Topic: The White European should be praised for their actions concerning slavery (Read 5716 times)

Think Europe and the States have done a good work accepting human beings for what they are; the States still have the problem of keeping the black community impoverished by keeping them low saying they can't succeed because of what their ancestors endured; they received a lot of government handouts that are known to keep community into poverty

What's really sad is that humans have not learned anything from slavery. They are so self-important, self-centered and selfish that they missed this window of opportunity to evolve into better beings. So many years have passed and yet both the descendants of slaves and slave masters are still so busy indulging in their petty sentiments. It's disheartening that after all the suffering endured during that period of history, humans have still not made this very simple connection, that life is not meant to be caged.

Let me help you with the difference between fact and opinion.


"Facts" are in bold, opinions are underlined. This was the first response where you attempted to state a "fact." The word "facts" is in quotations because there is no source, and it's so vague that it may be true. For example, "the first ones" means what? People in the world? People in the developed world? People in Europe? The loose way your "fact" is presented raises questions as to its validity, but even taking it on face value, it remains that the vast majority of what you're posting is still opinion.

No, that's not MY argument for christ sake. That's OPs argument, based on the way he generally lumped the people who abolished slavery in with the people who started it by only identifying them based on their race. OP's sole qualifier is "white Europeans." It makes no sense to praise "white Europeans" for ending slavery unless you're trying to counter the argument that "white Europeans" have something to be ashamed of re: slavery. If you're trying to give credit to the specific generation that ended slavery, you would not lazily over generalize like that. The fact that you do is evidence you're trying to say that later generations of "white Europeans" made up for the earlier generations of "white Europeans." That's the argument I'm taking issue with.

I'm not saying the people who ended slavery don't deserve credit. I'm saying if you're sole qualifier for identification is based on a general race you cannot exclude their entire history. You're ascribing to me an argument I am not making, by virtue of my single response to OP. On top of that, you said the same thing I did later: "As far as them deserving less blame because they were some of the early pioneers of abolition of slavery is not exactly valid either. A bad act doesn't erase a good act just as good doesn't erase a bad act." Either my first response you took issue with and this response with you is correct, or you're arguing against your own point as well as mine. It cannot hold that my first response is wrong, but when you said it three days later it was correct.

You still don't get it. For the amount of flack Europeans give the US about slavery, this is a little annoyingly arrogant. Who do you think sold the US all its slaves? The EUROPEANS! Europe built its empire on the backs of slaves. Just because it was "the first" to support abolition doesn't mean the entirety of Europe deserves "less blame". Furthermore there is evidence to suggest that there was a large economic motive for Europe to use its new found policy of abolition to financially extort the US population into a civil war that would result in debt that was crippling to US sovereignty. So Europe's motives were not exactly 100% pure.

We agree compliments are not racist and I agree generalising too much about a group could be racist but am not doing that, Europeans were the first ones to abolish slavery and pushed for its abolition in most countries thus should not be blamed more than any other culture in regards to slavery when they clearly are; if anything they should be blamed way less and praised for the actions they took that led to less slavery in the world; people that blame the Europeans for slavery have to be considered in favor of slavery, hope you are not

No, because we aren't saying the same thing...
1. Not all abolitionists were slave holders
2. Most slave holders that later became abolitionists were born into the system (like most of us today)
3. The people who abolished slavery were not the same individuals that implemented the system

You seem to be arguing that most former slave holders one day decided slavery is wrong, but because they once thought it was ok they deserve condemnation. It is almost as if you are treating the entire nation as if they were one slave holding individual. Some people deserve praise, others do not. Your analysis of the situation is incomplete.

Haha, jesus h. christ, no. My point is OP posted something and I responded to him. Then you quoted me, directly responding to what I said, and started talking about something neither of us were talking about. I took exception to it because it didn't address what I said, but implied I was down with slavery.

As for us both saying the same thing, I've already quoted it. How many times do I have to quote it, and what good does it do since I've already quoted it and you ignored it?

Here it is again, just for the devil of it, my first post in this thread:


This was in response to the OP, which was "The White European should be praised for their actions concerning slavery" (the title of this thread).


And just for reference, here's the part where you and I expressed the exact same sentiment (again):



We're saying the same thing. Can't we just agree to agree?

So now because I talked with you first, you now get to decide with whom I talk to and which topics I am addressing now?

Where exactly did I say what?

Mate, your first post in this thread was in response to my response to OP. You were not talking about anything before you addressed me first.

Myself and others were very clearly talking about the US civil war and how it relates to slavery, you are the one that just decided to change the subject because you just stated you intended to talk about something else...

Where exactly did you say this? Please quote. I am very clearly making a distinction between pro-slavery whites and abolitionist whites, as well as one generation from a following generation of people. Claiming I am not making that distinction does not make it magically true.

Who is talking about the US? OP didn't bring it up, I didn't bring it up, you brought it up. That means you're changing the topic from what we were talking about.

"You act as if the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it." How? How do I act like the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it?

You said the same thing I did. YOU are acting like the same entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it. See how much sense that makes?

Calling my point irrelevant doesn't magically make it so.

You act as if the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it. They were not. Most of the people who ended slavery were BORN into a system that uses slavery just as you were WELLAFTER it was created. My point is that same high standard of blame must also be applied to you since you directly enjoy an improvement of quality of life as a result of this system of forced labor in the form of cheaper products and services. Unless you are willing to give other slavery resistors of the time the same leeway you are by your own standards condemning yourself just as you condemn those men and women who lived at the time regardless of their stance on or resistance to slavery.

It's a totally irrelevant point! Also, check the definition of fact. You stated an opinion.

OP says: white slave owners weren't so bad cuz they abolished slavery.
I say: before they abolished it, they accepted slavery as legitimate, so no cookie.
You say: You support slavery in the modern day.

Irrelevant to the OP, and my comment! And you put words in my mouth! I said nothing of the guilt of white Americans. I disclaimed praise for white Europeans for abolishing an institution they made possible earlier. The exact same thing you said later in a separate post.

I think you misunderstand. I didn't say you support slavery because if your statements. I was saying it is a FACT that you currently support slavery regardless of this discussion here. My point was if you were to apply such logic of guilt to all white Americans of the time, even those that fought slavery, by your very own metric you are also just as guilty.

Are you kidding me? You just said the same thing I did, which when I said it you took in some warped way as to somehow mean I supported slavery. You're unbelievable!


Wtf gives?

What is the fact? I still don't see it. You said you think white europeans should be thanked for ending slavery and other races should have more blame. Those are opinions. They are still not historical facts. "It is stupid to shame Europeans or White Americans for slavery"  <--- Your exact words. It is an opinion.

Compliments are not racist. The way you generalize and distinguish people based on race is what is racist.

I've said nothing about white privilege. I don't know what you're carrying on about, but you're clearly confusing me with another poster.

I think you are frankly ignorant abut the difference between a standard war and civil war. There are some very fundamental differences.

Oh come on, don't tell me you actually think that, war is all about domination and subjugating other people, that's all it's good for you really are being naive.

I think you have a serious lack of historical knowledge on the subject. If I remember right you aren't even from the US. What makes you such an expert on the subject of the US civil war as a European? There is a reason they call it a CIVIL war, because the people are fighting amongst themselves, not an outside enemy like a stereotypical war where the conquered has their culture destroyed and all the peoples subjugated. The union had a clear upper hand to begin with, there was no chance they would be allowed to secede let alone enslave all the white northerners fighting for the Union. My point is white Americans fought to end slavery too, not just to preserve it.

The problem is there are an awful number of Americans ( I noticed black Europeans definitely don't have this attitude problem, probably because we actually learn about history ) seem to have this attitude of well since some white assholes went around enslaving people it's somehow okay to treat every other white person like shit because they 'may' have been related to them through some distant bloodline almost a century ago. Also, you kidding? A bit of a stretch? It's fucking war, the only reason a side ever makes a concession or decides to a truce is so they can either bide their time and gather strength for another attack or because they know they'd wiped each other out if it happened, that's the honest truth, why do you think truce's never last in Ukraine or between Israel and Palestine? They're out to destroy each other.

"Peace proposals unaccompanied by a sworn covenant indicate a plot" - Sun Tzu

I am not defending the moral authority of slavery... lol
As far as your assertion that the white Northerners would have been enslaved if they lost the war... I think that is a bit of a stretch at best. I am also not arguing that whites can not be enslaved or haven't been before, but the confederates wanted to secede from the North, not enslave it...

If you're claiming that the white Americans who lost wouldn't have been enslaved then you're being pretty racist and/or naive ironically, you're also conveniently forgetting about the Roman Empire and how many white slaves they claimed as do many who talk about slavery. Enslavement is something universally inflicted on human beings and this is historical fact, to claim otherwise is extremely disingenuous and also ignores a good portion of black history as well given that somebody would have needed to traffic those people to America and not look suspicious.

So your saying that the Northern white Americans were at risk of being enslaved if the Confederates had won the war?

Am stating a history fact that I never really thought of before watching Molyneux's video; it is stupid to shame Europeans or White Americans for slavery, if anything I was saying a bit provocatively we should praise them

Saying something positive about white black asian.. is racist? It is utterly stupid
Maybe saying something negative could be seen as racist but you need to think about it a bit more! How saying something positive about Europeans that is an historical fact is racist?

Think your underlying tone of opinion is racist : talking about White privilege is racist and saying the black community still suffer from the slavery that occured before is racist because it is condescendant, put down the community, and is the consequence of thinking they are inferior which is utterly racist; the fact is they suffered from government intervention and hands outs more than any other community in the states and that is why they perform worse

Shut up and praise the white people. What is so hard about that? Why won't you guys stop oppressing me? I didn't ask to be born white!

How is abolishing slavery working out for European and American so far?

Your country is being practically conquered by cock.

Yeah, the other party was fighting for their freedom, the same way our founding fathers fought for our freedom from the British, and the same way we are fighting for our freedom from an oppressive government

What you stated was an opinion. "If it wasn't for Europe there would probably still be slaves in most countries so there deserve less blame than the middle easterners, less blame than the Asians or Americans and especially less blame than the Africans where slavery is still big." That's your exact quote. Note that there is no historical fact there, it is 100% pure opinion. It's your opinion I'm taking issue with, because the underlying tone of your opinion is racist. You can tell it's racist by the fact that you're obsessed with proving whites, as a race, deserve more credit than other races (in your words: Middle Easterners, Asians, and especially Africans) on slavery. Your opinion is implying whites are better because they did something better than the other races you mentioned.

That's what is annoying me so much.

You know a civil war has 2 sides right? Who do you think was fighting the South? Canada? Was the North composed of Chinese people?

In America, white people hated slavery because it undercut white working class people in terms of wages.  You can't beat free labor!  Whites also hated slavery because there were laws requiring people to patrol for runaway slaves even if they didn't want to.  Most of the people on forced patrol were thinking, "Why the hell is it my responsibility to look for runaway slaves?  Shouldn't the damn slave owner be the one doing this?"

White people were the only ones that fought a civil war to try and keep slavery

They were the only ones that hung abolitionists

They didn't start it and they were the sole first ones to abolish it and when it comes to being the world's largest raced based slave trade corporations owners, can't tell you 100% it is not true because don't have the statistics but let's find them and know for sure, my instinct tells me they were not the biggest slavers at any time of history

While I agree Europe probably didn't invent race slavery, they most certainly did house the worlds LARGEST raced based slave trade corporations, and made the most profit from the trade. As far as them deserving less blame because they were some of the early pioneers of abolition of slavery is not exactly valid either. A bad act doesn't erase a good act just as good doesn't erase a bad act.

No I was stating a history fact, why is this history fact annoying you so much?

White Europeans have their problems but when we are talking about slavery, they are the first ones who abolish it when everyone was having slaves

I'm half-irish, so fuck off ^_^

"Our race is the master race"
~White guys everywhere

Yes, congratulations. You've proven white Europeans are the master race. /sarcasm

Race base slavery was obviously not invented by the USA but it wasn't invented by Europe either, slavery in Africa was between different ethnicities.

All regions of the world had slaves, Europe didn't have more than other regions, it had less and there are the first ones who started the movement of abolition and succeeded first then pushed for everyone to abolish slavery and still do; if it wasn't for Europe there would probably still be slaves in most countries so there deserve less blame than than the middle easterners, less blame than the Asians or Americans and especially less blame than the Africans where slavery is still big : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

Pointing out that they were pioneers in the race based slave trade is not "blaming" Europe, simply pointing out it is not an American invention regardless of how the media portrays it. Also doesn't Europe deserve its share of the blame? After all it did practice slavery as well, and certainly profited handsomely from the trade in the Americas.

Slavery in Africa : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

Slavery has existed for thousands of year, it was huge in Africa, the Africans were indeed the biggest slavers of Africans and were the ones who sold Africans to Americans; slavery was big in the middle east and existed in Asia too

The European, more precisely catholics white europeans were the first one to abolish it and push for its global abolition and they succeeded; yet they seem to have the ones who get the shame now!? It's very stupid and giving blame to Europeans or white for slavery is changing history since every culture and all ethnic groups were having slaves and white were the first one to abolish it

By the way, the current problems of the Black community in the USA are due to government programs that are suppose to help them but keep them in poverty and it's due to the fight against marijuana that results in way more negative than positive

Telling me to google a phrase is not an argument or a source. "Race based slavery" existed LONG before the US did. Just because popular media portrays all slavery as Africans held by Americans doesn't mean it was invented in the US. Here is one example of raced based slavery before the US. I am sure there are many more.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_African_Company

Race based slavery. google it

Compelling reason to not go to Catholic school

Not that I am aware of...thats a nice qualifier you added after the fact once you realize you were incorrect, but in order for some group or individual to have invented something they have to be the first to exhibit that practice correct?

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=2788532

Comes up on the first page of google, they had the exact same problems as western countries, it's just there are people like you who choose to ignore that and you could still argue that the way marriage works in those countries is basically the enslavement of women, but then again, I'm pretty much against marriage as it is.

Did Ancient Egyptians own slaves in the 19th century?

You are really REALLY arguing that the US invented raced based slavery? I guess ancient Egypt doesn't count...

What other country had race based slavery where they treated the workers like cattle?

So the fact that there are more African Americans engaged in force labor than ever in US history isn't an issue to you?
Lets look at the definition of slavery and see if forced prison labor falls under this definition:

Slavery-
1 :  drudgery, toil  -check
2 :  submission to a dominating influence  - check
3
a :  the state of a person who is a chattel of another   - check
b :  the practice of slaveholding        -check                 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slavery

I know this may be a completely shocking concept to you but not everyone that goes to prison is a criminal. Additionally most of the "criminals" are there for nonviolent drug possession. I guess the fact that predominantly minorities fill the prison system is just a coincidence right?  Additionally even if you don't give a shit about these "criminals" it still effects you, because when they don't have to pay a prisoner to work, that means more jobs disappear from the available occupations. Additionally it drives the wages of the rest of the existing jobs down. Forced prison labor is equivalent to slavery, and by that metric the US has more slaves than ever in history, and it is quite profitable for those exploiting it.

First of all this was not an attack but simply applying the same standards to you, that you casually apply to an entire race of people (gee that's not at all racist). White people didn't invent slavery, additionally even if you buy this disingenuous presumption by no means did the same people who brought the system into use, end it. People were born into the system, realized its flaws, had the power to change the system, and changed it accordingly. Just the same way you were born into a system that uses forced labor and remain ignorant of it while criticizing an entire race of people for the same injustice. As far as slavery in the "western world", I think you will find if you bother to look that slavery is STILL a global phenomenon, not just reserved for the west. A right doesn't erase a wrong and a wrong doesn't erase a right. Millions of people gave their lives to see that slavery was ended, and at great economic cost. Discounting that is quite arrogant and an affront to the people who actually struggled to end slavery.

As far as products using forced labor in the US, you are quite incorrect. Products produced with forced captive labor are sold and manufactured all over the US. Here is an abridged list of corporations that profit directly from forced labor:

BANKS: American General Financial Group, American Express Company, Bank of America, Community Financial Services Corporation, Credit Card Coalition, Credit Union National Association, Inc., Fidelity Inestments, Harris Trust & Savings Bank, Household International, LaSalle National Bank, J.P. Morgan & Company, Non-Bank Funds Transmitters Group

ENERGY PRODUCERS/OIL: American Petroleum Institute, Amoco Corporation, ARCO, BP America, Inc., Caltex Petroleum, Chevron Corporation, ExxonMobil Corporation, Mobil Oil Corporation, Phillips Petroleum Company.

ENERGY PRODUCERS/UTILITIES: American Electric Power Association, American Gas Association, Center for Energy and Economic Development, Commonwealth Edison Company, Consolidated Edison Company of New York, Inc., Edison Electric Institute, Independent Power Producers of New York, Koch Industries, Inc., Mid-American Energy Company, Natural Gas Supply Association, PG&E Corporation/PG&E National Energy Group, U.S. Generating Company.

INSURANCE: Alliance of American Insurers, Allstate Insurance Company, American Council of Life Insurance, American Insurance Association, Blue Cross and Blue Shield Corporation, Coalition for Asbestos Justice, (This organization was formed in October 2000 to explore new judicial approaches to asbestos litigation." Its members include ACE-USA, Chubb & Son, CNA service mark companies, Fireman's Fund Insurance Company, Hartford Financial Services Group, Inc., Kemper Insurance Companies, Liberty Mutual Insurance Group, and St. Paul Fire and Marine Insurance Company. Counsel to the coalition is Victor E. Schwartz of the law firm of Crowell & Moring in Washington, D.C., a longtime ALEC ally.)
Fortis Health, GEICO, Golden Rule Insurance Company, Guarantee Trust Life Insurance, MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company, National Association of Independent Insurers, Nationwide Insurance/National Financial, State Farm Insurance Companies, Wausau Insurance Companies, Zurich Insurance.

PHARMACEUTICALS: Abbott Laboratories, Aventis Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Bayer Corporation, Eli Lilly & Company, GlaxoSmithKline, Glaxo Wellcome, Inc., Hoffman-LaRoche, Inc., Merck & Company, Inc., Pfizer, Inc., Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of
America (PhRMA), Pharmacia Corporation, Rhone-Poulenc Rorer, Inc., Schering-Plough Corporation, Smith, Kline & French, WYETH, a division of American Home Products Corporation.

MANUFACTURING:American Plastics Council, Archer Daniels Midland Corporation, AutoZone, Inc. (aftermarket automotive parts), Cargill, Inc., Caterpillar, Inc., Chlorine Chemistry Council, Deere & Company, Fruit of the Loom, Grocery Manufacturers of America, Inland Steel Industries, Inc., International Game Technology, International Paper, Johnson & Johnson, Keystone Automotive Industries, Motorola, Inc., Procter & Gamble, Sara Lee Corporation.

TELECOMMUNICATIONS: AT&T, Ameritech, BellSouth Telecommunications, Inc., GTE Corporation, MCI, National Cable and Telecommunications Association, SBC Communications, Inc., Sprint, UST Public Affairs, Inc., Verizon Communications, Inc.

TRANSPORTATION: Air Transport Association of America, American Trucking Association, The Boeing Company, United Airlines, United Parcel Service (UPS).

OTHER U.S. COMPANIES: Amway Corporation, Cabot Sedgewick, Cendant Corporation, Corrections Corporation of America, Dresser Industries, Federated Department Stores, International Gold Corporation, Mary Kay Cosmetics, Microsoft Corporation, Newmont Mining Corporation, Quaker Oats, Sears, Roebuck & Company, Service Corporation International, Taxpayers Network, Inc., Turner Construction, Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.

ORGANIZATIONS/ASSOCIATIONS: Adolph Coors Foundation, Ameritech Foundation, Bell & Howell Foundation, Carthage Foundation, Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation, ELW Foundation, Grocery Manufacturers of America, Heartland Institute of Chicago, The Heritage Foundation, Iowans for Tax Relief, Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation of Milwaukee, National Pork Producers Association, National Rifle Association, Olin Foundation, Roe Foundation, Scaiffe Foundation, Shell Oil Company Foundation, Smith Richardson Foundation, Steel Recycling Institute, Tax Education Support Organization, Texas Educational Foundation, UPS Foundation.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/14/928611/-INSOURCING-Identifying-businesses-involved-in-prison-labor-or-supporting-those-who-are
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/prison-labor_n_2272036.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-prison-industry-in-the-united-states-big-business-or-a-new-form-of-slavery/8289
http://teamsternation.blogspot.com/2013/05/corporations-using-prison-labor-to-grab.html
http://www.alternet.org/story/151732/21st-century_slaves%3A_how_corporations_exploit_prison_labor

White people were the first to start race based slavery, and America was the only nation that fought a civil war over it.

The people that got rid of slavery were not the same ones that started it.  And there is no evidence that whites started slavery.  Slavery was a global phenomenon.  White people did not march into Africa to capture slaves unless they had a death wish.  Blacks captured black slaves and sold them to people of all color including other blacks and Arabs.  The Mid East slave trade was 100 times more brutal than the American slave trade.  If you were a slave captured in Africa you hoped you were going west to work on a farm and not east to be castrated and then die in a war.

First, what logic can be applied to me? OP said we should praise white Europeans for abolishing slavery, and I said no, you can't claim credit for eventually getting rid of an evil you started. Then you come along and say "the same logic can be applied to you, you support slavery." You're not responding to anything I said with your attack. The only thing I said was white people don't get credit for abolishing slavery after they ruined so many lives with it.

Second, your attack is a lot of unsubstantiated garbage. Please find common products sold in the US that are made "literally with modern slave labor." Be specific, the fact that clothes come from a country that is known to use slave labor is not evidence it was produced with slave labor. Further, clothes is a category, not a specific product. You will quickly see that your over-generalization breaks down when you get specific, because if there were products known to be created with forced labor, they wouldn't be for sale in the US for the public and political outrage, not to mention the damage it would do any US company to be associated with actual forced labor.

And to reiterate your point, we're not talking about sweat shops, we're talking about a product made with forced servitude of a human being without recompense for the profit of a corporation, sold in the US and that I might reasonably buy, since you're so adamant that I'm supporting slavery in the modern age, which again was an attack you just lobbed out of nowhere, because it was not in response to anything I said.

And finally, if we just accept your charge at face value, do you realize that the argument that developed nations still indirectly support slavery in the developing world strengthens my point that there's nothing prideful about the western world's track record on slavery?

Praising white people for ending slavery is like praising white people for freeing the scribes from copying books (coincidentally around the time the printing press came about).

Slavery in its previous form would have ended because of the technology that was able to overcome the need for it.

But there is still slavery, just in a different form. People with power still use that power to control those without it.

I'm not talking about sweat shops. I am talking about literal slavery. Did you know more African American males are in forced servitude now than ever before in US history?

Actually you are right about the liberal stuff .
You know since Cyrus the Great back in the 6th century BC nobody else really did anything to abolish slavery. Then the dreaded evil white man come along and just abolished it. ...and they had the power and the will to force this abolishment across the globe. Not the indians the arabs or your fellow black bros in Africa, but that fckin' white man. If we didn't do that, then you guys would be still listed in the commodities section in some arab or african countries. I'd encourage you to learn a bit of history.

I think we all need to get rid of books and schools because they have a liberal bias, and instead watch more Stefan Molyneux videos. If only more people did this, they would understand white people for the heroes they are

Anarcho-syndicalism basically just put the words anarcho and capitalist together . Actually a good idea. As I came from a former so called "communist" country I think that the two main reasons of the fall of the soviet type communism were: ignoring the market, and attempting to control every segment of the society.

P2P economy  is an other thing where anarchism and capitalism comes together... and this is the point where BTC or other cryptos can be the best way to completely eliminate the last bastions of state control.

It is good for the poor country to have companies that invest money in the country and employ people that would have done a worse job instead and can now better support their family

I am pretty sure the same logic can be applied to you...
What is stopping you from boycotting goods produced literally with modern slave labor in stead of buying items that pay people a decent living wage? Chances are you buy the cheapest product like most people, and because it is socially acceptable, you too support modern slavery. Now if someone might not be completely aware of this dynamic, this individual changing their behavior in favor of support of human rights is now suddenly not commendable because they once enjoyed a higher standard of living at the expense of others? I argue that you yourself are doing the very same thing right now, only with a lot less awareness of how your habits cause human suffering. You should probably check your judgment lest ye be judged. IMO some one doing wrong, admitting it, and changing their behavior shows a lot more strength than the person that pretends they aren't perpetrators (you).

It is not only Europeans who had slaves but every culture and every region of the world; they didn't start it and the European are the first ones that abolished it and pushed for the abolition in other regions of the world, they are still the ones who fight the most against the horror of slavery

This is a better Stefan Molyneux video regarding slavery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31E1gHowYcA&src_vid=auQJMLWx6og&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_4223755883

This one goes into more detail and busts a number of myths when it comes to slavery.

So you're advancing the idea that because some people who used to own slaves eventually voted to abolish it, those people should be commended even though they first failed to reject slavery as evil when they had the first opportunity, thereby tolerating and partaking in an institution that destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives?

I'm not buying it.

Bitcoin is a symbol of voluntaryism, no wonder it's so rampant with pedophilia, murder for hire, and mass fraud schemes.

You're on a forum dedicated to voluntary capitalism and the ideals of voluntary capitalism, not to mention that taking part in Bitcoin is entirely voluntary and if you don't like Bitcoin there are hundreds of alternative available, one thing the people against. In regards to classes, yes that's just basically a stereotype, people don't fit neatly into categories like that and nothing is ever black and white which is why in regards to these stupid two sided conflicts stay the hell out of them. This is also a reason why democratic systems are failing so badly, the two parties think they can win by categorising people and organising their speeches so that they gain the most votes but in reality because they think that way they are alienating so many people, the same goes for what you did just then, people can't be categorised like that especially when you're wrong, it pisses people off.

The Communists think I'm a Capitalist and the Capitalists think I'm a Communist 

Thank you for showing me the light Boumalo.

White people are truly Gods. We need to praise the white people and worship them for slavery.

As a result, here is a prayer I have written:

Oh Lord,
Please bless the White people
And the colored people too, sometimes, if they're good and have democracy

The State is the one which established racist laws, educating children in state schools about the superiority of the White and it even subsidised the slaves in the USA by bringing them with tax money

In a free society some crazy racist may have businesses that don't accept some workers based on gender or race but they would be at a disadvantage compared to other businesses and would lose part of their clientele and most importantly it would be extremely rare if not non existant

Think people saying that so called "African Americans" (which I always found a bit of a racist term because they are not African, they are American) are under performing economically and socially in the USA because they have been slaves is extremely racist and undermining for the community, they are under performing because they have been the center of attention of the State subsidies that keep people poor

Well I dont think the christian anarchists would agree to that. 


When it comes to the middle class I get a bit marxist. There is only two classes and this is based on the position of the person in relation to the means of production. Either you work or you live on someone else's work. This is of course a bit crude and there is a broad spectrum of people being grouped together. But in the perspective of class strugle the middle class is only nonsense.


This is exactly the point. You cant have both capitalism and voluntary freedom. Capitalism can never be viewed as volontary in the perspective of the worker. If you dont sell your labour, and to an unfair price seeing that the system relies on suplus value, you cant reproduce your living standard.

So capitalism only means freedom for the owning class, and selective freedom for a minority is not something anarchist should accept.


Sorry if I butchered your text, had to try multiple quotes as I'm new to the forum and bad at posting 

yeah you see that's where I end up disagreeing, especially considering I was born in a middle class family and this kind of thing is exactly what I was talking about earlier, also, I think Bitcoin is a perfectly reasonable solution to our current economic problems, Anarchism is about being against god and government, so yes, capitalists and others can be Anarchists as well.

So long as everything is voluntary and nobody is forced to do anything or support somebody I couldn't give a fuck what system people come up with.

Why bother with east and west when it's already divided in two opossing classes. Have we switched places on this topic? 

Anarchist economics are an interesting topic, I wouldn't be happy with either currency or bartering. If you are interested in this subject I think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_economics is a good introduction, especially the experiments during the spanish revolution.

Not to be harsh but I would never put the words anarcho and capitalist together, how this has happened is beyond me. Voluntarism I guess is a part of this tradition?

I you like a real bloody sect of anarchism I have always liked the russian nihilists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilist_movement 

I sympathise with the Commies and Marxists, not on everything because I like capitalism ( Bartering for things is a pain in the arse that's why money was invented ) but I'm pretty sure most Anarchists will agree that the current system is ridiculous and two party governments are a joke, pretty soon if we're not careful we're going to see the entire world divided up into East and West and if you try to declare yourselves neutral you'll inevitably be hunted down or persecuted for it.

Been struggling for awhile now to define what kind of Anarchist I am and I at first thought I was an individualist then I discovered several more bloody sects of Anarchism so I guess I'll have to settle with voluntarist because I don't really consider myself that much of a capitalist either even though I do like the free market.

lol thats really funny, I was about to quote the same text before. 

Yes I fully agree not to side with anyone else but the interests of the working class. But that's not sitting on the sidelines! Thats just keeping on with the same everyday struggle that all anarchists are involved in. 

Happy to see a libcom text on here and I think we have a closer view on things then I first thought.

Praise the white people! They are your lord!

Facts:

White people abolished slavery!
White people ended the civil war that so many other countries started over slavery!
White people ended racism!
White people have never occupied foreign nations as undocumented immigrants!

You'd be surprised, I found an Anarchist group in the Ukraine that's doing exactly that from what I can see, they call themselves the Autonomous Workers Union and these are Anarcho-Communists essentially.

https://libcom.org/news/eastern-ukraine-conflict-against-regime-kiev-junta-east-autonomous-workers-union-17052014

It's not necessarily against the ideas of an Anarchist to stay out of a conflict, it particularly depends on which sect you're talking about because there are so many. Basically my reasoning is this, when you have two sides clashing with each other, who's agenda's are either not clear or are exactly the same what's the point in getting involved and taking sides with those kind of morons? Much better and more productive I say to just stay out of it and help out anyone who wants to do the same until they either make the mistake of attacking you or wear themselves out.

But if you want to blindly side with untrustworthy people who will turn on you the second they win be my guest

well I cant say that I agree with you but I think I understand what you mean. Thx for taking the time to explain. 

The only question I'm left with is how this can be the view of an anarchist?

I would think that most strains of anarchist thinking takes quite a harsh and one sided view on alot of things. And view themselves as having alot of mortal enemies for that matter. And putting oneself outside the struggle to let the two sides kill each other seems to go against most of the ideas that I see as anarchist, for example that no one is free before all are free.

I just cant seem to combine the two things.

Okay, let me put it this way, you know how Republicans and Democrats are mortal enemies right? The kind of stupidity I'm seeing where it's all about whites vs blacks and only one side can be correct is the exact same mentality and if you agree or disagree with one side you're automatically labelled as one or the other, so if I disagree with something a black guy is saying about whites I'm automatically a racist, if I disagree with something a white guy is saying about blacks well I'm basically a sympathiser aren't I?

This same stupidity goes across all the political arguments, Ukraine, Palestine/Israel ( Jon Stewart actually did a hilarious piece on this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrlUzkd8Z8g ), so I think any of us who are capable of being sane and having a rational discussion about such things should just let the two sides kill each other over their stupidity and live our lives peacefully.

hm, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Care to explain how this relates to you being an anarchist?

It's not just that, now anyone who mentions anything to do with race is automatically a racist, it's just fucking stupid lol I don't accept racism or slavery, but I also don't accept stupidity either.

ok.

Just seemed strange to accept any form of slavery or racism as an anarchist, but I can understand not wanting to get involved in internet keyboard battles. 

When it gets physical and goes beyond people making moronic comments to each other and getting offended by it let me know and I'll happily defend anyone in my area from it.

you are an anarchist so you dont have to care about slavery or racism? 

It's times like this I'm glad I chose to be an Anarchist and not give a fuck about any of this, am I the only one who feels the same? Or is this thread going to degenerate into a back and forth of race bashing like every other thread about race? People who go on about race and racism on either end of it as if it matters are a bunch of irrational halfwits.

slavery should have been abolished in this earth, only hemisphere where all men should live free, but that we see in electronic media and print media slavery still occurs, due to the existence of the war, many children and women who are victims, so it should slavery should be abolished, let's hope the government all over the country want to hear the complaints of the slaves that exist in other countries ... 

You probably thought I lost it but you will understand what I mean if you watch the end of the Stefan Molyneux's video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auQJMLWx6og&list=UUC3L8QaxqEGUiBC252GHy3w

Molyneux is very direct but after you are shocked by what he is saying you usually start thinking that what he is saying make a lot of sense; in this video, he is talking about the fact that slavery was present in every culture and most countries for thousands of years : Africa, Americas, Middle East, Asia and Europe until Europeans fought to abolish it, yet we still hear that the White Europeans were the biggest bad guys concerning slavery and should feel ashamed when they should be praised if anything