Topic: THERE IS NO TAX and there NEVER be any Tax on Bitcoin (Read 5573 times)

gee i wonder if the IRS has ever come up with a case of people hiding their income from the tax man before

probably not

this is probably the first time it's ever happened

that is why all those freeman of the land magic words keep working so well

They also tag (Assess taxes) you when you mine; see the IRS ruling!

My $.02.

I bet they tag you when you buy (bc with fiat) and flag you when you sell (bc for fiat)

And there are ways to do just that.

My $.02.

Yes it is very nice to keep bitcoin without paying taxes.

no one likes to pay taxes.
so if you can choose to pay or not then there would be a lot problems

People should be able to choose to pay or not to pay taxes but if you don't pay taxes don't except to use any of the services taxes pay for.

tax should be voluntary anyways ...

A ruling that is enforced with guns is for all practical purposes a law.
This is not something that is voluntary, that would make it a ruling for practically purposes.

Bitcoin it is a currency, but not under US law since the IRS ruling destroys fungibility and then the IRS labels it property.
Bitcoin is being hurt very bad by this ruling in the USA and the current price dip reflect that.

True! No one can predict what is gonna happen in future - some people tell that Bitcoin is no longer going to live, some people tell that it is going to be worldwide currency that would be easy to change to USD!
Now the government describes Bticoin as property that made  a lot of people be confused

I'm not sure that there will never be any tax on Bitcoin. No one knows what will happen next year

I find this thread to be amusing for obvious reason and even and if you ask me even more interesting thoughts and views will come on this topic.  The OP is ahead thier time on this one I guess.

Ex Post Facto does not apply here.

The IRS ruling is just that; a ruling, not a law.

Thanks for reading!

My $.02.

Laws have changed for practical purposes, mid 2013 Fincen, and recently the IRS.

Lets choose the year 2009, there is absolutely no word on any law book in regards to Bitcoin.

As far as being defined as property by the IRS in 2014 while in 2009, unless you had a crystal ball it was impossible to predict it was going to be defined as properly, many other countries have let it be free, or defined as a currency, or some as commodity. After all Bitcoin is a string of numbers. The law nowhere says a number is property.

Also any retroactive law is illegal.

A guidance is a law for practical purposes, since it is enforced with guns, a true guidance is a voluntary action with no reprisals.

Just like when central banks release their so called guidance, the price of Bitcoin goes down a little, if it was only guidance and nothing else  business in China would be normal and would not have an impact on the value of Bitcoin, of course it is not guidance its law, look at the price of Bitcoin it took a huge dive due to this so called guidances.

If you where in 2009, exchanges operated anonymously, no mention of the word tax by any authority, no restrictions on exchanges,  bitcoin by mostly everyone was considered a currency not a commodity, laws have changed for all practical purposes.

If someone creates a currency (Satoshi) why on earth would you have a motive to believe it was not a currency, unless of course it was announce not to be a currency by someone in power to dictate laws, which it did happen just recently by the IRS, and since laws can not be retroactively, I would think most bitcoiners would agree that legally before the official guidance bitcoin was a currency and it is still a currency in most of the world.

Also Fincen earlier had ruled that bitcoin was money, since anyone exchanging bitcoins for us dollars had to get a permit as an MSB "Money Service Bossiness" not "Property Service Business", so Finces says its money, the IRS its property, and lets wait I am sure some other government agency will declare it to be something else its a matter of time, they all want to get a piece of the pie.

So in brief the law is new, and any good lawyer can enforce that is not applied retroactively since all retroactive laws are known to be illegal.

If they could apply laws retroactively they may want to tax my "cumpa coin", they may as well try to tax us before we were born after all the law is the law.

I found something: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvqkQvOWgeo

What's the law with regards to barter economy. If I give you apples and you give me oranges, who pays what tax?

Replace apples with BTC but keep oranges.

Mining is not a services to the BTC network/community, not in any other way than the production line of LCD screens is a service to the community of TV watchers. You don't pay tax on tvs while they are in production line or on the shelf, until they are exchanged for currency.

Moreover, say you mine solo for a year and then the block is orphaned. You can't prove the loss because that block did not make it to the blockchain.

In summary, the IRS ruling is archaic and the people behind it should be fired and replaced with modern day people.

You can tax cash flow.

Well government might try to tax bitcoin but that would be rather hard to execute.

"13 terrorist European bloodlines" eeee

Bitcoin is as (legally) free now as it was in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012.  No laws have changed.  The IRS issued guidance on its interpretation of the existing laws that also applied in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012.  

Paying the inflation tax is wrong, the dollar has lost about 99% of its value in 100 years, that makes the dollar useless for saving.

currencies like anything should be able to compete in the open market against each other, the problem is that since the dollar is inferior to bitcoin in many ways, there is a need by the gov/fed (private but related to gov) to make a different set of rules for digital currencies.

Do you keep track of every expense or gain with the dollar? of course not, why should it be different with bitcoin.

An inflationary currency supports wars and thats wrong, why should bitcoin users have to pay the war tax.

Double taxing is wrong, when does the tax stop.

Lets say you get paid in dollars and pay your taxes, and then buy bitcoin, those bitcoins have already been taxed, lets say the dollar collapses and looses purchasing power, why should bitcoin users pay additional taxes to subside the dollar.

It is true that taxes are needed, but not double taxing, and cripple small business and users.

For first time in history people get to enjoy the power of taking the duties of a bank by managing their own currency, and now a different set of rules is applied retroactive against bitcoin, applying any law retroactive should in itself be illegal since no one has a Cristal ball to predict the future, people should be responsible for current laws not future laws being applied in the past.
 

Let bitcoin be free, is was free for many years 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, let the freedom continue.

If the dollar can not compete against bitcoin, it is up to the feds to improve the dollar, and not the IRS to cripple bitcoin.

I would argue that an equal set of laws and rules where the word dollar and bitcoin could be legally interchanged would be fair anything else is corrupt.

Bitcoin is a financial revolution, let this revolution continue its course.

I don't think paying tax is a bad idea or concept, it pays for hospital, police etc and it is about sharing. So i am not with you on that.

I'll go by Christ and give Benjamins to the 13 evil bloodlines and bitcoins to bitcoin people

For non Christian people: Jesus Christ was asked by the worshipers of money in control of the Jewish society of the time, to test him if his loyalty is to the Jewish people who do not believe in paganism whether the Jews should or should not pay tax to Cesar. He looked at the coin with the face of Cesar on it and told them give to Cesar what belong to Cesar and give to God what belongs to God (meaning acts of kindness to others).

First i would not trade BTC for USD, not for a billion USD. There will always be more billions of that, who will give me back that once off BTC?

Second there is a sheer stupidity in paying tax by miners at the running rate when the BTC was mined.

Say I'm a carpenter, how stupid is that when I make a new desk i pay tax on its street value before I even sell it?

PS: The 13 bloodlines of evil are afraid of revolutions.

Hypothetically speaking, if fiat currency was re-directed to the BTC network, and thusly never reconverted, the idea of taxation becomes nil.  Until that possibility arises, tax that a$$.  (But the idea makes me smile.)

There's a central problem with this argument: the U.S. government taxes your income, not your money. That income doesn't have to be in the form on cash or cash equivalents: you could receive a car as a gift from someone and still have to pay tax on the value of the car.

Whether or not Bitcoin is considered money in the U.S. wouldn't really matter to the IRS, I would think. Not saying I agree with it, of course, but I would be careful about the tax treatment of your Bitcoins.

Of course, it's also like cash income: it's very hard for the IRS to prove you earned any.

EDIT: The IRS also has a very wide definition of "income", as evidenced by the gift example above.

Excuse me, aren't thete any taxes yet? I was thinking there's taxes for transactions

Uhmm I thought the OP was supposedly to be sarcastic, at the same time he made a point with his statement. Wasn't he?  

how can anybody be sure that there won't be any taxes on bitcoins? If you look though the history of tax there were a lot of even weird taxes and so it's just the question of time how the government is going to get it's piece of pie from BTC

+1

That's just insane

Pretty sure they'll take control of the exchange then add a tax.
Then we'll have to use shady exchanges and there will be a lots of drama.

Im pretty sure that if you buy anything with bitcoin right now at overstock or tigerdirect they have to pay a sales tax on it

Death and Taxes

What taxes will Mt. Gox owe now that they lost all their profits and money. Does Gox have any money to pay taxes?

Just feel like adding a tech joke
Cops Freeze~~~!
Step away from the computer don't you DARE PRESS THAT SEND Button
Bitcoin sweatdrop scene lol
 

Judge freezes all of MtGox’s US assets, lets class-action suit continue
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/03/judge-freezes-all-of-mtgoxs-us-assets-lets-class-action-suit-continue/

Taxes will occur on the exchanges themselves merchants will pay the taxes on transactions
Bitcoin taxes will be paid on the conversion but not the acquirement of them
Except for those who use large scale mining

Why are you so sure that businesses that accept Bitcoin never have to pay any Tax on it?

What the hell are taxes?

I put tax on my teachers chair once... She screamed when she sat down.

In a way there is a tax since every transaction takes a little bit of money in turn for sending the funds through.

but what would be the point of a centralised decentralised currency? It's pointless.

-
I'm a straight-up Anarcho-Capitalist. Most people think my views are nutty. But this seems absolutely fugging insane bonkers to me:

The most likely taxes are going to occur at the exchanges and with merchants.

They tax when you convert Bitcoin into usd though but Bitcoin itself can't be taxed.

I am not sure there will never be any tax on Bitcoin cause no one can be 100% sure what will happen in future.

Tax offices deal in their sovereign fiat - they won't have bitcoin wallets, or litecoin wallets, or dogecoin wallets - funny as that might be

Correct, but what would be the point of a centralised decentralised currency? It's pointless.

Here is how Bitcoin could be taxed:

The tax office gives a sheet of paper to every merchant that uses Bitcoin and asks them to write down the amount of Bitcoins they received. Then the tax office decides how much taxes they should pay and asks them to transfer the appropriate amount to the Bitcoin address of the tax office.

As far as first posts go this is among one of the best haha.


I doubt there will be taxes on cryptos as this would be very hard to implement, so they'll just tax when it's converted to cash.

I fully agree

That's the best you could do for your first post? Can't wait to ignore your future posts.

bitcoin is literally urinating all over your face right now

this cryptocurrency is the honey badger of pissing on your retard face

it does not give a fuck, and your face is DRENCHED

That's not true at all.  Bitcoin itself (the protocol) doesn't have any preconceptions about governments at all.  That's all from some of the people using it.  Your ideals != everyone else's ideals. 

Why would anybody choose to use it? The whole point of crypto is to get away from the government.

lol. Western governments have been printing more and more money, running up massive debts the citizens will never be able to pay back. Has this lead to full employment? Nope.

I thought government can print at will, and most govt programs are funded that way. taxes help prop up the gov money. Correct me if I'm wrong.

IIRC Keynesian economists do suggest that the govt should keep on printing money and use it to fund programs finally leading to full employment.

Nothing stops the gov from making a crypto currency of their own, or banning the sales of BitCoin to US residents (USD--> BTC)

Yeah! Fuck Government! I don't want my bin collected weekly, or my street lit at night! I don't want a clean maintained park to give my dog a safe run in, flood defences, the roads gritting when its icey, schools, or any of that useless shit!

yeah good idea dang government with all their taxes

This is how they're treating it in the UK and I like it this way as I'll just keep my coins as they are and spend them when I can.

there should never be tax on cryptocurrencies that would be very unfair

There is no Tax and there never be any Tax on Bitcoin. PERIOD.

One of Bitcoin famous rule is this:
No One can Tax Bitcoin

-------------------------------------------------

Here's the only way of how Bitcoin can be tax.

I'm sure you know by now that the 13 terrorist European bloodlines of the Devil worshipers cult Illuminati created the Federal Reserve (central banks) so that they can print the scam U.S. currency, they setup the U.S. government (USA) as a scam country to help them scam billions of people world wide. They use the scam U.S currency to create cheap slaves labor world wide.

You will need to pay a tax, when you exchange your Bitcoin for U.S. currency or any other paper currencies in other countries.
In other words, the tax you pay is not from Bitcoin, but from using their paper currency. The Illuminati reserves the right to collect their tax on their paper currency.

Businesses that accept Bitcoin never have to pay any Tax on it.
Businesses that accept U.S. dollars must pay a tax to the 13 terrorist European bloodlines of the Devil worshipers cult Illuminati.

If the Devil worshipers cult Illuminati send an IRS agent to your business to collect tax on Bitcoin, you have the right to shoot him/her in the face and burn his/her body because Illuminati members are now labeled as terrorist cells in America. That idiot IRS agent will most likely be labeled as "M.I.A." or "abducted by aliens".

By the way, the terrorist organization Illuminati are currently house training their IRS agents to tax the USD. Or, their agents are subject to be executed immediately.

Learn more about the ongoing Civil War in America here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ongoing-civil-war-in-usa-corporation-179616

-------------------------------------------------




Reply with +1 to keep this thread at top