The United States is in Worse Shape Financially Than Russia

Nabicoma

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Quote from: el kaka22 on December 24, 2016, 01:32:02 PM

Quote from: btvGainer on December 24, 2016, 06:11:05 AM

Quote from: Nabicoma on December 24, 2016, 05:23:42 AM

Quote from: Carlsen on December 09, 2016, 09:49:49 AM

The united states live from their good reputation.
Although they have already been nearly insolvent a few times during the last years, the USA get negative real interest rates on government debt.
That means the market believes that there are no alternatives with sufficiently low risk.
Hopefully the market is not wrong.

The US credability will be lost soon and the US dollar will crash.

Will bitcoin also crash if dollar crash? most of bitcoin buying through fiat is done with dollar,if it crashes,there will be less buying

No. When the buying power of dollars is getting crashed out, interestingly bitcoin will get more power in term of buying capability. Usually dollar and gold are inverted connected so we can assume bitcoin too. When dollar will lose its value, bitcoin will gain.

Buying bitcoins using fiats has nothing to do with this by any means. (If dollar crashed out, we just need more dollars to buy one bitcoin.)

It is possible that the US dollar price will be much higher in the near future.

el kaka22

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Quote from: btvGainer on December 24, 2016, 06:11:05 AM

Quote from: Nabicoma on December 24, 2016, 05:23:42 AM

Quote from: Carlsen on December 09, 2016, 09:49:49 AM

The united states live from their good reputation.
Although they have already been nearly insolvent a few times during the last years, the USA get negative real interest rates on government debt.
That means the market believes that there are no alternatives with sufficiently low risk.
Hopefully the market is not wrong.

The US credability will be lost soon and the US dollar will crash.

Will bitcoin also crash if dollar crash? most of bitcoin buying through fiat is done with dollar,if it crashes,there will be less buying

No. When the buying power of dollars is getting crashed out, interestingly bitcoin will get more power in term of buying capability. Usually dollar and gold are inverted connected so we can assume bitcoin too. When dollar will lose its value, bitcoin will gain.

Buying bitcoins using fiats has nothing to do with this by any means. (If dollar crashed out, we just need more dollars to buy one bitcoin.)

btvGainer

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Quote from: Nabicoma on December 24, 2016, 05:23:42 AM

Quote from: Carlsen on December 09, 2016, 09:49:49 AM

The united states live from their good reputation.
Although they have already been nearly insolvent a few times during the last years, the USA get negative real interest rates on government debt.
That means the market believes that there are no alternatives with sufficiently low risk.
Hopefully the market is not wrong.

The US credability will be lost soon and the US dollar will crash.

Will bitcoin also crash if dollar crash? most of bitcoin buying through fiat is done with dollar,if it crashes,there will be less buying

xdrpx

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Yes, and most of the financial spending happens through debt (credit cards) and people often face a hard time repaying them. Also, even though the US Federal Reserve prints a lot of notes, they still do have to bear the costs of printing and circulation of funds. I'm not sure how far can I relate it to being weaker than Russia financially, but I'm sure the overall GDP of the United States isn't that bad.

Nabicoma

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Quote from: Carlsen on December 09, 2016, 09:49:49 AM

The united states live from their good reputation.
Although they have already been nearly insolvent a few times during the last years, the USA get negative real interest rates on government debt.
That means the market believes that there are no alternatives with sufficiently low risk.
Hopefully the market is not wrong.

The US credability will be lost soon and the US dollar will crash.

Carlsen

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The united states live from their good reputation.
Although they have already been nearly insolvent a few times during the last years, the USA get negative real interest rates on government debt.
That means the market believes that there are no alternatives with sufficiently low risk.
Hopefully the market is not wrong.

davis196

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Quote from: clickerz on November 02, 2016, 09:10:44 AM

I believe so, that US has trillions? of debts and as what I read before,they are indebted to China also. Also even though strong in military and technology, but its not sound financially. And it seems its a ticking bomb,waiting to explode.

USA isn`t in the best finansial shape,but we can`t compare USA to Russia.

They are too different.

Trump can change everything after January 2017 Grin

...

Factmine

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Quote from: neochiny on December 09, 2016, 08:59:56 AM

Quote from: Xester on December 09, 2016, 07:40:29 AM

---
It wouldn't surprise me if / when usd has a huge crash or is hyperinflated that we'll comparing everything to a bitcoin (or another cryptocurrency).

It is possible that bitcoin will add to US currency financial crisis when people are leaving the banks and replace fiat currency with bitcoins. Soon more Americans, Russians, Chinese will leave the banks to rot and will shift to cryptocurrency.

China will be the top of society since they have major holdings on bitcoin.

But the U.S. is too dependent on credit. The average citizen has multiple credit cards, and they keep on charging and charging. Then there's the Property Mortgages, where a single property could be mortgaged not just once, but even twice. I haven't seen a nation as dependent on their credit cards.
[/quote]

True, I visited the US once and I was shocked that my credit card can do so much! Want a drink? Credit card vending machines. Pay for parking? Credit card automatic payment machine. Need to buy something from a local convenience store? They accept card even for only a dollar bought from the store. This isn't the case in my country. We usually can only use credit cards for big purchases (around $10 or more). My country doesn't rely too much on credit like the US does. I think this was their downfall like how the real estate under credit bubble they had before.

neochiny

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Quote from: Xester on December 09, 2016, 07:40:29 AM

---
It wouldn't surprise me if / when usd has a huge crash or is hyperinflated that we'll comparing everything to a bitcoin (or another cryptocurrency).

It is possible that bitcoin will add to US currency financial crisis when people are leaving the banks and replace fiat currency with bitcoins. Soon more Americans, Russians, Chinese will leave the banks to rot and will shift to cryptocurrency.

China will be the top of society since they have major holdings on bitcoin.
[/quote]

But the U.S. is too dependent on credit. The average citizen has multiple credit cards, and they keep on charging and charging. Then there's the Property Mortgages, where a single property could be mortgaged not just once, but even twice. I haven't seen a nation as dependent on their credit cards.

Xester

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Quote from: U2 on November 04, 2016, 02:42:31 PM

Quote from: jbreher on November 04, 2016, 02:32:46 PM

And nobody has seen USA's gold for over half-century. Is it still there?

Gold? What gold? I never saw any Wink

. Hehehe.

Quote from: yayayo on November 02, 2016, 11:18:46 AM

The whole power of the U.S. relies on the status of the USD as a world trade currency. That status is about to collapse. It's possible that the USD will be the last national currency that will have the status of a trade currency. The age of cryptocurrencies is looming...

It wouldn't surprise me if / when usd has a huge crash or is hyperinflated that we'll comparing everything to a bitcoin (or another cryptocurrency).

It is possible that bitcoin will add to US currency financial crisis when people are leaving the banks and replace fiat currency with bitcoins. Soon more Americans, Russians, Chinese will leave the banks to rot and will shift to cryptocurrency.

China will be the top of society since they have major holdings on bitcoin.

OROBTC

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...

The US has grave problems with its debt, no doubt. But, the other powers (China and Russia) have even more serious problems IMO if you look hard.

Besides, each of us can only do what we can do as individuals. Ponder the below:

1) I would *guess* that people here on this forum are smarter and have more money than the "average American".

2) It is not really hard nor that expensive to get certain assets that will protect us in case things DO go to shit...

3) Here is a starter list:

- gold (for the wealthy) and/or silver (for the less so). Silver might work better in trade after a SHTF. Gold for your children...
- Bitcoin, the potential for HUGE speculative gains (and privacy) make this a great asset.
- A gun (or two) and at least 1000 rounds of ammo (each weapon), NOT counting how much you need to shoot before becoming proficient.
- Necessary (or tradable) medicine like Epipens, pain pills, antibiotics. Add a first aid kit too.

An ounce or two or three of gold. A Bitcoin or two or three. A weapon, ammo and the knowledge of how to use it. You are then ahead of 95% of Americans (at least those not on farms).

Hung_Daddy

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eh im not really buying it tbh

russia is not in the position where an asian country pretty mcuh owns them :/

Nabicoma

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Quote from: South Park on November 04, 2016, 05:26:08 PM

Quote from: qiwoman2 on November 04, 2016, 12:44:07 AM

The problem with printing money all the time is it keeps making the middle classes and poor people even poorer as their purchasing power keeps going down and this isn't a good thing long term at all. Also increasing the debt ceiling is a big problem and this has to be sorted out. Russia and China are buying up a lot of gold reserves, what is the U.S doing to strengthen it's fiat currency?

When governments of the world turn on the printing press to get out of debt the middle class is the most affected by far, the rich will still be rich since they have houses, jewelry and stuff like that, the truly poor are still very poor, the middle class is the one that has most of their wealth confiscated through inflation.

The inflation will affect the middle and lower class more than the upper class. So the poorer people should support the bitcoin.

South Park

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Quote from: qiwoman2 on November 04, 2016, 12:44:07 AM

The problem with printing money all the time is it keeps making the middle classes and poor people even poorer as their purchasing power keeps going down and this isn't a good thing long term at all. Also increasing the debt ceiling is a big problem and this has to be sorted out. Russia and China are buying up a lot of gold reserves, what is the U.S doing to strengthen it's fiat currency?

When governments of the world turn on the printing press to get out of debt the middle class is the most affected by far, the rich will still be rich since they have houses, jewelry and stuff like that, the truly poor are still very poor, the middle class is the one that has most of their wealth confiscated through inflation.

Kprawn

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If you are a US citizen, and you have never looked at this http://www.usdebtclock.org/ and had no sleepless nights.... then you should join

the other millions of people ignoring the obvious signs of a total economic collapse. The Americans think that they are the superior nation, but

they are drowning in debt. You can still live in a fancy house with hunger pains. Roll Eyes

U2

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I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not sure...

Quote from: jbreher on November 04, 2016, 02:32:46 PM

And nobody has seen USA's gold for over half-century. Is it still there?

Gold? What gold? I never saw any Wink

. Hehehe.

Quote from: yayayo on November 02, 2016, 11:18:46 AM

The whole power of the U.S. relies on the status of the USD as a world trade currency. That status is about to collapse. It's possible that the USD will be the last national currency that will have the status of a trade currency. The age of cryptocurrencies is looming...

It wouldn't surprise me if / when usd has a huge crash or is hyperinflated that we'll comparing everything to a bitcoin (or another cryptocurrency).

jbreher

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lose: unfind ... loose: untight

Quote from: qiwoman2 on November 04, 2016, 12:44:07 AM

Russia and China are buying up a lot of gold reserves, what is the U.S doing to strengthen it's fiat currency?

Russia: 1447 tonnes
China: 1800 tonnes
USA: 8133 tonnes

So it would seem that the US has sufficient reserves in proportion to money supply - at least as a ratio comparable to other actors. Whether or not any real currency should be fiat is another discussion entirely.

Of course, China's 1800 is just what they are admitting to. Speculation is that they may hold up to double that amount.

And nobody has seen USA's gold for over half-century. Is it still there?

qiwoman2

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Oikos.cash | Decentralized Finance on Tron

The problem with printing money all the time is it keeps making the middle classes and poor people even poorer as their purchasing power keeps going down and this isn't a good thing long term at all. Also increasing the debt ceiling is a big problem and this has to be sorted out. Russia and China are buying up a lot of gold reserves, what is the U.S doing to strengthen it's fiat currency?

jubalix

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Quote from: pitham1 on November 02, 2016, 08:38:08 AM

The only saving grace for the USA is that its external debt is denominated in dollars, which it can print. This is not the case for other countries. As long as they are able to refinance their debt, the cycle continues.

this the US can print its way out of any debt....

Shiroslullaby

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User OgNasty posted this picture in another topic.

I think we need to be very careful because we are on the edge right now.
The United States is the guy in a rich neighborhood who lost his job but lies to his wife and pretends to go to work every day.
We are just trying to keep up appearances but the checkbook is empty kids.
It's only a matter of time before the whole thing crashes down and the repo men come to take all the furniture.

Yakamoto

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Yeah, a lot of major countries are teetering on the edge of economic collapse right now. It's just a bunch of people who believe that they have a lot of assets in other means (like housing, resources that aren't having their value realized, etc.) and think that they are doping fine economically.

The US has been and likely will be struggling for a long period of time. Russia can at least export oil and gas to Europe.

veleten

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Quote from: Nabicoma on November 03, 2016, 04:01:23 PM

Quote from: pitham1 on November 02, 2016, 08:38:08 AM

The only saving grace for the USA is that its external debt is denominated in dollars, which it can print. This is not the case for other countries. As long as they are able to refinance their debt, the cycle continues.

That is right. The American government does not need to worry about its debt. It can easily pay back.

it won't pay it back,it is not meant to be paid back
this not a debt but a toll on all the countries through the combination of their printed paper and military force
how well do you think you would be doing if I printed money and took your things in exchange for that printed paper?
the US function as a huge vacuum cleaner collecting brains and resources from all over the world

Nabicoma

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Quote from: pitham1 on November 02, 2016, 08:38:08 AM

The only saving grace for the USA is that its external debt is denominated in dollars, which it can print. This is not the case for other countries. As long as they are able to refinance their debt, the cycle continues.

That is right. The American government does not need to worry about its debt. It can easily pay back.

veleten

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the video is a nice change from the common rethorics towards Russia
which can be illustrated by this picture:

everythin that goes wrong is because Putin did it

I wonder if by any miracle Clinton is cheated into presidency,how long would it take to start a WW3 with China and Russia?

South Park

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Quote from: yayayo on November 02, 2016, 11:18:46 AM

Quote from: clickerz on November 02, 2016, 09:10:44 AM

I believe so, that US has trillions? of debts and as what I read before,they are indebted to China also. Also even though strong in military and technology, but its not sound financially. And it seems its a ticking bomb,waiting to explode.

Well the U.S. might abuse its military power and just not pay its debt or engage in some kind of war that results in debt relief.

The whole power of the U.S. relies on the status of the USD as a world trade currency. That status is about to collapse. It's possible that the USD will be the last national currency that will have the status of a trade currency. The age of cryptocurrencies is looming...

While the U.S. are accumulating debt, Russia and China are buying significant amounts of gold. Russia also has a tremendous amount of unexploited or unexplored resources. Therefore I think we will see a shift of power from the West to the East in the coming decades.

ya.ya.yo!

Unlikely, military power only works if we are talking about some kind of traditional conflict with soldier’s tanks, etc. but in this M.A.D era that is not going to work.

ekoice

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See, there is an universal rule that each country should print its paper currency in proportionate to value of gold it has. But only, the US government dont follow it. They print countless amounts of paper money as they wish.If all of people suddenly return their dollars and ask gold for that dollar value, US government will not be able to pay.So, definitely US Dollar is going to collapse and obviously,US is going to collapse.

veleten

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it is not that grim
US is in a very bad shape due to their debt spiralling out of control ,which has to be serviced
thus upping the interest rate would straight destroy the economy
but the US possess one of the strongest military in the world and could want to solve all their problems the way they have been doing it before-organise wars and instability around the globe
ask yourselves: if I were the US how would I get rid of my debts?
only 2 ways-default and insolvency
or some mega war or cataclism wiping out the records and starting the pyramid anew
and no,they can't possibly pay it out,it wasn't supposed to be paid out as it was some kind of tribute not a loan per se

chesatochi

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I checked the national debt of the United States, right now is almost 20 trillions of dollars. I think print more money to pay your bill with only paper money is not the way to continue. We should find new economic rules for the future.

You can see the national debt in real time on this website.
http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedstates

mindrust

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The solution is very easy. Why is he worried about it? Print more money and you can pay your debts. Better, print a lot more money and give it to the US citizens for free. People won't have to work so you won't need Apple or Microsoft anymore. Shut them down too.

Milkduds

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Quote from: allthingsluxury on November 03, 2016, 08:37:19 AM

Completely agree, the slow shift of power that is occurring as we speak, from West to East, is only going to continue on.

This is the crux of it. The switch of power would have to be gradual as the East is also highly vested in the USD and would not want to cause a ripple that could take them down at the same time. So many things revolve around the American dollar that it will be a real slow go,to the point it will not likely be in most of our lifetimes for it to be successful.

allthingsluxury

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Completely agree, the slow shift of power that is occurring as we speak, from West to East, is only going to continue on.

yayayo

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Quote from: clickerz on November 02, 2016, 09:10:44 AM

I believe so, that US has trillions? of debts and as what I read before,they are indebted to China also. Also even though strong in military and technology, but its not sound financially. And it seems its a ticking bomb,waiting to explode.

Well the U.S. might abuse its military power and just not pay its debt or engage in some kind of war that results in debt relief.

The whole power of the U.S. relies on the status of the USD as a world trade currency. That status is about to collapse. It's possible that the USD will be the last national currency that will have the status of a trade currency. The age of cryptocurrencies is looming...

While the U.S. are accumulating debt, Russia and China are buying significant amounts of gold. Russia also has a tremendous amount of unexploited or unexplored resources. Therefore I think we will see a shift of power from the West to the East in the coming decades.

ya.ya.yo!

allthingsluxury

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Quote from: pitham1 on November 02, 2016, 08:38:08 AM

The only saving grace for the USA is that its external debt is denominated in dollars, which it can print. This is not the case for other countries. As long as they are able to refinance their debt, the cycle continues.

Definitely, if this power is EVER took away from them, then there will be a currency collapse of epic proportions.

clickerz

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I believe so, that US has trillions? of debts and as what I read before,they are indebted to China also. Also even though strong in military and technology, but its not sound financially. And it seems its a ticking bomb,waiting to explode.

pitham1

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The only saving grace for the USA is that its external debt is denominated in dollars, which it can print. This is not the case for other countries. As long as they are able to refinance their debt, the cycle continues.

allthingsluxury

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Boston University Economics Professor Laurence Kotlikoff says, “So, if you put everything on the books, we’re broke, and we’ve been printing money out the wazoo since 2007 to pay Congress’s bills. That’s the truth about quantitative easing.

We need to have somebody who knows what’s going on in the big picture here and has a game plan to get rid of this fiscal gap, and do it without total chaos. If we leave things the way they are, people will view the country as leaderless fundamentally and printing money to pay its bills.

Then, the expectation will occur, and that’s going to raise rates, and that’s going to drop bond prices, and that will sink the banks, and, yes, you can have another great recession like Bill Gross is referencing (bond super nova).

I’ve been saying this for decades. The time for the last straw to drop on the camel’s back, and when it’s going to drop that camel is hard to say.

If you look at the fundamentals, and the fundamentals look like that of an emerging country, we are the most indebted developed country relative to GDP of any country around.

We are in worse shape, I believe, than Russia or Greece, and far worse shape than Italy.”

Click here to watch this video:

http://www.goldsilverliberty.com/2016/10/the-united-states-is-in-worse-shape.html

Topic: The United States is in Worse Shape Financially Than Russia (Read 1465 times)