.

If I were to guess, im sure not going into an auction was done in purpose, and this was an attack by governments to crush the price. I don't believe in such amateurism.

alyssa85

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According to the following article, the Trustee has another loads more bitcoins to sell:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-07/bitcoin-s-tokyo-whale-sold-400-million-and-he-s-not-done-yet

Quote

Kobayashi, who’s liquidating the tokens on behalf of Mt. Gox creditors, has another $1.9 billion to offload

I wish someone would explain to him that he can auction the coins the way the US Marshalls do, instead of going on an exchange and tanking the price.

leea-1334

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I did not know that. Will the trustee be distributing the returns to all holders based on the amount of Bitcoins they owned and lost at the time? Or are these returns adjusted for the price? December was an awesome time to sell, but I doubt 6,000 BTC is really the cause for the dropping price (I mean, if he sold 6k, then other people bought 6k BTC, right?). And all those people getting their claims back, I am sure they would be re-entering the market after waiting for so long.

Anybody knows how much Roger Ver is claiming? I believe he lost quite a bit at Mt Gox.

alyssa85

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As everyone now knows, the Trustee of the Mt Gox coins sold 6000 BTC in December, Jan and Feb. See

https://www.trustnodes.com/2018/03/07/mt-gox-trustee-sold-half-billion-dollars-worth-bitcoin-bitcoin-cash

Someone on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/82ryay/ive_mapped_the_exact_time_when_money_was/) mapped the dates the coins were sold, and it really does look like the MtGox Trustee is responsible for the price coming down from the all time high:

Topic: The Mt Gox coin sales (Read 301 times)