Author

Topic: The SEC IS Investigating Bitcoin Securities Exchanges (Read 9932 times)

full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Seriously, though.  I doubt it will be a problem for U.S. "shareholders.", on the other hand I would be skeptical of investing in any U.S. based company selling shares directly through the site.

Simply running a "passthrough" company doesn't mean the SEC won't be able to mess with you if they feel like it.

On the other hand, a company that's actually not run in the U.S at all probably doesn't have much to worry about.  Look at the Kim Dotcom situation - the US tried to prosecute him, but the problem is he's not American, not based in the U.S and doesn't even do any business here, so how can he be prosecuted in the US?

The idea with SOPA was that the US government would be able to just block sites that didn't follow U.S. law, like China. We can see how that went...

OP should be investigated to see if he is spreading rumors and lies in order to manipulate the market (it's illegal)

He is being investigated.  I just got off the phone with a SEC specialist.  He said that OP was indeed breaking the law and would be dealt with post haste.  Oh yeah, he also said OP was a big, fat liar and to never accept a word out of his mouth as being true.

If you don't believe me ask them here https://tts.sec.gov/oiea/QuestionsAndComments.html they called me back.

LOL.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Why even pay attention to this troll? Also: Who here believes that you can just randomly call and ask about specific possible unpublished SEC investigations? Yeah..

well asking if "you've lost any money" doing business with the person you speak of, is pretty common, this would help them rationalize starting an investigation

or at least starting a file and seeing if anyone else complains


legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
Even if he is a troll, it would be nice to a get a clear answer on:

- What could push the SEC to close the exchanges
- What can the exchanges do to conform to the regulations
- What happens if the SEC comes down on them, do we lose our bitcoins?

All our bitcoins, bank accounts will be confiscated, we all go to jail, strip and will be brutally tortured.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Why even pay attention to this troll? Also: Who here believes that you can just randomly call and ask about specific possible unpublished SEC investigations? Yeah..
full member
Activity: 231
Merit: 100
OP should be investigated to see if he is spreading rumors and lies in order to manipulate the market (it's illegal)

He is being investigated.  I just got off the phone with a SEC specialist.  He said that OP was indeed breaking the law and would be dealt with post haste.  Oh yeah, he also said OP was a big, fat liar and to never accept a word out of his mouth as being true.

If you don't believe me ask them here https://tts.sec.gov/oiea/QuestionsAndComments.html they called me back.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
OP should be investigated to see if he is spreading rumors and lies in order to manipulate the market (it's illegal)
legendary
Activity: 1611
Merit: 1001
PANIC SELL  Grin
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
Quick note. IMHOP and limited understanding of bitfunder. The asset list: https://bitfunder.com/assetlist
means that there isn't even a need for a site. If the site goes down as long as the asset list is current on any other clone and they are synced, maybe a private altcoin with a specific blockchain for managing the list,  any site anywhere could reproduce everyone's holdings.

Not sure if btct maintains a similar list, maybe they can work together to create sec-coin and open up a shared api.

Of course if I am completely misunderstanding the current back-end, please enlighten me.


I believe burnside maintains a mirror of the Bitfunder list on btct.co, as well. I haven't seen a similar public list of btct shareholders, but they do mail a list to each asset issuer every 12 hours.

Dooglus has implemented an interesting idea on Just Dice. Each account can specify an "emergency address" to receive Bitcoins in the event something nasty happens to dooglus or the site. This should probably be standard on all sites facing any kind of uncertainty.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
Even if he is a troll, it would be nice to a get a clear answer on:

- What could push the SEC to close the exchanges
- What can the exchanges do to conform to the regulations
- What happens if the SEC comes down on them, do we lose our bitcoins?

United State of the World?
SEC has jurisdiction in the US.
What has become of this world? why are people unable to understand that there are different rules, gov agencies, policies, procedures around the world

You should definitely familiarize yourself with the concept of the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, and how it has been used worldwide to prosecute / extradite foreigners for violation of U.S. laws. It is an incredibly big stick used by Leviathan quite regularly. Not to mention that as a practical matter, all three top exchanges host with U.S. based content delivery networks and therefore have a nexus in the U.S. market.

Potentially more vulnerable than the exchanges are the asset issuers themselves. Even if they aren't U.S. based, they have offered securities to U.S. citizens, and are most likely in violation of the securities laws in their own countries as well. Even China seems to prohibit the issuance of these unregulated securities.

There is no way to know what the SEC plans to do, but based on its history of prosecutions, it seems unlikely that it will take drastic action in the absence of fraud. I'm sure some analysts at the SEC are familiar with Bitcoin securities, but in a world of limited resources, enforcement actions are usually prioritized in favor of easy cases with obviously bad actors.

All of that said, I'm of the opinion that the OP is trolling for cheap shares.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Even if he is a troll, it would be nice to a get a clear answer on:

- What could push the SEC to close the exchanges
- What can the exchanges do to conform to the regulations
- What happens if the SEC comes down on them, do we lose our bitcoins?

United State of the World?
SEC has jurisdiction in the US.
What has become of this world? why are people unable to understand that there are different rules, gov agencies, policies, procedures around the world

-Burnside lives where?  Belize?  
-The SEC, Being a US agency, has jurisdiction anywhere US clout is sufficient, which is to say just about everywhere.  See: 400-pound gorilla.

As for your last questions:
-i don't know.
-they mostly do, they just act according to how shit works IRL, not how it's described on paper.  See: 400-pound gorilla.

Too many backyard practitioners of international law here.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
If anyone thinks for one second that the SEC is not aware of these bitcoin security exchanges then they have not spent much time thinking about it. Of course they know, they probably monitor them and even read these forums. The question is whether they feel the need to do anything about them, and whether it will be cost effective to do so. I think at the moment they are stretched pretty thin with much bigger fish, and have little interest in spending their resources on things that are not causing anyone any real problems. But there is no doubt in my mind they are already aware. 
N_S
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Quick note. IMHOP and limited understanding of bitfunder. The asset list: https://bitfunder.com/assetlist
means that there isn't even a need for a site. If the site goes down as long as the asset list is current on any other clone and they are synced, maybe a private altcoin with a specific blockchain for managing the list,  any site anywhere could reproduce everyone's holdings.

Not sure if btct maintains a similar list, maybe they can work together to create sec-coin and open up a shared api.

Of course if I am completely misunderstanding the current back-end, please enlighten me.


Sometimes it's hard to pick out the grains of truth on this forum... but the quoted text is one of them. If there had been a public bitcoin address ledger for GLBSE many hours of weeping and gnashing of teeth could have been avoided.

It seems any other approach is putting your head in the sand and wishing the inevitable doesn't happen. 

How can we make this happen?
sr. member
Activity: 351
Merit: 250
Quick note. IMHOP and limited understanding of bitfunder. The asset list: https://bitfunder.com/assetlist
means that there isn't even a need for a site. If the site goes down as long as the asset list is current on any other clone and they are synced, maybe a private altcoin with a specific blockchain for managing the list,  any site anywhere could reproduce everyone's holdings.

Not sure if btct maintains a similar list, maybe they can work together to create sec-coin and open up a shared api.

Of course if I am completely misunderstanding the current back-end, please enlighten me.


Sometimes it's hard to pick out the grains of truth on this forum... but the quoted text is one of them. If there had been a public bitcoin address ledger for GLBSE many hours of weeping and gnashing of teeth could have been avoided.

It seems any other approach is putting your head in the sand and wishing the inevitable doesn't happen. 
hero member
Activity: 487
Merit: 500
Are You Shpongled?
People, stop feeding the troll. This guy has also mentioned an incoming fork to Bitcoin, converting to scrypt.

Move along folks, nothing to see here. 
Even more obvious clue that he's trolling: he removed that particular post from his signature immediately after he posted.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
Quick note. IMHOP and limited understanding of bitfunder. The asset list: https://bitfunder.com/assetlist
means that there isn't even a need for a site. If the site goes down as long as the asset list is current on any other clone and they are synced, maybe a private altcoin with a specific blockchain for managing the list,  any site anywhere could reproduce everyone's holdings.

Not sure if btct maintains a similar list, maybe they can work together to create sec-coin and open up a shared api.

Of course if I am completely misunderstanding the current back-end, please enlighten me.
N_S
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
United State of the World?
SEC has jurisdiction in the US.
What has become of this world? why are people unable to understand that there are different rules, gov agencies, policies, procedures around the world

Maybe a better way to word it would be, 'what would happen to US residents if the SEC came down on the exchanges?'

Does anyone have any foresight into this? I remember back during the recent burnside scare regarding US residents, I believe he said he'd allow them to withdraw in a given time window. This would no doubt do substantial damage to prices across the board. Also, this assumes that he'd have any say in the matter.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
Even if he is a troll, it would be nice to a get a clear answer on:

- What could push the SEC to close the exchanges
- What can the exchanges do to conform to the regulations
- What happens if the SEC comes down on them, do we lose our bitcoins?

United State of the World?
SEC has jurisdiction in the US.
What has become of this world? why are people unable to understand that there are different rules, gov agencies, policies, procedures around the world
sr. member
Activity: 617
Merit: 250
Even if he is a troll, it would be nice to a get a clear answer on:

- What could push the SEC to close the exchanges
- What can the exchanges do to conform to the regulations
- What happens if the SEC comes down on them, do we lose our bitcoins?
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
...
For reference

Quote
Public Beta - Terms of Service
We will do everything in our power to protect you and your virtual goods. However, beyond the content of our cold wallet, the exchange is NOT responsible for ANY bad things that happen to you, your securities, your BTC.
Full Release - Terms of Service
Definitions

BTC-TC, btct.co, BTC Trading Corp, The Corporation - A Belize company operating a website for the purposes of education and entertainment via trading of digital virtual commodities. The Corporation has zero legal tender exposure in any jurisdiction.

฿, BTC - A digital cryptographic virtual commodity. Traded on the internet. Not recognized as legal tender in any jurisdiction. Frequently used as "online gaming tokens".

AKA The Pirateat40 defence, nulled (yesterday, i think).  Bitcoin is a currency.  Wordplay never works IRL.
 
Quote
Digital Stock, BTC Stock, Virtual Stock, Stock - A digital virtual commodity, traded within this website. Not recognized as a real legal security in any jurisdiction.

Pointless wordplay again.  If it looks and walks like a duck, it's a duck.  Has been discussed to death on this very forum.  Look at Pirateat40 case for precedence.  He argued the very same thing, failed as expected.

[... wall of text, "Not responsible because Belize, virtual and virtual and only a game" ...  Full of same fail as above.]

EDIT:

"Shavers argues that the BTCST investments are not securities because Bitcoin is not money, and is not part of anything regulated by the United States," according to the ruling. "Shavers also contends that his transactions were all Bitcoin transactions and that no money ever exchanged hands."

In a four-page order Tuesday, Mazzant found that federal securities law gives the court subject matter jurisdiction over the case.
"It is clear that Bitcoin can be used as money," Mazzant wrote. "It can be used to purchase goods or services, and as Shavers stated, used to pay for individual living expenses. The only limitation of Bitcoin is that it is limited to those places that accept it as currency. However, it can also be exchanged for conventional currencies, such as the U.S. dollar, Euro, Yen, and Yuan. Therefore, Bitcoin is a currency or form of money, and investors wishing to invest in BTCST provided an investment of money."


Edit2: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/06/us-court-sec-bitcoin-idUSBRE97517G20130806
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
People, stop feeding the troll. This guy has also mentioned an incoming fork to Bitcoin, converting to scrypt.

Move along folks, nothing to see here. 
sr. member
Activity: 493
Merit: 262
Just got off the phone with a SEC specialist. He said that the SEC is looking into Bitcoin security exchanges, and if they are unregistered and offering unlicensed securities then they are violating the law and has advised me to not invest. I asked him about if being virtual and for educational purposes covers it and he said he cannot say.

Oh and he asked me if I have lost any money in anything Ethan Burnside offered, I take that as burnside here

If you don't believe me ask them here https://tts.sec.gov/oiea/QuestionsAndComments.html they called me back.
Santa called, he said you won't get anything for christmas.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Quote
Public Beta - Terms of Service
We will do everything in our power to protect you and your virtual goods. However, beyond the content of our cold wallet, the exchange is NOT responsible for ANY bad things that happen to you, your securities, your BTC.
Full Release - Terms of Service
Definitions

BTC-TC, btct.co, BTC Trading Corp, The Corporation - A Belize company operating a website for the purposes of education and entertainment via trading of digital virtual commodities. The Corporation has zero legal tender exposure in any jurisdiction.

฿, BTC - A digital cryptographic virtual commodity. Traded on the internet. Not recognized as legal tender in any jurisdiction. Frequently used as "online gaming tokens".

Digital Stock, BTC Stock, Virtual Stock, Stock - A digital virtual commodity, traded within this website. Not recognized as a real legal security in any jurisdiction.

Digital Bond, BTC Bond, Virtual Bond, Bond - A digital virtual commodity, traded within this website. Not to be recognized as a real legal security in any jurisdiction.

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1)   You will not impersonate or misrepresent your affiliation with any person or entity, through pretexting or some other form of social engineering or otherwise commit fraud.

2)   You will not use the website or Services to provide any product or services claiming success with or offering information regarding lottery numbers or for purposes of multi-level marketing proposals (for example, offering to help participants "get rich quickly" or "make money surfing the Web") or use the website or Services to promote bonus items, giveaways, random drawings, prizes, contests or games of chance.

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4)   You will not encourage or instruct any other individual to do any of the foregoing or to violate any term of this Agreement.

M)   BTC-TC DOES NOT PERMIT THE UPLOADING OF ANY "MATURE", "ADULT" OR "PORNOGRAPHIC" CONTENT WHATSOVER. "Mature" as used in this Agreement means content that contains nudity, violence or is sexually explicit in nature. You will not upload, post, submit or otherwise transmit, via the website or Services, any User Submissions that: (i) contain content related to bestiality, rape, incest, sex with graphic violence or degradation; or (ii) constitute child pornography or child erotica. If BTC-TC finds User Submissions that it determines, in its sole discretion, violate this section, BTC-TC may, without notice, remove or block access to such User Submissions.

N)   BTC-TC reserves the right to suspend or cancel at any time and without notice any BTC-TC account that BTC-TC in its sole discretion, determines to be in violation of this or any other section. BTC-TC will take all appropriate steps with User Submissions that BTC-TC believes violate applicable laws, including cooperation with any investigation. If you see a User Submission that you believe is in violation of law or this section, please contact BTC-TC immediately.

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1)   Circumvent, disable or otherwise interfere with security-related features of the website or features that prevent or restrict use or copying of any BTC-TC Content.

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3)   Forge any TCP/IP packet header or any part of the header information in any posting or in any way use the website or Services to send altered, deceptive or false source-identifying information.

4)   Interfere with, harm or disrupt (or attempt to interfere with, harm or disrupt) any web pages available at the website, servers or networks connected to the website, Services or the technical delivery systems of BTC-TC providers or disobey any requirements, procedures, policies or regulations of networks connected to the website or Services.

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Cool   Use the website or Services in any manner not permitted by this Agreement.

9)   Encourage or instruct any other individual to do any of the foregoing or to violate any term of this Agreement.

Comments and Feedback

A)   You may leave feedback and make comments about your experience with an BTC-TC Member with whom you have interacted ("Comments").

B)   BTC-TC advises you to exercise caution and good judgment when leaving such Comments. Once you complete and submit your Comments to the website or Services you may not be able to go back and edit your Comments. You should also be aware that you could be held legally responsible for damages to someone's reputation if your Comments are deemed to be defamatory. Generally, BTC-TC does not monitor or censor Comments that are provided by BTC-TC Users unless and disclaims any and all liability relating thereto. Comments and complaints should be done privately and not in the public Forums.

C)   Notwithstanding the foregoing, BTC-TC does reserve the right, in its sole discretion, to remove any Comments that it deems to be improper, inappropriate or inconsistent with the online activities that are permitted under this Agreement.

D)   Feedback. We welcome and encourage you to provide feedback, comments and suggestions for improvements to the website and Services ("Feedback"). You may submit Feedback by contacting us through the "Customer Support" section of the website.

E)   You acknowledge and agree that all Comments and all Feedback will be the sole and exclusive property of BTC-TC. You hereby assign and agree to assign all rights, title and interest you have in such Comments and Feedback to BTC-TC together with all intellectual property rights therein.

Copyrighted Materials

No Infringing Use. You will not use the website or Services to offer, display, distribute, transmit, route, provide connections to or store any material that infringes copyrighted works or otherwise violates or promotes the violation of the intellectual property rights of any third party. BTC-TC has adopted and implemented a policy that provides for the termination in appropriate circumstances of the accounts of users who repeatedly infringe or are believed to be or are charged with repeatedly infringing the rights of copyright holders. Please see the The BTC-TC IP Policy for further information.

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UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL BTC-TC BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH USE OF THE WEBSITE, SERVICES, BTC-TC CONTENT AND USER SUBMISSIONS INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INJURY OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM THE CONDUCT OF ANY BTC-TC USER, IN-WORLD, ONLINE OR OFFLINE, WHETHER OR NOT BTC-TC HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. WITHOUT LIMITING THE GENERALITY OF THE FOREGOING, BTC-TC’s AGGREGATE LIABILITY TO YOU ARISING WITH RESPECT TO THIS AGREEMENT WILL NOT EXCEED US$50. BTC-TC WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF ANY INTERRUPTIONS OR ERRORS RELATING TO THE WEBSITE, SERVICES OR THE SCHEDULED OR UNSCHEDULED SERVICE INTERRUPTIONS OF ANY VIRTUAL ONLINE ENVIRONMENT OR MULTI-USER ONLINE SERVICE, SUCH AS SECOND LIFE(R) . SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATION AND EXCLUSIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

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BTC-TC will not be liable to you by reason of any failure or delay in the performance of its obligations hereunder on account of events beyond its reasonable control, which may include, without limitation, denial-of-service attacks, strikes, shortages, riots, insurrection, fires, flood, storm, explosions, acts of God, war, terrorism, governmental action, labor conditions, earthquakes, material shortages, extraordinary Internet congestion or extraordinary connectivity issues experienced by major telecommunications providers and unrelated to the BTC-TC infrastructure or connectivity to the Internet or failure at an BTC-TC co-location facility (each a "Force Majeure Event"). Upon the occurrence of a Force Majeure Event, BTC-TC will be excused from any further performance of its obligations effected by the Force Majeure Event for so long as the event continues, and for such further period of time that BTC-TC may reasonably require to recover from the effects of such Force Majeure Event.

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Notwithstanding any provision hereof, for all purposes of this Agreement each party will be independent and act independently and not as a contractor, partner, joint venturer, agent, employee or employer of the other and will not bind nor attempt to bind the other to any contract.

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The website or Services may provide links to websites other than BTC-TC. Such links are provided for reference only, and BTC-TC neither controls such websites nor endorses any of the material on any such websites or any association with their operators. BTC-TC is not responsible for the activities or such websites, and has no liability to you for any harms, injuries or losses you might suffer as a result of using or accessing such websites.

Miscellaneous

In the event that any provision in this Agreement is held to be invalid or unenforceable, the unenforceable part shall be given effect to the greatest extent permitted by law and the remaining provisions will remain in full force and effect to the maximum extent permitted by law. The failure of a party to enforce any right or provision of this Agreement will not be deemed a waiver of such right or provision. You may not assign this Agreement (by operation of law or otherwise) without the prior written consent of BTC-TC and any prohibited assignment will be null and void. BTC-TC may assign this Agreement or any rights hereunder without your consent. This Agreement will be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of the Cook Islands excluding that body of law pertaining to conflict of laws. Any controversy or claim arising out of or relating to this contract, or the breach of this contract, shall be settled by binding internet arbitration at judge.me in accordance with the judge.me arbitration agreement. The arbitrator's decision shall be final and legally binding and judgment may be entered thereon.

You agree that this Agreement and the rules, restrictions and policies contained herein, and BTC-TC enforcement thereof, are not intended to confer and do not confer any rights or remedies upon any person other than you and BTC-TC.

This Agreement together with the rules and policies of BTC-TC and other Agreements incorporated herein by reference constitutes the entire agreement between BTC-TC and you with respect to the subject matter of this Agreement.
hero member
Activity: 564
Merit: 508
Just got off the phone with a SEC specialist. He said that the SEC is looking into Bitcoin security exchanges, and if they are unregistered and offering unlicensed securities then they are violating the law and has advised me to not invest. I asked him about if being virtual and for educational purposes covers it and he said he cannot say.

Oh and he asked me if I have lost any money in anything Ethan Burnside offered, I take that as burnside here

If you don't believe me ask them here https://tts.sec.gov/oiea/QuestionsAndComments.html they called me back.

Smells like trolling, especially the "Oh and he asked me if I have lost any money in anything Ethan Burnside offered, I take that as burnside here" part ...
I don't think SEC is managing this kind of personal matters at phone with anybody...
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
Just a casual reminder bitcoin is switching to scrypt

Bitcoin will be switching to punch-cards. Invest in punch-card readers while they are still cheap. Potential profits of over 10,000%.
member
Activity: 119
Merit: 10
Just a casual reminder bitcoin is switching to scrypt
sr. member
Activity: 335
Merit: 250
Just looked at this: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/techsavver-85582

WOW! You say really flaky things. 

Just got off the phone with a SEC specialist. He said that the SEC is looking into Bitcoin security exchanges, and if they are unregistered and offering unlicensed securities then they are violating the law and has advised me to not invest. I asked him about if being virtual and for educational purposes covers it and he said he cannot say.

Oh and he asked me if I have lost any money in anything Ethan Burnside offered, I take that as burnside here

If you don't believe me ask them here https://tts.sec.gov/oiea/QuestionsAndComments.html they called me back.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
This seems like a troll post. 

Perhaps they are trying to re-instigate the panic sells that happened last time the SEC was mentioned, so they can get some cheap shares?
Pretty weak attempt at manipulation if thats what it is.
hero member
Activity: 887
Merit: 1000
This seems like a troll post. 
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
This is the elephant in the room. I hope Burnside and Ukyo are working on this as a team to make sure a shutdown and a seizure of funds won't happen.

Ukyo has been all over this from the beginning:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2798852
sr. member
Activity: 617
Merit: 250
This is the elephant in the room. I hope Burnside and Ukyo are working on this as a team to make sure a shutdown and a seizure of funds won't happen.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500

All offers were made prior to FinCEN guidance regarding Bitcoin, were made in good faith, and were intended exactly as stated on the site -- to be traded as an educational and entertaining exercise.  Oddly enough, were I to willy-nilly shut them down now, I can be almost certain that some people WOULD hold me responsible for their losses.  Thus the FinCEN guidance puts me in a catch-22 with the SEC and there are lawyers working on figuring this out.  However, if you have lost USD on any of these;


Burnside, you have this odd patchwork of Securities law understanding, I thought you would get this resolved with your lawyers but some of the stuff you say just doesn't make any sense regarding the inevitable dilemma you are in.


the SEC doesn't care about FinCEN, they care that you are offering securities, unregistered securities that have not applied for an exemption. The SEC does not (technically) judge the merit of an investment, they only look to see if the right amount of disclosure is taking place.


it doesn't matter that your registration is in belize, they will tell an administrative law judge (a rent-a-judge who works in the sec building) that what you do is affecting interstate commerce and that will give them federal jurisdiction and enough rationalization for the federal judge to sign the "emergency asset injunction" which is a court order to freeze all applicable assets, including your computers, wallets, etc under penalty of contempt of court.

You can be using a myriad of disclaimers and plausible deniability to get around this. Given that your exchange does not have the capabilities to verify that customers are american citizens.

Anyway, nobody panic. we can work with the SEC, but it would be so much easier if your computers were not in the united states, to go along with your disclaimers.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Just yesterday the poster that started this topic tried to singlehandedly switch BTC from SHA-256 to Scrypt as hashing algorithm and got pretty much laughed out of the Development subforum. I don't take his words too seriously.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1006
Lead Blockchain Developer
(removed 8/7/13. was causing more uproar than it was worth.  better to not feed the trolls.)
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1015
The problem is not so much the exchanges, it is that US citizens are using them.

For the SEC chair-polishing bureaucrats this means the sheeple are doing something without permission. They are sticking their heads through the barbed wire and munching on long green grass on the other side. How dare they? This must be stopped even if it means torching the grass with a flamethrower. The sheeple must be administered by the SEC for their own good!


I understand this, nothing would make me happier for US citizens to be the only people in the world fully denied any Bitcoin commerce. The USA stabbing itself in the foot and missing out on the new economy is a dream for the world, for the USA to finally lose out on something because of their stupid laws.

If the busybodies and lawyers finally destroy the country it would hopefully free us all from the USA forever, I can't wait for that country to crumble away and never return.

USA please close the borders, shut off your internet, deny your people Bitcoin and leave the rest of the world alone.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
The problem is not so much the exchanges, it is that US citizens are using them.

For the SEC chair-polishing bureaucrats this means the sheeple are doing something without permission. They are sticking their heads through the barbed wire and munching on long green grass on the other side. How dare they? This must be stopped even if it means torching the grass with a flamethrower. The sheeple must be administered by the SEC for their own good!


legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1015
Just got off the phone with a SEC specialist. He said that the SEC is looking into Bitcoin security exchanges, and if they are unregistered and offering unlicensed securities then they are violating the law and has advised me to not invest. I asked him about if being virtual and for educational purposes covers it and he said he cannot say.

If you don't believe me ask them here https://tts.sec.gov/oiea/QuestionsAndComments.html they called me back.

Whoa! How arrogant are these fools?

Next time you speak to this SEC specialist please ask him what gives the USA control over all the worlds exchanges? I think the assumption that if the USA disagrees it must be illegal arrogant and dense.

What law is being violated?

Perhaps in the USA but most of us live, do business and exist outside the USA.

I hate that country so much, such utter arrogance I can't believe it sometimes.
newbie
Activity: 54
Merit: 0
Just got off the phone with a SEC specialist. He said that the SEC is looking into Bitcoin security exchanges, and if they are unregistered and offering unlicensed securities then they are violating the law and has advised me to not invest. I asked him about if being virtual and for educational purposes covers it and he said he cannot say.

Oh and he asked me if I have lost any money in anything Ethan Burnside offered, I take that as burnside here

If you don't believe me ask them here https://tts.sec.gov/oiea/QuestionsAndComments.html they called me back.
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